Edit: This is still Mr.X, I'm posting under our Nexus account becuase I posted from work
This probably isn't the kind of thing you want to hear, but do you mind if i play you on wifi, even if its just once or twice? I seem to get pwn'd alot online, and being able to watch/understand everything that you're doing first hand would help alot. Plus, you might be able to tell me why I'm so bad :-)
Anyway, the other day I was brawling with a camping link, and I couldn't get anywhere near him. His arrow spam>pikmin spam, its faster, and his arrows don't die after taking a couple hits, forcing him to pluck new ones. The bombs also kept me from coming at him from the air to a certain degree, and once I did get close to him his jab knocked me away. Any adivce?
Sure, go to allisbrawl and check the chatroom there. I play under the name TeamNexus to promote my tourney hosting business that my gf and I started (
www.nexgaming.net). We're hosting a Smash tourney on the 26 in Socal for those who are interested =D.
I dunno about the other Oli players here, but I believe Link has been greatly underestimated, at least in this match up. Everytime i play a link player they suprise me with how clsoe the matches end up being. I actually fear Link more than Toon Link, but that may just be me.
Unlike some matchups, I believe that Oli is strongest against Link when he's close. Link's strengths are by far when he's far away from his opponent, since he has three different projectiles that he can use, all with different properties. Once you get close, shield-grabbing is really effective because a lot of Link's moves have some lag to them. Also, remember to hold the shield when he f-smashes you because a lot of smart link and young link players lag the second part of the smash attack as long as they can to bait you to put your shield down. Once you get close, your smashes outprioritize and outrange his, and with a few mindgames it's pretty easy to send him flying.
Approaching any character with lots of projectiles (Link, toon link, and rob are good examples) can be a real pain. Make it your goal to learn your opponents favorite ways to fire at you; all players have certain moves and ways to use them that they prefer. Really pay attention to what the Link likes to do. Does he like to short-hop boomerang or throw in place? Does he jump when he shoots arrows? Does he come at you with his bomb and use it to pressure you and then use follow-up smashes after the bomb hits you or does he just throw them from far away and hope they rack up damage?
Usually projectiles serve two main purposes (this is true for us Olimar players as well). They are used to either:
1. Rack up the percent on your opponent or
2. To distract the opponent to open up a window of opportunity when they make a mistake.
I find that players that are projectile spamming for 2 are a lot more deadly than campers who just want percent. If the Link is just spamming in place, then if all else fails just block the projectile and roll to him right after.
Peeup: Do you happen to know who the link is? I'll play you on wifi too, because you live close to me. If you see me at a tournament I can possibly help you too.
Mr. X: I know why i'm bad, I need help fixing it. Any tips on how to eliminate bad habits? Also, I need tips on how to be the one controlling the pace of the match, because I noticed that unless I'm playing against a person that I know well, if they're slow, I'm slow, and if they're fast, I'm fast...
Also looking for specific matchup help vs. Metaknight, Marth, Ike, Ice Climbers.
The only real strategy I have for eliminating bad habits is to think more when you play. Most people who play a lot after awhile get into a zone where their mind is on autopilot--they just do what they always do. To change a habit, you have to consciously think about why you're doing what you're doing, read in threads like these or come up with your own theories of how to beat different strategies, and then experiment with them. The top players are always thinking a lot harder than the players who aren't winning because it helps them to read their opponent AND to respond to them.
I think that everyone can agree that people are always complaining about this move or that strategy on these boards. But if you notice, you usually don't see the TOP people complaining about the mechanics of the game much at all. This is because when they see a "broken" move//strategy, instead of doing the knee-jerk reaction of johning and blaming the game, they are either looking for counter to it or accepting it and moving on. You only see the scrubs complaining and blaming character matchups or certain moves when they lose; if you want to improve you've gotta admit that you're doing something wrong, and then you've gotta think of answers to what you can do to win.
As far as controlling the pace of the match goes, every match has its own pace. Don't feel pressuerd to always have to be moving quickly or doing 10 things at once. There are elite players out there that play every kind of way you can imagine. For example, Hugs is a GREAT slow-paced player. He rarely moves for no reason, and in many matches if you watch he just stands there, watches what you're doing without even moving, then hits you in the window of lag you created for yourself. If your style is more mind-gamey and less spammy then do be it. If your style is to pressure pressure pressure and take advantage of openings, then throw pikmin away and do that.
I've found that for me being hyper-aggressive and pressuring with pikmin works better, but even I have found that some matchups this DOESN'T work. One example is against Rob. Once I played a good Rob player and everytime I approached I as met with a gyro, a backair, and a lazerbeam to the face. After losing a stock in toruney to this, I decided to camp for a bit and wait for him to come to me. To my suprise, he just kept camping, and I got something like 90-100% on him WITHOUT TOUCHING HIM ONCE. If you have to switch up your game to deal with someone effetively than so be it. There's no real quota for the speed or aggressiveness you have to play in a match.
The problem I have with IC is that nana can knock people out of grabs, thus destroying a strong suit in Olimar's gameplay.
Don't grab the Ice-Climbers when they're together.
Lemme repeat that: DON'T GRAB IF THEY'RE TOGETHER.
Any ice-climber who's been playing them even since Melee knows that Nana can hit you out of a grab. And good players will grab you back, and put you a stock behind for your folly.
You need to play against Ice-climbers differently than almost any other character. One grab in the hands of a good player is death for you no matter what you do, so unfortunately the popular phrase "don't get grabbed" still stands true for these guys.
Instead of grabbing, pikmin throw, f-smash, and rolling downsmashes work well. I've found that EVERY ice-climber I've played has been over-eager for the grab, their whole game is based around getting that grab in, and for good reason. Anticipate that they, like us Olimar players, always have the grab in the back of their mind. Once you assume that everything they do is based around getting you in their hands, the matchup becomes a lot easier.
Also, keep in mind that a nice little trick Ice-Climber players like to do is to have desync them, have Nana do her down-B (the freeze move in front), and then have Popo run and grab you while you're stunned. Can't tell you how many times I fell for that in Melee and a couple of times in Brawl before I learned my lesson there.
thanks for the advise Mr. X it seems that I wasn't doing anything wrong I just wasn't patient enough because the MK wouldn't stop spamming B even though he only got a few hits in but oh well.
I have a question about Lucario. The last tournament I went to he just dodge rolled. everytime I rolled he rolled and I couldn't seem to get him with any attack and he just waited until I smashed and grabbed me. it was just frustrating.
I'm kinda frustrated something so lame actually kept me from getting away. I tried running instead of shield rolling but he just Forward B'd me.
I had little problem with him in the air and completely destroyed him when he was being a dodge *****. but lost when it was FD.
any help would be nice but am I imagining it or does Lucario have THE best roll and side dodge in the game?
I have played a bit as lucario and played quite a bit against Lucario and haven't noticed anything special about his ground or side-dodge. The only semi-annoying thing about him is that he can use his counter if a pikmin is latched onto him at all; but besides that this match is pretty normal for me. All I do is throw pikmin when he's far and smash//brab when he's near.
It seems like you're just getting outplayed. If he's rolling a lot, anticipate and downsmash if he rolls behind you or do a running grab if he rolls away. Rolling by any character is 100% defeated by you anticipating it and attacking out of the roll, so if you're having trouble vs someone side-dodging spam then you just aren't punishing enough. Like I said before, if you encounter someone beating you with the same tactic again and again, you need to turn your brain on and think harder about how these encounters are playing out becuase EVERYTHING in this game has a counter.]
P.S. Thanks Hyde for all the hard work with the video archive thread, those kinds of threads really help the community and I know they're a lot of work to put together
well... when you do get more practice against him, be sure to share what you come across. I'll be waiting.
