Moveset Tier List (Aren't I Original?)

[TP]

Since every other character board is doing this, I figured we should do it to. Peer pressure and all that.

NOTE: This list, this one you see under these here words, kinda sucks. I'm not calling myself an idiot or anything, but the entire thing is kinda meh. Do not consider this list more important than any of the others in this thread. Things like the murder choke and the Dair and even Fsmash are used very differently by different Ganon mains. In other words, there is no list with any real objectivity and there never will be.

Uber:
Warlock Punch

Top:
Uair
Dair
Murder Choke (Ground)

High:
Dash Attack
Dtilt
Usmash
Jab
Fsmash

Mid:
Murder Choke (Air)
Wizkick (Ground)
Ftilt
Fair
Wizkick (Air)
Dthrow

Low:
Bair
Fthrow
UpB
Nair
Bthrow

Bottom:
Dsmash
Utilt
Uthrow

Your thoughts?

 

[Gaussis]

This board is gone too -_-
...
...
...
...
...
Jk

I'll put one up in a while.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Up-B should be lower.

Ground and Aerial Murder Choke should be separated. So should Wizkick.

B-air and N-air should be a bit higher.

Otherwise, I think it's pretty accurate.

 

[gunterrsmash01]

I think Shock wave (instant aerial wizkick) should be a separate move.

 

[TP]

I think Shock wave (instant aerial wizkick) should be a separate move.

My original post would have to be twice as long, because I would need 10 more tiers to separate it from everything else.

People, please back up your arguments.

 

[hyperstation]

Top:
Uair
Dair
Dash Attack
Dtilt

High:
Gerudo (Ground)
Usmash
Fsmash
Gerudo (Aerial)

Mid:
Wizkick (Ground)
Jab
Wizkick (Aerial)
Ftilt
Bair
Fair
Fthrow
Nair


Low:
UpB
Dthrow
Bthrow
Utilt

Bottom:
Dsmash
Uthrow
Warlock Punch

I think Shock wave (instant aerial wizkick) should be a separate move.

Sh*t Tier:
"Shock Wave"

 

[:034:]

Ultimate God Tier of Amazing:
Warlock Punch

Top Tier:
Dair
Uair
Flame Choke (Ground)
Dtilt
Flame Choke (Aerial)

High Tier:
Dash Attack
Jab
Usmash
Fsmash

Mid Tier:
Wizkick (Ground)
Bair
Ftilt
Wizkick (Aerial)
Fthrow
Dsmash
Fair

Low Tier:
Nair
Bthrow
UpB
Dthrow
Uthrow
Utilt

 

[Ray_Kalm]

That one move:
Flame choke (Ground)

Top Tier:
Uair
Dash Attack
Dair
Dtilt

High Tier:
Flame Choke (Aerial)
Jab
Wizkick (Ground)
Usmash
Fsmash

Mid Tier:
Bair
Ftilt
Wizkick (Aerial)
Dthrow
Fthrow

Bottom Tier:
Nair
Uthrow
Bthrow
F-air
Utilt
Up B

 

[TP]

I thought it over and made some fat changes to my original list. Comments?

Also, Ray Kalm, I can't see Uair at 4th. It is half our game on a stage like Battlefield.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

I thought it over and made some fat changes to my original list. Comments?

Also, Ray Kalm, I can't see Uair at 4th. It is half our game on a stage like Battlefield.

Well, I can't see Uair above Dash attack or Dair.

Don't get me wrong, Uair is good. Easily one of Ganon's best moves but I find the moves above it to be more useful.

 

[hyperstation]

Kalm, you're really going to call Gerudo "that one move" meaning his best (I assume?) I mean...it's an incredible move, but once Ganon advances into tournament level play, it doesn't see nearly as much action. UAir, DAir, Dash Attack, and Dtilt are the best moves because they are universally applicable to every aspect of Ganon's game and the 4 of them all function in tandem. The ordering of them is arguable of course, but IMO those are THE 4 moves.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Kalm, you're really going to call Gerudo "that one move" meaning his best (I assume?) I mean...it's an incredible move, but once Ganon advances into tournament level play, it doesn't see nearly as much action. UAir, DAir, Dash Attack, and Dtilt are the best moves because they are universally applicable to every aspect of Ganon's game and the 4 of them all function in tandem. The ordering of them is arguable of course, but IMO those are THE 4 moves.

Flame choke is an incredible move, the best Ganon has in my opinion. You're taking it's low priority and big lag way to far as a disadvantage. This move has more then one way for you to land on your opponent, direct approaches with this move only make it look bad.

 

[hyperstation]

Flame choke is an incredible move, the best Ganon has in my opinion. You're taking it's low priority and big lag way to far as a disadvantage. This move has more then one way for you to land on your opponent, direct approaches with this move only make it look bad.

I agree entirely, but that's why it's not the BEST move. It's too situational at a high level of play. It's not a useful approach or spacing technique, and because of this, it's relegated to a much more circumstantial implementation. Not only that, it's a far less effective move against some opponents vs others, so it doesn't have - as I mentioned in my previous post - the universal application that DAir, UAir, DA, and Dtilt have in a strong buffer game.

I've altered the placement of ground gerudo in my list though. It's top of high tier now because having FSmash and (arguably) Usmash above it was kinda crazy.

 

[TP]

I decided to move DA above Dtilt. Jab works fine in many Dtilt situations, but if you need a DA, it's DA time.

Also, what the ****? My list is the only one with Fair!

I'd like my list to be the pseudo-official list, so please comment on it. Every list posted varies a good deal.

 

[hyperstation]

I'd like my list to be the pseudo-official list, so please comment on it. Every list posted varies a good deal.

That's a tall order, bud, for the reason you give in the second sentence above...

I've got plenty of comments about your list, but rather than give them, you could just look at mine. This whole "move tier list" idea that's really hot right now on all the character boards is fun and all, but it's really just an incredibly watered down moveset discussion thread. The lists will continue being entirely subjective with nothing to qualify them other than one move's placement relative to another move. Ultimately each list is just quick description of each Ganon main's play style.

 

[powuh_of_PIE]

Ftilt needs to be higher. Sure, it's slightly shorter than the T-punch, but it's still got an amazing trajectory. ***** vertical recoverers.

 

[TP]

That's a tall order, bud, for the reason you give in the second sentence above...

I've got plenty of comments about your list, but rather than give them, you could just look at mine. This whole "move tier list" idea that's really hot right now on all the character boards is fun and all, but it's really just an incredibly watered down moveset discussion thread. The lists will continue being entirely subjective with nothing to qualify them other than one move's placement relative to another move. Ultimately each list is just quick description of each Ganon main's play style.

My response:



I'll retract my tall order and update my first post.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I agree entirely, but that's why it's not the BEST move. It's too situational at a high level of play. It's not a useful approach or spacing technique, and because of this, it's relegated to a much more circumstantial implementation. Not only that, it's a far less effective move against some opponents vs others, so it doesn't have - as I mentioned in my previous post - the universal application that DAir, UAir, DA, and Dtilt have in a strong buffer game.

I've altered the placement of ground gerudo in my list though. It's top of high tier now because having FSmash and (arguably) Usmash above it was kinda crazy.

ALL of Ganon's attacks are way too situational in high level play. Just saying.

 

[Browny]

how is his fthrow not his best throw? 13.5% or something lol.

anyway just a few things, cbf writing a whole list.
dair needs to be #1
bair goes a lot higher
and fsmash above usmash

 

[Swoops]

ALL of Ganon's attacks are way too situational in high level play. Just saying.

U-Air, D-Tilt, and DA aren't that situational.

I might as well contribute

Top

U-Air
D-Tilt
DA

High

D-Air
Gerudo (Ground)
Jab

Middle

U-Smash
Wizkick (Ground)
F-Tilt
D-Throw
F-Smash
B-Air

Low

F-Throw
N-Air
Wizkick (Air)
Gerudo (Air)
U-Throw
B-throw

Bottom

Up B
U-Tilt
D-Smash

U-Air: Definitely Ganondorf's best move. For shame if you don't agree. Fantastic range, great priority, no lag, and is useful in about every situation; when they're in the air, off the stage, can be RARed into other buffers when they are on the ground.

D-Tilt: One of his best and only spacing tools. **** good range, a good poke, can go under shields, sets up at higher percents, and sets up at lower percents.

DA: Great range, god priority, fast, hits on the ground or in the air, and nets you kills early as hell after gerudo or whenever. Only thing that holds it back is its lag on shield and its decay.

Any other reasoning you need and I'd be happy to give it

EDIT:

how is his fthrow not his best throw? 13.5% or something lol.

anyway just a few things, cbf writing a whole list.
dair needs to be #1
bair goes a lot higher
and fsmash above usmash

13% is really nice, but it doesn't set up for anything. I think the 6% extra is hardly something to boast when you consider d-throw's follow up options.

D-Air shouldnt be first at all. It's horrible on shield, destroyed by aerials, u-tilts, and some u-smashes, and can be spotdodged then punished by quite a few people.

I agree on higher, not a lot though.

o.O...no. Kills like a mother, but way too much lag to be considered over the mindgame inducing u-smash.

 

[A2ZOMG]

U-Air, D-Tilt, and DA aren't that situational.

Y'know, I'd tell you to play against a competent top tier character, but you have, but I'm still going to rub it in and emphasize this because at the end of the day, Ganon doesn't exactly have a whole ton of safe options against most good characters.

Even the attacks you mentioned, I find that if Ganon uses any attack, he has to commit to it, and if the opponent reads and spaces against it right, there is almost always a way to punish Ganon.

Personally, I myself don't necessarily agree with Ray_Kalm that Flame Choke is Ganon's best attack, but still, my point stands that pretty much everything Ganondorf does is situational, if indeed effective at the right time.

And sorry for being so ultra depressive about Ganon. I just hope I'm helpful here. =P

 

[Swoops]

Y'know, I'd tell you to play against a competent top tier character, but you have, but I'm still going to rub it in and emphasize this because at the end of the day, Ganon doesn't exactly have a whole ton of safe options against most good characters.

Even the attacks you mentioned, I find that if Ganon uses any attack, he has to commit to it, and if the opponent reads and spaces against it right, there is almost always a way to punish Ganon.

Personally, I myself don't necessarily agree with Ray_Kalm that Flame Choke is Ganon's best attack, but still, my point stands that pretty much everything Ganondorf does is situational, if indeed effective at the right time.

And sorry for being so ultra depressive about Ganon. I just hope I'm helpful here. =P

No, he doesn't have a lot of safe options, that's why he's a bait and punish character which has been stated over and over again...we all know he doesn't have a lot of safe options.

But your idea of situational is that if it has one or two situations that it doesn't work in, it's situational. Nearly every move in the game has a situation in which it won't work, but that doesn't make it a situational move. If the move has only one or two good places where it works well, then you can start calling it situational.

Moves I would actually categorize as situational but very good would be d-air, gerudo, wizkick, and the like. Moves that are a lot more reliant on what the other character is doing.

 

[Z1GMA]

I like Hyperstations list ..

btw, Up+b can be quite useful when the opponent suspects you to grab the ledge but instead you hold down and give him a Shoryoken! : )

 

[Ray_Kalm]

U-Air, D-Tilt, and DA aren't that situational.

I might as well contribute

Top

U-Air
D-Tilt
DA

High

D-Air
Gerudo (Ground)
Jab

Middle

U-Smash
Wizkick (Ground)
F-Tilt
D-Throw
F-Smash
B-Air

Low

F-Throw
N-Air
Wizkick (Air)
Gerudo (Air)
U-Throw
B-throw

Bottom

Up B
U-Tilt
D-Smash

U-Air: Definitely Ganondorf's best move. For shame if you don't agree. Fantastic range, great priority, no lag, and is useful in about every situation; when they're in the air, off the stage, can be RARed into other buffers when they are on the ground.

D-Tilt: One of his best and only spacing tools. **** good range, a good poke, can go under shields, sets up at higher percents, and sets up at lower percents.

DA: Great range, god priority, fast, hits on the ground or in the air, and nets you kills early as hell after gerudo or whenever. Only thing that holds it back is its lag on shield and its decay.

Any other reasoning you need and I'd be happy to give it

EDIT:



13% is really nice, but it doesn't set up for anything. I think the 6% extra is hardly something to boast when you consider d-throw's follow up options.

D-Air shouldnt be first at all. It's horrible on shield, destroyed by aerials, u-tilts, and some u-smashes, and can be spotdodged then punished by quite a few people.

I agree on higher, not a lot though.

o.O...no. Kills like a mother, but way too much lag to be considered over the mindgame inducing u-smash.

Yeah D-air isn't that much of a safe move, I realized that after I fought Blubba's Link yesterday. I made some adjustments to my list.

I don't actually agree on U-air being all that useful. I know it has the best attributes out of all of Ganon's moves but, it has pretty limited use.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Well, the Japanese use the U-air all the time on stage. And **** people with it. It's gotta be really good.

 

[Naylz]

Hey all. New to posting but avid reader over last 6 months or so. Can't begin to thank everyone enough for the knowledge I've pulled from just this forum alone. I'm currently looking to expand into tournament play come the New Year for my first time but will admit that Ganon is not my first choice to main for obvious reasons. However, the 'Dorf is by far my favorite character to play in Brawl and I thought I'd add to this topic to both get into the forum community a bit and post a tier list with a little more insight than I've seen so far.

Also, I find it intriguing how Ganon's higher tier moves really do a great job in hinting towards how he should be played. As everyone has mentioned at one point or another in this forum, Ganon is all about punishing and baiting your opponent. For any new Ganon's out there, take a look into these tier lists from this thread and try and reflect on how they correlate to Ganon's proper playstyle in Brawl. I know that making this list of my own was an eye opener for me. Ok, thats all from the new guy =P


And w/o further … Ganon’s Move Set Tier List


Defining: Exactly as the category labels them. These two moves are why you play the ‘Dorf.

1D) Flame Choke

Primary Use(s): Punisher #1 / Combo Setups / Edge Options (Hugging, Recovery, Ganon-cide, etc.)

2D) Thunder stomp (D-air)

Primary Use(s): Spike & Damage (“the” Edge Guard ) / Punisher #2 / Murder Combo Pt. 1



Top Tier: Ganon’s Primary Arsenal

1T) U-air

Primary Use(s): Edge Guarding / Anti-Air / Murder Combo Pt. 2B

2T) Dash Attack

Primary Use(s): KO Potential / Punisher #3 / Priority “Cushion” is Awesome

3T) D-Tilt

Primary Use(s): Ranged Attack / Damage Building / Spacing

4T) F-Tilt

Primary Use(s): Anti-Air / Ranged Attack / KO Potential (through Flame Choke combos)

5T) Jab

Primary Use(s): Damage Building / Spacing / Ranged Attack



High Tier: Ganon’s Secondary Arsenal

1H) Wizkick

Primary Use(s): Mind Games / Damage Building / Gap Closing

2H) B-air

Primary Use(s): Baiting

3H) Elbow Smash

Primary Use(s): KO King


Average Tier:

1A) U-smash

Primary Use(s): Platform Punishment / Murder Combo Pt. 2A

2A) F-air

Primary Use(s): Edge Guarding / Anti-Air

3A) N-air

Primary Use(s): Air Dodge Counter / Aerial Mind Games

Low Tier

1L) U-Tilt

Primary Use(s): Edge Guarding

2L) D-smash

Primary Use(s): OoS mixer-upper at best …

3L) Recovery (up-B)

Primary Use(s): Recovery (and recovery only)

4L) Murder Punch

Primary Use(s): Shield Break Punishment and Laughs =P

 

[TP]

Welcome to the forum, Naylz. Good first post. Your list is fine, but there are a couple of things I should point out. First of all, you may notice that every other list puts Usmash above Fsmash. This is because they take an identical amount of time to start, but Usmash ends much quicker. Missing with an Usmash or having it blocked is much less likely to lead to you getting punished. Second of all, you call Dair "the" Edge Guard. It certainly is the coolest option, but the Uair is best. Ever heard of a Tipman spike? Jump off the stage backward and start your Uair and fast fall. There is a huge range for this move to hit. If you hit them near the end of the Uair, they will be sent down and away. For most characters, this means death.

If you already knew all that, you are a quality lurker.

 

[Naylz]

Welcome to the forum, Naylz. Good first post. Your list is fine, but there are a couple of things I should point out. First of all, you may notice that every other list puts Usmash above Fsmash. This is because they take an identical amount of time to start, but Usmash ends much quicker. Missing with an Usmash or having it blocked is much less likely to lead to you getting punished. Second of all, you call Dair "the" Edge Guard. It certainly is the coolest option, but the Uair is best. Ever heard of a Tipman spike? Jump off the stage backward and start your Uair and fast fall. There is a huge range for this move to hit. If you hit them near the end of the Uair, they will be sent down and away. For most characters, this means death.

If you already knew all that, you are a quality lurker.

Thanks for the welcome man. I quoted the above because I do in fact know of Tipman Spike and its uses (im quite the lurker =P) but also because I agree with you that "the" edge guard title does properly belong to U-Air and its RAR uses for offstage pursuit. However, I can honestly say that D-Air's spike is 50% or more of the reason I love playing Ganon and that it is by far the most entertaining spike to land while edge guarding. Either way, thanks for the feedback. Peace bro

 

[Wizard99]

Up-Tilt > Neutral-B

Warlock Punch has very little use, while Volcano Kick can be used for edgeguarding.

Thank you and goodnight.

 

[Serph]

Warlock Punch is better than up tilt in free-for-all. But I guess we aren't talking about that mode. :embarrass