Moveset Speculation and Discussion Thread

[Zoyah]

Do we have any confirmed jab resets or are the ones mentioned so far just speculated?

 

[OceloT42]

Dragon Lance sticking to walls may be good for you folk who are actually good at Smash Bros., but I can already see many different size boots coming down on my head in the future.

Don't worry about it, after the first 5 times or so you'll be able to deal with them.
Or you can bait a meteor approach,cancel and Counter (probably)

 

[Mr_Kreep3r]

Do we have any confirmed jab resets or are the ones mentioned so far just speculated?

Speculation mainly, but ZSS stun jab locks so DFS stun should also.

 

[Zoyah]

Speculation mainly, but ZSS stun jab locks so DFS stun should also.

Interesting. I was kind of thinking about that. Though from a design/balance point of view I don't know if Corrin would have a lock/reset since that would be kind of broken lol.

 

[Deleted member]

Interesting. I was kind of thinking about that. Though from a design/balance point of view I don't know if Corrin would have a lock/reset since that would be kind of broken lol.

I wouldn't rule it out completely (barring the fact that the knockback of her moves doesn't seem conducive to resets) in regards to Corrin having a "broken" option since pre-nerf Hoo-Hah was a thing, lol.

 

[LancerStaff]

Alrighty, let's differentiate between doubts and pessimism, shall we?
Doubts-
"I see some possible drawbacks,but this character looks like he/she/it has potential as well!"

Pessimism-
"Gosh, even a rotting corpse would be better than this ****"

You haven't said a single positive thing about this character in over a 1000 posts.I understand that you have some doubts but really? Not a positive thing?
You do give some really nice observations, but the way you go on, it's like you absolutely detest Corrin.
Are you one of those Wolf or Snake people? Is that why you're doing this?
I have to agree with Raziek here.

Just like you guys don't want to talk about the negatives, I don't feel like dwelling on the positives. It's rather telling that the only person I've seen even hint at an overall weakness is Nairo...

I've said that you need easy ways to kill to be viable unless your name is Pikachu. I mean, I don't think I've made any comparisons to moldy corpses or anything like that. Next to the really viable swordsmen I just don't see anything of note besides an extraordinarily good Luigi matchup. That's really all there is to it.

 

[PK Gaming]

Just like you guys don't want to talk about the negatives, I don't feel like dwelling on the positives. It's rather telling that the only person I've seen even hint at an overall weakness is Nairo...

I've said that you need easy ways to kill to be viable unless your name is Pikachu. I mean, I don't think I've made any comparisons to moldy corpses or anything like that. Next to the really viable swordsmen I just don't see anything of note besides an extraordinarily good Luigi matchup. That's really all there is to it.

No, that's wrong. You goddamn main a character who has no kill setups, ffs.

EDIT: And we did talk about negatives, we were just smart about it.

 

[OceloT42]

Just like you guys don't want to talk about the negatives, I don't feel like dwelling on the positives. It's rather telling that the only person I've seen even hint at an overall weakness is Nairo...

I've said that you need easy ways to kill to be viable unless your name is Pikachu. I mean, I don't think I've made any comparisons to moldy corpses or anything like that. Next to the really viable swordsmen I just don't see anything of note besides an extraordinarily good Luigi matchup. That's really all there is to it.

Sooooooo.....
You're just here to complain about Corrin and, I don't know, not play him/her or whatever.
FYI everyone on this thread has expressed doubt about Corrin as well as negatives, along with the positives. We've not been vomiting rainbows or something.
How about you say something positive about Corrin? Just for once?


UNRELATED: Under what conditions does my signature appear when I post?

 

[alguidrag]

Just like you guys don't want to talk about the negatives, I don't feel like dwelling on the positives. It's rather telling that the only person I've seen even hint at an overall weakness is Nairo...

I've said that you need easy ways to kill to be viable unless your name is Pikachu. I mean, I don't think I've made any comparisons to moldy corpses or anything like that. Next to the really viable swordsmen I just don't see anything of note besides an extraordinarily good Luigi matchup. That's really all there is to it.

We talked about negatives, but we not say things like: hurr dur Corrin have tip efect in Fsmash so he will only kill at 300% untiped
Or: hurr dur dragon lunge is predictable this character will be bad
We speaked like: seems that DL will be hard to hit, but can be good if we predict or: Dair seems easy to predict, but at least is disjoint

 

[Zoyah]

I wouldn't rule it out completely (barring the fact that the knockback of her moves doesn't seem conducive to resets) in regards to Corrin having a "broken" option since pre-nerf Hoo-Hah was a thing, lol.

That is very true. I guess we'll see tomorrow or in my case Thursday. I am hopeful for one though since it'd probably help Corrin at least a fair bit.


I think one of the first things I think I'm going to look at is setups into DL. Possibly Forward Air (like when we saw it in the trailer into ftilts) at low-mid percents -> DL? That'd be good for convenience imo, but I may be reaching with that.

 

[Yoite]

I heard Corrin's up air kills as early as pre patch diddy's did. Is this true?

 

[Raziek]

UNRELATED: Under what conditions does my signature appear when I post?

Only appears the first time you post on a page of a thread.

 

[OceloT42]

I heard Corrin's up air kills as early as pre patch diddy's did. Is this true?

Apparently.
Nairo said as such ina few posts back...

 

[alguidrag]

Question, nairo said anything about his Up smash?? It drag oponents into the strong spot? (Like rob's)

 

[Zult]

No you don't. You goddamn main a character who has no kill setups, ffs.

EDIT: And we did talk about negatives, we were just smart about it.

Pit actually has kill set ups and confirms ;-; albeit risky to do, but set ups nonetheless

Just like you guys don't want to talk about the negatives, I don't feel like dwelling on the positives. It's rather telling that the only person I've seen even hint at an overall weakness is Nairo...

I've said that you need easy ways to kill to be viable unless your name is Pikachu. I mean, I don't think I've made any comparisons to moldy corpses or anything like that. Next to the really viable swordsmen I just don't see anything of note besides an extraordinarily good Luigi matchup. That's really all there is to it.

I've talked about the negatives quite a lot, I just don't make a post 100% negative or 100% positive. I try to say it could or couldn't work.

 

[OceloT42]

Question, nairo said anything about his Up smash?? It drag oponents into the strong spot? (Like rob's)

There's a snapshot of him performing it on Yoshi, looks like it.
I hope it's not like Mewtwo's.

 

[alguidrag]

There's a snapshot of him performing it on Yoshi, looks like it.
I hope it's not like Mewtwo's.

whats the problem of mew2's?

 

[kmpyj]

Question, nairo said anything about his Up smash?? It drag oponents into the strong spot? (Like rob's)

(Forgive me if I'm wrong)

I remember Nairo saying that he didn't like how narrow the hitbox was on Kamui's USmash. Saying it doesn't really cover his front and back.

However he did mention that it looks as though it has a tipper, but he hasn't gotten a chance to test it. Perhaps it could be best served when your opponent is directly above?

 

[OceloT42]

whats the problem of mew2's?

Only the first hit drags opponents into it,and it's not even a feet hitbox.

 

[LancerStaff]

No, that's wrong. You goddamn main a character who has no kill setups, ffs.

EDIT: And we did talk about negatives, we were just smart about it.

Force an opponent to fall out of Nair and that's a free Usmash until like 200%. Not even that hard since you still get the autocancel and it's safe. Dair groundbounce leads to falling Uair to Usmash. Dair by itself isn't the safest thing in the world but you can approach a shield with it many different ways. Most notably it outright ends before Pit lands from a short hop. Pit grabs you on a platform, you're probably dead. And Fthrow obviously.

Not to mention his most powerful read/punish moves have next to no startup and don't require tippers or anything like that. Fastest Usmash in the game, f6. Tied for fastest Fsmash, f10, and beats spotdodges. Arrows are the closest thing to consistent edgeguarding in the game while I'm at it.

I mean, Pit ain't exactly a common character but you should know he's the all-arounder, even more then Mario. He's good at everything besides like being Sheik.

Sooooooo.....
You're just here to complain about Corrin and, I don't know, not play him/her or whatever.
FYI everyone on this thread has expressed doubt about Corrin as well as negatives, along with the positives. We've not been vomiting rainbows or something.
How about you say something positive about Corrin? Just for once??

I don't intend on playing as the character but I'd sure like to know his strengths and weaknesses.

I've said some positive things, and I'm contributing. I don't think I need to pass some arbitrary "positiveness threshold" to stick around.

 

[Halifax?]

If the fair does combo into uair and uair kills we might just have an upside down ken combo on our hands.

 

[PK Gaming]

Force an opponent to fall out of Nair and that's a free Usmash until like 200%. Not even that hard since you still get the autocancel and it's safe. Dair groundbounce leads to falling Uair to Usmash. Dair by itself isn't the safest thing in the world but you can approach a shield with it many different ways. Most notably it outright ends before Pit lands from a short hop. Pit grabs you on a platform, you're probably dead. And Fthrow obviously.

Not to mention his most powerful read/punish moves have next to no startup and don't require tippers or anything like that. Fastest Usmash in the game, f6. Tied for fastest Fsmash, f10, and beats spotdodges. Arrows are the closest thing to consistent edgeguarding in the game while I'm at it.

He has situational kill set ups (like most characters do) and on average, has trouble closing out stocks since he doesn't have consistent kill setups. He's definitely well rounded and a fairly strong, but sometimes struggles at landing the KO... come on, this is basic Pit knowledge.

Then again, you're incredibly biased towards Pit so this is expected.

 

[Mr_Kreep3r]

If the fair does combo into uair and uair kills we might just have an upside down ken combo on our hands.

Obmoc nek

Back to speculating I wanna talk about what Nairo said about Corrin's recovery since we know it has a few frames of invicibilty around start up. And judging by wing disjoint hit box/water is this move still easy to react to and spike or is it somewhat safe.

Edit: Also if @Nairo reads this did he know about the invincibility at the time? Or was it just not helping?

 

[Laken64]

So I've been wonde... I mean thinking of a possible combo with Corrin but I'm not really sure about it:
If you pin your foe with DL and cancel would it be possible to follow up with a DFS in to possible ways:
1) charge for stun and bite
2) shoot quickly and skip to charged bite
It's just something I thought about so please share your thoughts and maybe feel free to test it when Corrin comes out

 

[Zoyah]

So I've been wonde... I mean thinking of a possible combo with Corrin but I'm not really sure about it:
If you pin your foe with DL and cancel would it be possible to follow up with a DFS in to possible ways:
1) charge for stun and bite
2) shoot quickly and skip to charged bite
It's just something I thought about so please share your thoughts and maybe feel free to test it when Corrin comes out

I think if you're going for just DFS after DL cancel then it would be best to do something like DL -> Cancel -> DFS reset (not mandatory to do bite, correct? I recall people say it was but I can't remember seeing it every time) -> Charge DFS as they get up, charge bite while they're in stun


On the topic of combos I have always thought Corrin would be a good footstooler. Maybe Neutral Air (it seems to give a good angle) -> Footstool?

Also, I wonder if Up Air will be our best kill option. Nairo was saying that with rage its like prepatch Diddy's up air, but there's got table something we can do to set up into a kill. Thinking of up air, I doubt we could carry them upwards to the top at high percents with 2+ up airs because of the knockback. Since in that free-for-all Corrin had 90% rage and killed at the top with Up Air on a Marth at 110+ percent we can't really give a good estimate on how rage, weight and kbg/bkg will change things.

So with uncertainty of Up Air at the moment I want to quickly look at Forward Smash. I'm thinking that since Neutral Air seems like a good landing option we will be able to use a n-air to convert into an up angled F-Smash. Though, again, this is still quite dependent on rage, kbg, weight and all of that but it's a possibility I suppose.

We don't know much about b-throw (u-throw speculated to kill around ~150 or less if I'm on the same page) but I'm still thinking that somewhere Corrin will have an earlier kill throw. Now, this could be totally wrong and maybe I'm just hoping for something reliable but if you look at Ness' b-throw at low percents and how much kbg changes his and look at Corrin's at low percent. I still think b-throw will at least be decent regardless of if it kills/not since it looks to have a good stage positioning/tech chasing aspect (like Melee Marth's d-throw as a mixup). Maybe you could reverse side b into front kick to cover tech away from b-throw. No clue


Just some quick thoughts on combos, kill setups and throws. I could be entirely wrong with this and I'm not trying to get my hopes up at all, but I just wanted to share some thoughts that popped into my head as I was replying to Laken. Will be interesting to see how Corrin gets kills. Maybe s/he'll get them in an entirely different way from what anyone has speculated, but then considering our current data I find that fairly unlikely. I'm just going to leave it there before I get going again >_<

 

[Deleted member]

So I've been wonde... I mean thinking of a possible combo with Corrin but I'm not really sure about it:
If you pin your foe with DL and cancel would it be possible to follow up with a DFS in to possible ways:
1) charge for stun and bite
2) shoot quickly and skip to charged bite
It's just something I thought about so please share your thoughts and maybe feel free to test it when Corrin comes out

Well,

Technically speaking it depends on how much charge you're wanting to achieve with DFS beforehand (when charging is relevant), but for the sake of this post/response I'm going to assume that at least 1/2 charge is desired on both (if the charge time is relevant based on the option to which I'm responding). This also assumes that the DL cancel won't be teched

With these assumptions, option 1 is unlikely considering the time it takes for DFS to reach half-charge (which isn't that much, but is still notable) is longer than it takes an opponent to act out of a grounded state after DL is cancelled. So the character could roll in and possibly cross-up while you're charging, they may be in get-up attack range (character dependent iirc), or they could roll backwards, which would leave them more vulnerable to the DFS projectile itself (because you get a bit more charge time as they're rolling and it's easy to put on damage on opponents coming out of a get-up roll option), but less vulnerable to a generally hard punish since they will likely be out of bite range and Corrin has limited follow-up options from the DFS projectile excluding the bite.

The same goes for option 2 (although I suppose it could possibly be more likely in terms of having success than Option 1), although the explanation is a bit different. In this case you're passing over a charged DFS projectile in an attempt to maximize bite damage. For the sake of simply getting any DFS projectile -> bite damage, I feel that this option could actually have a relatively decent amount of success if Corrin can put out an uncharged DFS projectile before the opponent can use a get-up option. But, in the case where you're going for an uncharged DFS projectile -> at least 1/2 charged bite, I don't think such a sequence would be likely to connect simply because the stun on an uncharged DFS projectile is so low, so the opponent could move out of the bite's range before you achieve 1/2 or greater charge.

 

[Zoyah]

So the character could roll in and possibly cross-up while you're charging, they may be in get-up attack range (character dependent iirc), or they could roll backwards, which would leave them more vulnerable to the DFS projectile itself (because you get a bit more charge time as they're rolling and it's easy to put on damage on opponents coming out of a get-up roll option, but less vulnerable to a generally hard punish since they likely be out of bite range and Corrin has limited follow-up options from the DFS projectile excluding the bite.

So what you're saying is that we could threaten the space infront of us with a DFS projectile charging to condition them into picking a roll to potentially cross up us completely. So we could use the whole DFS as a bait then react to the roll-behind by releasing as they're rolling to be in position to punish possibly before/just after the roll ends, assuming reaction time and DFS end lag gives lenient time? Then if they choose to stay in front of you they're pretty much getting hit either way... You know, perhaps this could work.

 

[sunfallSeraph]

So what you're saying is that we could threaten the space infront of us with a DFS projectile charging to condition them into picking a roll to potentially cross up us completely. So we could use the whole DFS as a bait then react to the roll-behind by releasing as they're rolling to be in position to punish possibly before/just after the roll ends, assuming reaction time and DFS end lag gives lenient time? Then if they choose to stay in front of you they're pretty much getting hit either way... You know, perhaps this could work.

Mixups on cancel will be a thing, but I'm gonna guess that tech roll away might be harder to punish than other reactions. I don't think DFS will be fast enough at any charge to challenge that option, so we'll be left with grab, dash attack, maaaaybe Fsmash depending on the roll? Hopefully there will be a more offensive option available than grab at least, since it's pretty well set already that we don't get guaranteed throw followups.

 

[OceloT42]

What about the easy DL>cancel>get-up read>Dair?

 

[sunfallSeraph]

What about the easy DL>cancel>get-up read>Dair?

If they miss the tech and you read a neutral get-up, then they've pretty much handed you their ass on a platter. XD Might as well charge Usmash or DFS if that's the case.

 

[Deleted member]

What about the easy DL>cancel>get-up read>Dair?

I assume you're referring to neutral get-up only (other roll options would be hard if not impossible to cover with tech-chase SH Dair because of Corrin's speed and because of Dair's strictly vertical fall trajectory), in which case Dair wouldn't be the practical choice since you could freely get Dtilt -> Uair, a (at least partially) charged DFS sequence, or some other option.

Does the option exist? Yes.

Would I choose that over something simple which would give me more damage? No.

 

[Zoyah]

Mixups on cancel will be a thing, but I'm gonna guess that tech roll away might be harder to punish than other reactions. I don't think DFS will be fast enough at any charge to challenge that option, so we'll be left with grab, dash attack, maaaaybe Fsmash depending on the roll? Hopefully there will be a more offensive option available than grab at least, since it's pretty well set already that we don't get guaranteed throw followups.

Couldn't you react to them rolling away by releasing DFS during it? I'm not sure how far it reaches but I heard it goes about 2/3s+ of neutral Castle Siege so wouldn't that cover it? Then again I guess that'd depend on the speed it travels and if that would be about ~1.5[+]x faster than the opponents roll so there's another variable. I guess it all does depend on speed then.

Assuming Corrin's run speed matches what was guessed earlier in terms of speed compared to roll we would be able to punish with quite a few things (maybe even an aerials) given we're in the right position when the roll starts. Perhaps we could do an empty hop (tomahawk) grab or something. I just hope the timing is lenient so we can get some damage off of it.

 

[OceloT42]

Ok, 'twas just a thought.
Can someone compare the distance Dragon ascent travels with an existing move? I feel it goes as high as Dolphin Slash but I can't be sure.

 

[Zoyah]

Ok, 'twas just a thought.
Can someone compare the distance Dragon ascent travels with an existing move? I feel it goes as high as Dolphin Slash but I can't be sure.

I tried it on Suzaku Castle and the horizontal distance seemed about the same. It was a while ago though, but I do remember that the vertical didn't feel that far off either. I'd say it's at least comparable to some extent. Maybe it's not the distance it will go but rather the time it takes to get there and how exposed you will be as you do it leaving you vulnerable.

 

[alguidrag]

Ok, 'twas just a thought.
Can someone compare the distance Dragon ascent travels with an existing move? I feel it goes as high as Dolphin Slash but I can't be sure.

He looked to go high verticaly (maybe just a bit lower than pit's) and decent diagonal

 

[OceloT42]

Does anyone know what time they're releasing him/her?
Also, I was thinking, for edgeguarding you could hop offstage, side-b onto stage and back kick.Your recovery has you covered, and it plays havoc with fellas like Mac and Cloud.
Y'all probably thought of it, but just wanted to bring it up.

 

[Zoyah]

Does anyone know what time they're releasing him/her?
Also, I was thinking, for edgeguarding you could hop offstage, side-b onto stage and back kick.Your recovery has you covered, and it plays havoc with fellas like Mac and Cloud.
Y'all probably thought of it, but just wanted to bring it up.

I've been thinking about straight using side b to edgeguard too, but instead of using the kick just use the actual lunge. It seemed to kill Marth with ease in that video so I want to know what percents that starts to work. I think your option would actually cover Fox/Falco illusion and similar moves if you did it on the stage instead off of or you were quick enough to set it up offstage. I think mine would more cover panic double jumps when people get hit offstage and people trying to avoid you with long lasting up b's. Intriguing thought though.

 

[Pedker]

Does anyone know what time they're releasing him/her?
Also, I was thinking, for edgeguarding you could hop offstage, side-b onto stage and back kick.Your recovery has you covered, and it plays havoc with fellas like Mac and Cloud.
Y'all probably thought of it, but just wanted to bring it up.

All NOA's Twitter says is that they'll be released "On the evening of February 3rd." My original guess (now debunked, most likely) was on February 4, 0:00 Japan Time (7:00 AM PST).

Side-B kicking away from the stage seems interesting, but only in theory to me. I not 100% sure if Corrin will actually be able to recover from that: he's facing away from the stage, so he can't B-air, and the kick goes pretty far. We'll see in less than 24 hours either way.
Instead, I was thinking that down-angled F-smash would work wonders for many characters' recoveries. For one example, like you mentioned, Little Mac: F-Smash covers Side-B (stand near the ledge so it goes offstage), and if he goes low to try and Up-B, use your disjointed D-air to hit through the stage.
F-Smash in theory should also be able to cover Fox/Falco Illusions, and unlike other moves that can contest Illusion, the reward is the entire stock.

 

[OceloT42]

All NOA's Twitter says is that they'll be released "On the evening of February 3rd." My original guess (now debunked, most likely) was on February 4, 0:00 Japan Time (7:00 AM PST).

Side-B kicking away from the stage seems interesting, but only in theory to me. I not 100% sure if Corrin will actually be able to recover from that: he's facing away from the stage, so he can't B-air, and the kick goes pretty far. We'll see in less than 24 hours either way.
Instead, I was thinking that down-angled F-smash would work wonders for many characters' recoveries. For one example, like you mentioned, Little Mac: F-Smash covers Side-B (stand near the ledge so it goes offstage), and if he goes low to try and Up-B, use your disjointed D-air to hit through the stage.
F-Smash in theory should also be able to cover Fox/Falco Illusions, and unlike other moves that can contest Illusion, the reward is the entire stock.

I've already considered angled Fsmash as a potent recovery shutdown against many like Mac and Falcon and Ganon. Oh and the space animals as well.
I will just stand on the ledge and laugh loudly.
I also look forward to reading the sure-to-be-coming "CORRIN IS SO OP" posts on gamefaqs and others. Hell there are already some now, and that's just from footage.

 

[Mechaglacier]

Question: would we have to make another combo sharing thread for release or do we unlock the one already made?
Other than that glad to see that Nairo dropped by last night to answer some questions I wanted to ask him if Corrin can edgeguard offstage as well as marth and be able to make it back. I guess that's more of a question for tomorrow. Also what estimate would we make about the size of Nair?