Moveset Speculation and Discussion Thread

[Naragacu]

Since someone brought up that the translation might not be 100% correct, I looked at what the Japanese trailer said. I think I interpreted it correctly, but take it with a grain of salt, I'm not fluent yet.

The subtitle line when they introduce DFS says 相手が近いと、鋭く変身した手でかみつく, literally "if the opponent is near, bite with the sharply transformed hand." Which would indicate that it's mandatory, if it weren't for the spoken line being different. I couldn't make it all out, but I very clearly heard that it ended in "かみつくことができる", which means that the player CAN bite, as opposed to the first, where かみつく just says "bite" in the present indicative.

I'm inclined to trust the spoken line a bit more since the subtitles seem to be pretty condensed in general, but you be the judge.

 

[LancerStaff]

you're underestimating the shot speed.

Corrin barely had enough time to move before Ryu did. A few frames would make it impossible, and this is presumably without DIing down. With, and it wouldn't work at any range.

Corrin's F-Smash doesn't have a long startup to it. Within that gif alone, Corrin has enough time to jump and use a full N-Air before Ryu is knocked out of stun (also worth noting: we can't accurately gauge how long the stun effect lasts due to Ryu being hit out of stun before it's finished). That's enough time to fire off an F-Smash.

Not really seeing it... And that's assuming you can hit with a projectile that you have to charge for like a whole second.

As it's been said, the other Corrin just jumped past. And that was probably the max amount of hitstun anyway.

I'm still not seeing a bite. Just looks like the ending animation to me.

And anyone who gets hit by a charged DFS at somewhat high percents should prepare to die because unlike ZSS Corrin actually has smash attacks that will kill. I think they are stunned long enough for you to do almost anything you want.

ZSS just kills you off of a grab instead...

 

[OceloT42]

Is it just me or does Corrin's Fair looks like it autocancels from a shorthop?
I watched the part straight after his splash art where he attacks Shulk with an Fair followed by Ftilt.
I'm sorry if it is a wrong judgement.I'm not very good at judging moves.I didn't know about the existence of autocancel until I did Cloud's shorthop Nair, and found he could immediately do whatever he liked when he landed.

EDIT:Important question,do you think Corrin can wall jump? Remote possibility?

 

[Mr_Kreep3r]

Is it just me or does Corrin's Fair looks like it autocancels from a shorthop?
I watched the part straight after his splash art where he attacks Shulk with an Fair followed by Ftilt.
I'm sorry if it is a wrong judgement.I'm not very good at judging moves.I didn't know about the existence of autocancel until I did Cloud's shorthop Nair, and found he could immediately do whatever he liked when he landed.

EDIT:Important question,do you think Corrin can wall jump? Remote possibility?

Marth/Lucina/Roy wall jump so why not

 

[OceloT42]

Marth/Lucina/Roy wall jump so why not

They don't.
http://www.ssbwiki.com/Wall_jump#Characters_who_can_wall_jump

 

[Mr_Kreep3r]

They don't.
http://www.ssbwiki.com/Wall_jump#Characters_who_can_wall_jump

Lol my B I swear i seen them wall jump before it must just be there regular jump animation in my head. Corrin is more agile and barefooted so maybe. But Sakurai may stick to FE characters don't wall jump in their games so no wall jumps type of thing.

 

[theyellowflash26]

Lol my B I swear i seen them wall jump before it must just be there regular jump animation in my head. Corrin is more agile and barefooted so maybe. But Sakurai my stick to FE characters don't wall jump in their games so no wall jumps type of thing.

who knows? villager, 4 of the pokemon, and duck hunt dont walljump in their games yet here they are.

 

[OceloT42]

A dog with no opposable thumbs grips the wall and walljumps.
Hell villager doesn't even have fingers and his recovery is OP anyways.
Pray for wall jumping Corrin.Pray to Arceus.

 

[Armagon]

Some of us here think the bite on DFS happens automatically, while other think its a manual input. And then a thought came to me: What if its both? For example, that scene where Falco got hit by DFS in the direct, Falco was close enough so the bite happened automatically. But if your opponent is far away, the bite won't happen unless the player presses the B button. This theory is extremely unlikely though. Even i don't believe it myself.

Is it just me or does Corrin's Fair looks like it autocancels from a shorthop?
I watched the part straight after his splash art where he attacks Shulk with an Fair followed by Ftilt.
I'm sorry if it is a wrong judgement.I'm not very good at judging moves.I didn't know about the existence of autocancel until I did Cloud's shorthop Nair, and found he could immediately do whatever he liked when he landed.

EDIT:Important question,do you think Corrin can wall jump? Remote possibility?

Hopefully Corrin can wall jump considering he isn't exactly human (well aware that there are some human characters who can wall jump). Or at the very least, a wall cling although i have a small feeling Dragon Lunge might allow that.

But Sakurai my stick to FE characters don't wall jump in their games so no wall jumps type of thing.

Characters like Duck Hunt, Little Mac (ironic isn't it), and Cloud wall jump in Smash 4 but they don't wall jump in their own games. Granted, none of the Fire Emblem characters wall jump but considering Corrin is half-dragon, he might be an exception.
Note: I haven't played Final Fantasy 7 so i don't know if Cloud ever wall jumped or did something similar in his game.

 

[OceloT42]

Some of us here think the bite on DFS happens automatically, while other think its a manual input. And then a thought came to me: What if its both? For example, that scene where Falco got hit by DFS in the direct, Falco was close enough so the bite happened automatically. But if your opponent is far away, the bite won't happen unless the player presses the B button. This theory is extremely unlikely though. Even i don't believe it myself.


Hopefully Corrin can wall jump considering he isn't exactly human (well aware that there are some human characters who can wall jump). Or at the very least, a wall cling although i have a small feeling Dragon Lunge might allow that.


Characters like Duck Hunt, Little Mac (ironic isn't it), and Cloud don't wall jump in their games yet they wall jump in Smash 4. Granted, none of the Fire Emblem characters wall jump but considering Corrin is half-dragon, he might be an exception.
Note: I haven't played Final Fantasy 7 so i don't know if Cloud ever wall jumped or did something similar in his game.

Now that I think about it, your theory is the most probable.
You have officially contributed more to this thread than me lol. Congratulations

 

[Armagon]

Now that I think about it, your theory is the most probable.
You have officially contributed more to this thread than me lol. Congratulations

I have? Well thanks. Anyway, the main reason why i said my theory was really unlikely was because i don't see why you would want to use the bite if the opponent isn't near. Unless its part of your plan. Imagine this scenario: You break Wario's shield and he's at 90%. Since Sakurai made a point saying that the full charge bite on DFS is very powerful, you double jump, quickly fire the projectile part of DFS, and because Wario isn't in front of you, the bite, under normal circumstances, wouldn't happen. However, you manually input the bite and began charging it on your way down. You land in front of Wario and after one more second, you release the bite and KO Wario.

 

[OceloT42]

I have? Well thanks. Anyway, the main reason why i said my theory was really unlikely was because i don't see why you would want to use the bite if the opponent isn't near. Unless its part of your plan. Imagine this scenario: You break Wario's shield and he's at 90%. Since Sakurai made a point saying that the full charge bite on DFS is very powerful, you double jump, quickly fire the projectile part of DFS, and because Wario isn't in front of you, the bite, under normal circumstances, wouldn't happen. However, you manually input the bite and began charging it on your way down. You land in front of Wario and after one more second, you release the bite and KO Wario.

I'd do something like that.
After ask this while of Wario biting me, my revenge has come.

 

[meowmere]

A dog with no opposable thumbs grips the wall and walljumps.
Hell villager doesn't even have fingers and his recovery is OP anyways.
Pray for wall jumping Corrin.Pray to Arceus.

IMO, Corrin won't be able to walljump. Why should he? I admit, Smash Bros. has a few flaws in terms of logic *cough* a lot *cough*, but that just doesn't make sense to me.

Some of us here think the bite on DFS happens automatically, while other think its a manual input. And then a thought came to me: What if its both? For example, that scene where Falco got hit by DFS in the direct, Falco was close enough so the bite happened automatically. But if your opponent is far away, the bite won't happen unless the player presses the B button. This theory is extremely unlikely though. Even i don't believe it myself.

Further down you explained why you think your theory is most likely not true, but I thought of it differently: Smash, as most fighting games out there, doesn't like to automate things. You have the choice for everything you do, the game doesn't decide. And that's a good thing. Imagine you paralyzed your opponent and you're right next to him. You could charge the bite, but your enemy doesn't have enough percentage for it to kill. If the game automatically bit in that scenario, you wouldn't get the desired kill. However, if the bite wasn't automatically activated, you could potentially combo your opponent and get the kill this way. I think I explained this in a way that's well understandable.

But remember the dragonstone gives him a huge defense boost while lower his speed and since kamui looks like used to dragon power we can expect either 2 things
1 some of his dragon moves will be slow
2 some of his dragon moves will give him super/heavy armor (maybe)
Its Just a throught and probably wrong

I think it leads nowhere to try to predict Corrin's stats this way. Of course Sakurai says everything the character would have to offer in Smash is based on Fire Emblem Fates, but I wouldn't bet on this becoming true at all. However, it's pretty much the only approach we have to figure out Corrin's stats right now, so I'm perfectly fine with theories like these. After all, this thread is about discussion as well as speculation.

Oh yeah important question, do you think any if at all, attack will have super armor or at least launch resistance?

*LancerStaff mode activated* I don't think so. I don't think any FE characters have that kind of stuff - if we use that as a comparison. The only situation I could think of where it would make sense for Corrin to have super/heavy armor is during his throws while Corrin is in their dragon form. That doesn't matter in 1v1s though, and I don't know about you guys, but I'm not particularly interested in anything else other than singles.
FYI: One week left till February! What an exciting month in terms of released and such!

 

[Planty]

I don't think any FE characters have that kind of stuff

If Ike is approaching a full charge on eruption, it'll have super armor when he releases it.

Also what does everyone think of Corrin's weight? I imagine he'd be heavy; he is wearing an entire suit of armor.

 

[meleebrawler]

If Ike is approaching a full charge on eruption, it'll have super armor when he releases it.

Also what does everyone think of Corrin's weight? I imagine he'd be heavy; he is wearing an entire suit of armor.

That armour doesn't look particularly heavy, especially considering how he twirls for his dash attack. Not like Ganondorf whose armour visibly restricts movement, or Samus's Power Suit. Really, if you're (potentially) female and Samus isn't your name then midweight is the most you can weigh.

How much does Robin weigh again?

 

[False Sense]

How much does Robin weigh again?

Just slightly less than Mario. Incredibly average.

 

[LordShade67]

How much does Robin weigh again?

95....units(?), if we're going by Smash terms.

 

[OceloT42]

Clouds a light heavyweight tho so keep your hopes up.
Atleast that's what I've been told.

 

[Zult]

IMO, Corrin won't be able to walljump. Why should he? I admit, Smash Bros. has a few flaws in terms of logic *cough* a lot *cough*, but that just doesn't make sense to me.


Further down you explained why you think your theory is most likely not true, but I thought of it differently: Smash, as most fighting games out there, doesn't like to automate things. You have the choice for everything you do, the game doesn't decide. And that's a good thing. Imagine you paralyzed your opponent and you're right next to him. You could charge the bite, but your enemy doesn't have enough percentage for it to kill. If the game automatically bit in that scenario, you wouldn't get the desired kill. However, if the bite wasn't automatically activated, you could potentially combo your opponent and get the kill this way. I think I explained this in a way that's well understandable.


I think it leads nowhere to try to predict Corrin's stats this way. Of course Sakurai says everything the character would have to offer in Smash is based on Fire Emblem Fates, but I wouldn't bet on this becoming true at all. However, it's pretty much the only approach we have to figure out Corrin's stats right now, so I'm perfectly fine with theories like these. After all, this thread is about discussion as well as speculation.


*LancerStaff mode activated* I don't think so. I don't think any FE characters have that kind of stuff - if we use that as a comparison. The only situation I could think of where it would make sense for Corrin to have super/heavy armor is during his throws while Corrin is in their dragon form. That doesn't matter in 1v1s though, and I don't know about you guys, but I'm not particularly interested in anything else other than singles.
FYI: One week left till February! What an exciting month in terms of released and such!

Ike's recovery has armor.

Clouds a light heavyweight tho so keep your hopes up.
Atleast that's what I've been told.

Technically, he's a heavy weight. But he's only 2 more units than Mario. http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Weight

 

[Wolfheart77]

Roy's Up Special (Blazer, is it?) has Super Armor until the first strike. I've powered through hits and retaliated by using it, and even gotten kills that way.

 

[Planty]

Roy's Up Special (Blazer, is it?) has Super Armor until the first strike. I've powered through hits and retaliated by using it, and even gotten kills that way.

It only has armor when it's started on the ground, which is fairly useless because you have better options. Aerial version has no armor, so it can't interrupt combos.

 

[Armagon]

While it would be highly situational, since Corrin has the longest F-Smash that can be angled, do you think Corrin's F-Smash could go through soft platforms such as those in Town and City or Dream Land and potentially hit someone below the platform? Again, this is highly situational and it would probably work 1% of the time (if it even works at all). Also, while it really isn't used that much in competitive matches since there are better approach options, do you think Corrin will be able to crawl?

 

[LancerStaff]

Weight wise, I'm thinking he'll be on the lower end judging from my comparisons to Zelda. He really could be anywhere though... Cloud's at 100, with Mario at 98. For such a scrawny fighter not holding a sword that weighs a ton, probably the upper limit is 96. That's where Pit's at, although Pit's known for literally escaping hell and otherwise taking a lot of hits. On the lower end, Marth's a 90 and Zelda's a 85. Besides Peach at 89 there's actually a gigantic gap between Marth and Zelda... Imo Corrin's going to be in the gap.

Armor wise, probably not any. Swordsmen typically beat out everything with a disjoint already... Armor on normals doesn't really make sense. Specials, maybe. Besides the Pits' side B (which was the most notable aspect of the moves at least until the Dark Pit buff came along) there's Ike's eruption and aether, and Roy's Blazer. Eruption's is highly specific, aether's is good but it's strictly a recovery move, and Roy's is pretty meh because it only works on the ground. Maybe some on Dragon Ascent but that's it.

 

[Brandybuck]

I have? Well thanks. Anyway, the main reason why i said my theory was really unlikely was because i don't see why you would want to use the bite if the opponent isn't near. Unless its part of your plan. Imagine this scenario: You break Wario's shield and he's at 90%. Since Sakurai made a point saying that the full charge bite on DFS is very powerful, you double jump, quickly fire the projectile part of DFS, and because Wario isn't in front of you, the bite, under normal circumstances, wouldn't happen. However, you manually input the bite and began charging it on your way down. You land in front of Wario and after one more second, you release the bite and KO Wario.

I'm not sure if that would work. Just after 6:48 in

,

female Corrin does a mid-air DFS with what looks like a somewhat charged bite, and it looks like charging the bite slows down Corrin's fall. Then again it might be that Corrin was at the apex of her jump or something I'm really quite hopeless at getting anything from videos.

EDIT: Also is it just me or does it look like people Paralyzd with DFS get knockback after a full charge paralysis wears off? Female Corrin jumps past Ryu without attacking but he still gets knocked back and at the beginning of the Castle Seige sequence it looks like female Corrin is in the same paralysis animation as Ryu and she gets knockedback without anyone coming near her. Is that something ZSS' Paralyzer does also?

 

[Athrel]

EDIT: Also is it just me or does it look like people Paralyzd with DFS get knockback after a full charge paralysis wears off? Female Corrin jumps past Ryu without attacking but he still gets knocked back and at the beginning of the Castle Seige sequence it looks like female Corrin is in the same paralysis animation as Ryu and she gets knockedback without anyone coming near her. Is that something ZSS' Paralyzer does also?

not sure about her paralyzer, but her down smash causes knocback after the paralysis and pikachu's custom paralyzing thunder jolt does the same.

 

[Armagon]

EDIT: Also is it just me or does it look like people Paralyzd with DFS get knockback after a full charge paralysis wears off? Female Corrin jumps past Ryu without attacking but he still gets knocked back and at the beginning of the Castle Seige sequence it looks like female Corrin is in the same paralysis animation as Ryu and she gets knockedback without anyone coming near her. Is that something ZSS' Paralyzer does also?

I just now noticed that. When Didd Kong got hit by the uncharged DFS in the direct, he was only pushed back a little bit. But Ryu seems to have gotten hit by a full charge DFS. This leaves us with a question: Can a full charge DFS kill at high percents? After all, considering the properties of DFS's projectile part, Ryu flew a bit far and he was below 100%.

Also, ZSS's paralyzer at full charge doesn't cause knockback. It only pushes them back a little bit.

 

[LancerStaff]

Stun moves are technically just normal moves with jacked up hitstun. (Have to be projectiles due to mechanics.) They still deal knockback and scale like normal moves do, too. Diddy barely moving was a result of the attack doing little knockback and would of acted the same without the stun effect.

DFS killing is possible, if not likely.

 

[ZephyrYoshi]

Stun moves are technically just normal moves with jacked up hitstun. (Have to be projectiles due to mechanics.) They still deal knockback and scale like normal moves do, too. Diddy barely moving was a result of the attack doing little knockback and would of acted the same without the stun effect.

DFS killing is possible, if not likely.

it probably won't kill until very late, like ZSS's dsmash

 

[LancerStaff]

it probably won't kill until very late, like ZSS's dsmash

Then what would be the point of a terribly laggy move that can't be followed up on? If Ryu was at 0% and the move has a ton of growth (and there's a lot of moves built like this too) then it'd work out... Assuming that's even max charge.

I mean, I'm still not seeing how it's supposed to be possible for Corrin to follow-up on the move, much less even use it outside of a FFA.

 

[ZephyrYoshi]

Then what would be the point of a terribly laggy move that can't be followed up on? If Ryu was at 0% and the move has a ton of growth (and there's a lot of moves built like this too) then it'd work out... Assuming that's even max charge.

I mean, I'm still not seeing how it's supposed to be possible for Corrin to follow-up on the move, much less even use it outside of a FFA.

because it can be followed up on. Corrin did the full animation for an n-air before the stun ended, and this was after an unnecessary bite.

Why would the move have such long range if it couldn't be followed up on outside of the bite?

 

[Mr_Kreep3r]

because it can be followed up on. Corrin did the full animation for an n-air before the stun ended, and this was after an unnecessary bite.

Why would the move have such long range if it couldn't be followed up on outside of the bite?

Technically Corrin Nair'd in place so you would have to calculate dash speed from corrin to ryu jumpsquat frames then Fair's frames and if the hit box can reach... Marth and Metaknight fake sword trails. But like few have stated the Para's knockback leaves you in little hit stun as you get launched so it's possible kinda like ZSS, but her gun has less lag...so I don't know.

I feel like DFS will be best as off stage pressure and hopefully shield pressure. (Lets pray full charge bite breaks shields)

 

[Zult]

I'm thinking Corrin will be faster than we think because of the paralyzer. It would be completely stupid for there to be a move that stuns with absolutely no follow ups.

Then what would be the point of a terribly laggy move that can't be followed up on? If Ryu was at 0% and the move has a ton of growth (and there's a lot of moves built like this too) then it'd work out... Assuming that's even max charge.

I mean, I'm still not seeing how it's supposed to be possible for Corrin to follow-up on the move, much less even use it outside of a FFA.

I'm not understanding why you use logic to say how Corrin might be bad, but you completely avoid logic when it will benefit Corrin. I do not understand. Also, I must have missed the post of you comparing Corrin to Zelda because I see zero similarities. And if I have to hear you validate one of your reasons because "it would make sense cause FFA" one more time I'm gonna go insane.

 

[Planty]

Also, I must have missed the post of you comparing Corrin to Zelda

I think he compares them because they're both slow characters with powerful moves.

What he forgets is that Zelda has to use her terrible mobility to get in your face to deal damage, which isn't feasible. Corrin can just F-smash you from halfway across the stage whenever he wants, and he might even stay safe while doing so.

 

[alguidrag]

Well, i main Robin so be slow is not even close to be a problem in my tatics, i only want some kill power and a quick move

 

[Nu~]

We don't even know if Corrin is actually slow or not. We can't gauge run speed from a 30 fps trailer.

Why are we still hanging tightly to this false belief?

 

[Planty]

We don't even know if Corrin is actually slow or not. We can't gauge run speed from a 30 fps trailer.

Why are we still hanging tightly to this false belief?

He looks really slow. That's why. You can't get an exact number, but you could get an idea.

We don't have exact numbers for D-tilt, but we know it's fast. We don't have exact numbers for D-smash but it looks slow. We don't have exact numbers for jab, but it looks like it'll have good startup. We don't have exact numbers for his mobility stats, but he looks slow.

I don't know how slow, but at least below average. I'll honestly be shocked if he's a fast character, just from a design perspective. It looks like he was meant to have burst mobility options in Dragon Lunge, Dragon Lunge kicks and Bair, not amazing raw stats.

 

[OceloT42]

I doubt Corrin will have slow speed. All fire Emblem characters excepting Robin have a good run speed.
If Robin had a good run speed his combo ability would be ridiculous, but it didn't look like that's the case for Corrin.
Also doesn't ROB have burst mobility but reasonable speed?

 

[Nu~]

He looks really slow. That's why. You can't get an exact number, but you could get an idea.

Perspective is far too subjective to say this. To me, he looks very quick.

 

[Planty]

Also doesn't ROB have burst mobility but reasonable speed?

ROB is on the slower end. His Bair takes ages to push him forward, I would hardly call it burst mobility.

Perspective is far too subjective to say this. To me, he looks very quick.

Fair enough. Looks like we'll have to wait and see.

 

[Andrew McKernan]

This is pure speculation, but I would imagine that he has a similar speed to Marth/Lucina.