Move Set Discussion - MOVE OF THE DAY = Dair

[3GOD]

In this thread, I would like to devote one day to discuss the ins and outs of each move in Wario's arsenal. I will pick a new move to discuss each day, and post my comments as well as some data for that move. After discussing the move with other Wario players (you), I will post a summary of each move in this first post. After a month or so, we should have a pretty thorough discussion for each move.

Today's move is Dair - DISCUSS

Dair:
Maximum Damage: 17%
First Attack Frame: Frame 9
Landing Lag: 19 Frames
Knockback: KO’s Mario at ~170% (at the center of FD with no DI)

 

[Crooked Crow]

As a recovery, it alone is pretty pathetic. It has very limited offensive use due to it's small range, and falling + landing lag if you miss. It's risky to use because it's so easily punishable. It hits multiple times and the knockback isn't that great, and it's very possible for your opponent to DI out of it. Only the very last hit of the up+b will send them far away, but it won't kill until.. I'm guessing around 150%.
I'm pretty sure that if you manage to land all of the hits, it does a nice 19% damage. I guess it's a decent move to use out of shield if they are REALLY close to you. But forward smash out of shield is a much more better option.
Landing with this moves feels so rewarding for me.

As a recovery it's terrible. It doesn't go too far and it doesn't auto-sweetspot the edge so you can actually get edgeguarded, Melee style. Luckily, you shouldn't have to use it too much because Wario floats in the air like a feather. On a lot of occasions, you can just float your way back to the edge, and your double jump is great. You also have your AMAZING bike (side+b) recovery which should bring you back all the time. I won't go into much detail with that right now because discussion will be brought up sooner or later.

 

[3GOD]

Wario Corkscrew (Up-B):
Maximum Damage: 20%
First Attack Frame: Frame 6
Knockback: KO’s Mario at 139% (at the center of FD with no DI)

The Wario Corkscrew (Up-B) has some good properties, yet seems to remain unused by most Wario players (myself included). I suppose the big issue with the Up-B is that you are left in a vulnerable falling state after the move finishes. However, I think Wario's ability to quickly DI toward a ledge might help negate this a little bit assuming that the final hit of the attack connects with the opponent.

All in all, this move does have some good things going for it, but they are probably not good enough to take the risk of being vulnerable for so long afterwards. One good aspect of this move is the fact that it's fast; in fact, it's Wario's fastest option out of shield (tied with Shield Grab). Another good thing about this move is the fact that it can deal out 20% damage. This is like a smash attack in terms of damage, but again, the risk of using this move as an attack is large.

Of course, like most characters, the Up-B is Wario's "recovery move." It's rarely needed though considering his other great recovery options (Bike). It doesn't sweet spot the ledge automatically as well as other recovery moves, but if you are near the end of the move, Wario will latch on quickly.

 

[PKboy89]

I'm pretty sure we all agree that its a ****ty recovery move, but still, its a recovery...whenever your bike doesn't give you the boost you need, the corkscrew is always there...its not great, but its still part of his recovery, giving Wario a third midair boost, thats amazing if you ask me...

I usually use to catch edgehoggers offguard...if they're stupid enough to try and edgehog me when I'm already above the stage on my bike...but it can be suprising against someone hanging on a ledge, and it does good damage still...

And if you play with items, its a good move to get the smash ball with, you gotta have good aim, but still a good move.

 

[PUDGE]

OMG ok first off, corkscrew is amazing, iff it wasnt for corkscrew u could never get off the stage and beat ur opponent til there towards the bottom bike back up and corkscrew for the save, i kno wario is all about pressure, and for him to have the guts to fall deep from the stage and beat down ur opponent and b able to make it back up is ridiculous, many occasions i am tempted and proceed wih bites off the stage followed by bike, which wont get me back up but corkscrew right after will

edit: just saying it in a way that makes it look like a great aspect if u were to chase far off, but other than that i would agree with u guys on how " bad " it is

 

[3GOD]

OMG ok first off, corkscrew is amazing, iff it wasnt for corkscrew u could never get off the stage and beat ur opponent til there towards the bottom bike back up and corkscrew for the save, i kno wario is all about pressure, and for him to have the guts to fall deep from the stage and beat down ur opponent and b able to make it back up is ridiculous, many occasions i am tempted and proceed wih bites off the stage followed by bike, which wont get me back up but corkscrew right after will

edit: just saying it in a way that makes it look like a great aspect if u were to chase far off, but other than that i would agree with u guys on how " bad " it is

True, it does really allow Wario to go just about any distance away from the stage (right up to the blast zone) and still make it back since he has the Bike and the Up-B if he needs it.

 

[PhantomX]

Yeah... it's not very good... the only time I'll pull it out is if I can't quite recover w/ just the bike jump and DJ... and I'll try to hit edgeguarders w/ it and then di back to the edge. The only other time I find a use for it is if I have a pretty sizeable lead and just want to extend a combo.

 

[Goochf1111]

so i have to admit, as a wario mainer, i use corkscrew the least of any of his attacks. I prefer to not use it even for my recovery unless i have to. Maybe I am myopic, but i find it far too risky. offensively, I have never dared used it over super armor F-Smash, or super fast D-smash. I will try to use it, but i am pretty sure it will lead me to get wrecked. great thread BTW.

 

[Popertop]

Actually, doesn't Wario have four midair boosts if you count the waft?
Granted you only get a decent one every minute or so, but that's still worth noting in my book.
Combo enemy off the ledge, bait air dodge and punish with waft while recovering at the same time.
Does that work?

 

[PhantomX]

Actually, doesn't Wario have four midair boosts if you count the waft?
Granted you only get a decent one every minute or so, but that's still worth noting in my book.
Combo enemy off the ledge, bait air dodge and punish with waft while recovering at the same time.
Does that work?

Yes... hell, half the time you don't even need to bait an air dodge or combo them, you can kill them mid recovery w/ the waft.

 

[Popertop]

O.O'

*goes to practice Wario before the next tourney*

 

[Ruuku]

At low percentage sometimes I randomly do dair->up B. I don't really do it in tournaments though.

 

[3GOD]

Nair:
Maximum Damage: 13% (first hit 9%, second hit 4%)
First Attack Frame: Frame 4
Landing Lag: 10 Frames
Knockback: KO’s Mario at 165% (at the center of FD with no DI)

The Nair is Wario's quickest aerial attack, with the initial hitbox coming out in only 4 frames. Not only is it very quick initially, it also has two hitboxes and stays out a fairly long time. Thus, if someone shields/airdodges the first hitbox, they may still get hit by the second hitbox.

The knockback of the Nair isn't stellar, but it's great for off-stage chasing especially if your other aerials may be suffering from diminishing returns. I'm not sure exactly how the landing lag compares to that of Wario's other aerial attacks yet, but it's not a huge problem in general since you can attack and then move away from the opponent to land safely.

I actually have begun to prefer Nair over Fair in many instances because of the second hitbox and long lasting attack.

 

[PhantomX]

Nair is love... when you're pressuring an opponent, many times you can hit them w/ 3 or 4 nairs consecutively, b/c it comes out so fast and gives them little time to think/react. It's also THE aerial of choice for gimping. Fair > Nair = sex. Really, I think it's my favorite aerial.

 

[PUDGE]

nair becomes predictable like fair, reason being is ur opponent wil get used to gettin hit by the second hit box, knowing that they can shield longer and then grab u whereever u land, no matter how much movement u have in the air u will get hit UNLESS!!! u decide to back out after first hit box KNOWING ur opponent is gonna shield the whole thing, its more like both players are playign mindgames on eachother thinking to themselves ok whos gonna do what first and how to punish right after

edit thats groudn game, but in the air, it gets a little harder aka easier to use and realy good, basically agreeing with u guys lol

 

[Admiral Pit]

N-air is one of my primary moves. I use it as I give pressure to the enemy. The sound it makes is pleasant to my ears, reminds me of some balloon enemy or something.
It is enjoyable, and it looks like Wario is skydiving when he has his Warioware costume on.

 

[Christopher Rodriguez]

Nair is downright amazing.. It combos extremely well, although it can be tough to get SHed, you can just fulljump it with another aerial to add some devastating pressure. A must-use for ANY Wario mainer, Dair isn't good enough for everything.

Also, its too good to nair when you win a match. The sound effect goes all slow and everything xP It makes an awesome sound.

 

[Sans Glutin]

Nair is like a sex-skydive. It stays out for a long time and it is a really fast aerial if you SHFF it. Great at comboing and edgeguarding (fair, jump, rising nair ftw).

 

[Ryan-K]

Nair is awesome. It has little lag, has a small hitbox above wario, good hitbox below and in front of him. The second hit is weak so you can follow up with grab or fsmash usually, and it's good for edgeguarding since the hitbox is wide (it's like wario's whole body length), lasts long, and is 2 hits. Also at low percents the first hit combos into the second which allows for a follow up.

Also 3god how did you find the frame data? Did you use an action replay, find it somewhere, or count/ estimate manually?

 

[Tyr_03]

Hmm when I tested Nair in training mode CPU set to level 9 I got that it killed Mario from the center of FD at 182%, second hit at 361%. I'm guessing either you had him set to control to avoid any DI or airdodging or else it's a trajectory issue based on at what level Nair was initiated.

 

[3GOD]

Also 3god how did you find the frame data? Did you use an action replay, find it somewhere, or count/ estimate manually?

I capture the video and then "deinterlace" it to get back to 60 frame per second. I do several tests to make sure I haven't dropped a frame or something funny like that. Then I count frames in Virtual Dub.

Hmm when I tested Nair in training mode CPU set to level 9 I got that it killed Mario from the center of FD at 182%, second hit at 361%. I'm guessing either you had him set to control to avoid any DI or airdodging or else it's a trajectory issue based on at what level Nair was initiated.

I don't work in training mode usually. I just set up a 3 player free for all and have Fox laser Mario up to a testing percentage. Then I Nair him with Wario. The Mario player does no input at all (just a dummy controller). I always make sure my moves are not stale by killing off Wario between each test. The main difference is probably DI on the part of the CPU in training mode.

 

[Blue sHell]

Ooo, awesome thread 3GOD!

Nair is great in the sense that it comes out faster than most other aerials. In tight situations(like right after you shield or spotdodge and attack) nair could be initiated. Nair is also hard to punish because it hit twice. If somone spotdodges, they will spotdodge the first hit and then get hit by the second hit. It also has the smallest landing lag out of all of Wario's aerials so if they get hit by that second hit because they let go of their shield or they spotdodged when you're already near the ground, you could followup with a fsmash or grab or jab, or bite. It's actually quite nice.

Also it's a great edgegaurd move because of its two hits. It's the gimp machine. Fear the bellyflop. It's out for you.


@3GOD, if I give you full credit, could I put these %s and frame date inside the Wario guide?

 

[Doctor Destructo]

3GOD really goes above and beyond to get us this sort of data. Here, have my Animated GIF of approval, 3GOD.

 

[Ramses99]

how do you keep being so awesome doctor destructo?

 

[Doctor Destructo]

how do you keep being so awesome doctor destructo?

Hey, this isn't about me. This is about 3GOD and the hard work he puts into giving us quality information on our favorite arsehole plumber.

 

[PhantomX]

Actually, I think that's the first time Destructo has failed

Personally, I'm also frozen in awe at how much effort 3GOD puts into this:

As is Wario, apparently :D

 

[3GOD]

Usmash:
Maximum Damage: 16%
First Attack Frame: Frame 11
Knockback: KO’s Mario at 129% (at the center of FD with no DI)

The Usmash is not necessarily a great KO move, but can be pretty handy for combos especially when the opponent has low damage. My personal favorite (though almost certainly not a true combo) is Chomp to Dash Attack Canceled Usmash (Boost Smash seems to be the popular name for it).

This brings to light perhaps the most unique feature of the Usmash - the ability to slide a long distance quickly via the Boost Smash. Wario is not particularly nimble on the ground, so every little trick to boost his speed helps. With the boost smash, Wario can cover about half of the main platform of Battlefield at a good speed. While I don't really recommend this as an approach (maybe on rare occasions), it can really help follow up from some throws and other attacks.

@3GOD, if I give you full credit, could I put these %s and frame date inside the Wario guide?

Sure I'll be glad to let you use them in the guide.

3GOD really goes above and beyond to get us this sort of data. Here, have my Animated GIF of approval, 3GOD.

Thanks...that means a lot coming from a doctor . By the way, can you prescribe anything for seizures induced by your sig?

 

[Doctor Destructo]

Actually, I think that's the first time Destructo has failed

I made that .GIF myself, thank you very much.

Also, if you don't like the combination of Wario and Wayne's World, then I'm taking you off my Christmas Card list.

 

[PhantomX]

Eh... Upsmash isn't a particular favorite of mine... I'll boost smash occasionally after bites, or at random for mindgames, but I usually won't use it outside of that... it would be more useful if it had the sucking properties of most of the other spinning smashes, but it doesn't

It's good to throw out against spacies though, especially those that love their shorthopped drills.

 

[Wolfgang457]

Up Smash is definitely a cool move. It's alright for up close damage but the boost smash really helps it stand out. The boost smash itself is good for surprise approaches but is best in moderation as to avoid becoming predictable and loses its edge. After just recently getting the timing down just right for it I wonder if it has any interesting synergy with glide-tossing. I was gonna test this at not late at night but has anyone possibly tried this with any interesting results?

 

[DMG]

Lol Destructo you must have a lot of time on your hands to find/make stuff like that. And unlike PhantomX, I do wanna be on your Christmas Card list. Just don't send me a card like that.

On topic: I rarely use Upsmash unless for the aforementioned reasons. I sometimes do it on characters that slide back far in their shields and try to use it whenever they are close to an edge or the end of a platform. Other than that, there almost always seems to be a better option than Upsmash.

 

[Sans Glutin]

To me, Upsmash almost seems like a Dsmash in the way that you can use it OoS. I think that it can become one of Wario's OoS options, replacing his horrible dsmash in a way. Definitely not his best OoS option but perhaps something to think about.

I rarely use Usmash, only occasionally in combos and OoS; it's saving grace for me is Wario's ability to Boost Smash. This gives him a nice fast ground approach (faster and less predictable than the bike) that is wonderful to use after the Dair - Bite combo.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The u-smash is pretty pathetic if that last hit doesn't connect. I hardly ever use it since the u-air is better for making vertical KOs.

 

[handsockpuppet]

Utilt>Usmash.

'nuff said

 

[PUDGE]

ok, what ive noticed is that WARIO!!! is a boxer, hes got the gloves, hes got the punches, and most of all, hes got no range. every day wario has to work his way in or he cant do squat, unless he goes harley davidson on poeples @$$es, if u space correctly, and ur opponent is not expecting it and is thinking, " i got this foo on lock" boost smash ftw. besides up smash there are the SH dodges and what not but the most unpredictable move at the start is the boost smash, yes it can get predictable but that one shot might give u the edge to lead to combo finishers. in a different sense up smash cant be DIed out of when , say ur opponent is right by u, your both not doing anythin, if there glove or hand is inside ur body on the game screen it wont get DIed out of. sometimes i even Dair and Usmash. instead of bite, just opens up more air game, i kno the combo of Dair bite boost smash is awesome, i use it alot but u gotta mix it up to c how others can b comboed, for instance if u get Dair and upsmash on a heavy chances are they have low dmg and u can actualy lead with an up tilt, hell maybe even a full waft

 

[Ryan-K]

I usually use usmash if they're above me at a low percent like if I land a uair at 0 or something usmash does alot of damage.

Also boost smash is its best use imo.

It's not a very good move on it's own but the mulitple hits is pretty good for shield.

 

[Sans Glutin]

This thread needs to be stickied.

 

[Christopher Rodriguez]

I throw it in there sometimes for mix-up, its good for early percentages on some of the heavier characters (leading up to uair/chomp)

 

[3GOD]

Ftilt:
Maximum Damage:

Up-angled – 15%
Horizontal – 14%
Down-angled – 13%
​

First Attack Frame: Frame 14 (for all angles)

Knockback:

Up-angled – KO’s Mario at 111% (at the center of FD with no DI)
Horizontal – KO’s Mario at 121% (at the center of FD with no DI)
Down-angled – KO’s Mario at 131% (at the center of FD with no DI)​

The Ftilt is Wario's most ranged attack with decent damage and knockback. It's not particularly fast, but it can be handy particularly after landing with a little space between you and your opponent (enough space to avoid shield grabs). I cannot figure out exactly why, but against many opponents, you can just empty SH or SH Air Dodge freely to setup the spacing for the Ftilt. Many people just avoid approaching Wario if he's in the air, giving you free time to space yourself for the Ftilt.

The startup time for this attack seems to catch opponents off guard somehow, especially if you've been applying a lot of pressure during the match. Also, if you're Fsmash is suffering from diminishing returns, you've got a decent KO move in the Ftilt if you can land it. If you're using it for the KO, try to use the Up-angled Ftilt since it KOs about 10% sooner.

 

[Christopher Rodriguez]

Probably my least used move, I used to use it a ton when Brawl first came out. The only time I pull it off is accidentally instead of fsmash, or after a dthrow. It doesn't matter since it usually hits anyways. It might be me but I think a down angled ftilt hits some recoveries on the ledge; I've killed a marth that way before. I'm not entirely sure but just saying.