Mother's Boys - The Ness and Lucas FAQ

[Earthbound360]

lol okay then
You'll get it eventually. It comes naturally like L cancelling once you can do it.

 

[Recognize]

This is one of the best guides Ive read yet, I only use Ness as a secondary but I found this very entertaining. Keep up the good work.

 

[eHerbieInReverse]

Mmm, lovely.

Let me just add that PK Wind/Psychokinesis is, in fact useful. However, an offensive move, it is not. Amazingly useful techniques are:

- Activate PK Magnet at the base of Pikachu's Thunder (Pillar), and release just as it finishes. This should push Pikachu away just at the right distance for a taste of the tip of Ness' bat.

- PK Magnet one of Pikachu's short hopped Thunder Jolt Balls and release right when he lands. Once again, tipper potential.

- Activate PK Magnet in the air before you land on opponent who is likely to do a smash attack. Release it right when you're about head's level of the opponent and (something about the falling properties PK Wind that I've tested to be more efficient) they will again, slide back enough to hit with a tipper or a PK Fire; which leads into a tipper anyways haha.

- Definitely, use the Falling PK Wind (FPK Wind), on opponents near the edge. Not only does FPK Wind protect you from anticipated smash attacks because of the stall effect, but when used against an opponent close to the edge, they have a very high chance of being caught off guard and performing an aerial instead of a smash attack as they fall to their doom. You be creative from there.

- Activate and quickly release PK Magnet as someone rolls or airdodges past you. This usually throws them off guard (mindgamesssss.) and they may perform an spacing-underestimated attack and miss you, or be put into range for a PK Fire or both.

These are just SOME techniques that I've used. Overall, the policy in mind is to rarely use PK Magnet for the purpose of PK Wind. And when you do use PK Magnet, try to anticipate if there is a purpose for timing a specific release, if not, release it when you can and continue about the battle. Treat PK Wind as more of a luxury of PK Magnet until you get used to it more. Falling PK Winds are still pretty useful to me [:

P.S. I have a youtube video that shows a couple of uses, though it's not focused on it. But, I am planning on having some videos down by the end of this week, seriously this time, that will focus on PK Wind. Subtle beauty it is, subtle beauty.

 

[3Years]

wow luved this guide man good job i learned a couple good things i can use like the yoyo as a spike i didnt no that i gotta try it out....

 

[Aevin]

3Years: It's tricky to time since opponents have brief invincibility when landing on the ledge, but it's fun if they try to camp you and oh so satisfying when it works.

HerbieInReverse: I'll have to try some of that out. It sounds pretty dangerous ... though that's part of what makes it fun!

 

[3Years]

haha yeah it seems pretty difficult...havent had time 2 work on it yet but ill let u no how it goes if i do ^_^

 

[eHerbieInReverse]

HerbieInReverse: I'll have to try some of that out. It sounds pretty dangerous ... though that's part of what makes it fun!

Quite so haha. It becomes a gamble if you don't know when to use it. But yeah, so far, it looks like it works best on Pikachu, Lucario, Falco, Mario and Luigi. I have yet to test it on many of the other characters. But yeah, it's pretty rewarding and surprisingly advantageous for tippers and PK Fires; pretty much anything.

 

[flyingpork002]

whose final smash is better

 

[3Years]

final smash???

nobody uses items sry bud

 

[eHerbieInReverse]

final smash???

nobody uses items sry bud

Pfft. hahaha. Nice

But ummm, I'd say that Ness' Final Smash is better in situations such as edge guarding but I think Lucas' is more reliable in general.

 

[3Years]

Pfft. hahaha. Nice

But ummm, I'd say that Ness' Final Smash is better in situations such as edge guarding but I think Lucas' is more reliable in general.

^_^


the last time i used items was wen me n gimpy were really bored

edit: i did use items a couple times wen brawl 1st came out

 

[gaborap]

wow... killer guide

 

[PK~Master]

One word describes what you typed. WOW. It looks like you really like the PK boys.
You posted an extremely detailed and accurate description of their talents. Nice job.

NESS ROX!

 

[Airgemini]

This must've taken forever to write.
Nice guide.

 

[Negi-Kun]

NESS FTW! He's way better in Brawl than he was in Melee. Great great great FAQ man.

 

[Aevin]

Updated with some advanced tactic information--mostly magnet canceling and some embellishment. Also filled out the character match up section. For now, just a few tips on some of the match-ups I don't see as much, but I'll try and add more specific information later. If any of you have suggestions, please let me know.

 

[Earthbound360]

Death grabbing is only possible by Marth and Charizard (On Ness) for an infinite. It's actually not infinite if you DI away every time he releases you. He also cant finish it with an fsmash from what I've heard. DI away and mash away at the jump buttons. This increases your chances of escaping with a jump making the death grab useless. Then when you are released, as soon as possible, do a spot dodge to dodge any attack.

This works vs. anything from what I've heard and tested. The only thing that's not possible to dodge is Marth's grab and Charizard. With this method, no other character can repeatedly grab Ness or Lucas or chain attack. (So says Ulevo)

Thank goodness.

Because of this,I would change the PT matchup to Lucas, unless they are deciding not to death grab you.

Also, PSIM cancel IS possible with the usmash, and even PKT. If you dont have tap jump on, it's still possible, you just have to press jump before PKT.
So you are holding down B, press jump, then quickly press Up and A or B.

 

[Aevin]

Thanks for the tips, EB360.

Magnet Cancel: Suddenly I get why this works. I noticed before when I was tryiing to repeatedly ground cancel Lucas's up air that when you do it quickly enough you smash instead of jump. I assume the same principle is at work here, simply jumping to cancel the magnet but then smashing/PKT before you actually leave the ground. I just didn't realize you had to jump first and wondered why none of the other smashes worked out of it.

As for the death grabs ... I've done my own experiments against Marth, but the escapes seemed in no way reliable. They seemed completely dependent on luck, and the odds of escaping seemed low to impossible at certain damage percentages. If there's a better resource for fully explaining this than Nessbounder's, could someone provide me with a link?

 

[Earthbound360]

Yu yup, that's jump cancelling for you. That's why it works out of shield also. After abosirbing something, the PSIM acts like a shield since you can spotdodge and jump and stuff.

Marth is inescapable of course, but Im just saying other characters are escapable (minus PT for Ness ). I dont have the link, it's just something we gathered over time. Just DI and time a dodge. If you want, I can give you a link to Ulevo's major finding that Ness and Lucas cant be grabbed or attacked after a grab release. that's why Marth CANNOT fsmash you afterwards.

 

[Aevin]

I hate to put you to the trouble, but that would be very helpful. ... 'Cause I get forward smashed.

 

[_clinton]

Is it odd that I've gotten out of Marth's PSI lock with Ness before?

 

[Earthbound360]

You either DIed the right way ad Marth didnt move or the Marth player sucked at button mashing.
If neither of the above happened, it could be another one of those lucky breaks OR a myth like escape.

 

[Luke_the_Pikachu]

Well, not really, no. Not unless it was one of the best Marth players. Or if it was on Wi-Fi, the button-delay or lag might've got 'im. Or her.

 

[Aevin]

Just a quick update to add Ness's Double Aerial Shuffle. Already discussed in EB360's guide, but it's awesome and I wanted to have it here, too.

 

[Earthbound360]

Cool Aevin

I think you may want to add some of these tips I posted in some other thread to cope with the deathgrab

1. Counterpick stages with slants, many platforms, special stage hazards, or that change quickly. Pirate Ship is good, and so is norfair.

2. Know the quickest way to grab break. Spin control stick and tap the C-stick rapidly in many direction WITH letting it go back to neutral after every input.

3. Know that a jump break is done by breaking out of a grab while holding up.

4. Stay near the edge of the stage, but avoid being grabbed with Marth facing central.

5. Always DI back if you are grab released on the ground, and remember to time a spot dodge ASAP of given the chance.

I also think you should add ledgewhipping in sometime for LUcas. It's very useful and a great edgeguard. It works pretty much on anyone who would normally sweetspot the edge or go just above it (Wolf, Falco, Ness, Mario, etc.)

 

[Iron Mushroom]

Cool Aevin

I think you may want to add some of these tips I posted in some other thread to cope with the deathgrab



I also think you should add ledgewhipping in sometime for LUcas. It's very useful and a great edgeguard. It works pretty much on anyone who would normally sweetspot the edge or go just above it (Wolf, Falco, Ness, Mario, etc.)

So many complex thingys

 

[paper otavio]

On the first post, I am pretty sure the damage on Ness' PKT is wrong.......
I've seen it do 12........



I think........

 

[Man of Popsicle]

PK Flash (Neutral B) - (9-37%)
A green projectile which can be steered left or right. It explodes in a storm of electricity when the B button is released, and the longer it is out, the more powerful it becomes. At full power, it easily KO's opponents. Uncharged, it sends a quick burst above Ness's head which can be used for protection or juggling.

I discovered PK Flash can actually do up to 38% damage. Yeah.

 

[Vorguen]

It doesn't necessarily do 38% damage, Brawl actually records decimals in percentages so PK flash for example can do 37.6%

and the person you use it on can have 12.8% (which records simply as 12% and not 12.8%, Brawl doesn't round up)

Therefore it would seem that it does 38% when in reality it does not.

You can see this easily with Falco's lasers, as they degenerate, some will do more damage than others.

I don't know the exact numbers but it just for example it would look like this:

Laser 1- 4%
Laser2- 3%
Laser3- 3%
Laser4- 2%
Laser5- 3%


That's the easiest proof to that theory, there is a more in-depth post somewhere else about this if you really care that bad though. Haha.

 

[:mad:]

A quick question about Ness's Pummel, if anyone can answer.
Why is it that Ness's first Pummel does no damage?

 

[Gaussis]

Ness's pummels always do 1% damage >_>.

 

[PKNintendo]

Ness's pummels always do 1% damage >_>.

No. They do 1 % but can decay into decimals. (**** Sakurai)

So sometimes the damage isn't even shown.

 

[Gaussis]

Well, I've always had a pummel do 1% up until the 8th or 9th (which shouldn't really happen to Ness). And even then, it wasn't consistent.

@Straked: To answer you question, it is that moves can have decimal values.

 

[Earthbound360]

It's about decaying moves, but I'm left curious as to why the first pummel does the least while the following do more. Shouldnt that be reversed?

 

[xoxokev]

It's about decaying moves, but I'm left curious as to why the first pummel does the least while the following do more. Shouldnt that be reversed?

Well... if the pummel is stale... it's damage can be as little as .5%... meaning you would have to do 2 pummels in order to get 1%. Also, just something cool to know: I read somewhere that if you combo a certain move into itself, it only counts toward the stale move list once until you stop hitting with the same move

 

[Earthbound360]

Yes but how often will the pummel be that stale to drop 50% of its damage at the very START of the grab? Before then, you probably would have used another move to refresh the pummel somewhat.

 

[:mad:]

That's interesting to know, because I found it useless to even rack up that extra 1/2 %, it's just not worth the risk of them releasing.
Thanks, guys.

 

[Earthbound360]

But it can be used to refresh ur bthrow's power.

 

[jibbyjaont]

Has anybody seen the Ness yoyo spike video? If you have, can you tell me if this is a reliable way of edgeguarding?

 

[FireKirby7]

IMO, the Yo-Yo Spike isn't very reliable. It only works when their edge invincibility frames wear off. But once you see that, go for for a Yo-Yo Spike!! It's worth a try and it couldn't hurt you.