Monster Mafia - Game Over

[mentosman8]

And, if you want a more solid defense than that, I've already pointed out the reason I didn't catch Rockin's claim: My mind was on the second personality. Also, as I stated yesterday, I wasn't pushing for your lynch, merely questioning some things you had said that I took note of once BunBun flip was shown. That was the first useful flip of the game, and you can't honestly be surprised I would question some things from that time after seeing it. Not only that, but if you're going to call me scummy for bringing up comments from earlier in the game(after the first flip that was any use), then you do realize you're doing the EXACT. SAME. THING. In your entire last 3 posts, right? Just making sure we're on the same page here that you shouldn't be saying something is scummy when you're doing the same thing, cuz, really, it makes you look scummy.

 

[Omni]

Yeah, uhm, I explained that already. Argue my points, scum.

I will avenge Marshy!

 

[mentosman8]

Also, Omni, you're a freaking idiot if you're going to put a town doublevoter at L-2 in a situation where scum can likely quicklynch off that, because you're suspicious over absolutely terrible reasons. Not only that, but I can already tell you plan to use scum not pouncing as an argument against me when GUESS WHAT? It's 5v2 at worst, which means no intelligent scum WOULD try to quicklynch, because they would reveal themselves going into tomorrow with town still holding majority. You're really reaching for a case Omni, and you're planning on adding a piece to it that means absolutely nothing. I'm seriously beginning to wonder if my questioning of you should have had more pushing than it did, that entire set of posts just looked terrible.

 

[Omni]

And, if you want a more solid defense than that, I've already pointed out the reason I didn't catch Rockin's claim: My mind was on the second personality. Also, as I stated yesterday, I wasn't pushing for your lynch, merely questioning some things you had said that I took note of once BunBun flip was shown. That was the first useful flip of the game, and you can't honestly be surprised I would question some things from that time after seeing it. Not only that, but if you're going to call me scummy for bringing up comments from earlier in the game(after the first flip that was any use), then you do realize you're doing the EXACT. SAME. THING. In your entire last 3 posts, right? Just making sure we're on the same page here that you shouldn't be saying something is scummy when you're doing the same thing, cuz, really, it makes you look scummy.

So like how about you comment on the remarks I made about you never saying anything about Rockin up until that point? Also, you making that argument against me was just a small point. Actually probably the smallest since I considered you scummy for thousands of reasons including:

1.) Actively lurking with Rockin D1.
2.) Not scumhunting much at all.
3.) Never applying pressure on Rockin. Never questioning Rockin. Hell, never talking to Rockin.
4.) Also, Rockin never having anything to say about you. However, he says a lot about the rest of the cast.

I trust Kevin, Mac, Cacti, and Gheb. You and Vyse are the only two I'm worried about so either you or him can die. Either of which is fine with me.

I've also learned not to trust claims anymore. Removing your claim and your role you are the scummiest person here by far.

 

[mentosman8]

Let's see here:

1. Already explained, but that whole situation took place while I WAS NOT HOME. I threw in my two cents worth when it seemed I still had a chance to make a difference in the game, but A. Most of the posts of yours were already there when I checked, and B. I'm not going to spend hours while I'm out refreshing the thread to make sure there's nothing new I need to post about. If I see something, yay, if not, whatever.

2. You do realize that that argument is null and void because I posted the most thorough case on BunBun right? Yeah, indie doesn't mean I'm not mafia, but you can't say I haven't scumhunted at all when I posted a comprehensive case on someone. Also, how do you know I haven't scumhunted? Just because I don't post every thought that comes to mind doesn't mean I'm not looking for scum.

3. I talked about Rockin multiple times D1, stating that I wasn't really suspicious of him, because quite honestly the case on him was built around a lot of things that would fit with my view of townie Rockin quite well. But yes, I definitely didn't push him at all until near the end of D2 because I was planning to have him counterclaim me in a situation where if a townie were lynched, scum could activate my doublevote and then quicklynch immediately the start of the next day for the win. Definitely a brilliant scum plan, eh? /sarcasm.

Not sure how you expect me to defend Rockin trying to do what scum do and draw connections.

But seriously, my question to you: Knowing I am in fact a doublevoter, why in the hell do you think I would make a plan to purposely get my scum partner lynched in a situation where by not doing so and pushing a townie lynch, scum could have won within minutes of the open of D4?

 

[#HBC | Mac]

mentos who is scum yo?
if vyse is scum and u dont lynch him now were killing yu tomorrow

 

[Omni]

i'll answer your question and respond to your points later, Mentos.

i gotta' find the time to reread once more and find out who your partner is. also want to hear from everyone else.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

this game is already won

 

[mentosman8]

Omni: The ONLY way your theory of me being scum is remotely plausible is if Vyse is my scumpartner, so not sure why it would need a re-read for you to figure out who you think my partner is.

And Mac, I'll be honest that Omni's massive reaching is making me consider a mafia priest. The things I brought up yesterday weren't a huge thing, but now he's just stretching as far as he can for a case on me, which looks worse.

Outside of that, I'm not feeling too bad about yourself or Kevin at the moment, and would say scum is prolly between Vyse/Cacti/Omni/Gheb, but I'm not going to work on the assumption you guys are town to choose a lynch. It's less than a day into D3, and I'm not entirely sure who I feel the play is just yet. We've got two weeks, why are people looking to rush things?

On top of that, if the cop has two reports on living players, or any guilties, it may not be a bad time to claim. Day before likely LYLO if we mislynch, and a couple of reports on living players(even a cop claim and a report on any living player) could be useful(and it's pretty obvious we have one out there seeing as Jungle was a miller)

 

[Omni]

why is it only plausible if Vyse is your scumpartner

 

[#HBC | Mac]

mentos, what percent do you think I am town?

omni i like yur analysis alot, I came to similar conclusions when I reread earlier.

 

[Omni]

btw, the reason why i ask that question, mentos, is because:

-I don't like Rockin's claim because of its unverifiability. I know I didn't use this as a point against junglefever, but Rockin's actually quite good at fake claiming. I recall Nowhere Mafia, wherein he found probably the best fakeclaim he possibly could have for the flavor and sold it, only really failing because he had Eor on his scent.

hmm. here we have Evil Eye (now Vyse) hinting to Rockin's claim being fishy.

hm, interesting how this all builds up, huh?

you being a mafia doublevoter is uncommon. however u being a mafia doublevoter only when its triggered is a lot more plausible and keeps things a bit more balanced wouldnt u agree

 

[mentosman8]

Omni, it's only plausible if Vyse is my partner because he was looking like a very pushable lynch when I swung the vote to Rockin. If he was town, there is absolutely no reason scumtosman would have swung the vote to his partner when there was a perfectly viable townie lynch choice that could have been made which would have won mafia the game. If you consider me a mafia doublevoter, yesterday would have been town's mylo, and if we had lynched a townie Vyse with me as maf it was game. Seeing as he had two votes as of BunBun's kill, it would have been pretty simple for a scumteam including me to swing our votes there and get him killed, leaving today past lylo for town. If Vyse was town, there would have been no reason for me to bus him as we would have had the votes to lynch him, and all it would have taken today was 1 scum voting me, me self-vote/unvote/double-vote townie, then partners pile on same person and it was game. If you consider Vyse town, mafia would have won by this point if I was maf.

Not only that, but that quote you got seems to imply that you think Vyse is a townie, but prior to that you said you were confident in Gheb/Kev/Mac/Cacti which would leave him as scum. Your argument isn't adding up, and it's getting frustrating having to refute points that have pretty much no merit over and over.

Also, I'm an idiot, forgot Cacti claimed cop a long time ago. I forget though, any living reports Cacti?

And now I'm off likely until tomorrow evening.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

asked you a q, mentos

 

[mentosman8]

Oh, and one other thing: if vyse were town and I maf, unless you are to claim Mac as my mafia partner, game would be over right now even if I did bus yesterday.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

why wud game be over? what percent town do you think i am mentos?

 

[Omni]

you seem stressed, mentos.

the post quoting EE is showing that EE/Vyse is scum and slightly connected to Rockin since he makes a point about Rockin have a "fishy" claim. oh, but it's all good now because that fishy claim is going to get CC'ed by Mentosman. rockin was the push D2. at that point, bussing him would look better for you than pushing someone else.

so much omgus you got going, too. you may not like my posts but there's nothing scummy behind it. now you're predicting im a mafia priest? u mad?

you are flailing hard. tell who you think is scum and why. cmon, buddy.

 

[Omni]

Vote: Mentosman

this vote comes off you when i no longer think you're scummy

(which means this vote will probably not come off you)

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Unvote

Gonna read through most recent posts especially from Omni

 

[~ Gheb ~]

He is definitely one of my suspicions, but not sure I want to lynch him just yet. I do believe EE said something about how Rockin needed to die near the end of D1, so I'm not sure I like the idea post Rockin flip.

Even if he said so it doesn't mean that he wanted to lynch him at all. In the end the only thing that matters is that he did go for the NL instead and that he did not vote Rockin at such an important stage of the day. He could've easily make sure that Rockin was getting lynched but he went for the NL instead.

he said rockin was scummy in his bigass post but advocated lynching cacti, gheb, and jf all before him.

There you have it. EE himself said in that post that scum is always looking for the most convenient lynch and he is doing just that in the very same post by voting Cacti and nudging me, JF and BB. Of course he had to mention Rockin somewhere in between so he could draw the "I told you" card in case Rockin flips scum. In his posts he often mentions Rockin as one of his main suspicions but none of his actions substantiate this. He'd always avoid voting for Rockin even when he literally became our best lynch choice.

vyse needs to claim cuz i said so

I support this request. Once Vyse is back he should do a full claim.

EE's first post about the game still seems too townie to me. If he was scum, it would make sense to make a good argument against Bunbun and deem him as scummy. However, Rockin, was like 2nd on his list in terms of scumminess. So I'm feeling a bit hesitant at the moment.

I already responded to a similar point above. Just because he mentions Rockin as one of his suspicions doesn't make him more credible because for all we know that could exactly be his intention. None of his actions show that he was as suspicious of Rockin as he pretended to be.

However, people and things that I like while rereading so far:
Post #131 - I Like Cacti http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8754639&postcount=131

Yes, Cacti is probably a good guy.

Post #157 - I Like Kevin http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8772927&postcount=157

I don't get Kevin as scum either but I wouldn't read too much into what he said. I wouldn't be surprised if he bussed his scumbuddy here.

Also, EE's town vibes were directed toward me, Gheb, Kevin, and Marshy. Considering Marshy flipped town and I like Kevin and I don't dislike Gheb it feels like he's making good reads overall. At least reads similar to mine.

Only the mafia could be able to tell who's mafia and who is not. Giving townies credit is a simple mafia strategy to gain credibility. It could be him making good reads but I have my doubts. If you are making good reads then you use them to find scum, not to point out whom you find particularily town. You're not supposed to spread around who think's town (that'd only paint a target for scum on their backs) unless you want to look trustworthy in those people's eyes.

I'm Starting to like EE/Vyse #492 - http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8880405&postcount=492
Here he continues to peg BB as newb scum. His first "quick hit" was that he doesn't like Rockin's claim (Rockin being scum). He also buys Jungle's claim (who flipped town). Basically, all of EE's points based on flips have been directed accordingly. This was the post where he NL'ed.

Posts can only show so much. The point in this case is that VysEE has never voted for a scumbag at the end of the day and in one particluar case it was up to him to make the final call. His actions simply don't make him any more credible. Buying Jungle's claim to look more townie isn't a big trick when you know that he isn't one of your scumbuddies.

Currently at the 600th post and neither Rockin nor Mentos make any comments towards each other in terms of scumhunting. Neither of the two point fingers at each other, either. They literally have no connection at this point which makes me feel uneasy about Mentos right now.

Indeed I have come to a similar conclusion. This is why after Rockin's flip I'm more suspicious than ever of him for sitting on BB for a while and just ignoring Rockin. Mentos played a very similar game in FFVII and MegaMafia where he pretty much ignored his scumbuddies over the course of the whole game and never interacted with them. In this game he never mentioned Rockin at all until about mid D2 and he also never had any interactions with VysEE, which leads me to believe (amont other reasons) that mentos and vyse are the remaining scumbags.

The verdict? I think Mentos is the play today. I think that Mentosman isn't lying about his character being Wolfgang Grimer. I'm going to ALSO assume that Mafia weren't given safe-claims SINCE Rockin decided to claim Wolfgang Grimer and he got "CC'ed". If it was a safe claim, then Mentos would not be CC'ing at the moment obviously.

I don't see why Mentos wouldn't CC the safeclaim of his doomed scumbuddy if it makes people reconsider his allignment. The whole CC scenario looks very staged to me. I don't think Mentos ever was at L/2 until toDay so why'd he know how his double vote would be "unlocked" and that he is in fact himself Wolfgang Grimmer? I feel like I'm missing something here.

And now that Rockin is gone I find it interesting that Mentos is pushing this "I am basically confirmed town," theory based on his ability to cast a 2nd hidden vote. In my opinion, having the ability to double vote (one of the votes being hidden) doesn't confirm a townie role.

Indeed. If you look at his power and the way it is unlocked there is no way to tell his allignment. It could very well be a mafia power to turn the table in a sticky situation like we have it now in case of mentos. However, this is a reason why we think we shouldn't lynch mentos toDay as we can force or manipulate him to use his double vote for the purposes of town (which at this point would be mainly to pressure Vyse).

Omni, you do realize you are making points on someone who counterclaimed scum and made sure they were lynched, and now has a proven role which would be overpowered in the hands of mafia, correct?

I also realize that you only counterclaimed the name of an already doomed mafia player. You didn't make sure he'd be lynched because he was about to get lynched already. Your role is proven but your allignment is not.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

A quick thought:

Omni's and Mentos' abilities seem to complement each other quite well. One being unable to hammer, the other being able to double vote in a sticky situation. I don't want to base allignments on this but at least I'd like to hear what other people think of this.

 

[Omni]

A quick thought:

Omni's and Mentos' abilities seem to complement each other quite well. One being unable to hammer, the other being able to double vote in a sticky situation. I don't want to base allignments on this but at least I'd like to hear what other people think of this.

You were golden all the way up to this point.

Gheb, who do you want to lynch toDay and why?

 

[#HBC | Mac]

I agree gheb.

shut up scumni >=[

wud love some kevinm input

 

[mentosman8]

Did I really just get asked how I would know how my power was unlocked? Its called a role pm, generally tells you how your role works. I can't believe I'm getting suspicion cast on me for not suspecting rockin as he played almost exactly how he always does. And yes, Omni, I am getting stressed out, because the case against me is terrible, a doublevoter in mafia breaks the game giving scum the ability to quicklynch at lylo without a single townie voting, and you're reaching so hard for a case on me it's looks like you're trying to push a lynch on me when you don't actually think I'm scum. Your points are terrible, I've refuted them, and yet you still push them without acknowledging my defense.

Mac, don't have a percent for you, enough to not think you're anywhere near the play today

 

[Omni]

>=[ *Awesomni.

 

[mentosman8]

*dumni

Last post till I'm home from work somewhere between 3 and 7.

 

[Omni]

And your defense isn't that great. I already told you that a triggered double voter (you being at L-2) makes it more balanced for Mafia. Regardless, your defense doesn't explain how scummy you have been playing.

Your lack of offense on scumhunting and making good points doesn't help either. I don't think I've seen you make a good insightful push towards anyone I would suspect.

I'm not pushing something that's nonexistent or something that just happened out of the blue. I just haven't liked your play since D1 and I found it scummy. Your ties with Rockin (never commenting toward each other) makes you look scummier. Your situation with CC'ing Rockin is suspicious. And as I said before you and Vyse are the only candidates I feel comfortable with dying toDay. I'm also uncomfortable with your broad lynch candidates.

The case against you isn't terrible considering both Gheb and Macman agree with most of my points.

Also, you're starting to give off more smelly vibes, Mentos:

And yes, Omni, I am getting stressed out, because the case against me is terrible, a doublevoter in mafia breaks the game giving scum the ability to quicklynch at lylo without a single townie voting, and you're reaching so hard for a case on me it's looks like you're trying to push a lynch on me when you don't actually think I'm scum. Your points are terrible, I've refuted them, and yet you still push them without acknowledging my defense.

Didn't you say that you have to be at L-2 in order to doublevote and that it was a triggered event? Here you're suggesting that you could quicklynch without a single townie voting. If you are aware of how your abilities are awakened, why would you suggest that you could doublevote without your vote being triggered?

Also, you use the word terrible twice. It seems kinda' dramatic since I don't think my arguments are terrible. The only thing I "made up" was the explanation to Rockin' claiming Wolfgang and you CC'ing late into the next day. I pretty much find you the scummiest here and you want us to believe that you "didn't realize he claimed your character" because you were distracted by the title. I don't trust you therefore I don't buy it.

 

[Omni]

Also, before you leave, how about instead of just defending yourself you try to do a bit of scumhunting i.e. do something townie for a change?

Telling us that you suspect 4/7 people without giving any points, to be frank, means diddly squat.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

It happens at L/2.

Mentos, you are a liability. If you are scum, you can win lylo fairly easily. You also have been pretty scummy all game and you not catching rockins fakeclaim is terribly antitown.

The only thing stopping me from wanting to lynch you is flavor. Since your role makes sense for grimmer.

I need Kevin and Vyse to nameclaim. Need to hear lots from Kevin[and Vyse... but not really cuz i know hes scum]. Vyse needs to roleclaim, and potentially Kevin after that.

The way I see this game right now is that we have 3 lynches[Theres 8 people left so one ML away from mylo. Which makes me comfortable with the idea of 3 lynches because even if somehow someone is killed (vig or something) we's still be at lylo] and 4 potential scum. [Vyse, Kevin, Mentos, and Omni]. So basically I have to pick which one I feel is town. And currently that spot is going to Omni. And if I am right, it wouldn't matter which order the last 3 are lynched in, we should still win.

Omni[and everyone else], thoughts on this?

 

[Cacti]

Why do people think that mafia were not given safe claims? It looks like Rockin knew he was dead anyways, and then had mentos cc him, mentos being his scumbuddy, to get into the clear the next day.

 

[KevinM]

Hey guys I'm going to reread this thread now, not up for quick lynching ANYONE sorry, I'd rather get this going right let me look through it all.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

this is true cacti... but its GRIMMER!

 

[KevinM]

Ok not a lot of time to say all I want to say so lets make this concise for now.

Definitely don't think Omni vs Mentos is Town vs Town.

On that note I would definitely lean towards Mentos as I already played against and was wrecked by an activated mafia double voter in a game over at mafia scum a few months back.

Lynch pool at this point from me.

1. Mentos
2. Vyse
3. Omni
4. Gheb
5. Cacti
6. Macman

If I'm going into a Lylo situation I would definitely stake my life on it that both Gheb and Mac are town and they're the kind of people I want in it. Macman normally i decline in Lylo situations but as a confirmed townie in my eyes I want him there, because I can balance my play off of him a lot. The only reason Cacti is before Gheb in my lynch pool is the un CC'd cop claim. Going into a Lylo I'd rather have the aforementioned players.

Gheb gets major brownie points from me by noting to Omni not to 100 percent clear me just because I lynched scum, showing that in a lylo situation he would most assuredly look at all the options before falling into any gambit.

I do not get why Macman is looking for so many claims, that part is the only thing that's kinda ehh from me. I mean I'll nameclaim if I must but I don't see the point in giving mafia more information when in general we should be ok today.

Gheb as you've pointed out it is odd how well their two abilities coincide and I'll be ****ed if its a gambit of scum vs scum, but i doubt it. Omni seems to be the more townie of the two simply because I've seen him push cases really strong when he's town ignoring other possibilities.

Macman, I think I've told you in every game we are together, to let go of flavor. Had I been hung up on flavor D1 such as you, Rockin would have been incredibly hard to read, but if you look at the game with no roles and no characters, you can then easily see the scum tells he makes.

The fact that Mentos had never once mentioned Rockin till D2 when his lynch was looking largely inevitable is exactly how I would see scumtosman play, in fact, it's how he's won his last two games as scum.

Coupled with the fact that if he is indeed scum then him pushing a lynch on an indie is a null tell, and him using it as a refutation to one of Omni's points when him as a vet should know pushing an indie is null tell makes me sort of antsy.

At Macman we have seven players today, not 8.

 

[mentosman8]

Kevin: I used that point because he said I hadn't scumhunted at all, and pinning an indie is scumhunting. Just because I haven't had uber leads on everyone doesn't mean I've tried. More to come shortly, on my way home from work.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

You were golden all the way up to this point.

Explain? I have brought up a legitimate concern here.

Gheb, who do you want to lynch toDay and why?

Mentosman or Vyse.
I'll post reasons in detail later.

a doublevoter in mafia breaks the game giving scum the ability to quicklynch at lylo without a single townie voting

Since your ability has to be unlocked this can be easily prevented.

Answer this: What do you think of Vyse? Is he town or scm? Which one and why?

Why do people think that mafia were not given safe claims? It looks like Rockin knew he was dead anyways, and then had mentos cc him, mentos being his scumbuddy, to get into the clear the next day.

Yes, this has been pointed out already. I'd rather hear your opinion on players.

 

[mentosman8]

Actually, you know what? No more substantial post from me. I'm tired of players like Marshy and Mac being able to go through a game pushing lynches and never giving reasoning and nobody thinks anything of them, yet if I'm not making point by point arguments on everyone in the **** game I'm scummy for it. "OH MY GOD HE DIDN'T PUSH ROCKIN!" When Rockin was pretty much the epitome of early game Rockin in every game. Honestly if not for the fact that I realized that my other personality was the name he claimed, I woulda sat on a Vyse wagon at the end of the day.

Then there's the whole not scumhunting thing. Want to tell me when the hell Marshy ever makes it apparent that he's scumhunting? "Oh no, Mentos doesn't have reads on people, he must be scum!" Not to mention, me being cautious and not pushing hard sure isn't a scumtell for me, but hey, let's roll with it right?

And of course the whole Rockin never commented on you and you never pushed him! Well no way I never pushed him, I said many times I didn't find his play suspicious, so why would I push him? And Rockin didn't comment on me? Well good job on accomplishing scum's goal of drawing connections.

I'm tired of arguing this. I make a defense and people write it off like I said nothing. I'm not about to make a big post for the sake of making myself look townie. On top of that, about the time I make a big post trying to make a point on someone, I'll just called out saying I'm trying to divert attention from myself and garner more votes. I'm just gonna stick with Marshy.

Vote: Vyse

Cacti=un cc'd cop with a miller in the game heavily indicating cop, Mac=n1 inno, Omni not sure if he's dumb or scum, feeling good about Kev, Gheb and Vyse can definitely die. Consider this vote parked and the other one will probably join it shortly.

 

[Mediocre]

As of post 836

4/7 votes to lynch

The Current Votecount:

Vyse: 2 (Macman, mentosman8)
mentosman8: 1 (Omni)
Not Voting: 4 (Vyse, Cacti, KevinM, Gheb_01)



Search Terms For Maximum Searchability:
DayThreeVoteCount
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Activity

Dec 12
Omni
Macman
mentosman8
Gheb_01
Cacti
KevinM

Dec 11

Dec 6
Vyse

Dec 5

INACTIVE



Inactivity Count
Cacti: 3
mentosman8: 2
Rockin: 2
Marshy: 1

 

[mentosman8]

(Also, just as a friendly note to Medi, that last post in no way means I am going to become uncommitted to the game or play stupidly, I'm just extremely frustrated and may not post for the remainder of the real life day while I try to find some way to get out of this cage I've been put in by tunnel-town)

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I'd rather lynch Vyse than mentos toDay despite his AtE. Mentos' doublevote can still be useful for town purposes even if he's scum. Vyse's @ -1 now. Don't vote him unless you're scum. I want to hear his claim before I vote anybody yet.

 

[mentosman8]

L-2 Gheb, I only have one vote on him, and don't plan on putting my other on until the days gone on a while. Secondly, I can see how you find that an AtE, but also see it from my perspective: I defend myself against Omni's points, he throws it off to the side like nothing. Then he tells me to "start scumhunting" because apparently only those who make one line posts constantly are able to get by without making cases every five seconds, and the fact that I pinned an anti-town role halfway through D1 doesn't count for me having scumhunting, and he expects me to make a case which will, invariably, lead to me being called out for "averting attention from myself." Since defending myself apparently gets written off, I don't see any way out of this sudden push for my head that didn't exist until today. This makes me extremely frustrated and I'm fine with showing that. In fact, a lot of that post actually had points in it among the frustration. Oh, and I guess I'll add this so that I don't get suspected for not posting a case on someone I've got my vote on...

Vyse dead yet?