MK close to banned

[ZeroFox]

Well I'm hoping he doesn't get banned anytime soon, or ever. Guess I better get as many tournament wins under my belt as possible before the ban comes lol

 

[aeghrur]

Yoshi is 55-45 Metaknight. Been discussed by both boards, agreed on, end of deal.

 

[Nizro]

I'm mostly for the ban of metaknight he is simply to good in alot of aspects, Air game, Ground game, priority, Speed... It's pretty much unmatched at some points..

You can gimp really easy with Metaknight and with the whole fast shield release to downsmash thing.. too good..

Ban him in tournaments so that players play different chars, And play him more on your free time, In time more aspects of the game will come and Meta knight will probably be unbanned, and then banned again later on because he's still to freakin' good

However I would care less about brawl, I'm more of a melee fan really.. Brawl is simply to slow and to "Defensive" for my taste...

 

[Deoxys]

Yoshi is 55-45 Metaknight. Been discussed by both boards, agreed on, end of deal.

Not end of deal until Yoshi mains start counterpicking better. Banning Delfino instead of Rainbow Cruise is why it isn't agreed to be 55/45 Yoshi IMO.

Edit: Nizro, it's spelled "too." I wouldn't bother to correct your spelling except that you made the mistake at least 3 times so I want to make sure you know how to spell it. No offense is intended, btw.

 

[Rh1thmz]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=179463

For those of you who are still tossing around the Yoshi and Snake matchups, I think that they are pretty accurately portrayed in the above link...I'm not so sure on the matchup difficulty rating on the Olimar matchup, though...the difficulty of approaching a really good Olimar can get really high at times...though the matchup is still in MK's favor due to how MK shreds up Olimar when he finally gets him off the ground. The Olimar that I face is really good, and it makes me think that the matchup difficulty rating is defintely not what is posted in that link lol...but, although we live fairly close to each other and get "green-rated connection," I do play against him online, and I'm not an awesome MK player by any means (although I am pretty decent...I'd love to post vids, but technical difficulties are preventing me from putting any up on YouTube >.>...anyways, I'm getting off-topic here...).

Anyways, check there for lots of info on Snake and Yoshi vs MK.


On another note, I'm kind of tied up on what to think about this whole situation. At the current moment, MK is showing high levels of domination at the professional level; however, what if, in 2 months, we find something groundbreaking about a few characters that MK doesn't fare well against? Sure, I don't have a good idea of what this could be, but if we jump the gun right now, then we'd never know about that discovery, and the chance of survival that such a discovery would offer MK would be ignored due to the fact that he would be banned. So, I don't really know...should we wait for a few more months before trying anything drastic, or should we just go for the ban right now? =\

 

[aeghrur]

Not end of deal until Yoshi mains start counterpicking better. Banning Delfino instead of Rainbow Cruise is why it isn't agreed to be 55/45 Yoshi IMO.

No, I think it is the end of deal because not many MKs really have match up experience with Yoshi mains atm because they're so few in number. Give it a bit and MK can get around the grab release. I think Dojo already found how to beat Yoshi considering he does really good against Bwett's yoshi... or so he said.
I mean, counterpicking a stage could play a role in this, but I think it would make it even at best. =/ But, opinions opinions.

 

[Tyser]

OP is a ******. YAYZ!

 

[Deoxys]

No, I think it is the end of deal because not many MKs really have match up experience with Yoshi mains atm because they're so few in number. Give it a bit and MK can get around the grab release. I think Dojo already found how to beat Yoshi considering he does really good against Bwett's yoshi... or so he said.
I mean, counterpicking a stage could play a role in this, but I think it would make it even at best. =/ But, opinions opinions.

I wasn't going to argue until I read the part in bold. Rainbow Cruise is virtually a guaranteed win for MK, whereas Yoshi has a legitimate chance on Delfino. That change can't possibly only account for 5% of wins.

How can MK get around the grab release? Just by not getting grabbed? If there's a way to get out of it after being grabbed, please tell me!!

 

[aeghrur]

I wasn't going to argue until I read the part in bold. Rainbow Cruise is virtually a guaranteed win for MK, whereas Yoshi has a legitimate chance on Delfino. That change can't possibly only account for 5% of wins.

How can MK get around the grab release? Just by not getting grabbed? If there's a way to get out of it after being grabbed, please tell me!!

Well, as stated in that matchup thread, Rainbow cruise does have walkoff parts where Yoshi can CG you into death.
And get around grab release? Stages with platforms? Planking(although gay)? =/ Being more aggressive aerially? Frame trapping?

 

[Rh1thmz]

Double post =( definitely wasn't on purpose...sorry about that, nevertheless. Read my post below this one.

 

[Rh1thmz]

I mean, counterpicking a stage could play a role in this, but I think it would make it even at best. =/ But, opinions opinions.

Lol you read the matchup in the thread; you know that Castle Siege (the 2nd stage) and Green Hill zone have walkoffs where Yoshi can just CG you off the stage for a forced death. Counterpicking is pretty much what this match can come down to if both players know how to counterpick this matchup. It's definitely an important part of the matchup.

 

[Deoxys]

Well, as stated in that matchup thread, Rainbow cruise does have walkoff parts where Yoshi can CG you into death.
And get around grab release? Stages with platforms? Planking(although gay)? =/ Being more aggressive aerially? Frame trapping?

An MK that's playing correctly should just focus on avoiding the CG when there are on the walkoff parts. If they play it right Yoshi should never have a chance on RC.

What is Frame trapping?

 

[aeghrur]

Lol you read the matchup in the thread; you know that Castle Siege (the 2nd stage) and Green Hill zone have walkoffs where Yoshi can just CG you off the stage for a forced death. Counterpicking is pretty much what this match can come down to if both players know how to counterpick this matchup. It's definitely an important part of the matchup.

Yeah, I read that. And yet the match up is still 55-45 metaknight. =/

An MK that's playing correctly should just focus on avoiding the CG when there are on the walkoff parts. If they play it right Yoshi should never have a chance on RC.

What is Frame trapping?

Frame trapping is where you use a move so that it traps them because your attack box's frames will always damage them before they can get something to counter?
Something like that.
It was in the Should MK be Banned thread. =/

 

[smasher?o.0]

MK will probably not get banned
and if he does
everyone who thinks he should is a pussywimp/etc
i posted something in another thread tht im to lazy to explain

 

[aeghrur]

MK has more of a probability TO get banned then to not get banned. >_>

 

[WakerofWinds]

MK has more of a probability TO get banned then to not get banned. >_>

point is... he SHOULDN'T be

 

[aeghrur]

point is... he SHOULDN'T be

That's debatable.

 

[RyN]

If by shouldn't you mean should, lol

 

[Deoxys]

MK has more of a probability TO get banned then to not get banned. >_>

Also debatable. At least there will still be TOs who will allow MK.

If by shouldn't you mean should, lol

....

 

[WakerofWinds]

Clearly, I mean shouldn't.

It's too early to go around naming bans here and there, a lot of characters will be discovered to be just as cheap if MK leaves the scene, it'll happen. You'll see.

 

[RyN]

Clearly, I mean shouldn't.

It's too early to go around naming bans here and there, a lot of characters will be discovered to be just as cheap if MK leaves the scene, it'll happen. You'll see.

Nobody ever said it wouldn't happen, but your statement about someone being as equally cheap as MK is irrelevantly dumb.

 

[WakerofWinds]

Nobody ever said it wouldn't happen, but your statement about someone being as equally cheap as MK is irrelevantly dumb.

I never used the word equally, though I admit, I should have been more clear about it. It would be "proportional" I suppose you could say. And something can't really be dumb in an irrelevant way, because... well... yeah, I won't go into that, just forget I mentioned it.

 

[The Milk Monster]

Yeah no one really compares besides Dedede, but thats for a whole different reason, obviously.

 

[Andurian]

Ah, but there's the rub. MetaKnight is 'cheap' (I still don't think he is... but oh well. Matter of opinion I suppose). Dedede is also cheap and, as you said, compares in how cheap the character can be. If MetaKnight is banned for being cheap, then why not the other characters who are cheap? It's the same argument I had earlier really.

It's too early to throw around bans, especially against characters that can still be beaten still (please remember... I don't even like using MetaKnight). I am curious though... for the win percentages, are all tournament matches used to calculate them? Or is another method used? If one is to use new player's matches to calculate percents in there as well, then one will notice MetaKnight is much easier to pick up than other characters, which would boost the percents. Using him well is a different story since you really have to know what you're doing.

Someone brought up the fast shield to down smash... well... Rob has the same thing. It is still avoidable if you are careful. It is a move that can be used fairly quickly and easily but I still do not believe it to be rigged. I normally know when it's going to be used since... well... MetaKnight is on me. I shield myself and grab MetaKnight out of it. It may work for me because I am Lucario and his grab appears to be fairly fast. It could also be that I time it so I don't get hit... or that I commonly fought MetaKnight early on. Best tip I know of, don't get too close. It'll hurt a lot.

Someone also commented on MetaKnight's priority. I have to disagree that MetaKnight has a ridiculous priority. Most of the time, the attacks seem to get though because there are multiple hits rather than his priority. Even so, several of my hits have knocked Meta out of his attacks. This is usually just my down air that Lucario has. It can knock him out of the tornado with relative ease and can help me avoid other hits such as Meta's up B skill.

Now for messed up priority, I have to say Lucario is one of the worst (in terms of what makes sense)... I used an up smash and during the twirling phase, where there is no Aura to be hit, I was hit by a Jigglypuff roll from the side. For some odd reason, our attacks canceled, despite the fact mine was clearly over and has no aura appearing on the side.

 

[HeroMystic]

I am curious though... for the win percentages, are all tournament matches used to calculate them? Or is another method used?

Match-ups are judged by "If two characters went against each other at the top of their metagame" (metagame meaning current highest skill level known). People then discuss based on facts and knowledge of their characters against the opponent. After that, the debaters then come to an agreement of what ratio is used.

While tournament play is not the only thing used for ratios, it plays a big factor since things are on the line and people are playing to win.