Q&A Mirror of Truth or Palutena's Advice? Both available at all hours of the day

[disfrozen]

Run up, shield, then grab. Or send arrows back. Or approach with SH Fair/Nair/RAR Bairs.

If it's a short ranged projectile, or a really slow one, you can try to Electroshock through, not really recommended, though.

Also, remember you have the orbitars for long ranged projectiles, or when you can read a projectile worth reflecting (Megaman's Fsmash, Villager's Fsmash, Villager's Timber, etc)

 

[LancerStaff]

I like being stubborn with my fullhop arrows, but I'm not sure how effective it is overall since I tend to fight overly agro players. That and DP's aren't so hot...

 

[MKchouy]

Pretty much what the first two guys said.

I start out with a heavy grab game to get in early percent combos. Just do your best to power shield the projectiles then punish with a grab. They will either be forced to start throwing out attacks or spot dodges, both you can punish with Pit's/DPit's ranged disjoints or even the super armor side B to win trades.

I guess it's kind of redundant now but condition your opponents with grabs, then punish with stronger ranged attacks (dash attacks, SH retreating fairs/nairs, poke with sh bairs.

Lastly, use your multiple jumps, they're one of the pit duo's main assets! Hover around their shield with 3 or 4 SH dairs then retreat away from them (watch out for anti-air up smashes!). SH side-B is safe on shield too.

 

[Funkermonster]

Would you guys say Pit can do well against these guys? / or custom (only because of Kong Cyclone)?

I main Mega Man, and I'd say his weaknesses are his limited killing options, being a little vulnerable to combos (he has above average weight and being a fast faller), and has a tough time when fast characters can bypass his lemons and beat him in closer ranges. Although I'm only truly terrified of Falcon and Sheik, I feel that most of the other characters I mentioned have tools that could either potentially give Mega Man a run for his money (Fox, Pac-Man, and even Zelda) or I just can't stand fighting them (Lucario, Toon Link, and Olimar) and I think they still have tools that can work against him whether they're a negative MU or not. In the case of listing Mega Man and Pit themselves, Mega Man dittos are among the most boring and and annoying MUs for me in the game and its jank as ****, though admittedly I find that a lot of dittos are jank, characters in this game in this game don't seem to be designed well to deal with their own tools. I think Pit himself is yet another one of the potential bad MUs for Mega Man, and from my experience his ditto doesn't seem nearly as bad as Mega Man's and is at least doable if I ever had to go through one. Trying to find a good backup if I ever feel the need to replace Greninja and I've been having a lot more fun with Pit as of late, as much as I love playing him he's got a real steep learning curve and playing him can be a bit depressing and discouraging sometimes, and I feel his custom moves don't really do a lot to change his meta game either, in fact I even find him better without them than with them in most instances. The other characters I pocket I feel also have a high learning curve (Sonic, Rosa), are not as fun to play (Sonic, Palutena) don't back up Mega Man as well (Duck Hunt, Shulk), or are terrible without customs (Lucina, Palutena) and might not be reliable in tournaments where thy aren't used; and for these reasons I'm currently leaning towards Pit and Pac-Man the most. Playstyle-wise, I've come to find that Pit fits me just fine from both experience playing him and what I've been told: Works best in mid to close ranges, my preferred zone, and can work just fine both offensively & defensively (leaning more towards the latter, though).

The stuff about customs brings me to another question: Does Pit get much of an upgrade from them (I know Guiding Bow and Impact Orbitars are good, but I don't know how good or how to use them best)? Do you think he's better in a custom environment or a custom-less one? I've also heard from two people somewhere that Pit has a +1 or even MU against Sheik, can anyone here vouch for that? From theory, I find that hard to believe.

 

[Speed Boost]

In general Pit has to rely on mixups from his powerful dash game to approach in nuetral. For example Pit's powerful dash attack can condition your opponent to shield which can setup for his excellent dash grab.

However, those are very committal approaches by themselves so you are going to want some non committal mixups as well. You can dash to a short hop retreating nair, spacing it so it is safe on shield. If your opponent blocks it can bait your opponent into a punish attempt which you can easily intercept. If they stay in shield instead of trying to punish you can hard read a dash attack to catch their shield drop or roll away.

You want to try to play your options off of each other in concert so you can condition your opponent and make reads easier. If they start spot dodging grabs, pivot grab, etc.

With a character like Pit who has average approach and nuetral options you have to be able to dictate your opponents defensive options by adapting to them when they change and trying to bait out the ones you want. It's never as simple as using this move or that move.

Anyways, I'm rambling. Good luck and if anyone has any good baits or setups please share!

Edit: Forgot to address projectiles. Most of the time your best option is shield like others have mentioned but I just want to add a few things. If you don't already know this you want to use a walk shield or dash shield where you don't let go of the direction you are moving when pressing shield. It will allow you to use consecutive shields with much less cooldown and startup than letting go of the direction and shielding.

However, you can't simply approach, shield, approach, shield and then punish every time you get close to them. You have to mix it up still or they will start to punish you on your approach. Stop short sometimes and bait out a grab or a jab and then punish. They will start to look for other options after consecutive punishes.

 

[IrkenPPG]

Forward Air offstage, kills easier, plus his recovery is insane. Down Air is ok, hard to spike, back air. I wouldn't use up air off stage, or nuetral.

 

[redhawk&goggles]

i fire arrows pivot to a shield if they are approaching when i am , dash forward to a side step and if they are in front grab if not slied or attack(Toward smash) but mixing it up really is the way , keep them guessing several low f-airs will condition them to block in which case you can keep firing a few arrows this will force an approach.

 

[LancerStaff]

Would you guys say Pit can do well against these guys? / or custom (only because of Kong Cyclone)?

I main Mega Man, and I'd say his weaknesses are his limited killing options, being a little vulnerable to combos (he has above average weight and being a fast faller), and has a tough time when fast characters can bypass his lemons and beat him in closer ranges. Although I'm only truly terrified of Falcon and Sheik, I feel that most of the other characters I mentioned have tools that could either potentially give Mega Man a run for his money (Fox, Pac-Man, and even Zelda) or I just can't stand fighting them (Lucario, Toon Link, and Olimar) and I think they still have tools that can work against him whether they're a negative MU or not. In the case of listing Mega Man and Pit themselves, Mega Man dittos are among the most boring and and annoying MUs for me in the game and its jank as ****, though admittedly I find that a lot of dittos are jank, characters in this game in this game don't seem to be designed well to deal with their own tools. I think Pit himself is yet another one of the potential bad MUs for Mega Man, and from my experience his ditto doesn't seem nearly as bad as Mega Man's and is at least doable if I ever had to go through one. Trying to find a good backup if I ever feel the need to replace Greninja and I've been having a lot more fun with Pit as of late, as much as I love playing him he's got a real steep learning curve and playing him can be a bit depressing and discouraging sometimes, and I feel his custom moves don't really do a lot to change his meta game either, in fact I even find him better without them than with them in most instances. The other characters I pocket I feel also have a high learning curve (Sonic, Rosa), are not as fun to play (Sonic, Palutena) don't back up Mega Man as well (Duck Hunt, Shulk), or are terrible without customs (Lucina, Palutena) and might not be reliable in tournaments where thy aren't used; and for these reasons I'm currently leaning towards Pit and Pac-Man the most. Playstyle-wise, I've come to find that Pit fits me just fine from both experience playing him and what I've been told: Works best in mid to close ranges, my preferred zone, and can work just fine both offensively & defensively (leaning more towards the latter, though).

The stuff about customs brings me to another question: Does Pit get much of an upgrade from them (I know Guiding Bow and Impact Orbitars are good, but I don't know how good or how to use them best)? Do you think he's better in a custom environment or a custom-less one? I've also heard from two people somewhere that Pit has a +1 or even MU against Sheik, can anyone here vouch for that? From theory, I find that hard to believe.

Pit does well against most of the characters you've mentioned. Lucario he definitely does not, and Olimar I personally don't do well against probably just because he's Olimar. Pit, have an advantage over Shiek? Yeah, I don't think so. Although I think the matchup is manageable, definitely not any more then a -1.

With customs I'd say he doesn't really move overall. They're not bad by any means, just not significantly better then defaults. There's no Dashing Assault or Gust Cape that instantly makes him better for virtually no trade-off, but it's matchup specific.

 

[jaddasroots]

You've all been a great help I'll try all these things out.

 

[Tito Maas]

Yes, this thread isn't very long but it's also helped my approach game with DP!

 

[Tito Maas]

Got a lot of help from this thread. I still rely on DAirs a bit too much but I love FAirs for stage spikes and punishing air dodges. Also my back airs have been much more accurate. Really appreciate y'all!

Learning how to bait opponents into relaxing about returning to the ledge by hopping off in pursuit but returning to the edge until late in the game where I'll be able to catch them off-guard with a full pursuit. Also, getting back to the ledge has been easier by mixing up how many jumps I use before I UpB

 

[EgeDal]

I was discussing with a friend about differences of DPit and Pit, he said Pit is better in neutral. I thought their tools were the same in neutral except DPit's ftilt doesn't kill with tipper.
Can you tell me what other differences does DPit have that prevents him from being as good as Pit in neutral?
I thought DPit only has a different Side-B(that i think is better than Pit's), different arrows, and different ftilt, anything else?

Like his air speed, weight or something? Throws? Anything?

Thank you ^^

 

[Wintropy]

Nope. That's it.

He isn't any better or worse in neutral, unless f-tilt or side-b factor into how you play.

 

[Tito Maas]

Which moves autocancel and when? And while naming the frame, could you aso describe at which point in the animation that these attacks autocancel?

 

[LancerStaff]

Which moves autocancel and when? And while naming the frame, could you aso describe at which point in the animation that these attacks autocancel?

It's all in Aerodrome's data. http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Pit

Although it may not be accurate since it's from the Mewtwo update, I'm confident in saying that Pit has had no changes since.

 

[Funkermonster]

Thoughts on what I coulda better here? I'm well aware that the video thread exists, but while I posted it there nobody seemed to show up and I also posted them elsewhere and still got nothing, and I'm real eager to proceed to level 3 in my gameplay. There doesn't seem to be very many people who play this character, either that or this board isn't that active.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cB0aaeu8L5I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=741H2NQK35Q

Also I heard somthing about Dthrow > Orbitars, is that a thing and if so, what percents do it work at?

 

[LancerStaff]

Thoughts on what I coulda better here? I'm well aware that the video thread exists, but while I posted it there nobody seemed to show up and I also posted them elsewhere and still got nothing, and I'm real eager to proceed to level 3 in my gameplay. There doesn't seem to be very many people who play this character, either that or this board isn't that active.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cB0aaeu8L5I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=741H2NQK35Q

Also I heard somthing about Dthrow > Orbitars, is that a thing and if so, what percents do it work at?

First off, fullhop arrows. Just jump and shoot an arrow at practically the same time and you'll save 20 frames of lag. You should also occasionally charge arrows, especially against offstage opponents.

You should probably practice DI a bit more... It's still funky in SSB4.

Watch your ff timing on Fair, do it too soon and you'll get landing lag.

You talking about Impact Orbitars? I don't see why it wouldn't work but it's, like, late and I'm tired so blarg.

 

[Marrow]

I'm trying to pick up Pit, but I can't for the life of me figure out his best kill options. What's good for taking a stock?

 

[Funkermonster]

I'm trying to pick up Pit, but I can't for the life of me figure out his best kill options. What's good for taking a stock?

Fthrow? Fsmash? Bair? Gimping with arrows and fair? Pit does a lot of things well, but killing isn't really one of them.

 

[LancerStaff]

I'm trying to pick up Pit, but I can't for the life of me figure out his best kill options. What's good for taking a stock?

Smashes and Sspecial obviously, Fair, Bair, Uair if you can catch them high enough, Ftilt, Uthrow in certain situations, and Fthrow. Pit actually has a ton of kill options, but little that leads into them at KO%s and there's nothing you can really afford to just throw out until much later %s.

Since Pit will often find himself surviving upwards of 150%, he'll end up making great use of the rage mechanic. Basically every 10% you take, it adds 0.01x knockback to all of your attacks and caps at an extra 0.15x.

 

[Wintropy]

I'm trying to pick up Pit, but I can't for the life of me figure out his best kill options. What's good for taking a stock?

If you can get the read, f-smash. DO NOT TRY THIS UNLESS YOU CAN GET THE READ. You will be punished for it. The fact that it has two successive hitboxes means it's good for catching spotdodges, so if your opponent dodges a lot, you can try for f-smash. This is especially useful if you condition them into spotdodging by grabbing consistently, and by the time they're at kill percent they will start to get fidgety and more defensive - ergo more spotdodges, ergo more opportunity to f-smash.

U-smash is great for covering landings and sharking your opponent from beneath a platform. D-throw -> running u-smash is also one of Pit's bread 'n' butter combos at low percents. As with all of Pit's smashes, it's unsafe on shield and should only be used after a read or to punish. The hitbox starts right next to Pit in the direction he's facing, though you need to be right on top of the opponent for it to hit, so it's easier to just wait until they're overhead.

D-smash is useful, but situational. Use it to punish a roll if they're going behind you or to catch a dodgy landing. It's quite slow, though, so only use it when you're confident you'll hit with one of the hitboxes. Note that it's not as strong as Pit's other smashes, so don't expect to kill until high percents or with high rage.

B-air is good if you're falling, and shorthop b-air can be a good punish option if the opponent is chasing you. It has poor range, though, so be wary of whiffing it. It's most powerful at the tip, so try to aim for the sweetspot if you can.

At high percents (120% is a good benchmark), Upperdash Arm can kill. Due to it being notoriously slow and unsafe on shield, you should only ever use this after a good read or as a crossover move. Grounded Upperdash is the way to go if you want to kill, as aerial Upperdash takes much longer to get the kill. Make sure you don't let it stale!

F-throw, at high percents and at the edge, is probably Pit's best and most reliable kill move. The fact that Pit has a great dash and pivot grab means you can get excellent kills with this move, especially if you can space your opponent back to the edge or you're punishing a landing, getup or recovery that you can get a read on! Make sure you don't let this move stale either, you want it to be as fresh as possible to get that kill!

 

[Tito Maas]

Long lag and short lag? Hm. An interesting wrinkle... Are you consistent enough to see if you can grab a non-perfect shielded hit on the short lag?

Can you go over full hop arrows one more time?

 

[LancerStaff]

Can you go over full hop arrows one more time?

Sure. But if you want to tag somebody without quotes you do it like so: @ LancerStaff

Anyway, fullhop arrows are easy with defaults. Hold jump, to do a full jump, and shoot an arrow as fast as you can. As long as you're in the air when the animation ends you'll save about twelve frames. With the Guiding Bow it's probably necessary to have jump on a shoulder if you want to do it consistently since the aerial lag lasts until you're practically on the ground.

 

[Tito Maas]

Sure. But if you want to tag somebody without quotes you do it like so: @ LancerStaff

Anyway, fullhop arrows are easy with defaults. Hold jump, to do a full jump, and shoot an arrow as fast as you can. As long as you're in the air when the animation ends you'll save about twelve frames. With the Guiding Bow it's probably necessary to have jump on a shoulder if you want to do it consistently since the aerial lag lasts until you're practically on the ground.

Uncharged arrows only?

 

[LancerStaff]

Uncharged arrows only?

With the default Bow you can charge them slightly, Guiding you can't charge enough to make a difference. Just so long as the animation ends before touching the ground you're fine.

 

[BaPr]

Are there really any AT's with Pit or things I should practice with him? Right now I am trying to get used to fast falling after Pit's short hop Nair to minimize end lag while still autocancelling, but that's about it.

 

[ReRaze]

Are there really any AT's with Pit or things I should practice with him? Right now I am trying to get used to fast falling after Pit's short hop Nair to minimize end lag while still autocancelling, but that's about it.

Upperdash has quite a few techniques, namely ledge cancelling (in many different ways) and b reversing it so that it travels further (not really travels further but pit steps forward instead of back). Check out Engarde's thread on the Arms for more info (not sure if she put anything about b reverse though).

 

[Funkermonster]

This is kind of a joke but I'll bite: Just curious, is it possible to activate Palutena's Guidance on the omega form of her stage and how do you make it work? Or does it only work on default? I was playing with 2 of my friends a couple days ago and just about every time I knocked them offstage or got a KO, I spammed Down Taunt as much as I could and nothing happened. One said I was doing an awful lot of taunting but I kept my mouth shut on that since if I told them what I was trying to do, it would ruin the surprise and take the fun out of it, and I still wanna do it. If I managed to pull it off in a tournament set on stream (which is always displayed on a giant monitor for everybody to see), it would possibly be the ultimate troll and I'm positive it would rile up the audience and my friends . I ask this since Palutena's Temple by default is (obviously) not a legal stage and if it doesn't work on Omega, then that renders my prank impossible

I was using a wireless controller though with input lag, and I was told you have to down taunt on 1 frame. So maybe that has something to do with it.

 

[LancerStaff]

This is kind of a joke but I'll bite: Just curious, is it possible to activate Palutena's Guidance on the omega form of her stage and how do you make it work? Or does it only work on default? I was playing with 2 of my friends a couple days ago and just about every time I knocked them offstage or got a KO, I spammed Down Taunt as much as I could and nothing happened. One said I was doing an awful lot of taunting but I kept my mouth shut on that since if I told them what I was trying to do, it would ruin the surprise and take the fun out of it, and I still wanna do it. If I managed to pull it off in a tournament set on stream (which is always displayed on a giant monitor for everybody to see), it would possibly be the ultimate troll and I'm positive it would rile up the audience and my friends . I ask this since Palutena's Temple by default is (obviously) not a legal stage and if it doesn't work on Omega, then that renders my prank impossible

I was using a wireless controller though with input lag, and I was told you have to down taunt on 1 frame. So maybe that has something to do with it.

Just the normal version. Guess they don't want it interfering in a real match.

 

[notyourparadigm]

If I managed to pull it off in a tournament set on stream (which is always displayed on a giant monitor for everybody to see), it would possibly be the ultimate troll and I'm positive it would rile up the audience and my friends . I ask this since Palutena's Temple by default is (obviously) not a legal stage and if it doesn't work on Omega, then that renders my prank impossible

Hrrm, I can only think of one way you could potentially pull it off. I know that it's nowhere near as prevalent in Smash4 as it is in Melee/PM, but you could ask for a quick button/input check before you start your set, and then 'accidentally' choose non-Omega Palutena's Temple and mash the hell out of that dtaunt. I highly doubt that the TO/Stream runners or whoever would let you sit through the entire dialogue, but it's better than nothing.

(Please link if you actually ever pull it off.)

 

[SilverWolfLaguz]

Having a hard time against the king of second bananas.

Is there any good way to avoid the dthrow -> nair ad nauseam combo with Pit, or should I pick someone else to handle ? (And if need be, pick up/pirate a copy of that character's game because I don't like using a character unless I've played at least one game with them start to finish)

 

[notyourparadigm]

It is tricky. Sadly to say, trying to wiggle your way out of Luigi's guaranteed follow ups can just get you punished harder-- if you air dodge or try to jump away, Luigi still has many options to punish your defensive options. Airdodging is particularly deadly, since his Tornado is an excellent kill move in the air, and landing with an air dodge is just begging for a shoyruken. I've heard tales that you can DI out of the final hits of the tornado by DI'ing downwards twice near the end of the animation, but so far I've had better luck unlocking Sonic in Melee...

At any rate, keep an eye on your percentage (and WeeGee's, b/c rage) whenever you get grabbed. Know at what percentages Luigi's follow ups are guaranteed. Until you pass that point, you are just going to have to grin and bear the guaranteed percentage.

Out of every option you have, nair is actually probably one of your best bets. It's Pit's go-to "stop comboing me pls" move, and can halt a Luigi's aerial pursuit very well. But it isn't foolproof-- if the Luigi player is smart, he'll know that Pit has an offensive option to try and get out of the combos, and can fast-fall --> shield after his first follow up to stuff your attack, then get another free shield grab. Luigi's sheer versatility and options after a grab means that you have to start anticipating what Luigi will do. Never get too comfortable with an option, as Luigi does have an answer for it.

As for picking up another character, I don't know if that's entirely necessary. Yes, Pit isn't top tier, but Luigi's dthrow combos work on everyone to a varying degree. Pit's fortunate in that he does have fast aerials to get out of the strings easier than say, Shulk, who has no choice but to wait until he can jump out of the combo or risk airdodging. Pit also doesn't suffer from lost double jump syndrome like the majority of the cast, so getting hit out of your second jump doesn't leave you at the mercy of Luigi's juggles. His smaller jump height does make it tricker to jump out of combos, but it could be far worse.

TL;DR: Keep your defensive options varied. Try to not get grabbed. GLHF.

 

[BrendanLee]

How do you play vs King Dedede?

 

[ReRaze]

How do you play vs King Dedede?

Omg im not the only one, thats my most hated matchup, you just have to play consistently and dont get hit until you kill him at 160% or something.
Or iIl switch to Lucario or Lucina

 

[vegeta18]

are there any cool things pit can do with sh buffered aerials?(double sticking)

 

[MarthOfHyrule]

You know how to can change direction when charging, right. I found that you can stall the shot by rapidly alternating the direction, even when fully charged. Anyone notice this?

 

[LancerStaff]

That's an in-game tip, actually.

 

[Red Pittoo ~ Rekt]

You know how to can change direction when charging, right. I found that you can stall the shot by rapidly alternating the direction, even when fully charged. Anyone notice this?

This was discovered so long ago and we have dubbed it "Arrow stalling" I believe

 

[gimpleader]

Sonic has always been a crux of mine in Smash 4, and I could really use some advice on the Pit vs Sonic match up. Any advice or video links would be much appreciated.

 

[Fujiwara]

There's not much advice. Get used that you don't have any priorities with Pit and the character is *not* strong. Just don't use arrows, move not much around and let him come at you so you can grab him. Don't try to follow him because he outpriotizes you in almost every move. Never use the arm or shield against him. It will end in a punishment for you because of the grab or the after-delay.