Midnight Ops Mafia: Game Thread. Game Over!

[Chaco]

Yeah Xivii burned up all of his town points in a blur.

 

[Z25]

I’ll be very shocked if he doesn’t flip a scum role or traitor.

Even if he is town, these shenanigans are muddying the game too much and we can’t focus on the right path if he’s going to keep changing things.

 

[Malakandra]

I feel so less mad that I tunneled you now, Xivii. And if we start missing you’re dead again.

It is not blatant at all trying to figure out if Xivii is a mason. He’s vanilla or scum and it’s obvious.

I get it, I'm just as mad as you probably are, we were right that he could fake this, and this removes the confirm-ability he had with Fonti being confirmed. I just don't see why Scum Xivii would do this at all. He was openly flaunting being able to get away with anything for most of today, I don't think scum Xivii gives that up at all, he basically had the ultimate win.

Then again he waits til he can’t be confirmed to be retract. Also hmm points.

I don't think he could of unclaimed yesterday without being yeeted immediately, I think he should have unclaimed a lot earlier today, so we could deal with this crap sooner though.

Chaco / DarkPit: Both slots are a bit the same; no specific posts that caused a strong impression but rather their whole gameplay has caused that; no post of them so far ringed the scum bell for me. Solid town reads

lol, this is the exact same thing Fonti pointed out FF doing earlier just on another level. Like we get it, DP is obv town, but he and Chaco have been playing very differently. Chaco is always in the moment, posting a ton, where as DP sits back more and collects stuff to respond to. This is just bad, make your own read for Chaco.

Vote Rajam

 

[Z25]

I get it, I'm just as mad as you probably are, we were right that he could fake this, and this removes the confirm-ability he had with Fonti being confirmed. I just don't see why Scum Xivii would do this at all. He was openly flaunting being able to get away with anything for most of today, I don't think scum Xivii gives that up at all, he basically had the ultimate win.



I don't think he could of unclaimed yesterday without being yeeted immediately, I think he should have unclaimed a lot earlier today, so we could deal with this crap sooner though.


lol, this is the exact same thing Fonti pointed out FF doing earlier just on another level. Like we get it, DP is obv town, but he and Chaco have been playing very differently. Chaco is always in the moment, posting a ton, where as DP sits back more and collects stuff to respond to. This is just bad, make your own read for Chaco.

Vote Rajam

I’ll pose this question then.

What does town zen get from saying he lied when if he’s town he would be set for the whole game now with not counter to his claim.

The answer nothing, it looks bad.

But role would have an advantage here?

A traitor. They could cause paranoia and set up their lunch to derail town.

 

[ExLight]

Hey let’s force the real chocolate to claim if there is one and let me play my gambit into a whole other day phase aside from my original gambit draw NK.

do you really think there's a chocolate around
if there were any they'd've counterclaimed already and I'd find a chocolate claim at this point more suspicious than the lack of any tbh

 

[Malakandra]

I’ll pose this question then.

What does town zen get from saying he lied when if he’s town he would be set for the whole game now with not counter to his claim.

The answer nothing, it looks bad.

But role would have an advantage here?

A traitor. They could cause paranoia and set up their lunch to derail town.

He doesn't get anything, but I think townXivii revealing the truth does help town more than if he stuck with his lie, not enough to make up for the damage it causes town in most scenarios, whatever. It helps us get a maximum of 2 ninja shots for scum, rather than an incorrect max 3, and if he was nightkilled, and he flipped not chocolate, I can't even guess how much paranoia and confusion that would cause, atleast this why he can explain his dumb play.

Traitor theory is plausible for claiming reasons, but does Traitor Xivii help lead a yeet onto their actual scum buddy? I don't think so.

 

[Chaco]

do you really think there's a chocolate around
if there were any they'd've counterclaimed already and I'd find a chocolate claim at this point more suspicious than the lack of any tbh

That was sarcasm directed at Xivi, Ex

 

[Chaco]

Why does everyone try to put me in their pocket?

 

[Chaco]

He doesn't get anything, but I think townXivii revealing the truth does help town more than if he stuck with his lie, not enough to make up for the damage it causes town in most scenarios, whatever. It helps us get a maximum of 2 ninja shots for scum, rather than an incorrect max 3, and if he was nightkilled, and he flipped not chocolate, I can't even guess how much paranoia and confusion that would cause, atleast this why he can explain his dumb play.

Traitor theory is plausible for claiming reasons, but does Traitor Xivii help lead a yeet onto their actual scum buddy? I don't think so.

I think so. Very few viable wagons, the alternative was in himself. Both go against wincon, but one self preserves because other scum don’t know he’s scum. So he muddies enough to survive.

To the top, his best post from town perspective was to never unclaim if he’s truly town. Cause all he did was take a **** on town doing so.

 

[BoomFrog]

I am, see the above post.

I'm glad to see it because that post is exactly what I was waiting for. Z25 is a true believer in the Zen-spiracy. Z25 is town regardless of Xivii's alignment.

I'm inclined to believe ExLight is pure too: https://smashboards.com/threads/mid...12th-at-8-pm-est.505778/page-38#post-24008044

LaserGuy's reaction is very worryingly low key. Laser has never doubted Xivii's claim for a minute. It feels like TMI. He was also never bothered by Xivii's "I'm so town" antics. I'm putting LG as #2 scum, but I'd prefer Rajam yeet today still. https://smashboards.com/threads/mid...12th-at-8-pm-est.505778/page-38#post-24008077

Trisscar is solid town but we already knew that: https://smashboards.com/threads/mid...12th-at-8-pm-est.505778/page-38#post-24008142

Rajam is calm, but since he didn't live through it that's more understandable: https://smashboards.com/threads/mid...12th-at-8-pm-est.505778/page-39#post-24008317

Fonti was calm as well, but she is a robot heavily filters before posting anyway. And I need to get way too paranoid before considering a fonti yeet.

Chaco and Malak are also true believers and solid town.

 

[Xivii]

So you are not talking about me in the bolded? Stop contridicting yourself. No more gambits, no more fake opinions to get a reaction, no more unserious votes. You are causing the same problems UP did in Oasis with your fancy play syndrome. You've burned up all your credit. If you keep this up and we also don't hit scum then you are going to get my postmortem finger of doom. And if you are town you are going to lose the game for us.

There's no contradiction:

The number of ninja shots / traitor is just speculation. Based on play alone, there doesn't appear to be a traitor, unless Chaco or Mala is a deep wolf.

That being said, I don't think it's a solid argument against Boom at all. It's just speculation really.

I scum read your for your forced reads and inconsistency regarding Z. I do not scum read you for your reaction to my claim. That's simply speculation that I wanted to get others' thoughts on.

 

[Xivii]

But you know what, I’d rather get answers from him once and for all. Ran can wait, and so can boom

Interesting. What happened to your assessment that I don't bus? How does my role change that? Additionally, why do you think scum!me retracts if I had a free ride to endgame?

 

[BoomFrog]

does Traitor Xivii help lead a yeet onto their actual scum buddy? I don't think so.

Especially considering that that scummate had literally posted saying traitor should not bus main scum.

Although, btw Xivii If you had not unclaimed then scum would have thought there was a traitor when there isn't. So your unclaim did help them. If there is a traitor then there is 1 ninja shot and scum would know that Xivii was lying after Fonti claimed, in which case they probably assume that Xivii is traitor.

 

[Malakandra]

I think so. Very few viable wagons, the alternative was in himself. Both go against wincon, but one self preserves because other scum don’t know he’s scum. So he muddies enough to survive.

To the top, his best post from town perspective was to never unclaim if he’s truly town. Cause all he did was take a **** on town doing so.

The only case I see Xivii yeeting main scum over himself would be the goon, and even then I don't think its a likely thing, he also could of jumped on Laserguy at that point, since I really don't see us getting all three viable wagons as scum day 1. I don't see him yeeting the roleblocker which stops Fonti from being confirmed. I don't think traitor Xivii ever yeets an actual scummate PR over himself.

UtopianPoyzin Is the traitor told the roles their scummates have or just the names?

 

[Rajam]

k I prefer to post this now, I'm too close to getting hammered and I'll be V/LA in a few moments. I would've preferred to post this during twilight if I bit the dust because then my words would be taken deeper to heart, but as said I might not be even around during twilight

The next might look as pure WIFOM and is also ironic because it totally applies to me. Still gonna say it:

While reading the beginning of D2 I started to think a bit more about the NKill, because.... it's dumb af. I mean scum just lost the only guy who could've messed with fontisian's claim. Fontisian is obviously very good at this game, and with roleblocker gone his towniness was gonna be 100% confirmed. Why leave fontisian alive?

My theory might seem farfetched but I think its totally plausible: frozen sniffed NSG as town cop. Posted it in the mafia log. His partners though... probably werent very communicative. Maybe didnt even post in the mafia chat. Because... they were replacing out.

Z25 and ExLight replace in, although super late. They see in the mafia chat frozen's observation regarding who's the neapolitan and decide to go with it. Probably due to time constraints didn't properly consider the implications of fonti's claim and leaving her(?) alive. I know, ironic, i fit in there too, blah blah. w/e

Rereading the beginning of D2, this ExLight's comment put me to think about this theory:

"UtopianPoyzin said:
8. Factional communication (mafiatalk, masontalk) is restricted to the night phase only, so faction talking is not allowed during the day. Factional communication is allowed at all times.

ExLight's response:
and did this change before or after the game started?
if the latter, when?"

Maybe he saw frozen talking alone in the scum chat and wondered what was happening?

At the end, I just want you all to consider this: If Z25 flips mafia at any point, ExLight's chances of being mafioso skyrocket

---

Even if you don't believe nothing of what I just said, you have to admit leaving confirmed-town-fontisian alive isn't the cleverest move by scum's side. And it makes you wonder what the hell was scum thinking.

 

[Rajam]

Also

request votecount

 

[ExLight]

Why does everyone try to put me in their pocket?

I'm literally trying to get you killed though

 

[ExLight]

Maybe he saw frozen talking alone in the scum chat and wondered what was happening?

LOL
ok this is hilariously ridiculous

 

[fontisian]

Look, friends, the only way Xivii is scum is if he's the traitor, and if he's the traitor, he's with Boom and Laser anyway, so yeeting Boom -> Rajam -> Laser is still the game winning strategy.

How do I know this? Here's Xivii's first post:

3DSNinja - town (probability)
Jackrito - scum (number 2 slot)
Trisscar - town (number 3 slot)
Fontisian - town (process of elimination)
#HBC | FrozeηFlame - town (hasn't confirmed which is a town tell)
Chaco - scum (lurking)
Somitomi - town (playing to his meta)
Darkpit54 - scum (frozen)
Raxxel - town (meta)
BoomFrog - (hasn't confirmed which is a scum tell)
Xivii - town (first to post)
LaserGuy - town (isn't online but has confirmed which means eagerly confirmed early)

 

[BoomFrog]

NSG was very very likely to be a PR and would be confirmed when they claimed eventualy. And because chocolate and visitor had claimed NSG was Neo or mason. Targeting a probably PR over "merely" confirmed town Fonti makes sense.

 

[BoomFrog]

yeeting Boom -> Rajam -> Laser

Can we do Rajam -> Boom -> Laser , since Rajam already claimed? Just in case I'm a PR.

 

[fontisian]

Can we do Rajam -> Boom -> Laser , since Rajam already claimed? Just in case I'm a PR.

I'm going to need assurances from a majority of players that they will be forcing you to claim and most likely yeeting you Tomorrow in the event I die Tonight.

 

[BoomFrog]

I'm going to need assurances from a majority of players that they will be forcing you to claim and most likely yeeting you Tomorrow in the event I die Tonight.

Such familiar music, isn't it Xivii...

 

[ExLight]

Look, friends, the only way Xivii is scum is if he's the traitor, and if he's the traitor, he's with Boom and Laser anyway, so yeeting Boom -> Rajam -> Laser is still the game winning strategy.

How do I know this? Here's Xivii's first post:

that feels like a stretch tbh
but if Laser and/or Boom flip scum I'd start considering the theory of him using the word "confirmed" as a way to signal traitor maybe

 

[fontisian]

that feels like a stretch tbh
but if Laser and/or Boom flip scum I'd start considering the theory of him using the word "confirmed" as a way to signal traitor maybe

I'm pretty sure that's exactly how Xivii would signal his team as the traitor, because he softed in a similar manner to boomfrog with joke reads list in Sumting. It could be a coincidence, but I'm suspicious of Boom and Laser without that, so there's nothing wrong with posting another reason to yeet them.

Anyway, it doesn't really matter. Xivii doesn't rescind his chocolate claim as group scum, he only does it as town or as the traitor wanting to make sure his team doesn't shoot him. Don't yeet him.

 

[LaserGuy]

LaserGuy's reaction is very worryingly low key. Laser has never doubted Xivii's claim for a minute. It feels like TMI. He was also never bothered by Xivii's "I'm so town" antics. I'm putting LG as #2 scum, but I'd prefer Rajam yeet today still. https://smashboards.com/threads/mid...12th-at-8-pm-est.505778/page-38#post-24008077

I've never really had any trouble reading Zen playing as Zen. His play in this game is basically identical to B99 (including tunneling me early D1 according to my notes) and I picked him out as Town there on page 1. In SS I had him as Town for D1, but I was sure he was scum from D2 on, I just was unfortunately dead at the time.

He's lied about his role in basically every game I played with him. He lied about being a cop in Crossover. He lied about the mechanics of his governor role in Stellaris. I think he lied about being bulletproof in B99 or maybe having the sash? I don't remember the latter half of that game very well as I died early there, but it was something like that. He was Town in all of those games. This is part of his meta... so, no, I don't find it that surprising that he lied about his role here and I'm still >90% confident he's going to flip Town if it comes to that. It's just what he does. I feel like you should know all of this.

Also, I clearly said that I didn't trust the claim, I just thought that he was Town on play, e.g. 657 and 582.

 

[Chaco]

I'm literally trying to get you killed though

You wont though so it’s inconsequential

 

[Darkpit54]

Anyway, it doesn't really matter. Xivii doesn't rescind his chocolate claim as group scum, he only does it as town or as the traitor wanting to make sure his team doesn't shoot him. Don't yeet him.

Fully agree with this. Xivii could be traitor (we've kinda speculated this for a while tbh), but I don't see him as main scum.

Can we do Rajam -> Boom -> Laser , since Rajam already claimed? Just in case I'm a PR.

I'm going to need assurances from a majority of players that they will be forcing you to claim and most likely yeeting you Tomorrow in the event I die Tonight.

I can get down with this, though quite frankly, I doubt you'll die Tonight. Mafia will more likely be mason hunting, judging from last Night.

 

[BoomFrog]

Also, I clearly said that I didn't trust the claim, I just thought that he was Town on play, e.g. 657 and 582.

Mmm. That tracks. I'd forgotten about that. Scummy points rescinded.

 

[BoomFrog]

IIn SS I had him as Town for D1, but I was sure he was scum from D2 on

I'd love to know how, but this thread isn't really the place for it. Maybe post it in a spoiler if you have extra time.

 

[Chaco]

I want to like Boom so much but the desire to yeet is just to strong

 

[Chaco]

I want Boom before Rajam, but I’m likely to get overstepped here. Much more to go off of moving forward with Boom.

 

[LaserGuy]

I'd love to know how, but this thread isn't really the place for it. Maybe post it in a spoiler if you have extra time.

Ask osie for access to the unconfirmed spectator chat. I have a lot of notes there and Wiisp and I have some good discussions. Short answer is that I got there mostly through his BS read on bessie.

 

[Z25]

Interesting. What happened to your assessment that I don't bus? How does my role change that? Additionally, why do you think scum!me retracts if I had a free ride to endgame?

Did you not see what I said, I'm betting your the traitor trying to get paranoia out there.Which unless I read wrong, you wouldn't know who the mates are, thus you wouldn't know if your busing or not.

k I prefer to post this now, I'm too close to getting hammered and I'll be V/LA in a few moments. I would've preferred to post this during twilight if I bit the dust because then my words would be taken deeper to heart, but as said I might not be even around during twilight

The next might look as pure WIFOM and is also ironic because it totally applies to me. Still gonna say it:

While reading the beginning of D2 I started to think a bit more about the NKill, because.... it's dumb af. I mean scum just lost the only guy who could've messed with fontisian's claim. Fontisian is obviously very good at this game, and with roleblocker gone his towniness was gonna be 100% confirmed. Why leave fontisian alive?

My theory might seem farfetched but I think its totally plausible: frozen sniffed NSG as town cop. Posted it in the mafia log. His partners though... probably werent very communicative. Maybe didnt even post in the mafia chat. Because... they were replacing out.

Z25 and ExLight replace in, although super late. They see in the mafia chat frozen's observation regarding who's the neapolitan and decide to go with it. Probably due to time constraints didn't properly consider the implications of fonti's claim and leaving her(?) alive. I know, ironic, i fit in there too, blah blah. w/e

Rereading the beginning of D2, this ExLight's comment put me to think about this theory:

"UtopianPoyzin said:
8. Factional communication (mafiatalk, masontalk) is restricted to the night phase only, so faction talking is not allowed during the day. Factional communication is allowed at all times.

ExLight's response:
and did this change before or after the game started?
if the latter, when?"

Maybe he saw frozen talking alone in the scum chat and wondered what was happening?

At the end, I just want you all to consider this: If Z25 flips mafia at any point, ExLight's chances of being mafioso skyrocket

---

Even if you don't believe nothing of what I just said, you have to admit leaving confirmed-town-fontisian alive isn't the cleverest move by scum's side. And it makes you wonder what the hell was scum thinking.

This logic makes no sense if you look at 3ds's actions. He may not have been saying much but he was present in the game. He would have been doing way better if he was scum as he would more then likely be getting coached quite well by FF.

 

[Z25]

Unvote

Zen is very likely traitor but it is fair that we don't need to lynch him.

However we still need to decide between Raj or Boom it seems. Both of which I feel have equal merits for being yeeted, and I'm fine with choosing either.

 

[Xivii]

Did you not see what I said, I'm betting your the traitor trying to get paranoia out there.Which unless I read wrong, you wouldn't know who the mates are, thus you wouldn't know if your busing or not.

Traitor is informed of who the entire scumteam is.

 

[ExLight]

would a traitor really blindly bus a scumate D1 instead of getting lynched though
I guess a traitor getting lynched doesn't give the main mafia much towncred as opposed to the other way around but still

 

[Chaco]

would a traitor really blindly bus a scumate D1 instead of getting lynched though
I guess a traitor getting lynched doesn't give the main mafia much towncred as opposed to the other way around but still

I would. Cause your wincon is scum majority. If you did as traitor you don’t win with mafia. Vice verse is still a win.

 

[fontisian]

Ok, I think I want BoomFrog to claim. If you're claiming mason, don't specify which one.

If he claims mason, I want absolutely no one else to counterclaim or do anything to indicate that you think he's lying. We just yeet Rajam and figure it out Tomorrow.

Once more for emphasis, if Boomfrog claims mason, do not cc or indicate in any way that you do not believe him.

Chaco ExLight Xivii Trisscar Darkpit54 Malakandra Z25 LaserGuy Rajam

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

UtopianPoyzin UtopianPoyzin Is the traitor told the roles their scummates have or just the names?

Just names