Midnight Ops Mafia: Game Thread. Game Over!

[Rajam]

@#HBC | FrozeηFlame You should claim.

why would that even matter? If they're scum they'll last second fake claim to save themselves and find out another power role

imo this comes from town mentality

 

[Darkpit54]

Wow I missed a lot lol. Idk what time zones you guys are in but I can't stay up that late for this lol

Don't really know what to make of Xivii's fake claim, but scum would have no reason to reveal that it was fake. I still confidently think he's town

Xivii what was the plan if Neo investigated you? No worry cause youd pop for him?

Xivii already addressed this, but I really don't like this post. Neap would never target a chocolate claim, and this is blatantly trying to figure out of Xivii is a mason or not

I think a Boom lynch would probably get us more information depending on the flip but I feel more confident that Raj is scum

Unvote

 

[Z25]

If you had a reads list ready at this point when you'd just caught up, why did it take you until D2 to post a reads list?

1) because I had to finalize some things and actually type it out. Hence why I said had reads but may not have finished typing it out before deadline. Hence why my vote was late.

If you read more and saw Zen’s post tagging me to vote and finish my list later, this would be obvious.

2) I didn’t finish typing it out before deadline which is why i put out right away today.

I know Jack didn't have a lot of content by why did he lose all credit for "a great post" later in your reads list?

I reviewed him again as he had a lack of content, and more of his posts just felt off from town jack. He didn’t see to be trying to much.

 

[Chaco]

Rajam i don’t think that’s town indicative because it’s an open setup.

Xivii already addressed this, but I really don't like this post. Neap would never target a chocolate claim, and this is blatantly trying to figure out of Xivii is a mason or not

I think a Boom lynch would probably get us more information depending on the flip but I feel more confident that Raj is scum

Unvote

Didn’t see it. Regardless of whether you like the post or not the simple fact remains. Xivii pulled something that truthfully held no town value and not questioning it allows his vague gambits to continue. So we are supposed to take it as face value and not push further into it? Erratic behavior and stunting a fake claim in an open set up. That helps town how?

It is not blatant at all trying to figure out if Xivii is a mason. He’s vanilla or scum and it’s obvious.

Darkpit you’re ultra townie, but don’t allow yourself to get sheeped. Cause right now you are.

 

[Chaco]

I literally read the part where he said I retract my claim and was like of course he does, and went on.

 

[Chaco]

Hey let’s force the real chocolate to claim if there is one and let me play my gambit into a whole other day phase aside from my original gambit draw NK.

Lets run the opportunity of a mislynch because I want to rolefish and then blame others for doing so.

The information was present enough to vouch for itself, forcing a CC is blatantly anti town. STANDARD MILLER PLAY IS TO CLAIM D1.

 

[Chaco]

Heads out of asses. Viable Lynch pool remains. Stop following every rabbit trail that Xivii baits.

 

[BoomFrog]

Boom could you address the actual case I made and not the TMI speculation which plays no role into my read.

What actual case? That I purposely am keeping Z25 below Rajam? First of all, what purpose could I have to care about the position of those two? You guys aren't going to yeet based off my reads. Whether Z is above or below Rajam is going to have 0 effect on the game state so I wouldn't bother manipulating that for my nefarious schemes. Z suprised me in sumthin' sumthin' by the strong townie defense of pytho. But yeah, you're right, Z doesn't think too many layers deep, that line probably does deserve more townie points. But it's not a slam dunk town Z. I'd still like an answer to my question about the disappearing reads list. But I could get behind Rajam yeet if we aren't going for ExLight. I still want to let Rajam make a real reads list off of all of D1 even if they aren't going to fully catch up.

 

[Chaco]

You have to understand that some slots over complicate the game. Because town your motive is to scumhunt, anything aside from that is anti town. Your actions speak for themselves because there is no ulterior or inside knowledge sans a potential town clear. So as information manifests, you continue along with it. Gambitting this that and the third for no other reason other than to be convoluted is grossly anti town and inhibiting to all players, except scum.

thanks for coming to my ted talk.

 

[Xivii]

Chaco check out the wiki on red herring fallacy. Your defense has nothing to do with the argument we're making

 

[Chaco]

I know what a red herring is. You’re good at those, but not in town favor.

 

[Chaco]

There is no defense to the argument your making cause the argument is fabricated.

 

[Rajam]

I finished reading D1 and my reads haven't changed that much since last I posted them:

fontizian: cleared mechanics-wise, pinned frozen, initial plan in his (her?) 1st post was super townie, and overall townie attitude
Chaco / DarkPit: Both slots are a bit the same; no specific posts that caused a strong impression but rather their whole gameplay has caused that; no post of them so far ringed the scum bell for me. Solid town reads
Malakandra: Some specific posts I've already quoted make me think he/she is town. Overall townie play as well, no scum bell ringing at any point
trisscar: Basically in the same situation as Malakandra; frozen's words about the slot, and the timing of trisscar's vote on frozen makes me think he/she is town. A step below fonti, Chaco, DarkPit and Malakandra, but still solid town read
Zen: cleared via mechanics, null otherwise until claiming not chocolate, which as scum makes no sense. Solid town too

somitomi / ExLight / LaserGuy: Legit null. Wasn't liking somitomi absence but I guess is understandable as they were replacing out. I've tried to read Laser but I just can't make my mind around this slot. Their actions during the end of D1 were lackluster: both of them voting for targets with 0 chance of getting the hammer and not doing the work to convince people to shift their ways, but both of them had a somewhat valid excuse: ExLight was just replacing in, Laser told he/she wasn't up to date with the last pages. Laser is a bit scummier than ExLight imo tho since I think I've seen some town tells from ExLight, although nothing that conclusive

BoomFrog / Z25: I've already digged and pointed out things about these slots. Their lack of a stronger presence during the end of D1 is also a plus against them. If anything I still stand that BoomFrog and Laser aren't scummates though.

Overall I'm super highly confident in my town reads, more than I am in the couple of scumreads I have (I am confident in those, I'm more confident in my town reads though). I'm ok with that anyways, lynching by PoE its fine for me

 

[Xivii]

Red herring fallacy is when the arguer talks about something completely irrelevant to the argument as if it is, detracting from what the point was.

Our Argument: you were trying verify I was VT instead of Mason

Your Defense: How was his claim helpful to town?

 

[BoomFrog]

But it's not a slam dunk town Z. I'd still like an answer to my question about the disappearing reads list.

Ahh, missed a page before posting. This was answered.

because I had to finalize some things and actually type it out. Hence why I said had reads but may not have finished typing it out before deadline. Hence why my vote was late.

You said on July 3rd that you "have a reads list" https://smashboards.com/threads/mid...12th-at-8-pm-est.505778/page-13#post-23999726

but then on the 5th a few hours before dead say "next post is my reads list" https://smashboards.com/threads/mid...12th-at-8-pm-est.505778/page-23#post-24002073
then run out of time and post it on D2. I'm fine with the EoD stuff, scrabeling to write the reads list and priortizing voting makes sense. But what does "have a reads list" mean on July 3rd?

 

[Xivii]

I like how Raj did the thing with Chac / DP that Fonti pointed out Frozen doing with Jack / DP.

I'm drunker than Ex with all the wine Raj is serving.

 

[Chaco]

Red herring fallacy is when the arguer talks about something completely irrelevant to the argument as if it is, detracting from what the point was.

Our Argument: you were trying verify I was VT instead of Mason

Your Defense: How was his claim helpful to town?

Your argument is fabricated. The two options, which once again were obvious, scum or vanilla should be self evident. Why would I role fish you of all people for masonry? Once again, it’s so ridiculous that you look at us as rolefishing cause it’s to easy for you to try and manipulate it to appear as such.

You’re deflecting from the cause of the whole issue which was your decision to lone wolf instead of play to towns power.

 

[Chaco]

And as a PR you always confirm for confirmations sake. A new player might not have targeted you, but you’d have been targeted all the same.

 

[BoomFrog]

And here's something I didn't like from Boom:

The "Looks like I'm allowed to post still" is hella awkward and self aware. I feel like a town in this situation who desperately trying to get their last thoughts in before the thread locks as they see their top scum Xivii killing yeeting just says something like "if FF flips town, font and xivii are scum." The "and I'm dead d2" isn't necessary, imo, because town!Boom would be worried about the apparent stranglehold Xivii and I had on the game, and would be worried about us controlling town whether he died or not. The whole post is actually really wordy for someone pressed for time who's trying to get their thoughts out before the Day ends.

"Looks like I'm allowed to post still" was a preapology to the mod if I was incorrect but I didn't want to take the time to look at the OP to see what the rules were for twilight. I'm somewhat new to these forums and some of the assumed rules are different. On my home forum posting after deadline is not allowed even if the mod doesn't post. the "if I'm dead" part was to preempt people calling me out D2 if I was alive but changed my mind. My death was extra evidence that Xivii was scum because he fears me. If I'm alive D2 that reduces the chance of scum Xivii and gives me time to reevaluate. So I only wanted the post to be taken seriously if I was dead.

 

[Xivii]

If it were evident, you wouldn't have asked me, we're going in circles. Why couldn't I be Mason???

 

[BoomFrog]

And as a PR you always confirm for confirmations sake. A new player might not have targeted you, but you’d have been targeted all the same.

This part is just wrong Chaco. No Neo with any shread of competency would target a claimed chocolate. 99% of scenarios that check will give no info. This is the least of the flaws in Xivii's plan, by a lot.

 

[Darkpit54]

Phase ends in two days and I'm super confused lol

I'm willing to flash yeet Rajam.

So anyway let's flash yeet Rajam

Vote: Rajam

Xivii you wanted to end toDay quickly, making me think you had no intention of revoking your claim toDay. What made you change your mind?

 

[Chaco]

This part is just wrong Chaco. No Neo with any shread of competency would target a claimed chocolate. 99% of scenarios that check will give no info. This is the least of the flaws in Xivii's plan, by a lot.

So when Xivii continues on down this path and you’re telling me he wouldn’t be suss later in game and not get targeted when the role could not even exist? Regardless of what it comes back it’s information to the former or positive.

 

[Chaco]

No mason would try to draw NK and then claim chocolate. Let’s be real. But then again, who knows if you would or not.

 

[Xivii]

Phase ends in two days and I'm super confused lol




Xivii you wanted to end toDay quickly, making me think you had no intention of revoking your claim toDay. What made you change your mind?

Hmmm idk wanted people's thoughts on whether there was a traitor.

 

[Chaco]

Let’s say he revokes a claim late game and tries to claim VT. Neo fact check intervenes.

Standard play here isn’t the case, it’s scenarios that’s further down the road. Obviously N1 he would not be targeted.

 

[BoomFrog]

Also, Rajam did not impress. I'll yeet Rajam or Exlight but I'm preferring Rajam. His read list is just a regurgitation of consensus. I think town!Rajam would have put Laser as scum.

Vote Rajam

 

[Chaco]

Hmmm idk wanted people's thoughts on whether there was a traitor.

Asked and answered D1.

 

[Chaco]

You can’t run off the standard impression of how this should be played out with the info at hand, it’s all relevant to the information provided. You’re operating under the assumption that I’m not going with him revoking claim.

 

[Chaco]

Replace mason fishing with scum and then you’ll be on the right track.

Xivii is no longer cleared town. Operating under that assumption isn’t smart.

 

[Chaco]

“Anyways” is indicative of same answer.

 

[Malakandra]

I retract my claim btw. I claimed when I did to force real Chocolate, if there was one, to counterclaim, at which point I would have recanted. When there wasn't one, I decided to continue with it to see if there were players overly suspicious of the claim (indicating that they were mafia who knew that the number of ninja shots didn't line up with my claim). Based on Boom's post here and his refusal to believe my claim, I'm thinking there is probably 1 ninja shot and we are in the Visitor + Traitor scenario:


Here's my analysis of why Fonti is town. I made this yesterday in response to you Mala, but decided not to post it since it would have revealed that I wasn't actually Chocolate. I couldn't retract at that point since I had a wagon building on me, and doing so would have probably led to my execution:

Spoiler

If scum has 0 ninja shots, they know there is exactly a traitor + chocolate. Since I haven't been counterclaimed, we know that we aren't in that scenario.

If scum has 1 ninja shot, scum knew there was either visitor + traitor or lone chocolate. Me claiming chocolate confirmed that they weren't in the visitor + traitor scenario so scum!Fonti could freely claim visitor here. However since I'm not actually chocolate, if there was 1 ninja shot, we actually would be in the visitor + traitor scenario, so Fonti would be counterclaimed. So since there is no cc, she is not scum here either.

If scum has 2 ninja shots, they know there is a visitor + chocolate + traitor or a lone visitor. Since I claimed chocolate, scum would know there was also a visitor and scum!Font couldn't claim it. So she's not scum here either.

If scum has 3 ninja shots, they know there is a visitor + chocolate. So scum!Fonti couldn't claim visitor here either.

So in all scenarios, Fonti is genuinely the visitor. The lines that are bolded are the potential realities that we are actually in: Scum either has 1 ninja shot and we have a visitor (fonti) + a traitor or scum has 2 ninja shots and we only have a visitor (fonti).

I didn't realize until today, however, that there was the possibility of no traitor, visitor, or chocolate. In which case scum!Fonti could safely claim Visitor if they had 0 shots. But based on all the voy crumbs, Fonti's play, and her push on Frozen, I doubt we're in that scenario anyway.

So, Fonti is town which means we have a visitor and no chocolate. So if there is a traitor, scum has 1 ninja shot. Or if there is no traitor, scum has 2 ninja shots. If scum had 2 ninja shots, they would not know if I was lying because they could be in either the visitor + chocolate + traitor scenario. If they had 1 ninja shot, they would know I was lying because 1 ninja shot only allows for a lone chocolate or a visitor + traitor so it wouldn't add up.

Hence I refer back to the post above by Boom. His confusion here and refusal to believe my claim leads me to believe that we are indeed in the 1 ninja shot scenario, which means that we do indeed have a traitor in the mix.

Screams into the endless void

Couldn't you have just posted this a little earlier so I didn't have to wake up to this crap, gah.


Like, we get it, your town man, you don't have to do all this. Like scum Xivii has no reason to out that he got away with being cleared, except to make me feel better about myself for being right about the claim being easily faked, even if I was wrong about alignment, but yah, no actual reason to admit this. Not even sure if I should bother to try to read Xivii rationally in the future, but whatever. Your town this game and thats all that matters for this game. Now time to read the 2 pages worth of content this must have spawned, maybe something good will come out of this whole mess after all.

But like seriously, why do you do this? Like, the idea was dumb in the first place, if we had an actual chocolate townie and you walked your claim back you would have been the yeet day 1.

 

[Chaco]

Then again he waits til he can’t be confirmed to be retract. Also hmm points.

 

[BoomFrog]

Boom could you address the actual case I made and not the TMI speculation which plays no role into my read.

I decided to continue with it to see if there were players overly suspicious of the claim (indicating that they were mafia who knew that the number of ninja shots didn't line up with my claim). Based on Boom's post here and his refusal to believe my claim

So you are not talking about me in the bolded? Stop contridicting yourself. No more gambits, no more fake opinions to get a reaction, no more unserious votes. You are causing the same problems UP did in Oasis with your fancy play syndrome. You've burned up all your credit. If you keep this up and we also don't hit scum then you are going to get my postmortem finger of doom. And if you are town you are going to lose the game for us.

 

[Z25]

Ahh, missed a page before posting. This was answered.

You said on July 3rd that you "have a reads list" https://smashboards.com/threads/mid...12th-at-8-pm-est.505778/page-13#post-23999726

but then on the 5th a few hours before dead say "next post is my reads list" https://smashboards.com/threads/mid...12th-at-8-pm-est.505778/page-23#post-24002073
then run out of time and post it on D2. I'm fine with the EoD stuff, scrabeling to write the reads list and priortizing voting makes sense. But what does "have a reads list" mean on July 3rd?

Like I just said, I had a reads list in my head. It was not written out. I’m figured that was obvious based on my later points.

A lot was going on EOD that I did not get to finish finalizing it. Not to mention the swap out of jack made me have to rewrite, as well as the ex swap. I was going to talk more on their original slots but with switch ins it became kinda of pointless. I didn’t finish it in time due to everything I had to take into account as I formulated my opinions and views.

 

[BoomFrog]

Screams into the endless void

This so much.

Actually... something is missing... I'll give it a few hours just to make sure.

 

[BoomFrog]

Actually, nm, Z25 Are you all caught up on the thread? What is your opinion on current events?

 

[Z25]

Zen’s claim revoke is very problematic.

It’s exactly what I talked abo day one, on how Boom’s post telling chocolate to claim right away or they couldn’t be proven if claiming later. Which Zen specifically waited till later to do so, making that sketchy. However no counter claim seemed to pay it off.

Again though, I mentioned scum Zen could easily take the gambit that there was no chocolate. The ninja shots if he was scum could give him confidence to do so.

That whole claim was just shady. I let it slide due to no counter claim, but I don’t know.

Zen is also the same guy who was town and faked multiple cop checks so I don’t even know how he plays so reckless.

But you know what, I’d rather get answers from him once and for all. Ran can wait, and so can boom.


Vote: Xivii

Although I have a feeling he’s traitor, but scum would make his own gambit seems more plausible.

 

[Z25]

Actually, nm, Z25 Are you all caught up on the thread? What is your opinion on current events?

I am, see the above post.

 

[Chaco]

So you are not talking about me in the bolded? Stop contridicting yourself. No more gambits, no more fake opinions to get a reaction, no more unserious votes. You are causing the same problems UP did in Oasis with your fancy play syndrome. You've burned up all your credit. If you keep this up and we also don't hit scum then you are going to get my postmortem finger of doom. And if you are town you are going to lose the game for us.

100% this.

His likelihood of being traitor is ever increasing. No point in retracting from town PoV cause he’s cleared. Only reason to do so is not to become an NK target.