Midnight Ops Mafia: Game Thread. Game Over!

[Rajam]

If FF is not scum, we really should look at Zen tomorrow. I’m trying to finish typing my list but if thread gets locked, it will go up next day phase.

One final thing. Scum Z25 never makes this post right before FF flip:
Boom yes, Z25 no. Town!Boom would clear the heck out of Z25 for this post, but he's only giving him minor town points because he needs Z to be a viable execution candidate to fit his agenda.

Why do you think this Xivii? I think you're looking at it too much from your own town-perspective. I know, at least in my case when I'm scum, I usually put a lot of fake 'if's' during lynch/twilight time just to put distance if a scum partner has just been lynched

 

[Rajam]

I retract my claim btw. I claimed when I did to force real Chocolate, if there was one, to counterclaim, at which point I would have recanted. When there wasn't one, I decided to continue with it to see if there were players overly suspicious of the claim (indicating that they were mafia who knew that the number of ninja shots didn't line up with my claim). Based on Boom's post here and his refusal to believe my claim, I'm thinking there is probably 1 ninja shot and we are in the Visitor + Traitor scenario:


Here's my analysis of why Fonti is town. I made this yesterday in response to you Mala, but decided not to post it since it would have revealed that I wasn't actually Chocolate. I couldn't retract at that point since I had a wagon building on me, and doing so would have probably led to my execution:

Spoiler

If scum has 0 ninja shots, they know there is exactly a traitor + chocolate. Since I haven't been counterclaimed, we know that we aren't in that scenario.

If scum has 1 ninja shot, scum knew there was either visitor + traitor or lone chocolate. Me claiming chocolate confirmed that they weren't in the visitor + traitor scenario so scum!Fonti could freely claim visitor here. However since I'm not actually chocolate, if there was 1 ninja shot, we actually would be in the visitor + traitor scenario, so Fonti would be counterclaimed. So since there is no cc, she is not scum here either.

If scum has 2 ninja shots, they know there is a visitor + chocolate + traitor or a lone visitor. Since I claimed chocolate, scum would know there was also a visitor and scum!Font couldn't claim it. So she's not scum here either.

If scum has 3 ninja shots, they know there is a visitor + chocolate. So scum!Fonti couldn't claim visitor here either.

So in all scenarios, Fonti is genuinely the visitor. The lines that are bolded are the potential realities that we are actually in: Scum either has 1 ninja shot and we have a visitor (fonti) + a traitor or scum has 2 ninja shots and we only have a visitor (fonti).

I didn't realize until today, however, that there was the possibility of no traitor, visitor, or chocolate. In which case scum!Fonti could safely claim Visitor if they had 0 shots. But based on all the voy crumbs, Fonti's play, and her push on Frozen, I doubt we're in that scenario anyway.

So, Fonti is town which means we have a visitor and no chocolate. So if there is a traitor, scum has 1 ninja shot. Or if there is no traitor, scum has 2 ninja shots. If scum had 2 ninja shots, they would not know if I was lying because they could be in either the visitor + chocolate + traitor scenario. If they had 1 ninja shot, they would know I was lying because 1 ninja shot only allows for a lone chocolate or a visitor + traitor so it wouldn't add up.

Hence I refer back to the post above by Boom. His confusion here and refusal to believe my claim leads me to believe that we are indeed in the 1 ninja shot scenario, which means that we do indeed have a traitor in the mix.

Can't say I'm surprised, you pull this kind of stuff all the time. If anything it makes me feel better about your slot and solidify the town lean to townfirmed. I hope you're able to differentiate from scum-with-1-ninja-shot-knowing-you-were-lying from paranoid-legit_suspicious-townies. I think you're looking too much from the perspective scum-had-1-ninja-shot when it's basically a 50%-50% chance with the possibility of scum having 2 ninja shots (in which case don't you think the scummers would've most likely left you just be? O_o). At the end I want to tell you this: Don't look from the perspective of how many ninja-shots scum had, just try to figure out intentions as per usual

 

[ExLight]

It doesn’t help when you post a walk of text that is brimming with appeals to emotions which directly coincides with how I said you could be floundering from the position FF put you in. You’re the one making 1+1=2. We aren’t fabricating the things that make you inherently scummy.

I don’t know anything of your meta, and I don’t care about meta currently. What I care about is the fact whenever you get pressured you blow up, and when it drops for a moment you go right back to normal. To be so blatantly AtE laden and then wonder why you look scummy in addendum to things already posted.

tl;dr stay away from the AtEs

Connection basis alone, which is outside of your specific play, is enough to lynch on here. There’s a distinct pattern.

I barely understood a thing you said

Yea, I often appeal to AtE because I'm spontaneous k thanks
when reasoning falls on deaf ears what else am I supposed to do?

"We aren’t fabricating the things that make you inherently scummy", lol
all you have against me is gut feeling but you deny that and try to look for a more "legitimate" excuse, that's literally fabricating things

the only "scummy" thing I did was to be not wanting to join the leading wagon for no reason after I subbed in and surprisingly that has been brought up a lot less than any other stupid arguments like "yOu WeRe FaKiNg To Be DrUnK" and "yOu ArE sCuM rEaDiNg DaRkPiT" which are both just straight up lies.

 

[Chaco]

So the basis of the entirety of my push on you is from FFs treatment of your predecessor, I said your behavior supports the notion. Which it does. It’s not fabrication, it’s pretty plain to see.

 

[Chaco]

Xivii what was the plan if Neo investigated you? No worry cause youd pop for him?

 

[ExLight]

So the basis of the entirety of my push on you is from FFs treatment of your predecessor

confirmed scum trying to lynch me makes me scummy?

 

[Chaco]

confirmed scum trying to lynch me makes me scummy?

Knowing Frozen and the fact that Somi was grossly inactive, yes. It’s visible connection to the slot. I’ve already laid it out, and if you weren’t on the receiving end, you’d agree it’s a compelling argument. Sorry that you replaced where you did.

 

[ExLight]

or alternatively scum was trying to lynch someone that wasn't trying to defend themselves because they thought it was an easy lynch

it's kinda insane that you're considering the idea of scum trying to early bus D1 for literally no reason

 

[Xivii]

I'm not scum though, pinkie swear

dammit you know my weakness

I don't think I'd be too active in it unfortunately

As Triss said you don't have to be. Just check it out and if it's trash you can leave anytime or just not post anything. But if this is just your way of kindly telling me to **** off then iight

Why do you think this Xivii? I think you're looking at it too much from your own town-perspective. I know, at least in my case when I'm scum, I usually put a lot of fake 'if's' during lynch/twilight time just to put distance if a scum partner has just been lynched

Like I said, I'd expect someone like Boom to do so as scum, as he did. It's not the type of move Z would make however.

At the end I want to tell you this: Don't look from the perspective of how many ninja-shots scum had, just try to figure out intentions as per usual

This goes without saying. The number of ninja shots / traitor is just speculation. Based on play alone, there doesn't appear to be a traitor, unless Chaco or Mala is a deep wolf.

Xivii what was the plan if Neo investigated you? No worry cause youd pop for him?

This goes without saying. Plus it would be pretty bad for them to investigate me considering I'd either be scum lying or Chocolate telling the truth, in which case investigating me would tell them nothing.

 

[Xivii]

fontisian how certain are you on Chaco?

 

[Xivii]

NonSpecificGuy your new avatar is swag af

 

[ExLight]

wait, wait, wait
if scum knew you were lying why didn't they counterclaim?

 

[ExLight]

now that I think about it, them counterclaiming would've caused them to get "confirmed" basically

should we theorize that they didn't know for sure or should we consider that they just goofed and missed an oppotunity?

 

[Xivii]

They couldn't know I was lying unless they had 0 shots. And in that case, it's not necessarily the case that they would want to take the risk.

 

[ExLight]

hmm
I guess?

 

[ExLight]

doesn't that invalidate your argument against boom that he knew you were lying though?

 

[ExLight]

I guess they could be sure about finding the traitor and thus being confused about it anyway though hmm

 

[Xivii]

doesn't that invalidate your argument against boom that he knew you were lying though?

No. If they had 1 shot, they would know that either I or Fonti was lying, but they couldn't know which for sure, so they couldn't counter claim.

 

[Xivii]

And yeah they would probably think one of us was traitor.

 

[Xivii]

That being said, I don't think it's a solid argument against Boom at all. It's just speculation really.

 

[ExLight]

I think it's a valid speculation
a bit odd he'd ask that here instead of in the scumchat though

 

[Xivii]

ExLight's not posting like a wolf. And Rajam's Jester-like-wifom is making me suspect that we don't yet have the correct solve. There's been a number of things nagging me about Chaco throughout the game:

• His but no I'm not lurking statement page 1
• His attempt to associate me and boom together early on
• Gunning for me when Fonti had laid out a solid case for why I was town and believing that Fonti could be cleared which would have essentially "cleared" me.
• Promoting a no lynch
• Failing to join the frozen train while pushing a town counterwagon.
• Attempt to get PRs to claim NUMEROUS TIMES. I don't think we can ignore this any longer. On Day 1, he danced around trying to get the Neap to claim early. Today he advocated for masons claiming when it was completely unnecessary. And just now he tried to verify that I was VT.
• If you look at his play throughout today, you'll see that he's been awkward around Rajam and his wagon. There was a post where he said something to the like of "oh Rajam before boom?" like he was caught off guard with the push. He's been hard pushing Boom over Rajam and supported my statement that they aren't partners, coming off to me like he's positioning himself for the future when one of them flips town.

 

[Xivii]

Vote: Rajam

And a Rajam/Chaco team makes Rajam's #1001 make more sense.

 

[Xivii]

The Boom case is still solid though.

I'm thinking Boom Traitor, Chaco/Jam maf makes sense.

 

[Chaco]

Nope not scum Xivii. But the reason I’m not seeing the Rajam wagon truthfully is because he’s so far behind and I know he’s a strong player. And there’s other fish to fry. I was willing to hammer him because I was off so bad on D1 and was questioning my judgement due to that. But I’m fairly confident in my Boom and Ex/Somi case.

and of course I’m gonna support that statement because I see no indication of them being partners.

I don’t remember ever saying a Neo claim.

And lastly, yeah I disbelieved your claim, which seemingly holds true now, doesn’t it? Obviously something was off and now you’re trying to push into me for disbelieving a fake claim?

Why the waffling now?

 

[Xivii]

You just tried to get me to verify I was VT.

 

[Xivii]

And if you're familiar enough with Raj to know he's a strong player, you're familiar enough to know that he's always behind. That's no reason to town read him.

 

[Chaco]

I’m supposed to remember that from 6 years ago? Familiarity is one thing, but knowing that distinction is completely different.

And no I’m trying to discern if there’s another motive behind your claim. If you hadn’t read first post and were playing to draw the NK and thought as traitor you’d get recruited it makes perfect sense why you’d back off of a claim now. Not saying I support that theory but it is plausible.

 

[Chaco]

And honestly I still think mass claim toMorrow is pertinent, but if it goes against everyone else’s desires I’m not gonna continue to push it. Also some of that was due to your claim because there can only be so many VT slots and it was narrowed to a smaller pool with a few already claimed. To me that makes perfect sense to divide and conquer in that aspect. Because truth be told, I don’t see remaining PRs having much influence in game. I think it’s gonna come down to a claim regardless.

 

[Xivii]

I could believe that if it were an isolated event, but this is the third time you've role hunted.

 

[Chaco]

But maybe delayed a bit more now due to a widened Lynch pool because of your fake claim.

Regardless I dont see you as scum, even in the potential that you’re traitor, your Lynch isn’t pertinent because you wouldn’t count towards numbers on scum Win con. I think that’s correct.

 

[Chaco]

It’s not role hunting. If I were role hunting I would bait, not openly be seeking a mass claim. Cmon Xivii.

 

[Chaco]

And every single time I’ve given parameters where it would be effective. Just because you don’t agree with it does not mean it is viable.

 

[Xivii]

Xivii what was the plan if Neo investigated you? No worry cause youd pop for him?

This is bait. Why would you ask this when the answer is obvious enough that you wrote it out

 

[Chaco]

Xivii, one plus one equals to, there’s no point even baiting your role when it’s obvious one of two things. Why would I role fish when you can only be two things. Or does seeking your mindset becoming scummy?

 

[Xivii]

If 1 + 1 = 2, you don't ask someone what 1 + 1 is.

 

[Chaco]

You’ve created enough reasonable doubt around your slot that trying to discern your mindset is the only feasible thing to do. Overall you’re inconsequential if you are traitor, but the whole thing is, why even do all that extra stuff for a while lot of nothing.

If you really wanna talk claims, it was yours that fueled Fonti. Or am I wrong there also?

 

[Chaco]

So there’s not calculus

If 1 + 1 = 2, you don't ask someone what 1 + 1 is.

It had to be proven before it was mathematical fact, correct? In asking why you learn.

 

[BoomFrog]

Jfc xivii. So A) I was completely justified and correct and B) your are accusing me of TMI? You know I always have TMI even as vanilla town. If anything, if I was actually scum and had numbers to prove you were not chocolate I'd have instantly counterclaimed. And if I was confused I'd have asked the mod numbers questions in a PM. Your post is a bunch of horse **** and you know it.

You realize that if you hadn't pulled this bullcrap I'd have stayed on FF and be comfortably almost confirmed town by now?

Also, Chaco and Malak's suspicion of xivii D1 was pure. They are both town. Get off it.

Also, fontisian , I would like acknowledgment that I was right and you were wrong. I will accept these accolades post my flip.

 

[Xivii]

Boom could you address the actual case I made and not the TMI speculation which plays no role into my read.