Midnight Ops Mafia: Game Thread. Game Over!

[Darkpit54]

Unvote

Vote: ExLight

 

[Xivii]

Vote: ExLight
Vote: Boom

accidental hammer?

 

[Chaco]

Accidental hammer? Wut?

 

[BoomFrog]

Scum lean at worst? What is your not-worst read of him then?

Town lean I guess. Traitor existing is only 50/50 and you seem to have something.

 

[BoomFrog]

Accidental hammer? Wut?

Xivii is just enjoying their ability to get away with anything at this point.

 

[BoomFrog]

Malakandra I realize I didn't exactly answer your question. The stuff I remembered not liking about Z25 was all the misunderstandings of game mechanics. It makes it hard to read someone when they are starting from different assumptions then you. But none of the mistakes seemed alignment indicative.

 

[Xivii]

Chaco I haven't checked the vote count so I don't know if I hammered Boom or put him at L-1. I think it's L-1.

Town lean I guess. Traitor existing is only 50/50 and you seem to have something.

So your team currently consists of ExLight and.. ExLight?

 

[BoomFrog]

Anyway, goodnight thread. See you in the morning.

 

[Xivii]

Answer me before you go aye

 

[Xivii]

Also why is traitor existing 50/50?

 

[Xivii]

[4] BoomFrog: Chaco, Lazser, Z25, Xivii
[2] ExLight: Trisscar, Darkpit54
[1] Rajam: Malakandra
[1] Chaco: ExLight
[1] Z25: Rajam

I think that's right

 

[Darkpit54]

Also why is traitor existing 50/50?

According to the setup post it's 50/50 if there is a visitor or a chocolate, which there is. Afaik we haven't seen any definitive evidence for or against its existence, so I'd still say it's about 50/50

 

[Xivii]

Read 3:

Conclusion: Scum lean at worst. I'd much rather go for ExLight. I think I'd put below Rajam, but I want to see Rajam's full reads once they are caught up.

Boom is slipping with regard to his read on Z. In this post, he puts Z below Rajam after looking through Z's posts and coming to the conclusion that he was townier than he thought.

However, he already had Z below Rajam:

Read 2:

Jackrito / Rajam - Jackrito struck me as townie. Rajam has been very neutral, maybe a bit scum-lean since they haven't seemed to add anything new, but I think they are still processing and gathering info. If I had to bet, my gut says town, but could easily be scum. I'll reevaluate when Rajam lays down some serious thoughts.
3DSNinja* / Z25 - Z25 and I never see things from the same perspective so reading him is a bit harder. I recall seeing things I didn't like, and this is one of the places I need a reread.
Somitomi* / ExLight - I really haven't liked anything they have posted. Tunneling on all the wrong players that everyone else town reads for tone is a bit too bold for scum, but could be coming from a place of desperation if all the scum are in the shrinking PoE.

Deeper analysis would jocky the bottom three around. I'll try to find time today to do that.

So he goes from having Z as a scumlean just below Rajam, to Z as a townlean just below Rajam. If the only thing that changed between Read 2 and Read 3 is Z going from a scumlean to a town lean, shouldn't he be above Rajam in Read 3? This discrepancy suggests that Boom has an agenda for keeping Z in this position.


It's also quite odd how Z got to that position in the first place when he had him in the townlean category in his initial read list:

Read 1:

This would be my version of the list.

Never yeet: Fonti, Chaco, Triss, Darkpit, Malakandra

Only Yeet if the below don't end the game: LaserGuy, ExLight, Z25, Xivii

Gonna get yeeted, it makes sense: Boom

Scum Claimed: JackJam

So somehow Z and ExLight went from town leans in Read 1 to below Rajam in Read 2, and Z maintains that position in Read 3 even after he rereads Z and finds him to be townie.

Oh and btw, Boom reiterated how Rajam was his strongest suspect here:

I really shouldn't have kept Rajam at the bottom of the list I copied from Xivii, if Xivii is town the Rajam is the most likely scum by PoE. I really need to resolve my thoughts on Xivii before I can evaluate everyone else.

After Darkpit called him out on having Rajam so low, he made this statement clarifying that Rajam was only his bottom read if I was town. And he has since then resolved his thoughts on me and concluded I am town.



One final thing. Scum Z25 never makes this post right before FF flip:

If FF is not scum, we really should look at Zen tomorrow. I’m trying to finish typing my list but if thread gets locked, it will go up next day phase.

Boom yes, Z25 no. Town!Boom would clear the heck out of Z25 for this post, but he's only giving him minor town points because he needs Z to be a viable execution candidate to fit his agenda.

In conclusion: Boom's read progression is inconsistent and his reads are forced (I didn't even talk about that Jack town read...)

Vote: Boom x2 in the name of Justice

 

[ExLight]

Why?

wdym why
someone pointed out there's only a traitor when a visitor is around

 

[ExLight]

Wow, I say I'll be busy studying for a test and when I check the thread there's another smal wagon forming around me already. For ****s sake guys.

I see you're all with some nonsensical "scum wanted to bus" theory on the rise. Why would scum even want to bus D1. And if they were really dedcated to they would've powerwolfed bus it instead of letting their main power role die.

I'm town and I'm not sure what you all expect from me. I tried catching up and apparently I'm scummy for not having the same context or meta as you all. You keep coming up with the most absurd nitpicks to get me lynched and I'm honestly tired of having wagons on me every game just for the sake of it. I'm faking drunk speech? My opinion on other people is just wrong? C'mon.
You're just pulling my leg at this point with stuff you can find around. The "drunk is fake" conspiracy discussion is just stupid and I can show messages from discord from that day to prove it, and the "no ur wrong" bits are just annoying tunneling and not willing to discuss.

Yall keep shoving words in my mouth and pushing for some stupid arguments instead of trying to look where it could really matters. At some point someone tried to make some sorry ass theory where every player in the FF was town which is just ludicrous, shouldn't we be giving a second look on players that late jumped in it after being told to just to make its number larger? because it's highly likely there's a scum there.
I provided my scum-town list and it was mainly ignored, and all of sudden people that were accusing me of attacking townie players just fidn't care and are still voting me just because of the sake of it despite having their argument shot with some holes. Tbf I'm pretty tired of people that barely have meta on me getting all cocky thinking they're reading me like a book and getting surprised pikachued when I get ****ing mad and throw a tantrum.

 

[Malakandra]

I just wanted to vote Mala since we weren't executing yet. Though I do need to review em, which I'll do later tonight.

I figured.

I'm liking Rajam a bit more. Still waiting for him to totally catch up, but I don't think the Jackrito slot and FF slot had any glaringly bad interactions, and his catch up posts have been better than most. I think he has me too high, especially since I'm higher than Chaco who was kept an incredibly high post count and not had a scummy look to him, which is hard. I feel like Raj may be plucking specific posts out rather than looking at the thread as a whole for his reads. Slot is bogged down by Jackrito's play still. He's probably at the least want to yeet out of my three willing to yeet today pool.

I'm more interested in an Exlight yeet. I reconsidered what Fonti pointed out and I agreed with before. I think while I definitely wouldn't of done that as scum, it makes sense with what Chaco was saying that if Exlight though the connections to FF were solid enough to get them yeeted today, they might just go crazy and do a risky play like jumping on a confirmed town to try to buy townie points.

Also fine with a boom yeet. I think his read town read on Jack was fake. He got his slight townie impression from Jack being against Xivii calling them conf town just for an RVS vote, something I think everybody would do, and apparently when Jack called people out for pushing him when he was inactive. However I didn't see any evidence of the latter when skimming Jack's posts, maybe it was in reference to this but I don't think that really fits what boom said super well. Boom, what post were you referring to? He also seemed to ignore Jack's push on Triss, that I feel was disingenuous.

Gonna avoid voting boom right now since that would place it at L-1 and I don't want someone to hammer before Rajam can read all the way through today.

Vote Exlight

 

[Malakandra]

Wow, I say I'll be busy studying for a test and when I check the thread there's another smal wagon forming around me already. For ****s sake guys.

I see you're all with some nonsensical "scum wanted to bus" theory on the rise. Why would scum even want to bus D1. And if they were really dedcated to they would've powerwolfed bus it instead of letting their main power role die.

I'm town and I'm not sure what you all expect from me. I tried catching up and apparently I'm scummy for not having the same context or meta as you all. You keep coming up with the most absurd nitpicks to get me lynched and I'm honestly tired of having wagons on me every game just for the sake of it. I'm faking drunk speech? My opinion on other people is just wrong? C'mon.
You're just pulling my leg at this point with stuff you can find around. The "drunk is fake" conspiracy discussion is just stupid and I can show messages from discord from that day to prove it, and the "no ur wrong" bits are just annoying tunneling and not willing to discuss.

Yall keep shoving words in my mouth and pushing for some stupid arguments instead of trying to look where it could really matters. At some point someone tried to make some sorry ass theory where every player in the FF was town which is just ludicrous, shouldn't we be giving a second look on players that late jumped in it after being told to just to make its number larger? because it's highly likely there's a scum there.
I provided my scum-town list and it was mainly ignored, and all of sudden people that were accusing me of attacking townie players just fidn't care and are still voting me just because of the sake of it despite having their argument shot with some holes. Tbf I'm pretty tired of people that barely have meta on me getting all cocky thinking they're reading me like a book and getting surprised pikachued when I get ****ing mad and throw a tantrum.

I didn't see this post before posting mine I swear, last one was the votecount Xivii posted lol.

Who do you think is scum exlight?

 

[ExLight]

Who do you think is scum exlight?

Laser, Chaco, and Z25 - scum leans
Boom - null-scummy
Rajam, Triss - null
Dark, Mala - null-town
Xivii, fonti, me - hard town

I'd appreciate if like
people read whoever they're voting even said

 

[ExLight]

I didn't see this post before posting mine I swear, last one was the votecount Xivii posted lol.

I mean it just proves my point a bit further, so all good I guess

 

[Malakandra]

My apologies, I missed that. Could you explain why Chaco and Laser? One of my main problems with you is your vote of Laser yesterday.

 

[ExLight]

as a small update to my readslist I'd prolly swap boom and rajam in that list because my scumreads were voting Boom and because I hate how Rajam kept trying to unconfirm Xiivi/fonti

 

[Xivii]

wdym why
someone pointed out there's only a traitor when a visitor is around

I see. It's the other way 'round

 

[Xivii]

If there is a traitor, then a {visitor or chocolate} must be in the game.

 

[fontisian]

I'm down with the Boom yeet. Yeet Rajam Tomorrow, etc.

 

[Malakandra]

[7] #HBC | FrozenFlame: Fontisian, Darkpit54, Trisscar, Xivii, LaserGuy, Malakandra, Z25
[3] LaserGuy: NonSpecificGuy, Rajam, ExLight
[2] Xivii: BoomFrog, Chaco
[1] ExLight: #HBC | FrozenFlame

Alright, so IIRC while drunk you didn't like my version of this list. This is a version I made based off your readlist for you. If we go back a bit,

[4] FrozenFlame: Fonti, Pit, Triss, Xivii
[3] Xivii: BoomFrog, Chaco, Malakandra
[1] BoomFrog: LaserGuy
[2] LaserGuy: NonSpecificGuy, Rajam
[1] Exlight: #HBC | FrozenFlame

Why do you think scum Laser switches onto FF over Xivii here? That would tie it up at 4 v 4, and allow FF to self prez to make it 5 v 4?

 

[ExLight]

My apologies, I missed that. Could you explain why Chaco and Laser? One of my main problems with you is your vote of Laser yesterday.

I'll try to elaborate more on that with examples and stuff later today, I'm kinda busy studying termodynamics I for a test I'll have in exactly 3h30 rn so my head is somewhere else.
But basically I hate their voting patterns, specially on the end of the day, and some of their attacks/reads throughout the day. The fact they're both still tunneling me, and I know I'm town, is also another red flag that keeps pinging me but I don't expect you to believe me so whatever

My vote on Laser yesterday was to tie the wagons so it forced people to take a stand so we had info to work with, at the time I had limited knowledge of the situation because I had subbed in like 3h before the deadline and didn't have time to catch up, so it was more because of that than a real scumlean at the time.
I get it probably looks bad because the one that got lynched was scum, which on a side note doesn't mean one of the other wagons wasn't also scum k thanks, but I promise it had genuine intentions and if it was going to cause something like a tie due to town passiveness (which I doubt tbh) I'd've untied and gone for FF too which doesn't mean much prolly but twas better than a semi-wagon around Xiivi who seemed like a confirmed town to me.

I see. It's the other way 'round

oh ok
sorry I'm a bit tired

 

[fontisian]

[7] #HBC | FrozenFlame: Fontisian, Darkpit54, Trisscar, Xivii, LaserGuy, Malakandra, Z25
[3] LaserGuy: NonSpecificGuy, Rajam, ExLight
[2] Xivii: BoomFrog, Chaco
[1] ExLight: #HBC | FrozenFlame

Alright, so IIRC while drunk you didn't like my version of this list. This is a version I made based off your readlist for you. If we go back a bit,

[4] FrozenFlame: Fonti, Pit, Triss, Xivii
[3] Xivii: BoomFrog, Chaco, Malakandra
[1] BoomFrog: LaserGuy
[2] LaserGuy: NonSpecificGuy, Rajam
[1] Exlight: #HBC | FrozenFlame

Why do you think scum Laser switches onto FF over Xivii here? That would tie it up at 4 v 4, and allow FF to self prez to make it 5 v 4?

I mean, he'd do it because Xivii told him to, and because Frozen was pretty doomed with the four votes already on him (because other people were going to jump on board).

 

[ExLight]

Why do you think scum Laser switches onto FF over Xivii here? That would tie it up at 4 v 4, and allow FF to self prez to make it 5 v 4?

iirc he was pressured into voting FF by someone, I think Xiivi? would be a massive red flag if he had voted them instead
and it increases the chances of saving their own asses while getting some town cred

 

[Xivii]

For the record, Rajam's playstyle is always to be behind. He'd be where he is currently even if he had started the game from the beginning with the rest of us.

 

[LaserGuy]

request votecount

Laser, saw your #582, wanna join me voting Z25?

I'm not sure why you expect me to vote with you when I was voting for you at the time.

Why?

A very BoomFrog reason, actually. That wagon had been sitting there for a long time and a lot of people weren't willing to commit or shuffle their votes around. In the event of a Town flip, there's basically nothing there--like the Handorin wagon in SS. So I figured I would tie the vote and see if anyone was going try to make a push.

I had actually been leaning more toward BoomFrog for a little while. Rajam... I'm less sure about as the day goes on. There's a lot of things that I'm really skeptical of in his content, but the dedication to just responding to random posts in the back thread completely oblivious to the wagon around him feels strange for scum.

For the record, Rajam's playstyle is always to be behind. He'd be where he is currently even if he had started the game from the beginning with the rest of us.

Just saw this in preview. Is this alignment indicative at all in your mind?

 

[Malakandra]

iirc he was pressured into voting FF by someone, I think Xiivi? would be a massive red flag if he had voted them instead
and it increases the chances of saving their own asses while getting some town cred

I mean, he'd do it because Xivii told him to, and because Frozen was pretty doomed with the four votes already on him (because other people were going to jump on board).

Hold on, let me go re read laser yesterday. I want to see how much he thought Xivii was town. If he didn't think Xivii was town before then yeeted onto FF because Xivii told him too thats odd. Also, point taken. I know I probably wouldn't of changed if I didn't see the Laser vote which I made it pretty clear the Xivii wagon wasn't going to pick up, but I realize I've been clouded by my own perspective in this.

Unvote

 

[fontisian]

Here's where I'm at overall:


Not a play (in order of general strength of town read):
10. BoomFrog - probably seeing the most concerted effort coming from this slot relative to everyone else, really feels like he's scumhunting and in a careful and deliberate way
3. Trisscar - on first read this slot was very meh to me but upon re-read idk why but this slot just feels like a towny trying to have a good time if that makes sense? def more of a gut read
8. Darkpit54 - posts just don't set of scum alarm bells for me at all, and the content seems mostly on point so its a solid townlean
11. Xivii/6. Chaco - these two probably second on effort only to boom, they're the primary discussion drivers so far and to give xiivi credit where credit is due among his many self proclaimed virtues, flowing discussion is in fact inherently pro town and scum definitely have less motive to keep the pot stirred generally speaking. Also frankly these are veteran players that I have the most familiarity with out of the cast and I know at a base level neither are endgame liabilities so keeping them around isn't risky right now

Meh:
2. Jackrito - slot comes off like a slightly worse darkpit to me for some reason, nothing really notable as far as getting a town read but also nothing that pings scummy for me thus far
4. Fontisian - probably having the hardest time reading this slot, I feel like font isn't sharing everything he's really thinking but I can't quite figure out of thats out of fear or meant as a wait and see strategy
12. LaserGuy - slot feels like it's kind of been on the defensive for awhile but then never pivoted into trying to be affirmatively town if that makes sense? Xiivi came out of the gates swinging and nothing about the defense seemed suss but the slot doesn't stick out in my mind much more than "had a cool take on my playstyle and wasn't rattled under xiivi pressure"

Can be the play:

1. 3DSNinja - actively not playing because he think's it'll get him night- *checks notes* oh uhm, lynched I guess? It's a lame self-fulfilling prophecy at this point, this slot just showing signs of being a liability
7. Somitomi - slots posts come off as very reactive instead of proactive and like they're meant to satiate players paying the slot attention in the hopes that they'll stop and let the slot just fade into the background, self preservationist vibe
9. Raxxel - Has this slot done anything?
13. NonSpecificGuy - Has this slot done anything?

Hey Malakandra , here's a bad connection with between Jackrito/Rajam and Frozen for you. The Jack read is the only one that is made in comparison to someone else. In my experience, this is more likely to be done by comparing a buddy to a town. Not sure why exactly, it's just a thing that happens. The read on Jack is also super hedgy, but I think Frozen had room to scumread Jack here, as he did with 3DS, somi, Raxxel and NSG, but choose not to, for no real reason. Like, looking at what he says about Jack, the read could easily be in the "Can be the play" pool, but Frozen choose to bump him up to meh instead. I think at eod Jack was also someone Frozen could have pushed town towards yeeting instead of the Boom/Xivii fight, since Raxxel/Mala, NSG and 3DS/Z25 were all getting more townread, but Frozen didn't choose to go there, and I think that's not a good sign for the Jack/Rajam slot.

 

[Xivii]

Just saw this in preview. Is this alignment indicative at all in your mind?

No it's his style as both alignments, waiting for the thread to build up, then reading from behind. I don't think I've ever seen him play at the present point in the thread.

 

[fontisian]

Hold on, let me go re read laser yesterday. I want to see how much he thought Xivii was town. If he didn't think Xivii was town before then yeeted onto FF because Xivii told him too thats odd. Also, point taken. I know I probably wouldn't of changed if I didn't see the Laser vote which I made it pretty clear the Xivii wagon wasn't going to pick up, but I realize I've been clouded by my own perspective in this.

Unvote

Reminder: Mala is town. I don't think he ever admits to this as scum, but as town it's just his thought process and he hasn't really thought through how him saying he probably wasn't going to vote Frozen and instead was going to try to yeet Xivii doesn't look great.

 

[ExLight]

Reminder: Mala is town. I don't think he ever admits to this as scum, but as town it's just his thought process and he hasn't really thought through how him saying he probably wasn't going to vote Frozen and instead was going to try to yeet Xivii doesn't look great.

lmao I've been townleaning them ever since they tried to reread the token game to compare xiivi's behavior and tunnel
like what kind of scum wastes time doing that

 

[fontisian]

I had actually been leaning more toward BoomFrog for a little while. Rajam... I'm less sure about as the day goes on. There's a lot of things that I'm really skeptical of in his content, but the dedication to just responding to random posts in the back thread completely oblivious to the wagon around him feels strange for scum.

Yeah, I was feeling this a bit too, but I don't really have anyone else that fits in as a possible partner.

 

[Xivii]

I thought the same Fonit. Also your Frozen/Jack analysis gave me chills.

 

[fontisian]

Trisscar Darkpit54
If I'm not around Tomorrow, I'd appreciate it if you'd yeet Rajam before ExLight. I feel like ExLight is tonally pretty town, and you two may be too focus on whether he's playing well instead of whether he's town, if that makes sense.

 

[Xivii]

Er I think you jinxed the nickname thing

 

[fontisian]

I thought the same Fonit. Also your Frozen/Jack analysis gave me chills.

Oh ****, not Fonit.