Midnight Ops Mafia: Game Thread. Game Over!

[Chaco]

Alright, I can agree with that sure. I still think Xivii gives us more info than Frozen here. But I can see how the night info would be beneficial even if they don't block you.

Triss is a bad target I agree.

Pit is one of my top townreads. His position on the FF wagon is a factor, but I feel he has been incredibly pure during the game. His readslist was wrong sure, but town is wrong more often, and I would think most mafia would put their mates in a null section or low town rather than where pit put FF.

I was out for a bit re reading Xivii and Chaco, and then re reading everything since Xivii claimed. I'm leaning towards Chaco v Xivii being T v T right now.

In all his posts Chaco shows and says that he reads from his gut, and to me he looks like he would have a hard time distinguishing people that are scummy from people who are bad town or lying town. He's overly focusing on Xivii being untrustworthy, and then going to conclusions that fit logically with his thoughts of why someone would be untrustworthy. You can see it in how he started off after Xivii claimed by still thinking Xivii was town, but attacking Xivii's reasoning and logic. When Xivii held that his reasoning was sound, Chaco then started looking for other reasons and came across Xivii being scum. Thats natural thought progression.

Xivii is town because he has no reason to redact his claim unless he is traitor. If Xivii is traitor, bussing his scum partner is an incredibly bad idea. Besides the fact that I'm willing to believe Xivii in him not bussing, traitor Xivii would have no way of knowing which scumbuddy had the PR's, I asked UP. Traitor Xivii without Night Kill and without PR doesn't buss as that is a terrible trade for scum team. Xivii could have put effort into changing people away from Fonti, and tried to make a new viable wagon, this is something I believe scum Xivii is capable of, he also could have gotten a wagon going on himself even though that is a less optimal play. Regardless of the success of those prior actions, they would still be a better play than voting FF and campaigning for the FF wagon. Traitor Xivii in this case also has no actual reason to be on the FF wagon in the first place. He didn't need the towncred for it since he was going to be thought of as cleared tomorrow if Fonti was cleared, and being on FF would only lead to scum team potentially targeting him for the nightkill.

Boom, what about Z did you see and not like?

I think it was more his content overall. He didn't seem opportunistic to me, and I felt his catch up posts were actually pretty good. He seemed more involved and willing to be suspicious of people than in Sumting.

I'm pretty sure this is regards to Z25's reaction to Xivii retracting his claim. IIRC, Xivii retracted his claim, Z25 posted about something else, than posted about Xivii. I think Boom was saying that z25 had a strong reaction to Xivii's retraction, but it was fake because he posted something else first.

I disagree on that point because Z didn't seem that heated or emotional in the post Boom was talking about, and I know sometimes the pages don't load all the posts properly. I'd have to go back and check to see how much time had passed between Xivii's post and Z's though for that point.

I don't think thats fair. I can see how his pushes could be giving him info, and are genuine attempts to get people to interact and give opinions.

Looking back I basically dislike all these posts. Seems informed to me. Quick to call me and Xivii TvT, was tunneling on Xivii until it’s became clear that Xivii was not viable and then says he could see how it would be useful to him? If you were as annoyed by it as Boom and I, you wouldn’t come off of that stance. That’s mirroring my prior read if didn’t seem genuine. Further more, past days he was quick to inquire more into people’s reads on Z and continue to back him as hella town. There’s also a post above where he said scum would not town read their partners and put them as more null/scum.... you mean what frozen did in that post I quoted?

Read through them and look at context. Mala is scum. Sorry I doubted you Xivii.

 

[Chaco]

Xivii

 

[Chaco]

Also to further that, I think Zs reaction to Xivii is fake also. I think he saw the town feed I received off of tunneling Xivii and Booms flip after doing the same and fall into the same categorization as we did. Mala chiming in on it just confirms that thought too much. Also looking back, Mala has followed many of my leads. Xivii, Boom, stance on Rajam, but he doesn’t show the progression to end at those conclusions whereas I do. They constantly both try and ping my progression posts, which is what pings them here, because there isn’t townie progression. Because it’s informed already.

So yes, I believe Z/Mala is the scum team here.

 

[Chaco]

LaserGuy I specifically want your opinion here.

 

[Malakandra]

was tunneling on Xivii until it’s became clear that Xivii was not viable and then says he could see how it would be useful to him? If you were as annoyed by it as Boom and I, you wouldn’t come off of that stance. That’s mirroring my prior read if didn’t seem genuine.

wut? I think you are misreading. The "I see how that could be beneficial post" was me agreeing that scum not roleblocking the neap was a win. I actually went in on Xivii for potential of it being fake before you did, so your mirroring point is invalid. All you'd said at that point, was I feel skeptical of this, then another post saying you kinda thought there was no way he would make the play, then I brought up how easy it would be to fake claim if no ninja shots, which caused you to say this is actually a very solid point.

About the annoyed point. I don't know about you, but I don't vote people because I'm annoyed by their play. I had been on Xivii before the chocolate, and made several posts on him besides the chocolate thing for the majority of the day. I was tunneled on him, but when I saw the wagon was not going to take off, there was a wagon I thought could be scum that was the dominant one, and that a slot I thought was scum had just cast a shady vote on a wagon bringing it tied for second, I switched wagons because it was the best thing for town. Either I stay on my tunnel vote which isn't going to go anywhere and risk scum being able to jump onto a new wagon last second, or I move wagons.

There’s also a post above where he said scum would not town read their partners and put them as more null/scum.... you mean what frozen did in that post I quoted?

Sure. Didn't I say that it was totally possible for FF for to have a scummate where Raxx was? I don't see the contradiction here?

Mala has followed many of my leads. Xivii, Boom, stance on Rajam, but he doesn’t show the progression to end at those conclusions whereas I do.

Could you show the exact leads I followed?

I feel like the Xivii one is the only one where we had somewhat aligning thoughts. I can't really say I had them first, since you were onto Xivii before I was even in the game. But I know my posts on Xivii came from my own opinion, and that should be evident to people reading if you look at my posts on Xivii and compare them to yours.

We straight up disagreed on Rajam, you were against yeeting him and I was all for yeeting him. I also remember us having different reasoning for suspecting boom? IIRC I didn't trust Boom because I thought his read on Jack was faked, and you didn't trust boom because of Frozen attempting to diffuse the situation and some theory about scum trying to divide and pocket the top townies?

 

[Malakandra]

Also I have finished re reading now. My percentages are still about the same, no shifts in ranking from the last posts I read. Currently willing to yeet laser or Z25. Leaning more towards Laser currently, put him 55% scum, since he has not been consistent with his recent reads, and I feel he is making up his reads on me since several of them have just had wrong information.

 

[Malakandra]

To be clear- I'm not going to vote yet because it could be LYLO.

 

[Malakandra]

Xivii I owed you a post once I caught up didn't I? Let me go find it.

 

[Xivii]

Also I have finished re reading now. My percentages are still about the same, no shifts in ranking from the last posts I read. Currently willing to yeet laser or Z25. Leaning more towards Laser currently, put him 55% scum, since he has not been consistent with his recent reads, and I feel he is making up his reads on me since several of them have just had wrong information.

How come Chaco dropped to your #3 pick?

 

[Malakandra]

The most likey scum team is darkpit and darkpit. Seriously, the guy likes everything.

No clue. I've been wrong on almost everything I've been confident. I'm lost. Currently re-reading through the game, I'll get back to you later on this. Trying to re-read without any prejudice as when I re-read last game I was prejudiced and it screwed me.



I think so. I've read the ones you mentioned in my re read so far. They do look pure and from an uninformed perspective, and I'm inclined to trust you that Exlight isn't that type of player that could fake these. Judgement will be given after my re read.



Not to this yet in my re-read. I'll definitely get back to it. Laser's consistency was one of my main reasons for town leaning him after reading through all his posts earlier.

Ah, I think I've somewhat answered most of these.

Currently looking at Laser and Z25, yes I agree with yours posts on Exlight still. Looking at Laser for that reasons and a few others.

 

[Malakandra]

How come Chaco dropped to your #3 pick?

Other people are just townier. I wouldn't say he dropped more I agreed with your Exlight case on and thought she was townier from my reread.

 

[Xivii]

Other people are just townier. I wouldn't say he dropped more I agreed with your Exlight case on and thought she was townier from my reread.

I mean how come he dropped from your #1 scum pick to your #3? At the start of the day, he was your first choice.

 

[Malakandra]

I mean how come he dropped from your #1 scum pick to your #3? At the start of the day, he was your first choice.

Where are you getting that from?

 

[Malakandra]

I'm starting to feel like Im playing a different game than you guys..... Maybe I slipped universes during my re-read and I'm in a very similar parallel universe where I made different posts that don't show up when I re read? lol

 

[Xivii]

Where are you getting that from?

Mala who would you have tracked last night if you were tracker?

Chaco.

 

[Malakandra]

Yah? I would have tracked Chaco because he wasn't off the table, and was a person I had been flip flopping around a bit on yesterday. I would rather use it on someone in my periphery, since I feel like it is more useful to catch people you might have let slip by no?

 

[Malakandra]

I've never had a PR in forum mafia, but thats how it was common to use them in BOCT.

 

[Xivii]

Gotcha.

 

[Malakandra]

I can see how you got that he was my #1 though, so my apologies.

 

[Xivii]

LaserGuy this game comes all down to you. Be the hero we need.

 

[Z25]

Also to further that, I think Zs reaction to Xivii is fake also. I think he saw the town feed I received off of tunneling Xivii and Booms flip after doing the same and fall into the same categorization as we did. Mala chiming in on it just confirms that thought too much. Also looking back, Mala has followed many of my leads. Xivii, Boom, stance on Rajam, but he doesn’t show the progression to end at those conclusions whereas I do. They constantly both try and ping my progression posts, which is what pings them here, because there isn’t townie progression. Because it’s informed already.

So yes, I believe Z/Mala is the scum team here.

Honestly I didn’t even really register that whole debacle when I commented on Zen’s retract. Which as I’ve said multiple times, it’s not hard to see that I was typing multiple posts in minutes on that same page. I did not get to condense everything into one.

And to comment on one of you your last posts. No scum does not spend 3 hours like I did stating my thoughts on my read of you like I would.
In fact if you don’t believe me, here:

https://smashboards.com/threads/flavorless-mafia-iii-game-over-who-won.501573/page-21#post-23894897

Read that last day. Much like here I was vanilla. I tbh wasn’t doing as much that game until I yeeted Pokechu the first scum out of existence.

But with the determination I had to solve based on the numbers left, I broke down an entire player posts. That being those of our very host. Granted I was wrong, but my point is look at the last scum there, it was Pythag. He just raised questions, reacted or didn’t do anything to that level to try and win because he was set he thought.

Im betting scum is thinking similarly or at the very least taking advanatage of the fact we can’t commit to one slot. The two slots that really fit this are Laser based on my own read there, but Mala feels very similar right now.

Bottom line is scum wouldn’t be putting this effort in. That’s my personal thoughts but make of them what you will.

Also much like Laser, a mala and me team doesn’t make much sense given them both not really being fond of me at all this game. But again that’s my opinion I suppose.

 

[Z25]

LaserGuy this game comes all down to you. Be the hero we need.

But what if he’s the villain?

Are you town reading Laser?

 

[Z25]

And I suppose you could argue I would put in that effort to look good as scum, but would I? No. My biggest problem as scum is formulating nature reads because I have the knowledge of every slot. I wouldn’t have needed to pull all that out in Chaco if I was scum and I wouldn’t waste the time, because I’m not on too hot a seat.

Even Zen can vouch I’d say my reads suck when I am scum.

My Chaco breakdown exists because I really found no good reason for people suspecting them and trust my gut on my reads.I fully believe out last two scum are within Mala, Laser or even Ex right now.

 

[LaserGuy]

What about his posts felt town?

#20 has a townie tone.

LaserGuy I specifically want your opinion here.

I agree with a lot of what you said here. I thnk if you are Town, the most likely team IMHO is z25/Mala.

LaserGuy this game comes all down to you. Be the hero we need.

Hmm...

From your point of view, the correct play is to yeet both me and z25. The odds of there not being at least one scum within that pairing is very low as one of us is probably going to match any other likely mafia member. This is a fairly consensus read of all of the dead townies and the most probable living ones. The only possibility problematic team you'd miss from this is Mala/Chaco, but nobody else seems to agree with me on that one. This excludes pairings with Darkpit or Exlight but frankly if either of them are mafia the game is already lost.

Since I'm Town I would recommend yeeting z25 first and see where we end up, but I wouldn't fault you for doing it the other way around even if it does mean moving into LYLO next day.

 

[Xivii]

If Rajam flipped scum, would that have indicated that Mala was more likely to be scum or less likely?

Could I have an answer to this, Laser (my bad if I missed it).

 

[Chaco]

wut? I think you are misreading. The "I see how that could be beneficial post" was me agreeing that scum not roleblocking the neap was a win. I actually went in on Xivii for potential of it being fake before you did, so your mirroring point is invalid. All you'd said at that point, was I feel skeptical of this, then another post saying you kinda thought there was no way he would make the play, then I brought up how easy it would be to fake claim if no ninja shots, which caused you to say this is actually a very solid point.

About the annoyed point. I don't know about you, but I don't vote people because I'm annoyed by their play. I had been on Xivii before the chocolate, and made several posts on him besides the chocolate thing for the majority of the day. I was tunneled on him, but when I saw the wagon was not going to take off, there was a wagon I thought could be scum that was the dominant one, and that a slot I thought was scum had just cast a shady vote on a wagon bringing it tied for second, I switched wagons because it was the best thing for town. Either I stay on my tunnel vote which isn't going to go anywhere and risk scum being able to jump onto a new wagon last second, or I move wagons.



Sure. Didn't I say that it was totally possible for FF for to have a scummate where Raxx was? I don't see the contradiction here?


Could you show the exact leads I followed?

I feel like the Xivii one is the only one where we had somewhat aligning thoughts. I can't really say I had them first, since you were onto Xivii before I was even in the game. But I know my posts on Xivii came from my own opinion, and that should be evident to people reading if you look at my posts on Xivii and compare them to yours.

We straight up disagreed on Rajam, you were against yeeting him and I was all for yeeting him. I also remember us having different reasoning for suspecting boom? IIRC I didn't trust Boom because I thought his read on Jack was faked, and you didn't trust boom because of Frozen attempting to diffuse the situation and some theory about scum trying to divide and pocket the top townies?

wut? I think you are misreading. The "I see how that could be beneficial post" was me agreeing that scum not roleblocking the neap was a win. I actually went in on Xivii for potential of it being fake before you did, so your mirroring point is invalid. All you'd said at that point, was I feel skeptical of this, then another post saying you kinda thought there was no way he would make the play, then I brought up how easy it would be to fake claim if no ninja shots, which caused you to say this is actually a very solid point.

About the annoyed point. I don't know about you, but I don't vote people because I'm annoyed by their play. I had been on Xivii before the chocolate, and made several posts on him besides the chocolate thing for the majority of the day. I was tunneled on him, but when I saw the wagon was not going to take off, there was a wagon I thought could be scum that was the dominant one, and that a slot I thought was scum had just cast a shady vote on a wagon bringing it tied for second, I switched wagons because it was the best thing for town. Either I stay on my tunnel vote which isn't going to go anywhere and risk scum being able to jump onto a new wagon last second, or I move wagons.



Sure. Didn't I say that it was totally possible for FF for to have a scummate where Raxx was? I don't see the contradiction here?


Could you show the exact leads I followed?

I feel like the Xivii one is the only one where we had somewhat aligning thoughts. I can't really say I had them first, since you were onto Xivii before I was even in the game. But I know my posts on Xivii came from my own opinion, and that should be evident to people reading if you look at my posts on Xivii and compare them to yours.

We straight up disagreed on Rajam, you were against yeeting him and I was all for yeeting him. I also remember us having different reasoning for suspecting boom? IIRC I didn't trust Boom because I thought his read on Jack was faked, and you didn't trust boom because of Frozen attempting to diffuse the situation and some theory about scum trying to divide and pocket the top townies?

I’ll respond to this tomorrow. But unless I saw the post in ISO wrong, there’s one about Rajam early in before you start a push on him that paints him the opposite. I do know you pushed him yesterDay, so I should’ve elaborated that’s point more. With Xivii I don’t mean initial reaction, I mean furthering frustration. It doesn’t read as genuine by any stretch. Your point about not voting him because you’re frustrated is valid, but I’m talking overall from what he did start to retraction, that’s when I mean it more specifically.

Boom I’ll go back through and dig again for clearing ups sake.

It’ll just take me probably until tomorrow afternoon.

Edited to remove post jumble phone caused, may not be fixed still

 

[LaserGuy]

Could I have an answer to this, Laser (my bad if I missed it).

Can't remember if I answered this one or not. More likely, I think. Rajam/Chaco and Rajam/Mala both made a lot of sense to me.

 

[Chaco]

And I suppose you could argue I would put in that effort to look good as scum, but would I? No. My biggest problem as scum is formulating nature reads because I have the knowledge of every slot. I wouldn’t have needed to pull all that out in Chaco if I was scum and I wouldn’t waste the time, because I’m not on too hot a seat.

Even Zen can vouch I’d say my reads suck when I am scum.

My Chaco breakdown exists because I really found no good reason for people suspecting them and trust my gut on my reads.I fully believe out last two scum are within Mala, Laser or even Ex right now.

I was trying to get more information from you from that, but I really didn’t. Mala paints you and Laser as town, but here you give me lengthy answers and Laser gives me I agree with a lot of what you said. I have to weigh how that feels overall.

 

[Xivii]

Can't remember if I answered this one or not. More likely, I think. Rajam/Chaco and Rajam/Mala both made a lot of sense to me.

Why did you want Rajam's flip in order to inform your Mala read? The case I made was a Rajam/Mala case and you stated that you would consider Mala if the Rajam flip in mind. It seems though that you would have gone Mala either way, seeing as Rajam flipped town and you have Mala at 70%.

 

[Xivii]

The difference between your scum and your town play btw is that there is a lack of solving in your scum play and it's surgical. You have a way higher question to content ratio in your town play and it's lighter. The tone in your scum play is as if you're trying to avoid stepping on eggshells. As town, you push what you feel is right, whereas as scum you are pulled along.

There's a ton of questions town!Laser would have asked and interactions he would have had this game, I believe. Such as interacting with me page 1 (for comparison, in SS you asked me about my playstyle), or asking why I believe this is your scum meta. The fact that you didn't seek to poke my mind on that is the most telling I think. I don't see how a curious townie could not. I've seen what you're like in your town quicktopics. Everything is considered. Everything scrutinized, pondered over. It's a puzzle to be solved and that drives you. There's no drive to figure out the game here.

In B99 we butted heads because of our opposing reads. If I recall, there was a day where either you or I were pushing jimbob and the other was opposed to it and we had to fight tooth and nail to get the other to concede. In SS you remained firmly on Z25 despite my attempts to get you to move elsewhere. Here you're just following consensus. You had no concern for who we yeeted on any of the days.

 

[Xivii]

None of my preferred wagons are particularly viable right now. I have Boom at nullscum which is votable and I have both Xivii and fonti at strong Town.

Like no, town!Laser doesn't do this? Allowing things to happen rather than making things happen.

 

[Xivii]

What makes you so sure today isn't Lylo btw?

 

[Xivii]

I'm liking Rajam a bit more. Still waiting for him to totally catch up, but I don't think the Jackrito slot and FF slot had any glaringly bad interactions, and his catch up posts have been better than most. I think he has me too high, especially since I'm higher than Chaco who was kept an incredibly high post count and not had a scummy look to him, which is hard. I feel like Raj may be plucking specific posts out rather than looking at the thread as a whole for his reads. Slot is bogged down by Jackrito's play still. He's probably at the least want to yeet out of my three willing to yeet today pool.

Mala, why did Rajam return to being your top yeet candidate after this?

 

[Xivii]

Screams into the endless void

Couldn't you have just posted this a little earlier so I didn't have to wake up to this crap, gah.


Like, we get it, your town man, you don't have to do all this. Like scum Xivii has no reason to out that he got away with being cleared, except to make me feel better about myself for being right about the claim being easily faked, even if I was wrong about alignment, but yah, no actual reason to admit this. Not even sure if I should bother to try to read Xivii rationally in the future, but whatever. Your town this game and thats all that matters for this game. Now time to read the 2 pages worth of content this must have spawned, maybe something good will come out of this whole mess after all.

But like seriously, why do you do this? Like, the idea was dumb in the first place, if we had an actual chocolate townie and you walked your claim back you would have been the yeet day 1.

Mala, be honest with me, was this reaction real?

 

[Chaco]

Malakandra The quote Xivii just posted about Rajam is the one I was going to have to go back and find.

 

[Z25]

The difference between your scum and your town play btw is that there is a lack of solving in your scum play and it's surgical. You have a way higher question to content ratio in your town play and it's lighter. The tone in your scum play is as if you're trying to avoid stepping on eggshells. As town, you push what you feel is right, whereas as scum you are pulled along.

There's a ton of questions town!Laser would have asked and interactions he would have had this game, I believe. Such as interacting with me page 1 (for comparison, in SS you asked me about my playstyle), or asking why I believe this is your scum meta. The fact that you didn't seek to poke my mind on that is the most telling I think. I don't see how a curious townie could not. I've seen what you're like in your town quicktopics. Everything is considered. Everything scrutinized, pondered over. It's a puzzle to be solved and that drives you. There's no drive to figure out the game here.

In B99 we butted heads because of our opposing reads. If I recall, there was a day where either you or I were pushing jimbob and the other was opposed to it and we had to fight tooth and nail to get the other to concede. In SS you remained firmly on Z25 despite my attempts to get you to move elsewhere. Here you're just following consensus. You had no concern for who we yeeted on any of the days.

This is pretty much what I was saying yesterday. His reads don’t feel really and he just switches to whoever is the hot topic of the day. It’s not something a town player will do.

 

[Darkpit54]

I feel like toDay has been moving really slowly but idrk how to build more meaningful conversation lol

 

[Chaco]

I feel like toDay has been moving really slowly but idrk how to build more meaningful conversation lol

Reread Mala, Z, and Laser and bring forth what you see

 

[Malakandra]

Mala, why did Rajam return to being your top yeet candidate after this?

So at that point, people were pointing out connections from slots to FF, and I hadn't seen any from FF to Rajam's slot. Fonti pointed one out to me here.

That moved him back higher up, then theres was his readslist where he did the same thing and put Chaco and DP together even though their play styles were very different. That as well as PoE moved him to me being confident he was scum.

 

[Malakandra]

Mala, be honest with me, was this reaction real?

Yes. When I first saw it I had the urge to just press and hold "A" for forever. It was very frustrating to wake up too, and I'm really not a morning person. I reigned myself in to not waste everyones time, and put my honest thoughts down.