Midnight Ops Mafia: Game Thread. Game Over!

[Chaco]

Chaco you keep saying that you realized my opening post was a joke, but you clearly say here that you didn't think my post was a joke.

Because of how it was treated.

 

[Xivii]

But no one else was treating it seriously. And you responded to it as serious before on page 1 before anyone else commented on it.

 

[Chaco]

Booms treatment to me on it.

 

[Chaco]

You’re digging to much to deep again. First game in 6-7 years and first posts of the game.

 

[Xivii]

But Boom didn't treat it as serious. He was suspicious of you because you treated it as serious.

Again Page 1 when it was my first post of the game. You had taken it as serious before Boom pointed that out.

And you clarified that you thought it was serious in your response to LaserGuy.

 

[Chaco]

You need to focus on what’s obvious and stop trying to expand the Lynch pool past it’s given parameters cause that will lose the game fast. Minimum two scum alive, you start trying to add traction to me, Laser and Mala come tumbling on quickly. Z25 can’t due to prior stance. Ex already has wanted my slot. That’s how fast you can ML here due to over digging into irrelevance. If you’re digging to D1, page 1 for answers, it’s not gonna work out. I’ve answered this so many times, Xivii. If you think it’s a problem and can’t see the obvious time gap speaking, I can’t help you there.

 

[Xivii]

My issue is the gaslighting. You clearly thought my opening post was serious, but you're making out like I'm crazy for seeing it that way. It's OK if you mistook it as serious. My issue is that you're claiming that you didn't until Boom commented on it!

 

[Xivii]

And not vetting everyone fully is how we lose the game. One of you, Z, and Mala is playing a crazy scum game. We can't leave any loose ends.

 

[Xivii]

By the way everyone, in your user preferences, make sure you have "Show your current activity" unchecked. Otherwise, if you're viewing a private chat, it shows on your profile.

 

[Xivii]

I'm still in the middle of a Chaco and Laser read through. So far there's nothing preventing the possibility of this team. And there's actually some things that allude to it. But man Chaco and Z25 have consistently throughout the game alternated between saying the scummiest of scummy things and the towniest of townie things and it's driving me absolutely insane. I feel like the amount of town slips they have should override the scummy content, but like where does this leave us?

Mala is so logically consistent, but then again so has Laser been. Is it really just Mala and Laser? And Mala is a 5-D scum player? Blood on the Clocktower is like mafia hard mode, so maybe his experience with that is like Goku training with 100 kiloton weighted vests?

 

[Xivii]

Like dam. I've been going in circles for days. How can Z be so scummy and townie at the same time?

 

[Xivii]

Also the Rajam yeet was bad. And my hammer was legit the most garbage play that has been made in the last few games.

 

[Xivii]

This is sort of where I'm at right now:

DP 0%
Ex 5%

Z25 40%
Mala 50%
Chaco 60%
Laser 70%

I'm going to break for now and continue the scummate analysis tomorrow.

Mala
Mala's Frozen vote was bussy and wasn't consistent with his reads.
He tried to push me as Fonti had just made her Frozen case.
His Coordination post was mirroring (which I'd accept if he owned it, but he's yet to state that he did indeed get the idea from me).
He hasn't been very open to changing his reads. Was willing to flash yeet Rajam.

Chaco
Awkard interaction D1 with the lurking thing.
Ignored LaserGuy much of the game. Didn't pursue him even though Laser pushed him for the same reasons as BoomFrog D1.
Disappeared during the Frozen yeet after parking a vote on me.
Pushed for a No Lynch after Fonti's Frozen case.
Role fished after I retracted my Chocolate claim.
The only one to town read Rajam early on.

Z25
Reasoning using information that is impossible to know, implying certain players are town: Stated that me and Raxxel weren't on the same team. Said that I wouldn't push a newbie NSG. Stated that Booms scumread of him and me was going to be funny. Hardcore town reading Chaco.

Sigh

 

[Xivii]

I've tried playing scummy on purpose once before

Please never ever do this again.

 

[Xivii]

And wanting Rax, someone who is likely not on the same team as you( but you could both be town), you shouldn’t be trying to figure out how they are going to play. It sounds like your trying to plan around whatever they may be trying to do.

WHY WAS HE UNLIKELY ON THE SAME TEAM AS ME????

 

[Z25]

Z25 yes I do disagree with you because of these reasons:

What do you think of each point?

That lurking post is weird but I took that more of a joke and didn’t give much thought to it. It could mean something but it be an odd post for scum to make so blatantly imo as it would look bad to town like you are thjnking

Gunning for you is something I basically did earlier this game too. But I’m still town. So coming from that perspective, this one I could see as more a bad town play like mine based more on emotion then logical thinking. However there is also the possibility it’s exactly like you described.

Promoting a no lynch is definitely straight up bad, so I agree there.

The frozen train is an interesting point because it goes back to them pushing you. It can easily be a townie who thinks their stances are better regardless of the popularity of a Frozen vote, much like how he thought his scum read in you was right. This could also be scummy, but do you think scum Chaco makes it obvious upon the Frozen flip that he won’t look good for not joining? Odds are most scum would have bussed at that point as their mate wasn’t getting out of it and it would look fine because it’s day one, there would be two many people to effectively narrow scum down from that wagon.

Pr point is also very solid. However didn’t other try to bait out prs? Multiple people pushed the idea of mass claiming earlier then need be. Which is a little different from your example, I agree scum are more Likely to do this then town.

Another question, do you think scum Chaco says my read of their play is right but then continues to scum read me? Backing of my slot would have worked and I could see scum thinking that in doing that they gain a townie’s support of their slot which is good. Whereas continuing to Scum read a townie who thinks that the scum is town, can lead the townie to not really put full trust in them. I have seen scenarios play out in older games I played on here where scum would back down after that.

Like dam. I've been going in circles for days. How can Z be so scummy and townie at the same time?

Lol this might be signature worthy.

WHY WAS HE UNLIKELY ON THE SAME TEAM AS ME????

That own quote should answer your question. That quote is from when I thought you could be scum. So tell me why Scum Zen leads an obvious breadcrum trail of his mate because in that scenario I was discussing, he would have to be your mate. I also don’t see you immediately asking a mate their plan in the main thread when it wouldn’t get you anywhere. It gave me the same vibes as when I tried buttering up to slots as scum. So I couldn’t see you as the same team then because of my suspicion on your slot that the post you quoted was talking about.

 

[Chaco]

Xivii you jump from scum to scum, man. I’ve gotten used to playing mafia again while playing this game, so as I said, if it were normal circumstances sure look into it how you are, but it isn’t, so you can’t. If you continue to push that, you’re gonna be wrong. Look at every point you just made, all early game essentially. My play has evolved again, and essentially you kindve have to treat that period as a newbie period in game. Sorry if you can’t see it that way, but that’s what it is.

Also what happened to Mala being scum? How is laser higher now?

 

[Chaco]

Also for just posterity sake, everything I’ve said regarding PRs and claims has been accurate. I said PRs would essentially be worthless this game. I said VT is scums only claim. So let’s stop looking at **** as scummy when obviously I did have a shred of accuracy to what I thought. Wasn’t PR fishing, it was saying I thought mass claim could’ve happened a day phase ago.

 

[Chaco]

Let me blunt here too, if a read is frustrating you in how they can seem townie and scummy, they’re more than likely town. Town doesn’t care about a filter to appease all masses, I know I don’t at least. I don’t check my posts to see if they’re gonna be easy to discern motive, I just fire from the hip, Z seeks similar.

Which I would say a scum team with me having a few games under my belt again, partnered with Z would **** some people up.

 

[Darkpit54]

Darkpit54 what do you feel about Z's Chaco analysis post with these in mind? He was scum that game.

I think it shows that that type of post is definitely within his scum range, though the content was a little different. It still makes me think that if Z is scum, Chaco probably isn't. And vice versa

 

[Chaco]

I want to go with the absolute safest bet for scum toDay. Although I have the inclination that Mala is likely, there’s much more room for reasonable doubt. So the best bet is likely Laser.

 

[ExLight]

This is sort of where I'm at right now:

DP 0%

you're that confident about DP?
I feel they got a lot more reactive rather than active as the game went on despite us approaching -Lo which is at least enough for some points imo

Started the rereading
an extension would be dope so I get some of the time I lost due my exams k thanks

 

[Chaco]

I think UP only said we could only get one extension. But last one was a fluke. Idk. But then again, two people gone Monday, so there’s no point in extending cause they won’t be here to vote.

Just try and do your best to catch up fast before EOD.

 

[ExLight]

one extension per phase I'm assuming
how long we still have?

 

[ExLight]

o it's in the title mb
a bit more over a day

I think I can do that

 

[Malakandra]

I was aiming more for nullTown which I managed to hold for the first couple of phases

Why were you aiming for more nullTown this game when claim to be a vanilla town?

 

[Malakandra]

Should we do the thing we did last game where we declare who we are willing to vote for?

I'm willing to vote for Laser or Z currently.

 

[Malakandra]

EDIT: Inserted quote this was made for

Blood on the Clocktower is like mafia hard mode, so maybe his experience with that is like Goku training with 100 kiloton weighted vests?

 

[Xivii]

Should we do the thing we did last game where we declare who we are willing to vote for?

I'm willing to vote for Laser or Z currently.

Nah, I only proposed it last game because I was scum and knew I could control the disunity of town this way.

 

[Xivii]

Xivii you jump from scum to scum, man. I’ve gotten used to playing mafia again while playing this game, so as I said, if it were normal circumstances sure look into it how you are, but it isn’t, so you can’t. If you continue to push that, you’re gonna be wrong. Look at every point you just made, all early game essentially. My play has evolved again, and essentially you kindve have to treat that period as a newbie period in game. Sorry if you can’t see it that way, but that’s what it is.

Also what happened to Mala being scum? How is laser higher now?

Chaco when you ramble on about nothing that has to do with the point, it just makes me feel stronger that you're scum. This is all essentially just AtE. Can you address the actual point I'm concerned with? Which is this:

My issue is the gaslighting. You clearly thought my opening post was serious, but you're making out like I'm crazy for seeing it that way. It's OK if you mistook it as serious. My issue is that you're claiming that you didn't until Boom commented on it!

Also regarding jumping around, you literally said that Z25 and Mala were the scumteam and now you're pushing for Laser.

 

[Xivii]

I think it shows that that type of post is definitely within his scum range, though the content was a little different. It still makes me think that if Z is scum, Chaco probably isn't. And vice versa

In what way is the content different?

Also in that game Raxxel and Z25 were the scumteam and this is the advice I gave them after the game:

GG all! I kinda knew once people picked up on my reluctance to vote Z on day 1 I was boned, there really isn't much I could say that would make that decision seem town-aligned.

You mentioned that reluctance to vote your partner was an issue; an alternative would be to town read him. It's consistency that matters, and since not everyone was scum reading Z D1, you could have gotten by with null to town reading him.

Does this change your view at all?

 

[Chaco]

Chaco when you ramble on about nothing that has to do with the point, it just makes me feel stronger that you're scum. This is all essentially just AtE. Can you address the actual point I'm concerned with? Which is this:


Also regarding jumping around, you literally said that Z25 and Mala were the scumteam and now you're pushing for Laser.

Thing is though it is an AtE, I can’t say the fact behind it otherwise. Early game I was still trying to figure things out again, and at first my response took it as a joke, but then when Boom pushed on it I took it more seriously. Repeat explanation ad nauseum, D1, D2, now. I’m going to bluntly tell you if I think you’re doing too much in regards to looking back. Just the way I play. You’re looking too much for anything and everything that can be scummy instead of subscribing to PoE and working from within it. I get it, you’re a very unorthodox player. But this isn’t the time to play that way. If Z and I are frustrating you because we are flashing you on both ends, it’s likely town motivated. Town will say stuff you don’t agree with and find scummy quite often, but if they’re pinging you hard town in others....look at what’s likely and what isn’t.

And you are correct, I am jumping around on that. But in a fixed PoE that I’ve said since beginning of Day. Mala I reread and I was initially pointing his defenses of Z as town, but I looked back and saw him do the same with Laser. Laser is a much more likely partner to the two of them than them being the scum team together. So as proposed earlier we want the safest chance of hitting scum toDay in case it is LyLo. Laser is most commonly regarded as the link between scummates, which I agree with.

DP is not likely at all with anyone, neither is Ex. You’re town cleared. Which means all the burden falls onto you essentially, and you’ve got to guide and direct since your slot is the only for sure one. Not tryin to pressure you because you likely already know this, but unity as town stems from you. We haven’t had a clear town leader since Fonti.

 

[Xivii]

Let me see if I can think of an example to clarify the situation.

Scenario 1
It is Day 2.
Carla hasn't been active.
Xenon says that Carla is lurking.

Scenario 2
It is the first post of the game.
Xenon says that Carla is lurking.

Which of these scenarios would the response "nah I'm not lurking" from Carla be appropriate?

 

[Chaco]

Right but I don’t hide my activity playing mafia like most do, so it’s null. You could’ve seen me viewing a thread and posted that. So regardless it is worthless and pursuing it is a waste.
Also see initial response, treated it differently due to progression.

Overall it is massively null. I can go to D1 and quote your initial gambits up until claim and ask what mentality it catered to and how it benefited town but that’s pointless to do. Not the same cause you’re game cleared now, but if you weren’t, same drift. We have insanely different play styles, so you won’t understand how or why I play the way I do, much the same with you for me. I’ve said numerous times I read better when someone comes at me with stuff, so of course I’m going to instigate if people react.

 

[Xivii]

So did you view the thread before I posted that?

 

[Chaco]

So did you view the thread before I posted that?

Nah I posted when I saw the game was up.

 

[Chaco]

I also multi tab from my phone though so it shows me active when I’m not. So who knows.

 

[Xivii]

Ok so are you still not seeing my point?

There was no reason for me to think you were lurking. I was the first person to view the thread and post. It was a joke list based off nothing.

But you replied as if I was really considering that you were lurking. Do you agree or disagree?

 

[Xivii]

Here's another example.

Xenon says Carla is the president of the united states, an obvious fiction. Does it make sense for Carla to say "nah I'm not the president of the united states."

 

[Darkpit54]

In what way is the content different?

Also in that game Raxxel and Z25 were the scumteam and this is the advice I gave them after the game:



Does this change your view at all?

The content is different because the posts you linked were mostly explaining scumreads, on top of being much earlier in the game.

That advice does change things somewhat though, because his stance has been consistent all game.

Also want to let everyone know I likely won't be on again until much later tonight, but I'll try to catch up then