Midnight Ops Mafia: Game Thread. Game Over!

[Darkpit54]

Here's another example.

Xenon says Carla is the president of the united states, an obvious fiction. Does it make sense for Carla to say "nah I'm not the president of the united states."

I think it makes sense, as some others could have missed the joke, and believed that she was truly the president of the united states. It could help prevent confusion, if slightly unnecessary

 

[Malakandra]

Nah, I only proposed it last game because I was scum and knew I could control the disunity of town this way.

Oh well I'm stupid then I guess. I thought it genuinely helped lol

 

[Malakandra]

Funny, I thought you were reading me as scum in #977.



Why is pretending to be drunk any different from speaking in Haikus? Or emojis?



Actually, I did.


(I think the end quote here was cut off but I think I can guess what you were going for). So this isn't actually a case or a push, as far as I'm concerned. I'm giving an updated read on this slot based on new information. I have been trying to give my reads on the fly to minimize the amount of rereading I have to do later. Scum lean is a slot I will consider dropping a vote on, but isn't necessarily my strongest scumread.

Speaking of which, what is your read on BoomFrog? You had left him as blank in #977.

This feels like you're looking for an excuse to scumread me. You didn't comment at all on the case Trisscar made on this or when Chaco concurred with his analysis later so I find it very suspicious that you focus only on my mention of this. I am not questioning whether Ex was drunk or not, I just think it is possible that Ex was intentionally hamming it up in his posting.

Regardless, Ex slot is one that I've had my eye on for awhile. I had been giving him a bit more credit recently as he was being targeted by FrozenFlame, but I still think there's a good chance that Ex is mafia or, maybe more likely, traitor.

Gah, I always come back to these posts. I just can't picture scumbuddies Laser and Z making these. They feel too...standoffish I guess?

DP, Exlight, Xivii, Chaco, what do you guys think of these?

 

[Chaco]

Ok so are you still not seeing my point?

There was no reason for me to think you were lurking. I was the first person to view the thread and post. It was a joke list based off nothing.

But you replied as if I was really considering that you were lurking. Do you agree or disagree?

I don’t know what you think early game, and didn’t discern your style til late this game so far, even then I only loosely understand your style.

Right and I get your point, I switched as it was taken more seriously. But I still think it’s largely irrelevant and waste of time. Talk to me post game about not liking it when you know I’m 100% town and can see what I’m saying is accurate.

 

[Chaco]

Gah, I always come back to these posts. I just can't picture scumbuddies Laser and Z making these. They feel too...standoffish I guess?

DP, Exlight, Xivii, Chaco, what do you guys think of these?

I don’t see it as largely indicative of not being buddies. It’s casual banter and not really hardened stances, imo. I can see why you’d think that, but I don’t think it personally rules anything out for me.

 

[Xivii]

Scummate Analysis ​

O = Potential Scummates
X = Unlikely Scummates
X = Not Scummates

Alright continuing on...

O Chaco and Laser

The early interactions between Chaco and Laser (D1 and D2) have a good deal of scummate potential. Chaco more or less ignores Laser on both of these days. This is odd because Chaco reacted strongly to me pushing him on Day 1 and Day 2, and he reacted strongly to Boom pushing him. Yet when LaserGuy pushed him Day 1 he completely ignored him, and when LaserGuy joined my push on him D2, he barely responded. At first, I thought otherwise because he made a big megapost in response, but looking at it closely, he only responds to LaserGuy in a couple of lines and the rest is a gaint AtE speech regarding my gambits which had nothing to do with what we were pushing him for.

On Day 3, however, Chaco's disposition toward Laser changes entirely and he looks to be legitimately pushing for his yeet. There were many opportunities where he could have simply joined in pushing Rajam or someone else instead. It's hard to see it coming from a scummate, but I do have to wonder if they just decided to have Laser be bussed after Rajam started pushing for it so hard. Chaco only began to consider Laser once Rajam prodded him on it. I'll go into details now.

Day 1

Is Xivii's posting rate a bad thing? I don't understand how this vote follows from the statement above.

Laser is town vibey to me rn cause he brings genuine question

This is minor, but Chaco never responds to Laser's question here I don't think? He's responded to everyone else at this point. This is something I see frequently between scummates, where they forget to respond to one another since there's no pressure to do so.


LaserGuy does the same thing here, never following up on Chaco's responses:

Why do you think Xivii is feigning activity rather than just being active?



This feels very defensive. Xivii's post was obviously in jest.



I don't really get where you think BoomFrog is taking Xivii's word as fact. I don't really like this post at all.

Unvote
Vote: Chaco

because as I asked Raxxel, point me out to anything of any value that Xivii has actually brought forward.
And tbr I don’t that post was jest because he went through and looked at multiple peoples activities, so how do you see that as jest? Many of his other posts have completely been pointless. I mean I understand we are D1 and you can only do so much at game start, but anytime I’ve seen activity levels like that with basically nothing to say dumb/scum. So you tell me which. He doesn’t seem dumb to me. Like I said I have to assess his other town play to have a basis of comparison, but as of right now, it seems to be presenting his face with only surface basis.

and suspicion of boom frog? He says I get defensive about lurking and saying that in defensiveness I attack the most active person. I mean can you hear the chainsaw? Attack to protect.

Furthermore, Chaco ignored my LaserGuy case entirely. This is the response after I made that giant case:

We are both on BoomFrog for two differing reasons. I just see him as kind’ve limited in how he will push. He made assertions towards me regarding you, and then later pushed back against you. Not sure of the connection there. But I see something there. Not sure if it’s one sided coming from BoomFrog. I agree with Frozens sentiment if Raxx’s defense of you early on as well. So my thought process would be as follows, BoomFrog as scum would lead me to Raxx with a common denominator being you. Now, is that to creating a false tie to scape, or would you be the scum buddy. Outside of that connection, Raxx doesn’t throw anything off to me. That’s the only common thing I’ve seen between the two.

Overall though I feel better about your playerslot with the increased activity in a way that’s beneficial. It’s leaving stances that won’t leave you wiggle room as you are laying out while thought processes. So honestly, it’ll be easy to nail you to the wall if you are tied in.

Frozen hasn’t posted enough for me to really see what’s in his head. But afaik and can remember, pretty typical of his play style early on. He’s not a huge poster if I remember right? But I’m interested to see how we progress.

3DSNinja needs to put some thoughts in or gtfo. That whole I’m fearful of getting lynched or killed D1/N1 is just dumb to me. Like that doesn’t do anything for anyone other than waste space and leave questions about his slot.

jackrito is unknown to me.

NSG is still unknown to me to, haven’t seen enough.

I like somitomo rn.

Laserguy I need to look back at in iso to see where I stand on him.

Like I make this giant case on LaserGuy and his response is to go into BoomFrog and barely give LaserGuy a cursory glance?

And I agree his I’m so town look at me is borderline AtE or just more antics. But I think it’s funny how quickly NSG voted BoomFrog after Xivii’s case, and BoomFrog and Xivii are on “opposite” ends now.

So I have a suspicion that Chaco mixing up Boom and LaserGuy here is fake and made to look like they aren't aligned. Same for this here:

Laser was not on Frozen wagon at end of day 1. He pushed him slightly beforehand and let it go before Fonti’s push.

God I literally have messed up names this entire game. My b! Like holy crap I may get them right before endgame.

The reason why I think it's faked is because for one it's not really easy to mix up the player you have the strongest scum read on with a player you think is town, especially considering they only share 2 letters in their name, and have completely unrelated avatars. For two, LaserGuy made this post at the same time:

Chaco , do you prefer male or female pronouns.

I'm not kidding. They literally made theses posts one right after the other. Chaco's gender was kind of obvious considering his speech patterns, username, and avatar. It was quite out of place for Laser to ask this. If he was genuinely trying to get clarification on genders why didn't he ask Dark Pit as well?

I think it's quite likely that at this time, they came up with the idea in the scum chat to make some anti-partner slips:

"Look guys we aren't scum together because I don't know his gender."
"Oh whoops I confused you with a completely different user, surely that wouldn't happen if we were scummates right?"

The more that I think about it, the more I think this is an accurate deduction.

More of Chaco just giving Laser a cursory glance:

LaserGuy I actually get what people are saying there. I almost want to subscribe to the meta of him because I can see the fact he would normally play a more in depth townLaser.

Nothing about this makes sense. He gets what people are saying about him, but? He never looks into Laser at all past this.

Day 2
They essentially ignore each other. Laser joins my push saying the case is "interesting." Chaco deflects and talks about my gambits.

Day 3

So Day 3 is when Chaco's disposition toward LaserGuy changes. This is after Rajam asks for him to go into his Laser read. At first, Chaco gives a non-committal and rambly response:

Chaco, talk to me about Laser

Along with your impressions tell me how willing are you in lynching him

Laser is a hard read for me cause he posts with little inflection. As pointed out before, my game mechanics are just grossly rusty. So I’m basically relying on motive and inflection, deriving intent from the way they speak and things they choose to talk about/ignore/etc. So basically I’m pure gutting, which was wrong with Boom. But like I said numerous times, I wanted to like their slot so much, but the FF connection nagged at me too bad. Which leaves me where I’m at toDay, and not basing off of anything FF did or said.

Truthfully I need to reread Laser, along with the game, because they’ve been so background all game. They’ll come in and make a post or two, and it’s nothing that I feel has been heavy in the game. So they’ve slipped off of my radar most game. Which is more reflective on me, obviously the way I’m playing is not working. So I need to brush up on mafia a bit more again, and read from a different perspective.

So long post short, I’m gonna reread and tell you my thoughts there, as well as overall.

Four pages later is where Rajam starts to hard push Laser and where Chaco starts to go in that direction:

Lynch Laser toMorrow. You'll find more scummy content and words in Z25, but Laser needs to go first. It's either Laser + Z25 or Laser + ExLight. I really bet on Laser + Z25 but I'm more sure on Laser than on Z25 and that's why he needs to go first

I was rereading from Fonti just now, and man I was so sucked into Xivii and looking back it’s so much easier to see now.

Overall from where I’m at now:

I trust Mala’s slot.
I’m actually okay with Xivii right now.
DP is obvious.
Truss’s jump on FF wagon is to early to be scum indicative, but I’m interested in Fonti’s concerns of the slot.
I like Rajam’s new content.

Really I don’t think scum would be arrogant enough to put K. and then vote on a bus to their mate, but I don’t like Laser D1 looking so much.Its like their reads from D1 to now have changed vastly, and it doesn’t feel due to game progression. Long elaborate lists and fluff, but so easy to forget.
Vote: Laserguy

From this chain of posts, I believe Chaco really was pushing for a LaserGuy yeet at this point:

I’ll make a case pointing out stuff I disliked necessary in depth if need be. Work is crazy so I’m kindve taken away from it all.

wife’s birthday is Friday, so I’ll be gone that evening and probably into mid day Saturday from sleeping in.

Tell me that’s not hammered.

Someone needs to unvote then and need leave the hammer cocked.

Completely disagree with the bottom. Who would you turn to if he flips town? And would any of those reasons be based off of the fact he was town?

Im hesitant of Rajam cause FF actually pushed for him as an option at end of D1. Meaning he would swing an easy mislynch if completed. Jackrito really wasn’t around either. And outside of that, and a few comment that were distasteful I don’t see anything blaring scum. Now that I’ve seen the backpeddle on Z25 it’s a bit different, but I’m just not seeing it, so help me with that? It feels more PoE to me currently.

Laser has been disengaged and bland. No inflection. Hardly any insight unless prodded. Look at his read list from D1/D2. Had me as top town listed to toDay pushing at me. That doesn’t seem game evolved to me. More so seems like following Triss and hoping he can gain momentum.

If a Lynch feels to easy, it’s cause it is. And that’s what Rajams feels like to me right now.

Rajam was close to hammer, and Chaco intervenes while simultaneously pushing LaserGuy.

These posts also don't look like an SvS interaction:

LaserGuy Say you gain traction and Lynch Rajam/me, the Lynch flips town, who is the next Day push and why? If Rajam is lynched and flips scum, why am I paired with him? Alternatively, in the case of my Lynch, does Rajam still ping you as scum when I flip town?

Same question to ExLight as Laser.

Okay, so first of all, at the end of D1 you were pushing a claimed PR over mafia.

Regardless of the fact that we now know his claim was fake, at the time, that information was unknown except possibly to mafia. Yeeting a PR is very detrimental to Town in this setup and protecting FF is very beneficial to mafia so the players engaged in either of those behaviours, let alone both, have been on my list of suspects since the start of D2. Moreover, by the start of D2, you essentially conceded that Xivii was Town, not on the basis of his claim, but on the basis of his participation in the Frozen lynch. See:

So if he's Town because he's lynched mafia, he's Town regardless of whether or not his claim is fake. I feel that you changing your read there was opportunistic and not Town motivated--you found a reason to target a slot that was de facto cleared by the majority of the players, and were trying to set them up as a viable candidate to yeet somewhere down the line.



If Rajam flips scum, I imagine you are too.




Your reply to Xivii in his comments connecting you and Rajam is very, very, similar in tone and substance to your comments on Frozen above and leads me to believe that you/Rajam are likely partners. If Rajam is Town, wagon analysis says Mala would be a plausible candidate partner for you with an outside chance of z25. If you are Town, then it may be Rajam/Mala as Xivii is suggesting, but I haven't reviewed the evidence for that pairing yet so I don't know.

If neither you nor Rajam is mafia then I have been very wrong somewhere about at least one of my Townreads and would need to spend a lot of time working back through the game to figure out what is going on.



If we hit mafia, it is probably fine for the remaining mason to remain hidden for another Day if they don't have a result in hopes of dodging the NK. If we hit Town, then the probably need to claim to prevent any CC shenanigans.

LaserGuy has been here about as much as you think they have looking back at the game. The jump on Frozen after Fonti posted we have decided on Frozen just doesn’t seem like a scum bus to me, but so much else does not feel like town.

Furthermore you think a player of FFs caliber is going to deliberately pocket me as scum buddies and me do the same to Rajam. Your whole post up there reads worse and worse each time.

You were asking why I scumread your slot. Those reasons still stand. The fact that you have changed your tune now after you gained zero traction from your previous push does not mean that the push didn't happen, or that it was pure.



In an open/semi-open setup a miller is functionally the same as a named Townie. Town is stronger in this setup with the chocolate Town than without.

LaserGuy Because the points against you are just as bad as the ones against Rajam, and you’re telling me you wouldn’t say there’s no case on you? Just because it suits your agenda doesn’t mean it’s right. This push is based off of his beginning of day post and PoE essentially. The other post was geared more towards Z25 and Boom, and ONCE AGAIN PoE for Rajam being scum. If you’re gonna try and resurrect Fonti’s reads, bounce them off of Booms and see who fits. The answer would be Z25.

And Chaco even parks his vote on Laser when he heads off to his party:

Vote: LaserGuy

And with that I’m out of here, see y’all at some point tomorrow!

And if for some unknown reason you swing a wagon onto me while I’m gone:

Look heavily at Triss after day start claim. If they aren’t a PR, they’re likely scum due to playstyle. I’ve been holding that comment back, but with EoD coming and my return time uncertain, just covering all basis.

Look heavily at who tried to tie me to what spots and why. Sans Xivii cause he’s literally underneath the earth tunneling with me.

PoE VT claims cause there’s a set number and some won’t make sense, and scum will definitely fake claim there. Mason is way to risky.

Don’t allow people to coast town in endgame.

Z over Mala as scum.
Laser over Rajam, as of right now.

I feel like Triss v Jack is something important somehow. So look at it.

I think this would also be hard post to make about your scummate:

I don't really find the arguments about the associations that compelling, actually. I think you're looking at this too much from how you operate as a power wolf, where you are planning your mislynches two day phases ahead and are working towards those objectives. This IMHO isn't how a lot of scum operate. Rather, a majority of scum players I've observed tend to go with the flow and don't necessarily plan as far ahead as you do--or at all--and thus, may not be as sensitive to how changing those associations may affect them in the long run. Chaco in particular does not strike me as not a long-term planning type of player, so I can envision a lot of circumstances where he doesn't worry about this or would rather pocket some townie credit for being wrong instead.

As far as a Town case for Chaco is concerned, the points that jump out to me mostly are:
-Tone. I usually associate the shoot-from-the-hip IDGAF tone that Chaco has with Town.
-#2065-2075 where he claims VT and his comments to the effect that he feels doing so kind of clears him feels genuine. It's really wrong mechanically but this is the kind of argument I would be somewhat surprised to see scum advance because it would be very obviously wrong from scum point of view. This IMHO the closest thing to a Towntell I've seen from Chaco.
-I agree with Rajam that Chaco's kind of angle-shooty #2203 also feels townie.
-His thought process and his way of evaluating also give a townie impression.

I’ll vote Z25 or laser

One last note. This post by Chaco seems incredibly townie. This has to be town right?

Sorry if you’re town Rajam. But just consensus you feel me?

And will use it toMorrow.

Triss is likely scum if not a PR. Meta fits perfect for lurk scum after called out for play.

So in conclusion, I'm conflicted. Their interactions D1 and D2 are full of scummate potential. But Day 3 they both seem to be genuinely pushing each other. On top of that, Chaco's tone and play became uber town. Based on the fact that they didn't begin to push each other until Rajam did, however, I'm going to say it's not outside the realm of possibility that they just decided to hard bus here.

50% Scummates

 

[Xivii]

Mala, I'm doing Z and Laser next, so I'll look into it there.

 

[Malakandra]

Sorry if you’re town Rajam. But just consensus you feel me?

And will use it toMorrow.

Triss is likely scum if not a PR. Meta fits perfect for lurk scum after called out for play.

What about this post makes you see it as incredibly townie? Tome it just looks like setting himself up to not take responsibility for a misyeet.

 

[Xivii]

I really just can't see scum making the second line. It's so easy going. It's hard to explain but it's the towniest thing I've ever seen lol. Like OK so if you're scum trying to not take responsibility here, you would want to make it look like the yeet is bad. But what Chaco is doing here is looking at the bright side of how the flip can be utilized.

The third line is also townie because he's straight up just revealing that Triss is a PR. Why would scum do that here.

Lol if you are scum in so getting lynched toMorrow for this post

If not, on it

Looking at this response soon after that post and this is town af too. You know what, **** it, Chaco is town.

 

[Xivii]

No going back, it's too townie. We lose the game to scum Chaco.


0% DP
5% Ex
10% Chaco

? % Mala
? % Z25
80 % Laser

This Laser/Z read through will determine whether we should go Mala or Z25.

 

[Chaco]

Well you won’t lose the game to me, cause I’m not scum. Lol. Thank you for finally deriving my tone.

 

[Chaco]

I forgot about that post I made about laser seeming more in depth. I agree with that more than ever now though, he seems lacking in contribution but not ability. Noncommittal kinda.

Im thinking Mala Laser is scum. Z just creates too much townie feel to me at times. But I could be wrong and he’s scum, but overall I just think that he’s got more natural posting to him. Doesn’t seem safeguarded like Mala and laser. Lasers concision is scary, not helpful. Ya feel me? Mala seems guarded. They feel the least natural to me out of every slot.

 

[ExLight]

there's way too ****ing much to iso please can we get an extension :v

 

[Xivii]

I'm not going to be here Monday mate.

 

[ExLight]

Tuesday? :v

 

[Xivii]

All week I'll be entirely without internet access.

 

[Z25]

Heads up that I won’t really be active here tomorrow, I have a long day of irl stuff, but I’ll try and get on at night as I want to evaluate Zen’s teammate analysis posts based when he finishes all of them and see how I feel the .

 

[Z25]

Heads up that I won’t really be active here tomorrow, I have a long day of irl stuff, but I’ll try and get on at night as I want to evaluate Zen’s teammate analysis posts based when he finishes all of them and see how I feel the .

*EBWOp: then.

 

[Chaco]

Yeah with it being a Sunday deadline we need to kindve roughly establish a time for everyone votes to be in and done with that way we aren’t scrambling at EOD like usual.

 

[Malakandra]

I'm going to be in a car driving for most of tomorrow, so I should be on quite a bit. Will be driving in the mountains though so might lose data occasionally

 

[ExLight]

While I'm kind of flattered by your compliments of my play, I also don't think this is a particularly accurate characterization. The only features of my Town play that I think are particularly noteworthy is that I can usually draw the NK if I want to, and I can usually avoid getting mislynched and get deep into a game. But my read accuracy is typically fairly middling, if not poor and I don't have the charisma of someone like Ran to completely dominate a game and force scum to actively work around me. Sumting Sumting mafia was a rare exception where I actually had a good Town game overall.



I feel that there's some context here that you're ignoring. You're looking at this game's post #22 where there is virtually no content. Of course it is surface level. The push you're comparing it to was 60+ pages deep into a game where I was trying to emulate being in a lynch scramble faced with two wagons that I thought were both probably bad, but I didn't have the time or energy to actually be able to motivate it properly.



This is IMHO where the main problem in your whole argument lies. I don't consider a POV slip to be a newbie behaviour. It's one of the few/only reliable slips that I have ever seen strong mafia players, including you (see post 150/152) make on occasion and Town players very, very, rarely do. This early in the game with a newish player is probably one of the few situations where it is not particularly reliable, but it's good enough for a scum lean on page 1.



If you mean questions like "Hey BoomFrog, what do you think of my point on NSG?", I'm really struggling to think of a situation where I would actually do this. It just isn't how I tend to approach getting information from people. I prefer to see what people choose to react to voluntarily and what they choose to ignore.

I don't know if there's really any point in me addressing the associative reads since your main premise is flawed. There are a few observations in there that I'm going to file away as potentially useful, though.

I do now believe you're likely Town though.

@fontisian: I see your question but I'll have to get to it tomorrow.

this made me sleepy
reactive post

Chaco , do you prefer male or female pronouns.

ping

Leaning Town on fonti and somitomi.

two town being townread, which is good

No, following the end of day incident I assumed you were locktown as did, I think, basically everyone else.

feels like pocketing

FrozenFlame feels very similar to the games I've played with him before. Very lurky, thinks deeply. I seem to recall he teaches courses in mafia or something though, so I'm assuming he's got his own BoomFrog medal of honor kicking around somewhere. Putting him at nullTown.

Townleaning confirmed scum; also scumBoom, and NullNGS in the same post

Hmm... thinking about this more, your (BoomFrog) being obsessed with Xivii's "I'm so Town" shtick is probably more likely coming from Town. I think scum!Boom is probably more likely just to roll with it and not worry about trying to figure out what Xivii is up to even if he doesn't understand it. I think I'll move Boom up to nullTown.

moved boom to townlean

somi > Jack > 3DS > Raxxel

is left scummiest or towniest? dropped somi to scum without much explanation, seems kinda like jumping in the mass scumread that was forming around them

My strongest scumreads right now are Jackrito and somitomi.

ok so left was scummier
it's coherent at least

Vote Extension

I'm not sure how much I can be around on Saturday so this works really well for me, actually.

apparently he really wasn't around during saturday, so that's good
wasn't lurking

Town
Chaco
Xivii
Darkpit
Fontisian
Trisscar
FrozenFlame
NSG
Mala
Jackrito
Somi
Z25
Scum

I interesting readslist
if he's the traitor he might've put the scumbuds at the extremes and exact middle of the list though

Would like to see some votes from non-voters or people on vanity wagons.

I don't really have time to debate the merits of Xivii's claim right now. Happy to discuss on D2. He never should be the play today.

that's pretty towny

Haven't read the last few pages. Of the three of prefer jack but if there's another place I can go there too.

vote Jack

He knows he'd look bad for this and maybe lynched
Again, no point in doing that unless he wanted to save FF which I could see instinctively coming from a traitor

Alternatively, it can be as legit rushed townie who hasn't been keeping up much.

K.

vote frozen

Trusted their top townread and voted someone in the middle of their list, feels natural. If really traitor would've let the votes weight on themselves probably.

 

[ExLight]

ok, so ISOed Laser in D1 and I'm not finding him too scummy now that I'm looking carefully, going to D2 now

 

[ExLight]

moved boom to townlean

actually where did boom go in the readslist and why did you vote him later that day if he was a townlean
if your read on him changed at some point can you point out where LaserGuy

 

[Xivii]

Could everyone that has time do a full review of Darkpit?

 

[ExLight]

ok, real talk why everyone keeps saying I don't know how traitors work :v

I've played like 3 games with traitors, I know how they work
did I goof anywhere
I remember trying to clarify details that usually vary in-thread but that was it :v

 

[ExLight]

oh god the drunk part is so cringe

im mot much better sober

this cracked me up fsr

 

[ExLight]

Most interesting to me here is the middle VC. I don't see either Pit or Triss as likely mafia here... Triss was around right up till end of day and I just can't see scum bussing hard against their own PR in this scenario. If either Triss or Pit moves to Xivii, here, that could be enough for Frozen to hae slipped away. Xivii wagon looks very suspect here. Would be very surprised if there was not at least one mafia on that wagon. Chaco was pushing hard on Xivii and suggesting NL as an alternative which looks very bad. Boom pushed Frozen earlier but the case was nothing and he dropped it very suddenly and to move hard on Xivii. Mala was pushing hard on Xivii but swung over. Could be late bus. I think any of these are good lynches for today.

that's a good analysis

I am not questioning whether Ex was drunk or not, I just think it is possible that Ex was intentionally hamming it up in his posting.

Regardless, Ex slot is one that I've had my eye on for awhile. I had been giving him a bit more credit recently as he was being targeted by FrozenFlame, but I still think there's a good chance that Ex is mafia or, maybe more likely, traitor.

I have good enough evidence to put you at scum lean.

eh that's just tunneling

Most likely scum at this point are BoomFrog > Rajam > Exlight > z25. Malakandra and Chaco I have some reservations about but are probably Town. Everyone else I'm fairly confident is Town.

that's kind of a fair reads update, not sure why z25 was thrown up there specially after accusing you of pushing drunk me tho

Vote BoomFrog

Liking this better at the moment.

if Rajam was your second option why try to split the votes?

Town
fonti
Darkpit
Trisscar
Mala
Xivii

Exlight

BoomFrog
Rajam
z25
Chaco
Scum

Chaco and Z25 once again sharing a highlighted spot
Chaco went from top town read to top scum read in one phase which is pretty odd
Boom being an almost null but being the one they voted earlier is a bit weird

overall his activity declined quite a bit and he was a lot more reactive
I'm getting scummy vibes from D2, but again, I only see it making sense as traitor

 

[ExLight]

backpain so I'm gonna move to mobile and bed
expect typos and jank formatting

 

[Z25]

Could everyone that has time do a full review of Darkpit?

I’ll try to get one in tomorrow if I can.

 

[Xivii]

I'm about 90% sure it's Mala and LaserGuy. I found a legit town slip from Z:

Here’s my current read list with some amends having to be made due to switch ins and our flip:

Town:
Chaco: They’ve been actively participating, and with strong content. Posts like 870 I like because it’s rare for scum day one to have a hard stance like that when they can ride a usually free push on someone in the game without suspicion. To try and yeet zen a pretty strong player day one would be a bold move, that just doesn’t seem likely as a scum play. They stick to their own views regardless of the wagon, and that’s usually a pretty townie tell.

Alternatively you could argue they didn’t want to consider frozen who then flipped scum, but I doubt scum Cha tries to save his mate by pushing a stronger player who had a solid claim behind them.

zen: Honestly pretty simple, he started out a little different then usual, but I see more of his usual self here. He’s listened and changed opinions based on points which is pretty townie oriented. Caring so much about getting people to vote near the end of the day is something, scum zen likely wouldn’t do when his mate was in hot water. Plus as I said, his slogan is to win with all mates alive, I don’t think that will change(and it shouldn’t because that’s a fun goal but that isn’t important).

Fonti: pretty self explanatory. She made solid points against FF, and can be confirmed.

Mostly likely Town;

Darkpit: they’ve been engaging actively, seem to have a fair understanding but still the vibes of someone who wants to learn more through their posts, which feels more like a townie whose newish, and not likely to be coached by someone like FF who seems to be a strong player from what the thread said. They’ve been actively trying to be involved as well and it feels more town motivated.

Triss: They provide good content and observations when here. Their list that functioned as a psudeo reads lost but also observed The general gist of each player was pretty good. It also makes for a useful tool to think on, so I don’t think scum does that day one.

Mala: They’ve been here often, actively participates and again provides observations that are clear attempts to try and solve. It’s hard to fake some of the confusion they have had, which is something a townie will have more then scum due to the latter having better


Null:
Boom:
Triss:
Honestly I’m going to cover both of these as my thoughts are similar. They’ve provided content but are still pretty hard players to read. I haven’t felt strongly one at or another for their alignment.

NSG: well he barely posted but was apparently town( flip happened as I typed this up), so I had no good read oh him.

Good Scum candidate:

Jack:
Somi/Ex:

Both of them weren’t as active, and I didn’t think much of their content, (mostly jacks as somi was a lot less on my radar with their content amount being small). I want to give ex a chance to disprove or prove this though. So I have to see where it goes from here.

Laser: seems to be playing more of a back seat role like how in 657 he mentions how he’s basically just following zen. Feels kind of pocketing, and is different then how I’ve seen him play previously. Then again he started in a previous game as scum with a very different and strange strategy aimed at getting reactions, so I don’t know how he could adapt here, but he’s worth looking at.

This is the read list Z typed up and then amended after the D1 and N1 flip. If you notice, there's one thing that's not like the others: my name. It's the only one in lower case. Before the Frozen flip, Z was weighing both me and Frozen. The fact that my name is the only one uncapitalized indicates that he legit edited his list after the Frozen flip.

 

[ExLight]

I'm about 90% sure it's Mala and LaserGuy. I found a legit town slip from Z:



This is the read list Z typed up and then amended after the D1 and N1 flip. If you notice, there's one thing that's not like the others: my name. It's the only one in lower case. Before the Frozen flip, Z was weighing both me and Frozen. The fact that my name is the only one uncapitalized indicates that he legit edited his list after the Frozen flip.

are
are you giving he a free pass over not pressing shift while typing a single letter

 

[ExLight]

that's a joke right

 

[Xivii]

Still going to finish the iso for completion's sake.

 

[Xivii]

Z25 what's with the double Triss read in that read list? You have her both as a town lean and as null?

 

[Z25]

Z25 what's with the double Triss read in that read list? You have her both as a town lean and as null?

That’s there from an earlier draft of my list. I didn’t realize it was still there when I posted. Triss was still a null at that time but the stuff in the town read part was what had me thinking mostly well of the slot and wanting more.

 

[Z25]

are
are you giving he a free pass over not pressing shift while typing a single letter

Zen is right though. When I edit drafts it’s usually on my mobile which does not capitalize my letters all the time or it may even randomly capitalize things.

I’m not saying it earns a town pass but yes that is why it’s not capitalized. If I’m writing something straight out I always captalize, especially reads lists. But in rewritting things, my posts don’t also stay capitalized.

 

[ExLight]

That post in particular is a discussion I would have rather had during D2 but never got around to it because of hammer came before I was able to. I don't think we should be in a hurry to lynch anyone. Anyway, I'm not sure if I want to lynch Chaco yet today. I would probably prefer Rajam at this moment and if Rajam flips scum then I think Chaco is likely scum as well.

You didn't want to lynch who was your top scumread at the EoD of the previous day? what happened?

Look, I'm not going to argue that my contributions have been stellar this game. I just literally don't have 4+ hours per day, several days per week, including weekends, to play mafia. Maybe that just means I can't play on this site, I don't know. On xkcd where I used to play, we only had a handful of full games that had over 1000 posts. Most were around 800 for 13 players. So the posting rate here is 3-5x higher than what I'm used to. Yes, I'm struggling to keep up with the frenetic pace of the games here. It's been the same every game I've played on the site so far, and I haven't found a good way to work it out.

hmm

As I said, I don't play mafia on weekends except in the evening after my kids go to bed. I will try to squeeze in the odd post on my phone if I can during the day only because the deadlines keep falling on the weekends this game. But yes, it will be the same D3 and D4 and any subsequent day that I am alive this game. I feel that the fact that I have already make comments to this effect multiple times throughout the course of the game mostly shows that you aren't really actually trying to sort me at all.

oh that explains a few things

Okay, so first of all, at the end of D1 you were pushing a claimed PR over mafia.

Regardless of the fact that we now know his claim was fake, at the time, that information was unknown except possibly to mafia. Yeeting a PR is very detrimental to Town in this setup and protecting FF is very beneficial to mafia so the players engaged in either of those behaviours, let alone both, have been on my list of suspects since the start of D2. Moreover, by the start of D2, you essentially conceded that Xivii was Town, not on the basis of his claim, but on the basis of his participation in the Frozen lynch. See:

So if he's Town because he's lynched mafia, he's Town regardless of whether or not his claim is fake. I feel that you changing your read there was opportunistic and not Town motivated--you found a reason to target a slot that was de facto cleared by the majority of the players, and were trying to set them up as a viable candidate to yeet somewhere down the line.

If Rajam flips scum, I imagine you are too.

Your reply to Xivii in his comments connecting you and Rajam is very, very, similar in tone and substance to your comments on Frozen above and leads me to believe that you/Rajam are likely partners. If Rajam is Town, wagon analysis says Mala would be a plausible candidate partner for you with an outside chance of z25. If you are Town, then it may be Rajam/Mala as Xivii is suggesting, but I haven't reviewed the evidence for that pairing yet so I don't know.

If neither you nor Rajam is mafia then I have been very wrong somewhere about at least one of my Townreads and would need to spend a lot of time working back through the game to figure out what is going on.

If we hit mafia, it is probably fine for the remaining mason to remain hidden for another Day if they don't have a result in hopes of dodging the NK. If we hit Town, then the probably need to claim to prevent any CC shenanigans.

really pushing chaco, and was pushing Z25 earlier in the phase
uh, maybe he really is scumreading them instead of trying to get their attention?

I'm assuming your preference for Malakandra is essentially due to this? Rajam looks fairly obvscum but Mala might be too slippery if we don't get them quickly?

This feels right to me.

nevermind he did a 180º and started going after Mala and Raj instead of Chaco and Z25

Why don't you feel there has been a case of Rajam? Xivii just posted a large case on him earlier today. fonti put out several arguments for him such as #1472 and #1485. And yes, lots of people have found ways to strongly clear themselves as Town this game, so the PoE pool is very small and the threshold for being cleared is higher for those of us (myself included) who remain in the PoE.

bad post

z25 is in the 3DS slot and I think he is probably Town. I do not believe that z25 townslipped, but I do think it is unlikely that 3DS was mafia unless his buddies completely abandoned him basically from the start of the game. 3DS' play would fit as traitor but z25 has posted several things suggesting that he does not understand the mechanics of the role at all so I think he is probably not traitor.

I think both Chaco and Rajam are mafia and am fine with either one.

I am the only counterwagon to Rajam. He has no choice but to push me.

how did Z25 go all the way to the top of the list aaa

As far as a Town case for Chaco is concerned, the points that jump out to me mostly are:
-Tone. I usually associate the shoot-from-the-hip IDGAF tone that Chaco has with Town.
-#2065-2075 where he claims VT and his comments to the effect that he feels doing so kind of clears him feels genuine. It's really wrong mechanically but this is the kind of argument I would be somewhat surprised to see scum advance because it would be very obviously wrong from scum point of view. This IMHO the closest thing to a Towntell I've seen from Chaco.
-I agree with Rajam that Chaco's kind of angle-shooty #2203 also feels townie.
-His thought process and his way of evaluating also give a townie impression.

weren't you just saying that if rajam was scum then chaco was too??
and weren't you voting rajam, implying you were scumreading both? now chaco's town?


hate the insane flipflopping D3
not sure what to think

 

[ExLight]

This is the read list Z typed up and then amended after the D1 and N1 flip. If you notice, there's one thing that's not like the others: my name. It's the only one in lower case. Before the Frozen flip, Z was weighing both me and Frozen. The fact that my name is the only one uncapitalized indicates that he legit edited his list after the Frozen flip.

or that he just took his time completing the reads at different times on different devices, it's a lengthy post after all
doesn't mean anything

Zen is right though. When I edit drafts it’s usually on my mobile which does not capitalize my letters all the time or it may even randomly capitalize things.

I’m not saying it earns a town pass but yes that is why it’s not capitalized. If I’m writing something straight out I always captalize, especially reads lists. But in rewritting things, my posts don’t also stay capitalized.

it's not really a good point since it doesn't really mean much other than you edited a message on your phone
there's not a way to verify whether or not you started it before FF's flip or after which is prolly what he's thinking about

 

[ExLight]

crackpot hot theory I had since D2, Laser is the traitor with Z25 and Chaco

for some reason they bus FF, probably because they thought they wouldn’t get lynched instead, which ends up sentencing the partner
(whoops bus gone wrong)

tries to call Chaco and Z25 attention with readslist, putting them in VERY noticeable spots and then moving them abruptly

once Z25/Chaco somehow notice him he cancels the sudo bussing and starts focusing all in on someone else (in D3’s case Rajam and Mala); either that or he realizes that if he keeps poking there he might reveal their partners if he gets lynched (iirc people were starting to comment a Laser lynch possibly if Rajam was town)

 

[ExLight]

crackpot solution: Lynch z25 or chaco (z pls), and if he flips scum lynch Laser, and if he flips traitor we lynch Chaco