Midnight Ops Mafia: Game Thread. Game Over!

[Malakandra]

Xivii, I'll address your new post later. I am going to go eat lunch and then do a virtual escape room with some people that are going to be in my college dorm room and around it.

 

[Trisscar]

Xivii, I'll address your new post later. I am going to go eat lunch and then do a virtual escape room with some people that are going to be in my college dorm room and around it.

That.... is a very interesting way to do a meet and greet. I approve.

 

[Xivii]

v cool

 

[Z25]

Good breakdown
Xivii

I don’t know if I see mala flipping suck though. It’s Worth considering . I think Rajam needs to go first because if they flip scum, we can definitely gain a lot of information and finding their mate shouldn’t be too hard from there. A town flip of them gives us a lot to evaluate as well.

Whereas Town Mala doesn’t gives us the same extent, and scum mala could be buddies with someone other than Rajam. It really comes down to the Rajam flip first imo.

 

[Malakandra]

That.... is a very interesting way to do a meet and greet. I approve.

It was pretty fun, doing an escape room is a lot different online than in person.

 

[ExLight]

I feel like Xiivi's analysis on Mala is partially omgus because of their D1 tunneling and I find z25 patting that opportunistic

 

[Z25]

I feel like Xiivi's analysis on Mala is partially omgus because of their D1 tunneling and I find z25 patting that opportunistic

I literally said I don’t think it’s mala though and a Rajam flip would make me consider it but not the other way around.

How is that opportunistic?

 

[ExLight]

I don’t know if I see mala flipping suck though. It’s Worth considering

this
although the meaning changes a bit depending on whether you meant "if mala flipping would suck" or "if I see mala flipping scum"

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Vote Count 3.02

[3] Rajam: Malakandra, Trisscar, ExLight
[2] Laserguy: Rajam, Chaco
[1] Malakandra: Xivii

Not voting: Darkpit54, LaserGuy, Z25

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to hammer.

Day 3 ends on July 18th at 8 PM EST​

 

[ExLight]

Town Read - DP, Triss, Xivii

Town Lean - Chaco, Laser

Null town - Exlight, Z25

Scum Read - Rajam

there are 2-3 scum around and only one considered remotely scummy person in your list
who'd you pair rajam with if he flipped scum

 

[Malakandra]

Which I don't know why he would have. I believe my hard push on Rajam and calling for a flash yeet put Mala in a position where he felt he needed to hard bus. The nice cleanup line stood out to me initially when he posted it. It's a bus line (or in the case of town!Rajam, an opportunistic line. Either way it's informed and not town).


Later on when the Rajam wagon was finding some relief and I was exploring Z25, Chaco, and Boom, Mala's disposition towards Rajam changed:

I know I'm more confident this game, and thats the reason why I made the nice cleanup line. I truly believed we had the thing mostly figured out, we had our town core, our PoE, and our most likely suspects. Everything in that article Fonti (I think it was Fonti) linked me last game on better town play. However, I'm not sure where you get the read that I'm so confident I buss both my scummates in the first two days on my first scum game.

He went from confidently wanting to flash yeet him, comfortable with him being at L-1, to subtly trying to dissuade it.

And then near the end where we are pushing Boom yeet, he goes in for the last dab of distance:

The guy asked me for time to catch up here. I asked him to defend himself, and he said he would later but he needed to catch up.

This completely contradicts his view above about wanting Rajam to catch up. And the reasoning in this post is all over the place. It's a mash of words that doesn't actually describe why Rajam should be yeeted over Boom.

This is over 500 posts after my post saying we should wait for Rajam to catch up, and much closer to EoD. It also describes why I wanted Rajam gone before boom decently well I feel though I'll admit the wording is confusing, see the below post of me saying I was tired. My first part is Rajam is more likely to be scum. My second part is saying Rajam has already claimed, therefore if we yeet boom, and boom turns out to be town, the pool of people for scum to target gets smaller and they have a higher chance of rolecoping of killing a mason.

This seems to me like an overreaction. No one had a reaction like this. Based on it's over the top nature, I'm inclined to believe that Mala already knew that I wasn't Chocolate. Or maybe they thought there was a traitor? shrug. Regardless, Mala was the only one who immediately declared me as strong town for the Chocolate retraction, and I believe it's coming from a place of TMI.

Boomfrog agreeing with my reaction, exlight also showing distress. I don't get how you think this is over the top for me. I had been pushing you hard day 1 for a lot of reasons, including that I didn't think your chocolate claim was legit and it could be easily faked. You specifically pushed back against me for that heavily as well. Its incredibly frustrating to figure out you had been right about a reason for pushing someone, that the person you were pushing suspected you for and pushed back hard on. Only for that person to them retract that and admit you were right much later, but clear themselves to you when doing so. Its super infuriating, but I didn't want you to die for it.

@Malakandra how would my death have caused paranoia and confusion?

Alright, so hypothetically you haven't retracted your climb and you get nightkilled that night instead of Fonti. You flip not chocolate, you saw the reaction when you retracted it and had reasoning, now imagine that but without you to give your reasoning. That shakes everything up, people start to question why you would do that, if you had some big plan, and a whole bunch of other confusion that distracts from the game actually progressing forward.

@Malakandra can you rephrase this. I don't understand it.

I can try.

Alright so, your Chaco here. You are an incredibly gut reader, who sees things that aren't logical and don't help town in their eyes as bad. You retracting your claim sets off alarms in Chaco's head that something is off. You still think Xivii is town because of his push on FF, but don't think his logic made sense. You push Xivii about his logic and reasoning behind his claim being bad, since you were right about it being fakeable by scum, and see a lot of downsides in the plan. However, Xivii holds strong saying that his logic was solid. You think that doesn't add up, and if Xivii isn't seeing your reasoning, it must be for a reason. That reason being he is scum and purposely being stubborn and using it as an excuse to push back against you.

This is what I see from reading Chaco's posts about the situation.

 

[Malakandra]

there are 2-3 scum around and only one considered remotely scummy person in your list
who'd you pair rajam with if he flipped scum

I think a Rajam scum flip most indicates Chaco, as he has been defensive of Rajam the most

 

[ExLight]

give me another one if you think there's a traitor around

if you think Rajam is scum then why are they above me and Z25?
and who would you put in the scum team if Rajam flips town? your entire list is at least townleans

 

[ExLight]

why are they above me and Z25?

erh, by them I mean Chaco

 

[Z25]

this
although the meaning changes a bit depending on whether you meant "if mala flipping would suck" or "if I see mala flipping scum"

That was meant to say I don’t see mala flipping scum, but if Rajam did I would consider it.( as in consider zen’s case more).

I wouldn’t look right away at mala if rajam was scum. I’d review Rajam’s posts and form judgement from there.

 

[Xivii]

Players Who Have Town Slipped or Locked Town

Spoiler

Xivii is town because he wouldn't have recanted the Chocolate claim as scum.

Darkpit is town and doesn't need to be explained.

Triss is town for her early vote on the Frozen wagon.

ExLight = town slip galore: #899 preemptively discredits a Frozen PR claim. Further discrediting it. #929 is incredibly pure. I don't think he was aware what Frozen would flip at all. And tying the wagon like this would just clear a townie if they hammered Frozen. This is just not the behavior of someone who thinks their mate was just executed. Town. Ok I'm just going to end the iso here. Ex has so many posts that come from an uninformed perspective.

Players Who Have Town Slipped But Are Suspicious

Spoiler

Z25
Points in his favor: #1966, #1955, #1947 are very natural and easy-going as opposed to rigid in an attempt to be nice and keep himself alive. He's not playing to his scum meta where he just plays in commentary mode and not much about stuff that is really relevant to solving. He stated that if Frozen flipped town, we should look into me before Frozen was executed. His read list he posted at the beginning of D2 looked like he genuinely rearranged it after the flips.

Points against him: Assuming that NSG would have been a ML. Speaking from the perspective that I am town. Speaking from the perspective that Boom was going to flip town. Pushing me as traitor when he didn't believe that I would bus. He used some of his scum phrases early on.

Conclusion: I'm inclined to believe in the underlined town slip more than his suspicious behavior.



Chaco
Points in his favor: his #522 and #1244 seem genuine. I don't think scum!Chaco disassociates me with the Boom yeet knowing Boom is going to flip town #1945. He also associated me with BoomFrog numerous times early Day 1. I don't think this aligns with a scum agenda, knowing that one of us is just going to flip town which would force him to have to reevaluate his read on the other. Asking me about my read of BoomFrog in #66 seemed like he was genuinely investigating the association.

Points against him: Seeking claims since D1/rolefishing, pushed me over Frozen, pushed Boom over Rajam (only pertinent if Rajam flips scum), isn't addressing the core arguments against him, rather keeps moving the conversation to how he reacted to me.

Conclusion: If one of Malakandra and Rajam are town, I'm confident that yeeting here would end the game.

Players Who Haven't (Believably) Town Slipped

Spoiler

LaserGuy
Points in his favor: The Frozen vote sealed Frozen's execution. Non-distancing response in #413. Except for his push on NSG, his logic has been consistent, the reasoning behind all his actions line up. His tone is incredibly townie. I'm not sure how anyone is reading otherwise, am I delusional here?

Points against him: The only one besides Rajam and Mala without any town slips. Weird push on NSG. Weird vote onto Boom. Weird move away from Boom.

Conclusion: Not scum with Mala (Mala moved onto Frozen because Laser did and directly stated he didn't want a last-minute wagon on Laser). Could be scum with Rajam. I don't see yeeting here though. His play is solid.



Malakandra
Points in his favor: #677 (frustration of not having any options), his reaction in #683, his genuineness in #728, objectively considering the Frozen case in #849 (he's not responding in a way as if he knows Frozen's alignment, ie no distancing), his reaction to Exlight in #916 (not the type of response you'd have while your scumbud Frozen's wagon is gaining traction. You would want for things to be spicy). This is further supported by #940. #1798 looks good, not taking advantage of the Chaco wagon and instead pushing Rajam in #1799. This is his most town indicative post: #1471 (admitting to switching to Frozen because of the Laser vote).

Points against him: #1592 and #1603 are actually pretty weird. As is this. Pushing me on Day 1 for playing hyperactive. Resisted switching from me to Frozen. Rushed to execute Rajam today. My chain of posts beginning in #2283: echoed my coordination comment, went back and forth on yeeting Rajam D2, hyperconfident reads on me and Rajam, connections with both Chaco and Rajam, Voted Frozen when he preferred yeeting me.

Conclusion: Very very good scum.



Rajam
Points against him: Obsession with the night kill and illogical conclusion, calling out Chaco in #1001 when Chaco had called out himself, Jack's desire to quick yeet Raxxel when Raxxel had barely contributed, unreasonable ExLight/Z25 night kill theory, connections to Chaco and Malakandra.

Conclusion: scum.

My vote remains on Malakandra.

Mala/Raj > Chaco wins it.

 

[Rajam]

Both Chaco and Zen are forgetting that Laser's vote on frozen wasn't really that needed because in this game we don't need majority to lynch:

"4.5.1 If the hammer is not met before the end of the day phase, then the player with the most votes is lynched."

 

[ExLight]

Both Chaco and Zen are forgetting that Laser's vote on frozen wasn't really that needed because in this game we don't need majority to lynch:

"4.5.1 If the hammer is not met before the end of the day phase, then the player with the most votes is lynched."

Laser votes made it so the other wagons couldn't tie, so it was pretty important there.
Whatever came after is just fluff.

 

[Malakandra]

give me another one if you think there's a traitor around

if you think Rajam Chaco is scum then why are they above me and Z25?
and who would you put in the scum team if Rajam flips town? your entire list is at least townleans

I'm not a big fan of pre flip analysis.

If Rajam flips town I need to do some heavy re reading, and I highly doubt there is a traitor around.

 

[Malakandra]

also it took me way to long to figure out how to turn the stupid strikethrough function off to put Chaco down lol. I ended up just writing his name down below then copy pasting it in.

 

[Darkpit54]

Just read through Triss' iso, and there was a lot less of substance than I remembered.

Basically two and a half pages, with a lot of talking about things outside of the game. Which I appreciate, as it keeps the mood light, but this post reads interestingly lol:

12. LaserGuy
Only two pages of posts since signup thread (compared to five or more on most others), and some of those are likes. Could use more posting.
Lots of extraneous language.

I'm not sure I want to push this right now, but I think if we're wrongly townreading anyone rn, it's Triss. She's kinda coasting by. Wagonomics on Frozen help her a lot, but Frozen was advocating for bussing, and if Triss is scum I would argue that it worked lol.

8. Darkpit54
Been generally helpful and is mirroring a lot of my general impressions.

9. Raxxel / Malakandra
Same as Darkpit.

12. LaserGuy
Not been here often, similar to Darkpit and Malak though somehow.

I feel like comparing people to me and calling it a read is like a meme at this point lol

You mean like quick end the phase?

No, that’s a terrible idea. We haven’t been unified and just blindly voting a target is not about to help us.

I’d rather hear your thoughts on Chaco though. You didn’t seem fond of them, so how is Rajam worse?

Obviously this isn't Triss, but I'd been confused on Z's slot for a while and really liked this post

 

[Darkpit54]

I still think I prefer a Raj yeet today though

 

[Malakandra]

Xivii, I think you need to take a step back here. Almost all your points against me in your not believably townsliped post relate to yourself, where as almost all of your points for me relate to others. Just read how many times you say me in the points against vs the points for. I get that yes I tunneled on you very hard day 1, I apologize for that. I hope you can take a step back and come around to the fact that I'm town, and we should be working together on this. I need your help on figuring out who the next scum is after Rajam. I'm leaning towards Chaco right now. Why do you feel Laserguy could be scum with Rajam? Is it just that he hasn't "townslipped" and doesn't work with me, or is there anything leading you to make that connection?

 

[Xivii]

Yes that's correct.

 

[Xivii]

Yes that's correct.

 

[Chaco]

Xivii What points against me am I not addressing? Fairly certain I’ve responded to everything. And the only reason I keep mentioning the parts with you any further is it seemingly always gets brought up as scum points, in which I readdress ad nauseum. Somehow I managed to accumulate all your scum points from that play So if there is anything I need to address, tell me. I notoriously skim while

If by some chance Rajam is scum, which I’ve still yet to see a case supporting that which is good. It’s all nitpicking and honestly your points on other players are more damning?

Rajam Thats actually a really good point and promotes bussing even further.

REMINDER:
I will NOT be here from tomorrow afternoon until probably mid day Saturday, with a heavy potential of being furiously hungover.

 

[Chaco]

Mala how come you defend me in some posts and then paint me as scum in seemingly the same breath?

 

[Xivii]

I'm ok with ending the day when everyone else is. Don't end without Laser's go ahead though.

 

[Malakandra]

Mala how come you defend me in some posts and then paint me as scum in seemingly the same breath?

Because I'm not confident about you. When I notice townie things or pushes that I don't think make sense I put my opinion in, when I notice a connection between a player I think is scum, and another player that I'm townleaning I take note of it.

 

[Malakandra]

Xivii are you saying yes thats correct to the last part of my post, or something else

 

[Chaco]

So I’m guessing the mass is on Rajam then?

Can someone, anyone make a concise list of why Rajam is scum? I see Xivii’s list I just don’t see those as strong tells really, it would be more as supporting reasons of a greater fiasco. But just analyzing NK and the like, I don’t see as inherently scum painting. I would venture more to the aspect of replacement timing and then the one point I did like if Xivii’s was about Rajam being the first posts D2 and not having even read the game at all yet and weighing in on my tunneling and such, and NSG. That’s a looser point, but weighs more than the others I think.

 

[Chaco]

Because I'm not confident about you. When I notice townie things or pushes that I don't think make sense I put my opinion in, when I notice a connection between a player I think is scum, and another player that I'm townleaning I take note of it.

Understandable. But I think everyone connecting me to Rajam is kindve wack though cause I keep literally asking for a case on him that makes sense and I don’t seem to get much if an answer. And like yourself was wanting him to be able to catch up.

 

[Chaco]

Points to Xivii though for actually putting points against Rajam rather than blind wagoning like err body else

 

[Chaco]

Also Darkpit54 mirrored sentiments on Trisscar.

 

[Xivii]

Xivii are you saying yes thats correct to the last part of my post, or something else

Yes this part:

Why do you feel Laserguy could be scum with Rajam? Is it just that he hasn't "townslipped" and doesn't work with me

Chaco it's also that everyone else has reasons for being town.

 

[Rajam]

I literally pushed for Laser's lynch during the end of D1 and for a decent chunk of D2, and they the same and kept forcing scumreads on me
I'm actually surprised you're even trying to make this team a theory

Let's lynch Laser and remove any shadow of doubt

 

[Rajam]

But the post you quoted he was stating he was wrong. So your intent doesn't line up.

? If he said he was wrong, and then I tell him he was wrong, how does that not line up? It just reinforces the point

 

[Rajam]

>chaco hammers Rajam
>rajam: that chaco guy is townier than me

if this isn't weird as **** to yall idk what game you're playing

y so reachy? Do I have to scumread everyone who wants me dead?

 

[Xivii]

? If he said he was wrong, and then I tell him he was wrong, how does that not line up? It just reinforces the point

There is no value. It is fluff. Will you vote for Malakandra for self preservation?

 

[Chaco]

Xivii So, literally it’s just PoE? I mean I understand narrowing with PoE but to base a Lynch off of it alone doesn’t bode well with me. What bothers me about the Lynch for Rajam is that there’s no opposing view really. I’ve spoken out that it’s lacking in actual case and Mala did early on first Rajam push. Moving forward I haven’t seen that. It’s like Ex just fell in, Triss, DP... and I see all these potential pairings with his slot, but I’ve yet to see a legitimate reason as to any of them.

So you’re telling me that a scum lynch isn’t gonna have any opposition? Makes sense why everyone is pairing me with him on those grounds cause I’m the only one really speaking out against an uninformed Lynch. I just don’t see the seriousness of about to be in LYLO if we are wrong.

It bothers me greatly that Triss has posted more about outside things than the game toDay. I wanna reinforce this. DPs new look into Triss is also interesting.