Midnight Ops Mafia: Game Thread. Game Over!

[Chaco]

Not sure what to make of Triss v Jack on D1. Jack seems more genuine.

 

[Rajam]

There is no value. It is fluff. Will you vote for Malakandra for self preservation?

No. We're wasting time looking in that direction. Was just reading your #2150 seconds ago, and I actually thought about stepping in to defend Malakandra but I decided last moment to just drop it and let Mala defend himself. tbh Zen I think you give too much credit to meta

 

[Darkpit54]

I seriously doubt Chaco is scum with Raj. If he was, he wouldn't be defending him so blatantly, right?

As for a Raj yeet:

1. Frozen had somewhat strange interactions with this slot. He pushed Jack a little, but it was so soft I feel like it could be distancing more easily than a true push, as he seemed to actually be pushing for a Somi yeet
2. That first post was weird, as was all subsequent NK discussion. Only scum that didn't get the NK they wanted would claim about hitting town's strongest pr was a bad kill.
3. Jack just looked really, really scummy

Otoh, his recent posts have actually looked better.

Chaco If not Raj, who do you think is the play toDay?

 

[Xivii]

Xivii Xivii So, literally it’s just PoE? I mean I understand narrowing with PoE but to base a Lynch off of it alone doesn’t bode well with me.

I don't see how finding town through their behavior is any less viable than finding scum through their behavior. Skilled scum rarely slip. At most you'll get 1-3 scum slips from a skilled player throughout a game. When you have a strong town, it's more efficient to determine who scum is by determining who town is.

 

[Xivii]

I seriously doubt Chaco is scum with Raj. If he was, he wouldn't be defending him so blatantly, right?

Yes he doesn't have a choice at this point.

 

[Rajam]

trisscar is one of those slots that's plain disheartening because, no matter what I do and how much effort I put in, she's just deaf ears and has been tunneling me from the Jackito era. I still think she's town but her tunneling is super antitown, and if I get lynched she'll arrive into D4 with 0 idea what to do

So trisscar, you'll need to reread the whole thread and write down some notes 'cause memory is fragile. And then, post all those impressions during D4 so town knows where's your head at. If you fail at doing this you'll only become a hindrance 'cause scum will pursue you, and with reason.

I fully expect you to get to work if I get lynched toDay.

 

[Chaco]

Yes he doesn't have a choice at this point.

I definitely do. You always seem to skip my motive, Xiv, and apply what you think I’m doing. Scum wouldn’t play as I have, and you’ve said that yourself. I’ve been a huge townread in your eyes and then scummy. You can’t place me because you want my posts to be scummy when they’re just genuine concerns from me. I see your struggle, but I feel you in it.

Darkpit54 Im still processing. I’ve been running through a lot of ISOs. Triss is interesting to me. Z25 seems he could be skilled scum. But I’m still looking for something to jump off the page at me.

 

[Rajam]

Zen, remind me to address your #1336 but only after ExLight addresses my latest posts (#1356 & #1358)

 

[Chaco]

Darkpit54 Look at Jack V Triss, and tell your thoughts.

 

[Z25]

Triss is definitely someone to look at next if Rajam flips town because most of their content is coasting or hell even recent content has been mostly unrelated to the game.

That’s something that concerns me a little tbh.

 

[Rajam]

trisscar. Prepare for what's to come. Your free pass has ended. Either now or toMorrow, your choice, but no more of what little you've done so far. Prepare for worse case scenario, because I'll flip town, oh yes I will. And you're going to need to be accountable. You'll have to answer for your crimes. And the burden... oh the burden of having to reread 60 pages...




























I'm dead serious, if you lynch me and don't reread and take notes from the whole game then you're scum.













































...unless of course you lynch Laser with me <3 in which case you still town and wont really need to reread anything

 

[Rajam]

Triss is definitely someone to look at next if Rajam flips town because most of their content is coasting or hell even recent content has been mostly unrelated to the game.

That’s something that concerns me a little tbh.

Z I get u, the decision is tough...

 

[Darkpit54]

I may be inactive most of tomorrow, but I'll try to catch up tomorrow night.

Chaco I'll have to reread, but I seem to remember it feeling weird at the time. I'll look back and let you know what I think tomorrow

 

[Z25]

Z I get u, the decision is tough...

View attachment 278835View attachment 278835

The context of this is even funnier knowing the exact episode this comes from and the next scene lol

 

[Trisscar]

I feel like comparing people to me and calling it a read is like a meme at this point lol

See now you've got me tempted to make a png of it as well, darn you.

REMINDER:
I will NOT be here from tomorrow afternoon until probably mid day Saturday, with a heavy potential of being furiously hungover.

Have fun!

Not sure what to make of Triss v Jack on D1. Jack seems more genuine.

Lel, which part are you looking at.

Yes he doesn't have a choice at this point.

^This. If no traitor, then scum has two people left and there's still 7 town around. Even with a traitor, if Rajam is full scum then they have one "life" left if Rajam is yeeted. Carrying a game potentially on your own is stressful.

I fully expect you to get to work if I get lynched toDay.

Mmmmmorly.

Also your last two posts and the behavior they display is why I'm voting you Rajam, at least in part.

 

[Xivii]

Vote: Rajam

Whenever you're ready Laser

 

[LaserGuy]

LaserGuy how often do you watch films? And when you do, what type do you typically watch? When is the last time, if ever, that a film/book/show/plat/etc. has made you cry?

Now that Mala has responded, can you give me a clue what you were hoping to find here? I'm very curious

I feel like Xiivi's analysis on Mala is partially omgus because of their D1 tunneling and I find z25 patting that opportunistic

Which parts seem like OMGUS to you? Why do you think Xivii would care about someone tunneling them in D1?

I know I'm more confident this game, and thats the reason why I made the nice cleanup line. I truly believed we had the thing mostly figured out, we had our town core, our PoE, and our most likely suspects. Everything in that article Fonti (I think it was Fonti) linked me last game on better town play. However, I'm not sure where you get the read that I'm so confident I buss both my scummates in the first two days on my first scum game.

Did you read the article about power wolfing as well?

Alright, so hypothetically you haven't retracted your climb and you get nightkilled that night instead of Fonti. You flip not chocolate, you saw the reaction when you retracted it and had reasoning, now imagine that but without you to give your reasoning. That shakes everything up, people start to question why you would do that, if you had some big plan, and a whole bunch of other confusion that distracts from the game actually progressing forward.

I'm not sure this could cause a lot of confusion, actually. I mean, we'd have the flip so we would know the right answer even if we didn't understand it. If anything Xivii were to flip VT in this scenario we'd probably be saying he was brilliant for tricking scum into shooting him instead of a PR.

Z25
He stated that if Frozen flipped town, we should look into me before Frozen was executed. His read list he posted at the beginning of D2 looked like he genuinely rearranged it after the flips.

Conclusion: I'm inclined to believe in the underlined town slip more than his suspicious behavior.

Can you explain why you are so confident in the underlined being a towntell?

Malakandra

Conclusion: Very very good scum.

I've been mulling over your case and Malakandra's replies for awhile now and I am still not certain of where I stand. Looking back, I think the thing that stands out most for me that the vote on Frozen as a possible scumtell. There's a lot of other stuff that could plausibly be explained by Town + newbie weirdness even though Mala doesn't particularly read like a newbie to me. If Malakandra is scum they are playing an impressively tight game. I would definitely be more confident in Rajam today and looking hard at Malakandra tomorrow informed by Rajam's flip.

I'm assuming your preference for Malakandra is essentially due to this? Rajam looks fairly obvscum but Mala might be too slippery if we don't get them quickly?

Mala/Raj > Chaco wins it.

This feels right to me.

I'm ok with ending the day when everyone else is. Don't end without Laser's go ahead though.

Yes, I think I'm fine with ending the day if that's what people want.

Xivii So, literally it’s just PoE? I mean I understand narrowing with PoE but to base a Lynch off of it alone doesn’t bode well with me. What bothers me about the Lynch for Rajam is that there’s no opposing view really. I’ve spoken out that it’s lacking in actual case and Mala did early on first Rajam push. Moving forward I haven’t seen that. It’s like Ex just fell in, Triss, DP... and I see all these potential pairings with his slot, but I’ve yet to see a legitimate reason as to any of them.

So you’re telling me that a scum lynch isn’t gonna have any opposition? Makes sense why everyone is pairing me with him on those grounds cause I’m the only one really speaking out against an uninformed Lynch. I just don’t see the seriousness of about to be in LYLO if we are wrong.

It bothers me greatly that Triss has posted more about outside things than the game toDay. I wanna reinforce this. DPs new look into Triss is also interesting.

 

[Xivii]

Now that Mala has responded, can you give me a clue what you were hoping to find here? I'm very curious

I wanted to see how closely the format of his response would resemble yours. Since he couldn't know what I was looking for with such an absurd question, I think scum!him would have been inclined to model his response off of a townie.

Can you explain why you are so confident in the underlined being a towntell?

It shows that he wasn't aware of what Frozen would flip. He was writing up a scum read on me and would have kept it had Frozen flipped town, but Frozen flipping scum caused him to reformat his read. Based on the way his read list is formatted, I believe he truly did reformat it.

I'm assuming your preference for Malakandra is essentially due to this? Rajam looks fairly obvscum but Mala might be too slippery if we don't get them quickly?

This is correct. Also because there is no resistance to Rajam, which means there's not a whole lot we can get from the wagon in terms of information even if he is scum.

 

[LaserGuy]

Xivii So, literally it’s just PoE? I mean I understand narrowing with PoE but to base a Lynch off of it alone doesn’t bode well with me. What bothers me about the Lynch for Rajam is that there’s no opposing view really. I’ve spoken out that it’s lacking in actual case and Mala did early on first Rajam push. Moving forward I haven’t seen that. It’s like Ex just fell in, Triss, DP... and I see all these potential pairings with his slot, but I’ve yet to see a legitimate reason as to any of them.

So you’re telling me that a scum lynch isn’t gonna have any opposition? Makes sense why everyone is pairing me with him on those grounds cause I’m the only one really speaking out against an uninformed Lynch. I just don’t see the seriousness of about to be in LYLO if we are wrong.

It bothers me greatly that Triss has posted more about outside things than the game toDay. I wanna reinforce this. DPs new look into Triss is also interesting.

Oops, forgot about this quote.

Why don't you feel there has been a case of Rajam? Xivii just posted a large case on him earlier today. fonti put out several arguments for him such as #1472 and #1485. And yes, lots of people have found ways to strongly clear themselves as Town this game, so the PoE pool is very small and the threshold for being cleared is higher for those of us (myself included) who remain in the PoE.

 

[Xivii]

Honestly, the inclination to yeet Chaco has been building over this last page. The dismissal of the points on Rajam, liking Jack's posts. It just doesn't seem reasonable.

 

[Xivii]

You mean kindve like Xivii’s WoT with little actual reasoning?

If BoomFrog is scum, then so is Xivii.

And I agree his I’m so town look at me is borderline AtE or just more antics. But I think it’s funny how quickly NSG voted BoomFrog after Xivii’s case, and BoomFrog and Xivii are on “opposite” ends now.

This really comes off as legitimate tinfoil. Knowing Booms and NSG's alignments, it's hard to imagine scum!Chaco forging this speculation. The middle line comes from someone who just convinced themself of the point they've been mulling around.

 

[ExLight]

For those scumreading Laser
Do you think he's the traitor (if we have one)?

Because if he isn't the traitor I don't see why scum would bus FF instead of him back in D1.

Which parts seem like OMGUS to you? Why do you think Xivii would care about someone tunneling them in D1?

All of it, kinda. And yea.

Zen, remind me to address your #1336 but only after ExLight addresses my latest posts (#1356 & #1358)

I'm assuming you mean 2356 and 2358

Let's lynch Laser and remove any shadow of doubt

hi no, even if he's scum he's probably traitor and I'd rather lynch main mafia which is somewhere between you/chaco/z25
or on whoever doesn't claim mason but those ****ers are stalling and refusing to do so

y so reachy? Do I have to scumread everyone who wants me dead?

No, but holding a bit of grudge against the person that hammers is probably the usual when the one lynched is town.

 

[Chaco]

Omg Xivii it’s like I’ll bring something forward and you choose to change pace and find another reason to try and paint me scummy. You’re tunneling so hard now.

LaserGuy Because the points against you are just as bad as the ones against Rajam, and you’re telling me you wouldn’t say there’s no case on you? Just because it suits your agenda doesn’t mean it’s right. This push is based off of his beginning of day post and PoE essentially. The other post was geared more towards Z25 and Boom, and ONCE AGAIN PoE for Rajam being scum. If you’re gonna try and resurrect Fonti’s reads, bounce them off of Booms and see who fits. The answer would be Z25.

 

[Chaco]

Trisscar Basically the fact that he identified early that your slot is off, and then here we are into D3 and you’ve posted more about outside game events than in game. Your positioning on FFs wagon has been your free pass, but it’s starting to look like that was just scum coached by FF.

 

[Trisscar]

"
Chaco said:

Not sure what to make of Triss v Jack on D1. Jack seems more genuine.

Lel, which part are you looking at."

"Basically the fact that he identified early that your slot is off, and then here we are into D3 and you’ve posted more about outside game events than in game. Your positioning on FFs wagon has been your free pass, but it’s starting to look like that was just scum coached by FF."

....*head tilt* One of these things is not about the other .... XD

 

[Chaco]

How is that not about the same thing? He called early D1 that your feel is not the same as it has been elsewhere, looking back you have little contribution which falls into line with what Jack said. Completely linear.

 

[Chaco]

Why do you have Triss as town core? I'm really not feeling her as town, I was last game but they feel so different to me here, which is why my vote is still there even though it was RVS.

Why are you trying to force Fonti to give her reads, you have never done this in any other game I played with you. Also last time I saw you do a readlist last game in Wisp's read game you did not do it the way he wanted. Imo you feel like that you are trying to look more town then normal by doing things that people should townread.

You do realise how easily a style change of this vast when you have never rolled scum, can lead to issues right. Its not only Fonti though you want everyone to give a readlist which is very unlike your other games. Yet I don't remember you doing one could be wrong on this though

I did not see Triss as aggressive at all last game, and if they were it was self defensive not pushy, I also don't feel she is mech heavy at all that is my part of my issue with the slot so interested how you see her so differently.

You need to understand I don't have the mental energy to deep dive this game just yet, and so using a useful tool is what I am going to do when the difference is so big to me, Xivii and you both telling me not to do this means I am going to keep doing it more. I got burned last game for letting others talk me out of stuff not happening again. If it leads to me dying because of negative attention so be it. I was wrong on Logic but that was a one off and still stand by it.

That is also not a real list since you lack any real scum lean and just gave commentary on others, if Fonti did this would you be happy? I can't really judge since I don't plan to or want to one today but so be it.

Noticing forward progression: ever since this back and forth and the call out about your play, you’ve backseated hard. The only initiative driven call out I’ve seen was about Ex and the drunk posting.

I feel like your lack of presence is really due to comfortability in town limelight due to your position on FFs lynch. Your reads are hardly memorable because they no depth really. You just more come in and place your vote the way you see wagons developing.

With FF bus as a separate topic, if he thought he was gonna go down, he would 100% tell you to jump on early.

 

[Chaco]

@ Everyone:

How do we feel about a mass claim before deciding and ending the day? Masons don’t claim which role they are so there’s a chance scum get caught, unless of course they still have Ninja shots. It’s very risky, but I feel like a claim helps us here. I’m pretty sure the NK target would be fairly obvious at this point, so I don’t see the reasoning to avoid it to the next day if we get to LYLO and the claim can cause a mess then.

I understand that most will not be cool with this, but it truthfully can do a lot of good for us toDay.

 

[Chaco]

Cause we will see what doesn’t add up.

 

[ExLight]

we should've mass claimed at the start of the day so we could work with a smaller pool and see who kept attacking the masons
ùmú

claiming too late like at EoD is a bad idea because counterclaim shenanigans can prolly happen and we could end up lynching a mason by accident

 

[Darkpit54]

I think we should do it. If there are counterclaims and we yeet a mason because of it, that means both scum have outed themselves so we have a pretty clear game plan moving forward lol

 

[Trisscar]

Actually? I usually go off topic in the middle of conversations, especially long ones. It's easy to keep track in text, I like hearing about people's lives outside of the game, and it helps to keep the game itself light and fun instead of an argument-fest.

Also Jack has played like.... two or three other games with me I think? In at least one of those my play was already drastically different than the other two, so I feel like their view of my behavior now is mildly skewed.

Also I'mma agree with Xivii here, for a few reasons. Bussing without some kind of mechanic that causes it to confuse town further (or play to that effect) seems counterproductive when mafia has smaller numbers already, and lays quite a bit of responsibility on fewer players. Also it sounds terrible to do as a teammate without any other choice, would much rather shoot for a full team clear than a sacrificial distraction.

 

[Trisscar]

Also given that I was doing half the tables in Sumthing, this:

"I also don't feel she is mech heavy at all that is my part of my issue with the slot so interested how you see her so differently. "

Is very silly. XD

 

[ExLight]

I think we should do it. If there are counterclaims and we yeet a mason because of it, that means both scum have outed themselves so we have a pretty clear game plan moving forward lol

at the end of the day? nononono

scum would be able to take down three town, two of them townconfs, and losing only one
we wouldn't be able to spot two scum, as one scum could just claim they're masons with someone that isn't around at the time, no matter their alignment

if they still have a traitor that's like a pretty safe play for them

if we want to claim mason toDay we should do that asap so we can recheck the interactions we have so far

 

[Rajam]

Z25, my gut is telling me that you somehow might flip town, and that your scumness comes from your flawed logic which makes no sense and it's so easy to misinterpret. I mean, let's look at this:

Done, my bad I didn’t know it was close to hammer I thought Rajam was at 2.

I honestly think that makes a lot of sense. No scum at night would throw off game balance and would actually probably tip the scale in scums favor, if scum is forced to kill. A no kill because of an inactive team would mean no kill and a wasted night where town learns nothing. Then come into day 2 and bam, scum could cause way more confusion and throw everything off for the rest of game.

How tf can you analyze like this and arrive to these kind of conclusions

- If there are inactives guys who are replacing out at Night and there is no NKill, wouldn't Occam's razor indicate that those inactives were the scum team?

 

[ExLight]

- If there are inactives guys who are replacing out at Night and there is no NKill, wouldn't Occam's razor indicate that those inactives were the scum team?

I feel like it's way more likely an active team just forgot to decide on time rather than the entire scum team being composed of the inactive people

 

[Rajam]

I dont see any benefit in claiming toDay rather than toMorrow

If claims happen now, scum has a warranteed 50% - 50% chance of hitting tracker, and a 100% chance of hitting a publicly known town role. With no claims, there is less chance of hitting tracker, and scum might even nkill a question mark rather than confirmed known town role, which is what town needs and wants

If the lynch shifts away from me onto another player, like trisscar or Malakandra for example, we'll force more claims; we might force a mason to claim, in which case the lynch will be back onto me, and thus we end the Day in the exact same way as it is now, but with PRs outted.

I'm against claiming toDay

 

[Z25]

Z25, my gut is telling me that you somehow might flip town, and that your scumness comes from your flawed logic which makes no sense and it's so easy to misinterpret. I mean, let's look at this:



How tf can you analyze like this and arrive to these kind of conclusions

- If there are inactives guys who are replacing out at Night and there is no NKill, wouldn't Occam's razor indicate that those inactives were the scum team?

I may be thinking too much or too stupidly on that point, but I was saying, one scum could have just not been active at night. Inactive doesn’t mean they aren’t there always. It can mean they just briefly were not available. Like if Scum one was doing something at night and didn’t have time to make an action, I was saying scum two could have been jack because of that night switch in and the fact that he has been under active early game.

The first scum doesn’t have tK be an inactive but somehow who just wasn’t there atm and figured jack could have been to do the kill. Which may not have been the case.

Like I think that makes sense but again maybe I am being stupid and missing something.

 

[Trisscar]

I may be thinking too much or too stupidly on that point, but I was saying, one scum could have just not been active at night. Inactive doesn’t mean they aren’t there always. It can mean they just briefly were not available. Like if Scum one was doing something at night and didn’t have time to make an action, I was saying scum two could have been jack because of that night switch in and the fact that he has been under active early game.

The first scum doesn’t have tK be an inactive but somehow who just wasn’t there atm and figured jack could have been to do the kill. Which may not have been the case.

Like I think that makes sense but again maybe I am being stupid and missing something.

*blink* May I request to be reminded why this came up again?

 

[Rajam]

I do think Laser can be scum so I’d consider it. But I want to review his scum plays again.

So? lynch Laser? I mean there has to be scum in Laser vs you, and if you bus vote him, you'll definitely look much better