Midnight Ops Mafia: Game Thread. Game Over!

[ExLight]

So? lynch Laser? I mean there has to be scum in Laser vs you, and if you bus vote him, you'll definitely look much better

if you think he's scum why are you trying to convince him instead of the rest of the players voting you

 

[ExLight]

and why not push a z25 lynch instead

 

[Rajam]

and why not push a z25 lynch instead

You have seen me call Z25 scum in one post and then having doubts in the next post. Laser though, my confidence in his scumness is way higher. Nothing indicates me he is town. Nothing screams town. No 2nd guesses. At this point if we're not lynching me then I'll make sure we lynch scum toDay, otherwise I'll be a red herring toMorrow. If we're not lynching me, we're lynching Laser.

 

[Chaco]

Tell me where you guys need my vote cause I’m about to be gone in a bit

 

[Rajam]

Laser

I called 1st

 

[Rajam]

We’ve been over this but fine.

Laser immediately went to vote NSG.

Look at 14 and tell me how the hell that justified an actual scum read when NSG literally mentions he’s only played a couple times.

That’s not a town POV by Laser, it feels more like scum trying to get an easy day one bus.

Also wtf are you talking about I scum read laser for it in the same post?
509 doesn’t even mention laser.

Do I bring it up later yes, but under different circumstances. My point on the laser vote is the immediate voting of the NSG slot. You did not, you may he tried to push him but not until later.

But your looking from the wrong perspective.

If Laser is scum he was pushing a townie. That post I made mentions how’s scum zen would not do that and bus a teammate.

So if you have an issue with that it doesn’t add up.

Town Zen would push that as he wouldn’t be aware of NSG’s alignment. Scum Zen doesn’t not go after mates, he helps them out.

Town Laser could push NSG a newbie, but makes no sense to vote him right away when scum Laser focused on gimmicks to gain reactions previously and argued how he would still try that as town.

So why didn’t he here? Instead he immediately went after a very obviously new player. You could argue scum wouldn’t do that as it would look bad, but scum also do go for easy yeets day one because they can get away with it. So it could go either way. But that behavior felt more scummy to me then your actions. Thats why he got a scum lean from me early on.

Z25 vote Laseeeeeer

 

[Xivii]

Tell me where you guys need my vote cause I’m about to be gone in a bit

Rajam or mala. It's up to you.

 

[Xivii]

Actually, in keeping with my erratic and unpredictable behavior

Vote: Laser

 

[Xivii]

Laser, explain to me why the Z25 post is within his scumrange

And what you got from asking me about it again when you didn't want to talk about it until post game.

 

[Rajam]

Zen-during-D1 mode on:

Scum!Rajam wouldnt blatantly call solid-town 75% of the roster and run out of lynchable targets by midgame. Scum!Rajam plans things better and keeps the lynchpool wide open.

Zen-during-D1 mode off

 

[Xivii]

If you are scum all you need is 1 ml today though, you kill a mason, then counterclaim the other in lylo

 

[Xivii]

Masons you don't need to claim btw. Tell each other fun facts be about yourself and leave a crumb as to what the fun fact is in thread. This shouldn't break the cryptography rule, but verify with UP first.

 

[Xivii]

Ebwop: fun facts about

 

[Darkpit54]

Actually, in keeping with my erratic and unpredictable behavior

I'm pretty confident Xivii is town, but I think I'm done putting weight to what he does. The motivations elude me. I'm just gonna let him keep doing what he does lol

Still not sold that Mala is scum. I think Laser is more likely but I'm not quite convinced on that one either.

Masons you don't need to claim btw. Tell each other fun facts be about yourself and leave a crumb as to what the fun fact is in thread. This shouldn't break the cryptography rule, but verify with UP first.

UP said cryptography rule should be less strict for masons so this should hopefully be okay

Anyway I made something. Graphic design is my passion

 

[Rajam]

Masons you don't need to claim btw. Tell each other fun facts be about yourself and leave a crumb as to what the fun fact is in thread. This shouldn't break the cryptography rule, but verify with UP first.

Dont crumb anything lol, if scum cclaims masons, then real masons should be obvious upon a simple reread

 

[LaserGuy]

Laser, explain to me why the Z25 post is within his scumrange

Any post he makes is in principle within his scum range.

And what you got from asking me about it again when you didn't want to talk about it until post game.

I didn't want to talk about my opinion on it because my opinion is related to certain events that happened in SS that I don't really feel comfortable talking about. I assumed your opinion was related to something else so I wanted to see where you were coming from.

Vote: Rajam

 

[Xivii]

Dont crumb anything lol, if scum cclaims masons, then real masons should be obvious upon a simple reread

Nope they are to leave an untraceable crumb alluding to the fact they told their partner. Everyone else can pitch in as well to mask it.

 

[Xivii]

Any post he makes is in principle within his scum range.



I didn't want to talk about my opinion on it because my opinion is related to certain events that happened in SS that I don't really feel comfortable talking about. I assumed your opinion was related to something else so I wanted to see where you were coming from.

Vote: Rajam

You made a claim. I refuted it. The scum team, including Z, wasn't aware that tied votes end in a no execution. So Z25 legitimately thought he was yeeted. Do you or do you not agree with this. You've read the scum chat.

If you agree, then your assertion is baseless.

 

[Z25]

*blink* May I request to be reminded why this came up again?

If you mean originally, that post I made steamed from the discussion on how Rajam switched in at night when the others switched in at day, which led to the meta theory that that could mean something. My post was exploring possibilities there.

So? lynch Laser? I mean there has to be scum in Laser vs you, and if you bus vote him, you'll definitely look much better

This doesn't sound like a townie actually trying to lynch scum, your coming off as more a scum trying to push that last mislynch with your desperation over it and trying to convince me by appealing to my behavior. Which feels like basic manipulation of you trying to get a slot you know is town to look better.

But quite frankly I don't care how I'm being read. So if anything your slot is pinging more than Laser currently.

 

[Rajam]

Addressing Zen's #2236:

• His but no I'm not lurking statement page 1
  biggest reach. Lurking page 1, really?
  This isn't relevant to my point. My point isn't that he was lurking on page 1. My point is that he reacted to me joking about him lurking as if it were serious. Do you maintain this is a reach?
  I read this as the point was that he was lurking on page 1? I think this is a misunderstanding then
• Gunning for me when Fonti had laid out a solid case for why I was town and believing that Fonti could be cleared which would have essentially "cleared" me.
  When was this? Depending on timing you have to admit your claim caused a lot of paranoia, to say the least. Fonti laid out how as scum I couldn't have known if there was a Chocolate in the game or not at the time when I claimed. And since there were still people who had not yet posted, scum!me couldn't have know if I would have been counterclaimed. Despite this argument, Chaco pushed me as the play. Do you maintain that this is a reach?
  ok. I take back the 'reach' qualifier. I admit I was lazy in checking timings 'cause I didnt bother checking super-town Chaco and I still think it's legit paranoia.
• Promoting a no lynch
  If numbers make sense, why not? in the games I've played, the few times people propose No Lynch, those people have always been town
  Please layout how the numbers made sense.
  I actually didnt care checking the numbers. The point and question is: since when scum promotes No Lynches? It's just flat out dumb and never works because no one ever listens to that kind of requirements. Point is: idk how can you read this as scummy or alignment indicative at all
• Attempt to get PRs to claim NUMEROUS TIMES. I don't think we can ignore this any longer. On Day 1, he danced around trying to get the Neap to claim early. Today he advocated for masons claiming when it was completely unnecessary. And just now he tried to verify that I was VT.
  I don't think he pushed that hard. Was more on the tone 'I support claims' and that's it.
  He pushed for claiming on multiple occasions. And he essentially asked me if I were a VT. Even if you don't agree with this, how is it a reach?
• 'Reach' is the word I decided to use after seeing your 1st point which I read as 'Chaco was lurking page 1' and my reaction was 'gosh, here goes Zen again...'. Maybe I should've also included 'weak arguments' or something like that for these kind of points: scum doesn't rolefish by publicly asking: 'hey guys lets claim?', they're much more subtle when rolefishing. Also, tbh I dont remember at all when Chaco asked you if you were VT. Was it before or after your claims/unclaims? Anyways, Chaco asking for claims so 'openly' is something I dont find scummy at all.[/QUOTE]

 

[Xivii]

Rajam Chaco comes from a time where scum play more openly to their win condition by pushing for things that are anti-town. Other players that play in this manner as scum are KevinM and Frozenflame. Hell, I also open wolf as scum and push for things that are anti-town as if they are actually of benefit. To think that scum wouldn't push for no lynch and for claims openly simply isn't true.

 

[Xivii]

Vote: Rajam

Can you summarize why Rajam. Why not Z25 and why not Chaco? Who do you think the scumteam is? Do you think scum!Rajam would continue tunneling your slot as he if he were scum? What's his goal here?

 

[LaserGuy]

You made a claim. I refuted it. The scum team, including Z, wasn't aware that tied votes end in a no execution. So Z25 legitimately thought he was yeeted. Do you or do you not agree with this. You've read the scum chat.

There is some discussion on this topic on pages of SS. I posted an opinion there in spoiler that you can review if you want. I do not agree with your assessment of the situation, but I'm not going to get into this because I know that I am still tilted about that game and will end up making comments that I will regret later.

 

[Xivii]

Chaco here you say that you did not take my post 1 lurking comment seriously:

nah more tit for tat.

fair enough. I don’t exactly align with that, but like I said, how I feel overall with that heavily depends on the results of D1/N1

But here, in response to LaserGuy, you did:

And tbr I don’t that post was jest because he went through and looked at multiple peoples activities, so how do you see that as jest?

 

[Xivii]

LaserGuy Do you agree or disagree that he legitimately thought he was executed? That's all I want to know.

 

[Xivii]

I just reread the spoiler in sumting and it's not relevant to my point. I'm not asking about merits of pushing Z25 at the end of the day. I'm asking if you believe he used the moment to intentionally clear himself. This was your counter to my point that his "look at zen if frozen town" comment is too premeditated to be within his scumrange.

 

[LaserGuy]

Can you summarize why Rajam. Why not Z25 and why not Chaco? Who do you think the scumteam is? Do you think scum!Rajam would continue tunneling your slot as he if he were scum? What's his goal here?

z25 is in the 3DS slot and I think he is probably Town. I do not believe that z25 townslipped, but I do think it is unlikely that 3DS was mafia unless his buddies completely abandoned him basically from the start of the game. 3DS' play would fit as traitor but z25 has posted several things suggesting that he does not understand the mechanics of the role at all so I think he is probably not traitor.

I think both Chaco and Rajam are mafia and am fine with either one.

I am the only counterwagon to Rajam. He has no choice but to push me.

LaserGuy Do you agree or disagree that he legitimately thought he was executed? That's all I want to know.

Yes, I think he did. That doesn't actually change my assessment of him.

 

[LaserGuy]

Yes, I think he did. That doesn't actually change my assessment of him.

Let's go with this. z25's default play appears to always be from the position that he is Town. Even when he is mafia, even in a situation where he has no reason to hide his alignment, his natural inclination is to behave as though he is Town. I do not believe that what he did was premeditated, but I believe his mindset is such that his play will always have the appearance of being Town even when he is not.

 

[Chaco]

Chaco here you say that you did not take my post 1 lurking comment seriously:But here, in response to LaserGuy, you did:

Due to responses taking it seriously and that’s due to the reactions.

If you’re reaching back for inconsistency all the way back to D1 at least find something that can actually be used as scummy. You just continue to reach on me and allow others such as Laser to piggyback in.

 

[Chaco]

Vote: LaserGuy

And with that I’m out of here, see y’all at some point tomorrow!

 

[Chaco]

And if for some unknown reason you swing a wagon onto me while I’m gone:

Look heavily at Triss after day start claim. If they aren’t a PR, they’re likely scum due to playstyle. I’ve been holding that comment back, but with EoD coming and my return time uncertain, just covering all basis.

Look heavily at who tried to tie me to what spots and why. Sans Xivii cause he’s literally underneath the earth tunneling with me.

PoE VT claims cause there’s a set number and some won’t make sense, and scum will definitely fake claim there. Mason is way to risky.

Don’t allow people to coast town in endgame.

Z over Mala as scum.
Laser over Rajam, as of right now.

I feel like Triss v Jack is something important somehow. So look at it.

 

[Xivii]

Vote: LaserGuy

And with that I’m out of here, see y’all at some point tomorrow!

Have fun!

z25 is in the 3DS slot and I think he is probably Town. I do not believe that z25 townslipped, but I do think it is unlikely that 3DS was mafia unless his buddies completely abandoned him basically from the start of the game. 3DS' play would fit as traitor but z25 has posted several things suggesting that he does not understand the mechanics of the role at all so I think he is probably not traitor.

You had him as your second scum read here. And stated he could be mafia here:

But could be mafia.

 

[Xivii]

Let's go with this. z25's default play appears to always be from the position that he is Town. Even when he is mafia, even in a situation where he has no reason to hide his alignment, his natural inclination is to behave as though he is Town. I do not believe that what he did was premeditated, but I believe his mindset is such that his play will always have the appearance of being Town even when he is not.

I see your point, but posting from the perspective that you are town is different from posting from the perspective that someone else is town/scum. Z has multiple times this game posted as if he knew a person was going to flip town (NSG, Me, BoomFrog). That's not someone who is cognizant about maintaining a consistent scum perspective. Scum!Z would have too the opportunity to hard bus not make himself look bad by declaring suspicion of me. But I digress.

Vote: Malakandra

Edit: changed the word is to else

 

[Xivii]

Also *took. I really need to start proofreading.

 

[Malakandra]

Did you read the article about power wolfing as well?

I did, doubt there are any as the first yeet was on scum, which I don't think was a powerwolf thing IIRC.

I'm not sure this could cause a lot of confusion, actually. I mean, we'd have the flip so we would know the right answer even if we didn't understand it. If anything Xivii were to flip VT in this scenario we'd probably be saying he was brilliant for tricking scum into shooting him instead of a PR.

I'd be confused for sure, but I guess your point about already knowing the flip makes sense. I do still think its better he outed it when he did than if he would of kept keeping it secret still.

How do we feel about a mass claim before deciding and ending the day? Masons don’t claim which role they are so there’s a chance scum get caught, unless of course they still have Ninja shots. It’s very risky, but I feel like a claim helps us here. I’m pretty sure the NK target would be fairly obvious at this point, so I don’t see the reasoning to avoid it to the next day if we get to LYLO and the claim can cause a mess then.

Also against claiming at the end of today. Thats something that should happen at a start, or if are about to yeet a power role they should claim.

 

[Malakandra]

[4] Rajam: Malakandra, Trisscar, ExLight, Laser
[2] Laserguy: Rajam, Chaco
[1] Malakandra: Xivii

Should be the current votecount

 

[Malakandra]

Also *took. I really need to start proofreading.

proofreading is a scumtell.

 

[Malakandra]

Also given that I was doing half the tables in Sumthing, this:

"I also don't feel she is mech heavy at all that is my part of my issue with the slot so interested how you see her so differently. "

Is very silly. XD

IIRC the quote was in reference to how Jackrito felt you were not mech heavy this game, while I felt you were. I then linked posts of you being mech heavy this game.

 

[Z25]

Just a heads up my internet is basically gone right now. Took five minutes to load this and I don’t even know if it will post but if it does I should hopefully be back something tomorrow afternoon when they come to fix it. Unless I get lucky and it’s back sooner.

 

[Chaco]

Literally last time checking in, seeing if vote needs to be moved or adjusted. I’ll check in a few to see, after that I’m forreal gone cause we have people walking in now.