Midnight Ops Mafia: Game Thread. Game Over!

[Z25]

Ok my internets back, hopefully it stays that way.

 

[Trisscar]

IIRC the quote was in reference to how Jackrito felt you were not mech heavy this game, while I felt you were. I then linked posts of you being mech heavy this game.

Ohhh, ok. I may have been very distracted recently, so thankee for the reminder. XD

 

[Xivii]

Everyone should think of a fun fact and post the topic in their next post. Mine is The Egg.

 

[Darkpit54]

Everyone should think of a fun fact and post the topic in their next post. Mine is The Egg.

Something about mirrors

 

[LaserGuy]

Something about unicorns.

 

[Xivii]

Laser what do you think of the points I've made in favor of Chaco:

Chaco
Points in his favor: his #522 and #1244 seem genuine. I don't think scum!Chaco disassociates me with the Boom yeet knowing Boom is going to flip town #1945. He also associated me with BoomFrog numerous times early Day 1. I don't think this aligns with a scum agenda, knowing that one of us is just going to flip town which would force him to have to reevaluate his read on the other. Asking me about my read of BoomFrog in #66 seemed like he was genuinely investigating the association.

Points against him: Seeking claims since D1/rolefishing, pushed me over Frozen, pushed Boom over Rajam (only pertinent if Rajam flips scum), isn't addressing the core arguments against him, rather keeps moving the conversation to how he reacted to me.

Conclusion: If one of Malakandra and Rajam are town, I'm confident that yeeting here would end the game.

This really comes off as legitimate tinfoil. Knowing Booms and NSG's alignments, it's hard to imagine scum!Chaco forging this speculation. The middle line comes from someone who just convinced themself of the point they've been mulling around.

 

[LaserGuy]

I don't really find the arguments about the associations that compelling, actually. I think you're looking at this too much from how you operate as a power wolf, where you are planning your mislynches two day phases ahead and are working towards those objectives. This IMHO isn't how a lot of scum operate. Rather, a majority of scum players I've observed tend to go with the flow and don't necessarily plan as far ahead as you do--or at all--and thus, may not be as sensitive to how changing those associations may affect them in the long run. Chaco in particular does not strike me as not a long-term planning type of player, so I can envision a lot of circumstances where he doesn't worry about this or would rather pocket some townie credit for being wrong instead.

As far as a Town case for Chaco is concerned, the points that jump out to me mostly are:
-Tone. I usually associate the shoot-from-the-hip IDGAF tone that Chaco has with Town.
-#2065-2075 where he claims VT and his comments to the effect that he feels doing so kind of clears him feels genuine. It's really wrong mechanically but this is the kind of argument I would be somewhat surprised to see scum advance because it would be very obviously wrong from scum point of view. This IMHO the closest thing to a Towntell I've seen from Chaco.
-I agree with Rajam that Chaco's kind of angle-shooty #2203 also feels townie.
-His thought process and his way of evaluating also give a townie impression.

 

[Xivii]

Malakandra is just scum here. Vote with me y'all. Z25, Laser, Chaco you're all online. C'mon let's unite.

 

[Xivii]

That post where mala paints me vs Chaco as tvt near the end of d2 is scum informed.

 

[Chaco]

I’m on but drunk. So withholding any real posting rn.

random fact? Something about e46 BMWs.

 

[Xivii]

Laser that #2065-#2075 virtually makes Chaco an IC. I don't see how you could have been sitting on that and still have him as a part of your solve?

I'm also interested in your response to the discrepancy in your Z25 read.

 

[Xivii]

Chaco please vote Mala with me. It's the only correct play today.

 

[Xivii]

Xivii Xivii How far does your rule for bussing extend? Would you not vote for a teammate at all? Or just not actually lynch them?

What was the purpose of this question?

UtopianPoyzin request extension to Monday since we've already had 2 weekend deadlines, and that doesn't work for everyone. For example if we swing the execution to laser at the last minute, he won't be online to defend himself.

 

[Xivii]

Rajams play the past couple of days doesn't make sense as scum. Laser being so deadset on that yeet doesn't feel right. I'd expect town!laser to be vote hopping as I am, which is typical of his townie trying to figure things out play.

 

[Rajam]

This is valid. I think town Raj pretty much clears you and possibly Ex. I think the next turn after town Raj is probably Laser, possibly Z. Definitely willing to look at other slots though. The Frozen push is interesting, as I only remembered his push on Somi/Ex. That's definitely possibly good to keep in mind

Why town!me clears ExLight? I dont want that to be a thing

 

[Xivii]

Why town!me clears ExLight? I dont want that to be a thing

Vote for Mala plz

 

[Chaco]

Lemme look at it

 

[ExLight]

Malakandra is just scum here. Vote with me y'all. Z25, Laser, Chaco you're all online. C'mon let's unite.

would scum!mala be tunneling you hard D1 and D2 to the point of rereading multiple of your games to see if your playstyle was coeherent and ignoring people saying that you being choco had a high chance of being a mechanical clear though

and iirc he progressively got more open to listening to the reasoning clearing you over time

I feel like that's something I'd expect from paranoid town rather than scum but I might need some meta to work with properly and I've been townreading them for a while now because of that

 

[ExLight]

this game just feels weird at this point, this reminds me of when I was spectating Jumanji Mafia after dying and I feel like the two remaining scum might be just hard distancing now to get townpants if some**** happens but maybe still trying to push a mislynch today

sorry I haven't been around much and I'll give the entire day a more careful read to see if anyone gets my attention

 

[Darkpit54]

Why town!me clears ExLight? I dont want that to be a thing

I'd have to look back, but iirc he was defending you pretty hard d2. Ig scum could do that, but idk why they would.

Anyway, day ends in like eight hours and I kinda have no idea what to do

 

[Z25]

Vote for Mala plz

Do you still believe in a Rajam mate?

If so why not go for them first? You seemed pretty sure earlier that Mala was only scum with Rajam but maybe I got the wrong impression there.

 

[Rajam]

Notes so far on Laser guy, am going to sleep now. Will continue from where I left off tomorrow.

in 55 hops on Chaco fast,then in 137 drops it switching from a vote to a town lean. What recent posts did you like more Laser?

in 131, shows a good reaction IMO and starts his trust of Xivii.

137 gains a townlean on Somi and elaborates why in 150. Not the strongest reasoning, possible Laser Ex connection.

309, drops townlean on Somi, sighting their posts being heavy info over analysis, doubt the connection.

331 explains switch on Somi well.

425 I feel his scum and town reads were incredibly accurate to what the game developed into, Sus on Jack and Somi. I doubt a Laser and Rajam team from this post.

So far posts are lining up with my impression of Laser. No real strong connections on anyone, I think Laser flipping scum means that Exlight is probably town here so far, as well with their vote on Laser.

Possible scum ping is the first part, awaiting explanation for that quick switch without a push on Chaco in between at all from him.

Town ping for progression. Starts of with a mainly meta reason and states gut, but drops it and explains why well.

The town ping for progession is on the Somi parts.

Malakandra, what about Laser's reads on other players? Is your town read on Laser based only on the somi progression?

Also:

Laser's reads are subject to his wagon analysis, instead of the other way around. It's too black & white. It's an excuse to lack a deeper analysis of intentions

^ what do you think of this?

 

[Darkpit54]

^ what do you think of this?

Something interesting about Laser's wagon analysis is that, as he's shown his much weight he puts into vote placement, if he were scum I think he would have known that where he landed on the previous wagons didn't look great, and probably would've voted differently. Scum this hyper-aware of how people interpret wagons likely wouldn't have just "k. Vote frozen"'d at the end of the day and been much earlier on a Boomfrog yeet that they knew was wrong, right?

 

[Rajam]

This doesn't make sense to me. You think Triss is a PR. The only PRs we have left are masons (except possibly hopefully not a gamethrowing chocolate Town). Why does it matter whether they have a presence or not?

I expect all town players to play at their best, regardless of whether they're PR or not. Town PRs not playing at their best to avoid NKills is a policy I'll never advocate for.

 

[Malakandra]

Something about an eel.

 

[Chaco]

Rajams thoughts on Triss is a town perspective.

 

[Chaco]

Why Mala and not Z25 who Boom said to go after?

 

[Chaco]

I see some scummy things in Mala slot that I’ve disliked personally, but overall it’s been a fairly solid slot.

 

[Malakandra]

Malakandra, what about Laser's reads on other players? Is your town read on Laser based only on the somi progression?

Thats one of my note pages on Laser, heres the continuation. My town lean on Laser is based on him being consistent with with his reasoning and his reads, and the lack of scumbuddies. I'm looking into some of his recent posts right now.

^ what do you think of this?

I personally like wagon analysis, it helped me a lot at the end of last game. I'm not sure if Laser does this often, as the only game I've played with him before he died night 1. It seems like he'd be the type of player to do wagon analysis and fit his reads in with it.

However, I do have to thank you for pointing the wagon analysis back so I went to reread it. I found something interesting.

Mala and Rajam are unlikely buddies here.

LaserGuy why do you say Rajam and I are unlikely buddies, then respond to Xivii saying: "Mala/Raj > Chaco wins it" with this feels right?

 

[Rajam]

Something interesting about Laser's wagon analysis is that, as he's shown his much weight he puts into vote placement, if he were scum I think he would have known that where he landed on the previous wagons didn't look great, and probably would've voted differently. Scum this hyper-aware of how people interpret wagons likely wouldn't have just "k. Vote frozen"'d at the end of the day and been much earlier on a Boomfrog yeet that they knew was wrong, right?

You think his votes were bad, flip-wise talking? Look at the final D1 & D2 votecounts:

Final Vote Count


[7] #HBC | FrozenFlame: Fontisian, Darkpit54, Trisscar, Xivii, LaserGuy, Malakandra, Z25
[3] LaserGuy: NonSpecificGuy, Jackrito, ExLight
[2] Xivii: BoomFrog, Chaco
[1] ExLight: #HBC | FrozenFlame

Not voting: Nobody

#HBC | FrozenFlame has been lynched. They were:

Spoiler

the Odd-Night Roleblocker

Flavor

It is now Night 1. Please refrain from posting in this thread until D2, which will begin on July 7th at 8 PM EST​

No more posting.

Day 2 Final Votecount

BoomFrog [6] - Z25, fontisian, Chaco, DarkPit54, Rajam, Xivii
Chaco [3] - ExLight, Trisscar, LaserGuy
Rajam [1] - Malakandra

Not Voting [1] - BoomFrog

Spoiler: Day 2 Vote Log

Rajam > Boomfrog #987
Xivii > Exlight #1003
ExLight > Chaco #1012
Malakandra > Exlight #1057
Trisscar > Exlight #1076
Xivii > Rajam #1119
fontisian > Rajam #1130
LaserGuy > Rajam #1131
Malakandra > Rajam #1141
Rajam > BoomFrog #1204
DarkPit54 > Rajam #1234
fontisian > Unvote #1241
Xivii > Malakandra #1301
Rajam > Z25 #1311
Chaco > BoomFrog #1381
LaserGuy > Boomfrog #1390
Z25 > Boomfrog #1395
Xivii > Rajam #1404
Xivii > Unvote #1439
DarkPit54 > Exlight #1441
Xivii > Exlight #1442
Xivii > BoomFrog #1442
Xivii > BoomFrog #1453
Malakandra > Exlight #1456
Malakandra > Unvote #1471
Xivii > Rajam #1543
DarkPit54 > Unvote #1562
BoomFrog > Rajam #1587
Z25 > Xivii #1598
Malakandra > Rajam #1603
Z25 > Unvote #1635
ERROR IN VOTECOUNT 1650
fontisian > Rajam #1655
DarkPit54 > Rajam #1668
Chaco > Rajam #1669 HAMMER*
Chaco > Unvote #1678
Xivii > Unvote #1727
Xivii > BoomFrog #1735
Xivii > Chaco #1741
Trisscar > Chaco #1759
Z25 > BoomFrog #1764
LaserGuy > Chaco #1784
Xivii > BoomFrog #1794
fontisian > BoomFrog #1801
Chaco > BoomFrog #1833
BoomFrog > Unvote #1837
DarkPit54 > BoomFrog #1850
Xivii > Unvote #1866
Rajam > BoomFrog #1867
Xivii > BoomFrog #1870 HAMMER

There was an error in votecount 2.04 #1650 which misrepresented the game state.
As a result Chaco's vote in #1669 will not be counted. We apologize for this error.

Boomfrog has been lynched, please hold.

- voting against frozen at D1's end
- not voting against BoomFrog at D2's end

I agree with the premise that scum voting incorrectly wouldn't stick his nose with a VCA, but that premise is incorrect in this case

Also, this part:

Scum this hyper-aware of how people interpret wagons likely wouldn't have just "k. Vote frozen"'d at the end of the day and been much earlier on a Boomfrog yeet that they knew was wrong, right?

Laser didn't weight that much content and intentions in his VCA, it was composed mostly of timing and position analysis. And that's one of reasons I'm calling him scum because it's just too black & white. You have to ponder intentions, and Laser was avoiding going too deep in that regard.

 

[Rajam]

LaserGuy why do you say Rajam and I are unlikely buddies, then respond to Xivii saying: "Mala/Raj > Chaco wins it" with this feels right?

If I'm reading this right, Mala/Raj > Chaco means either Mala or Raj, but not both, and then go for Chaco

Let me change the question for Laser though: If you think/thought Chaco is either Mala's scum partner, or my scum partner, why not go for Chaco in first place, if he's scum in both scenarios?

 

[Trisscar]

Probably about to fall over atm cause sleep schedule makes no sense.
So.
I'm unwilling to move off Rajam for behavioral, logical, and slipping out of it yesterday reasons.
Unless UP grants that extension request I thought I saw earlier, I'mma say that Rajam is the vote today.
Irregardless, good luck to you all.

 

[ExLight]

- voting against frozen at D1's end
- not voting against BoomFrog at D2's end

Laser's vote literally made it so the other two wagons couldn't be tied to Frozen's
we already mentioned that

 

[ExLight]

Scum is likely to be at the end or outside of another scumwagon
and likely to be at the very start or middle of a town wagon

Chaco and Z25 both fit these and I'll keep pointing and screaming at that
and yikes since when is :glare a real emote here smh

 

[Xivii]

It seems like he'd be the type of player to do wagon analysis and fit his reads in with it.

Guys read this. This is fabricated. Mala is stupendous, but he's scum.

 

[Malakandra]

If I'm reading this right, Mala/Raj > Chaco means either Mala or Raj, but not both, and then go for Chaco

Let me change the question for Laser though: If you think/thought Chaco is either Mala's scum partner, or my scum partner, why not go for Chaco in first place, if he's scum in both scenarios?

ah ok. I took it as Mala and Raj and if one is wrong then Chaco, probably cuz it was a quote from Xivii and he was pushing Raj and I together.

 

[Xivii]

I'm unwilling to move off Rajam for behavioral, logical, and slipping out of it yesterday reasons.

If you do happen to come back online before the deadline, could you outline these? I'm actually not quite sure what Rajam has really done.

 

[Xivii]

Scum is likely to be at the end or outside of another scumwagon
and likely to be at the very start or middle of a town wagon

Chaco and Z25 both fit these and I'll keep pointing and screaming at that
and yikes since when is :glare a real emote here smh

Mala fits this as well.

 

[Xivii]

Do you still believe in a Rajam mate?

If so why not go for them first? You seemed pretty sure earlier that Mala was only scum with Rajam but maybe I got the wrong impression there.

That was the case before, but I realize to the extent that Mala is playing, I shouldn't have excluded a Laser & Mala team from Mala's play. I think Mala is strong enough to play in a way that anti-distances his scummate.

 

[Xivii]

would scum!mala be tunneling you hard D1 and D2 to the point of rereading multiple of your games to see if your playstyle was coeherent and ignoring people saying that you being choco had a high chance of being a mechanical clear though

and iirc he progressively got more open to listening to the reasoning clearing you over time

I feel like that's something I'd expect from paranoid town rather than scum but I might need some meta to work with properly and I've been townreading them for a while now because of that

Mala was only on me D1. They weren't tunneling me. They only voted me when Fonti made the Frozen case and that started to pick up. Then he went back and forth pretending to be confused about the mechanics so that he didn't have to switch over to Frozen.