Midnight Ops Mafia: Game Thread. Game Over!

[Xivii]

Malakandra/Chaco. If I'm wrong about one of them, I'd probably look at z25 next.

Why Mala over Z25? Can you lay out the argument for why the points against him are greater than the points for him?

secondly, Pit is back in the PoE if he isn’t a mason, which what I was thinking some people were implying

Where did you get the impression that people were implying that he was mason?

 

[Xivii]

Also ExLight you had pit outside the poe due to his and triss' position on the frozen wagon, so why would not being mason nullify that?

 

[Xivii]

Z25 Z25 Can you talk about the inconsistency between this and #2640.

Has your read on Z25 developed from his response to this?

I'm VT. Xivii is fine unless someone is gamethrowing.

Did you think someone gamethrowing was a legitimate possibility when you made this post?

 

[ExLight]

Also ExLight you had pit outside the poe due to his and triss' position on the frozen wagon, so why would not being mason nullify that?

he gained town points with me for that, but that's pretty different from being cleared from the PoE
Obviously priorities are a thing and I'd rather go after Z25 or Chaco based on the wagonomics, but that doesn't mean Pit is town incarnated

I assumed you were hinting him to be a mason when everyone kept saying he was "obvious town" which is why I always placed him slightly above Trisscar, but without that he's town-null at best tbh

 

[ExLight]

erh *null-town at best

 

[Z25]

Z25 why aren't you scumhunting

We need all townies to vote together today. That doesn't work out with everyone doing their own thing, so it's best we play follow the clear in the end.

For this very reason. Everything is all over the place today. there’s no clear way to go where my views will make everyone come together. We need to all evaluate slots and weights which needs the lynch more. My strongest read is still laser. I’m second guessing everyone else tbh. I really need another scum flip because frozen’s isn’t helping me and the townies that flipped for the most part had pretty solid reasons to think they were scum.

 

[Chaco]

well
if we had gone for you and Z25 instead of Rajam and Boom like I’ve been yeeting since D2 we wouldn’t have two now confirmed town dead yeet

and yes, I’m tunneling but so far nothing has happened to change my mind

and I’m willing to go after Z25 before you, we recheck your interactions after that if he flip scum

sorry if my head isn’t in the game tho, I’m having some pretty bad days lately and I’m kinda busy with two other large games

I mean the fact I’m town, you’d be in the same position, sans a Z25 Lynch. So yeah, still would be same boat.

and understood in the bottom.

Yeah please do though because I don’t want you wasting time tunneling me when you are here, you feel me? I promise you I wouldn’t blast you everyday about it if I was scum man. lol.

 

[Z25]

However ExLight LaserGuy

I’m moving furniture around today so I won’t be here today again as much, but

Who looks scummiest on the Rajam Wagon? Who looks best?

 

[Chaco]

I think Laser wagon hunting here is suss, he claims my position on Xivii AGAIN toDay, which is a null issue at this point. I didn’t feel something was right, it wasn’t, watch interactions between Xivii and I. If it feels anything other than TvT to you, you need to reread, then reread again.

Xivii would be pushing on me toDay if I was priority due to my heavy interaction with his slot. He probably has the clearest read on me from anyone.

Moving forward:

Laser and then Z25, going from there.

Any other pushes, I need to see legitimate cases brought forward.

Xivii, sell me on Malakandra. What I saw D3 wasn’t that selling, not in comparison to Laser. Z25 is a favorite from Boom and Fonti reads as well. En masse cleared town points there, but my preference is Laser.

Complete absence from frozen wagon, nitpicking and fluffing up cases, feigning townie activity by wagonomics but bringing nothing forward.

 

[Chaco]

It’s Laser/Z or Laser/Mala. Don’t see Mala/Z. Laser is common denominator.

 

[Malakandra]

LaserGuy can you respond to my 2690?

EDIT: Changed post number to the right post. Was previously 2696

EDIT 2: Apparently when changing the number to the right post I changed the link to the wrong post. Today just isn't my day I guess lol. Fixed now.

 

[Darkpit54]

but that doesn't mean Pit is town incarnated

Excuse you I'm a literal angel

Who looks scummiest on the Rajam Wagon? Who looks best?

I think it's difficult to examine the Raj wagon due to the fact that nearly everyone was on it at some point, but I'll look in a second

 

[Xivii]

For this very reason. Everything is all over the place today. there’s no clear way to go where my views will make everyone come together. We need to all evaluate slots and weights which needs the lynch more. My strongest read is still laser. I’m second guessing everyone else tbh. I really need another scum flip because frozen’s isn’t helping me and the townies that flipped for the most part had pretty solid reasons to think they were scum.

Not scumhunting because you don't know who scum is doesn't make sense. You scumhunt to find figure out who scum is. Can you lay out why Laser is scum in bullet point form?

 

[Xivii]

Complete absence from frozen wagon, nitpicking and fluffing up cases, feigning townie activity by wagonomics but bringing nothing forward.

Are these your points against Laser? Laser was on the Frozen wagon.

 

[Xivii]

Mala are you sure the edit has the correct link? I don't see the post you want Laser to respond to.

 

[Malakandra]

Mala are you sure the edit has the correct link? I don't see the post you want Laser to respond to.

Apparently I changed it to the wrong link when fixing the number..... I think this re reading is frying my brain. Gonna take a break for a bit. Thanks for letting me know, it should be fixed now.

 

[Xivii]

It’s Laser/Z or Laser/Mala. Don’t see Mala/Z. Laser is common denominator.

Why don't you see Mala/Z?

 

[Chaco]

Are these your points against Laser? Laser was on the Frozen wagon.

Laser was not on Frozen wagon at end of day 1. He pushed him slightly beforehand and let it go before Fonti’s push.

 

[Chaco]

Why don't you see Mala/Z?

I just don’t see them as likely from slot viewpoints. I mean it’s possible but I just don’t see the connection currently.

Those 3 are Lynch pool though

 

[Z25]

Not scumhunting because you don't know who scum is doesn't make sense. You scumhunt to find figure out who scum is. Can you lay out why Laser is scum in bullet point form?

Well I didn’t mean that, I was saying I don’t know what step to approach atm as outside of Laser I’m struggling to nail down a strong mate choice.

But my problems:

-that NSG vote and whole situation still does not look good and I don’t see townie Laser feeling that confident to lynch a new player like that. It looks even worse when we learned NSG was a pr.

-His pushes feel forced or pocketing. Like how his main reason to support a boom lynch was he trusted you. Despite your back and forth with your behavior. You could argue he just thought you were truly town, but it’s pretty hard for there to not be doubt on a a lot that early on. But if he was scum then this would make sense as he would be backing the biggest townie in the game(you). Then him trying to push Chaco after Triss dropped it, feels opportunistic as there was little merit for that push like discussed imo. It looks bad when you consider he pushed boom because of similar reasoning.

-582 is his reads list. Which granted is early on. But he had Chaco as top town before he would later try to get rid of that slot. From a slot he saw looking at all angles, Chaco really didn’t change that mindset. So why would their read change that much later for them to try and lead a push? I find it equally interesting how he called NSG’s push in him poor when his wasn’t any better. The jack read he has also doesn’t feel like he actually tried. It’s littered with him questioning most of what he posted about the shot.

Overall his slot feels less like it’s actively developing reads and more trying to be opportunistic of other players who are seen as town, pocketing their views and trying to ride off of them. It doesn’t feel town to me.

 

[Xivii]

Laser was not on Frozen wagon at end of day 1. He pushed him slightly beforehand and let it go before Fonti’s push.

No? That was boomfrog.

 

[Xivii]

I just don’t see them as likely from slot viewpoints. I mean it’s possible but I just don’t see the connection currently.

Those 3 are Lynch pool though

What is the difference in terms of slot viewpoints between mala/Z25 and Laser/Z or Laser/Mala?

In other words, what are the characteristics of the latter two combinations that aren't present in Mala/Z25?

 

[LaserGuy]

we need to figure out if there’s a traitor around first and -Lo would point towards that

Vote: Z25

I am a bit confused as to why you immediately voted if you weren't sure whether or not it was LYLO.

You on the other hand brought up points that were not strong, and began the push post Triss moving.

I've been pushing you since D2, before Triss became interested in you at all IIRC.

Has your read on Z25 developed from his response to this?

I don't think z25's reasoning is particularly correct here on either you or on I, but I feel like he is being genuine in his reads here. I'd give him a townie point for it, but I don't think it changes his relative position in my rankings at this point.

Did you think someone gamethrowing was a legitimate possibility when you made this post?

Very unlikely.

Who looks scummiest on the Rajam Wagon? Who looks best?

I don't really think that there's a lot of information that can be drawn from this wagon. Both wagon the wagon and the counterwagon are Town and Rajam was likely going to be lynched regardless.

Laser was not on Frozen wagon at end of day 1. He pushed him slightly beforehand and let it go before Fonti’s push.

????

[7] #HBC | FrozenFlame: Fontisian, Darkpit54, Trisscar, Xivii, LaserGuy, Malakandra, z25
[3] LaserGuy: NonSpecificGuy, Rajam,ExLight
[2] Xivii: BoomFrog, Chaco
[1] ExLight: #HBC | FrozenFlame

I think you are thinking of BoomFrog. I was leaning Town on Frozen up until fonti's push but voted for him in the scramble.

Why Mala over Z25? Can you lay out the argument for why the points against him are greater than the points for him?

What gives you the impression that I preferred your wagon? I remember voting because I didn't want you to get yeeted.


I mean, I've been on Rajam, and I guess you can count Xivii since he's pretty much confirmed town. But saying an awful lot of wagons that have flipped town is just not true and hypocritical since you've been on both Boom and Rajam at points.

Noting these, but will come back to it later today as I've run out of time for right now.

 

[Darkpit54]

Alright, to make sure it goes that way then. I don't think Xivii is going to pick up at all, and I'd like to avoid a jump onto Laser here.

Vote Frozen Flame

This post reads really weird from the perspective of Mala being scum with Laser. I think this is very clearly something he would do as scum with Laser, and the thought process behind it, but he probably wouldn't state this so blatantly if so, right?

 

[Chaco]

God I literally have messed up names this entire game. My b! Like holy crap I may get them right before endgame.

 

[Chaco]

Not a play (in order of general strength of town read):
10. BoomFrog - probably seeing the most concerted effort coming from this slot relative to everyone else, really feels like he's scumhunting and in a careful and deliberate way
3. Trisscar - on first read this slot was very meh to me but upon re-read idk why but this slot just feels like a towny trying to have a good time if that makes sense? def more of a gut read
8. Darkpit54 - posts just don't set of scum alarm bells for me at all, and the content seems mostly on point so its a solid townlean
11. Xivii/6. Chaco - these two probably second on effort only to boom, they're the primary discussion drivers so far and to give xiivi credit where credit is due among his many self proclaimed virtues, flowing discussion is in fact inherently pro town and scum definitely have less motive to keep the pot stirred generally speaking. Also frankly these are veteran players that I have the most familiarity with out of the cast and I know at a base level neither are endgame liabilities so keeping them around isn't risky right now

Meh:
2. Jackrito - slot comes off like a slightly worse darkpit to me for some reason, nothing really notable as far as getting a town read but also nothing that pings scummy for me thus far
4. Fontisian - probably having the hardest time reading this slot, I feel like font isn't sharing everything he's really thinking but I can't quite figure out of thats out of fear or meant as a wait and see strategy
12. LaserGuy - slot feels like it's kind of been on the defensive for awhile but then never pivoted into trying to be affirmatively town if that makes sense? Xiivi came out of the gates swinging and nothing about the defense seemed suss but the slot doesn't stick out in my mind much more than "had a cool take on my playstyle and wasn't rattled under xiivi pressure"

Can be the play:

1. 3DSNinja - actively not playing because he think's it'll get him night- *checks notes* oh uhm, lynched I guess? It's a lame self-fulfilling prophecy at this point, this slot just showing signs of being a liability
7. Somitomi - slots posts come off as very reactive instead of proactive and like they're meant to satiate players paying the slot attention in the hopes that they'll stop and let the slot just fade into the background, self preservationist vibe
9. Raxxel - Has this slot done anything?
13. NonSpecificGuy - Has this slot done anything?

Alright so this is a lot more telling now that we have more flips. I wanna say the entirety of the top is town. Basically we know that, Frozen was playing to town by appeasing town. We saw that. Pocketing etc.

Now that leaves the active lynch pool we have: Z, Mala, Laser.

NOTE though, exact sentiment on Raxx as NSG? Do you think he’d leave a scum mate out like that?

I wanna PoE Mala here, and narrow to Laser and Z.

Consistent prods on Somi were noted before. So if for some reason one of them isn’t, it’s Ex.

FINALLY CAN DERIVE SOME INFO FROM HIM

 

[Chaco]

Xivii Darkpit54 Malakandra Thoughts for the above?

 

[Z25]

Alright so this is a lot more telling now that we have more flips. I wanna say the entirety of the top is town. Basically we know that, Frozen was playing to town by appeasing town. We saw that. Pocketing etc.

Now that leaves the active lynch pool we have: Z, Mala, Laser.

NOTE though, exact sentiment on Raxx as NSG? Do you think he’d leave a scum mate out like that?

I wanna PoE Mala here, and narrow to Laser and Z.

Consistent prods on Somi were noted before. So if for some reason one of them isn’t, it’s Ex.

FINALLY CAN DERIVE SOME INFO FROM HIM

I could see Frozen put their mate there if it’s Rax. Frozen is a good player according to people here, I imagine they could have had a plan to build Rax as a natural to town read progression with little suspicion on them.

So it’s worth thinking about.

 

[Xivii]

Chaco may I have your response to this:

What is the difference in terms of slot viewpoints between mala/Z25 and Laser/Z or Laser/Mala?

In other words, what are the characteristics of the latter two combinations that aren't present in Mala/Z25?

I'd like specific details on why a Maka/Z25 partnership doesn't fit the same way as a Mala/Laser or Laser/Z25 partnership.

Complete absence from frozen wagon, nitpicking and fluffing up cases, feigning townie activity by wagonomics but bringing nothing forward.

Additionally, what posts are you referring to as nitpicking and fluffing up?

NOTE though, exact sentiment on Raxx as NSG? Do you think he’d leave a scum mate out like that?

Certainly. As Fonti mentioned, it's a way to equate a scum players play with a town player's play.

 

[Xivii]

Then him trying to push Chaco after Triss dropped it, feels opportunistic as there was little merit for that push like discussed imo. It looks bad when you consider he pushed boom because of similar reasoning.

What are you referring to here?

 

[Darkpit54]

Xivii Darkpit54 Malakandra Thoughts for the above?

I think it's really interesting. I don't think agree that Mala can be removed from PoE due to it, but I think it shows that we can look at his intentions definitely being to distance himself from his scummates, and use that to analyze his other interactions before his yeet

 

[ExLight]

I am a bit confused as to why you immediately voted if you weren't sure whether or not it was LYLO.

I’m just that sure he’s scum

 

[Xivii]

I thought that the most like scum team was Rajam/Chaco. Barring that, I liked Xivii's case on you and thought there was a decent chance you could be mafia, if not necessarily with Rajam.

If Rajam flipped scum, would that have indicated that Mala was more likely to be scum or less likely?

 

[Chaco]

Chaco may I have your response to this:I'd like specific details on why a Maka/Z25 partnership doesn't fit the same way as a Mala/Laser or Laser/Z25 partnership.

Additionally, what posts are you referring to as nitpicking and fluffing up?

Certainly. As Fonti mentioned, it's a way to equate a scum players play with a town player's play.

I can’t give you exact reasons on that, more so gut feel. I don’t remember specifically any TvT or what I would construe as SvS either. They’ve interacted but nothing that I would associate as mates. I can look back, but it’s more gut to me.

And his points on me, theyre very minuscule and he’s gaslighting they up to appear as significant. I guess I see it more clearly because I know my alignment. T it’s pretty easy to tell from my posts my alignment, I feel. So to me it feels like he thinks he can gather enough momentum to force a ML, no ones read drastically changes that much with a consistent okay style and push without legitimate scum slip or tell. You follow me? Probably not gonna see it in the exact light I do, but I read people best when they try and analyze my play.

 

[Xivii]

I can’t give you exact reasons on that, more so gut feel. I don’t remember specifically any TvT or what I would construe as SvS either. They’ve interacted but nothing that I would associate as mates. I can look back, but it’s more gut to me.

You say you can't see anything that associates them as mates but what associations do you have with Laser/Mala and Laser/Z?

 

[Chaco]

Primarily PoE. Laser fits between the two better. I can read back and pull forward if you like. May just not be this evening though.

I probably will anyways, but as I said, I’m a gut player. I backed off of Laser yesterDay because I knew it wasn’t progressing, and I was doubting my reads. But with Rajam flip, and identifying Triss playstyle as PR or scum, in becoming more confident in them. But with that being said, I’ll look back to support that. Just give me time to support it. I’m sure it’s there.

 

[ExLight]

The fact everyone seems to be willing for a Laser instead of it being a 50/50 kinda should point out that he isn’t today’s play

 

[ExLight]

I’ll probably give the entire game a careful reread since this is likely the final shot.

In the meanwhile I’d be fine with already asking an extension because I also have to play other games AND study for a calc III test coming on the 24th

Vote: Extension

 

[Xivii]

I’ll probably give the entire game a careful reread since this is likely the final shot.

In the meanwhile I’d be fine with already asking an extension because I also have to play other games AND study for a calc III test coming on the 24th

Vote: Extension

If it's the final shot, then you voting for a player loses the game so you should unvote. It only takes 4 to hammer.

 

[Xivii]

I'll be V/LA for a week starting Monday with no access to the internet, so we should figure this out by the weekend.