Midnight Ops Mafia: Game Thread. Game Over!

[Xivii]

Vote: Malakandra

 

[Z25]

I'm VT. Xivii is fine unless someone is gamethrowing.



I don't see it as that strong of a Towntell. It gave me a townie impression, but Chaco was under a lot of pressure at the time and #2072 in particular gave me the vibe that this could be premeditated.



I've been going back and forth on z25 for awhile. I'm balancing the fact that there's a lot about the slot that I don't care for with the fact that I'm reasonably confident that 3DS should not have behaved as he did if he had buddies. z25 is probably only mafia if Malakandra also is at this point... I think everyone else surviving was pretty active in the early stages of D1 and probably would have tried to help 3DS out.



Partly it was to make sure I understood your meta correctly. Part of it was I wanted to try to figure out if z25 understood your meta correctly in #2223, which is a very strange post that even on reread I still don't quite understand what he was driving at.



I thought that the most like scum team was Rajam/Chaco. Barring that, I liked Xivii's case on you and thought there was a decent chance you could be mafia, if not necessarily with Rajam.




For future reference, I wouldn't have had a problem with you doing this. You don't need to bend over backward to accommodate me.



Z25 Can you talk about the inconsistency between this and #2640.



I guess you are due for a reread now. I was sure you had mason slipped in D2.





I'm not sure there's a lot of benefit to scum!z25 trying to throw shade at Xivii if scum wasn't planning on counterclaiming. I'm also assuming that means we are not in a traitor scenario.



What am I mirroring? I'm not sure what this means.



Z25 , would like an answer to this.

I’ve touched on both of these previously.

the first being that Zen asked if I was playing to my scum meta. I said no. That’s not related to my meta as a whole so there is no discrepancy.

As for your slot. I stated how I found it interesting how you debated with my previously that you would use a gimmick as town as well but you haven’t here. Your vote on NSG right at the start also didn’t sit right with me when his noob behavior was obviously and would have been very quick to see if you looked at previous games he was in like you seemed to be researching other slots. That just felt like a bad and non townie motivated start to me.

 

[Xivii]

I've been going back and forth on z25 for awhile. I'm balancing the fact that there's a lot about the slot that I don't care for with the fact that I'm reasonably confident that 3DS should not have behaved as he did if he had buddies. z25 is probably only mafia if Malakandra also is at this point... I think everyone else surviving was pretty active in the early stages of D1 and probably would have tried to help 3DS out.

You had him as potential mafia at the start of the Day though. You sorted Ninja D1. How is it that your read on ninja changed your read on Z25?

 

[Xivii]

the first being that Zen asked if I was playing to my scum meta. I said no. That’s not related to my meta as a whole so there is no discrepancy.

I asked if you were deliberately playing against your scum meta.

 

[Xivii]

LaserGuy where did you feel DP mason slipped?

 

[Malakandra]

Xivii is there a reason why you don't have a no visit for tracking Chaco?

 

[Xivii]

Yea, triss was killed

 

[Malakandra]

oh

 

[LaserGuy]

Wagon analysis

D3:

Spoiler

[5] Rajam: Malakandra, Trisscar, ExLight, LaserGuy, Xivii
[2] Laserguy: Rajam, Chaco
[1] Malakandra: Darkpit54

Not voting: Z25

Spoiler

Final wagon

[6] BoomFrog: Z25, Fontisian, Chaco, Darkpit54, Rajam, Xivii
[3] Chaco: ExLight, Trisscar, LaserGuy
[1] Rajam: Malakandra

Not voting: BoomFrog


This is the reconstructed Chaco/Rajam wagons on page 45ish. There's no VC nearby so hopefully I got everyone's votes correct.

[1] BoomFrog: Z25
[4] Chaco: ExLight, Xivii, Trisscar, LaserGuy
[5] Rajam: BoomFrog, Malakandra, fonti, Dark, Chaco
[1] Z25: Rajam


This is the wagon I reconstructed at the time of the accidental hammer.

[2] BoomFrog: LaserGuy, Z25
[1] Chaco: ExLight
[6] Rajam: BoomFrog, Malakandra, Xivii, fonti, Dark, Chaco
[1] ExLight: Trisscar
[1] Z25: Rajam

Early Rajam wagon from 1219

[4] Rajam: Xivii, Fonti, Laser, Mala
[1] ExLight: Trisscar
[1] Chaco: ExLight
[1] Boomfrog: Rajam

Not voting: Z25, Fontisian, Dark, Chaco

D1 wagons

Spoiler

Earlier VCs quoted in 1043
[3] BoomFrog: Xivii, Fontisian, LaserGuy
[2] LaserGuy: NonSpecificGuy, Rajam
[2] Xivii: BoomFrog, Chaco
[1] Somitomi: #HBC | FrozenFlame

Not voting: Z25, Trisscar, Darkpit54, Exlight, Malakandra

[4] FrozenFlame: Fonti, DarkPit, Triss, Xivii
[3] Xivii: BoomFrog, Chaco, Malakandra
[1] BoomFrog: LaserGuy
[2] LaserGuy: NonSpecificGuy, Rajam
[1] Exlight: #HBC | FrozenFlame

[7] #HBC | FrozenFlame: Fontisian, Darkpit54, Trisscar, Xivii, LaserGuy, Malakandra, z25
[3] LaserGuy: NonSpecificGuy, Rajam,ExLight
[2] Xivii: BoomFrog, Chaco
[1] ExLight: #HBC | FrozenFlame

Looking at the wagons again, it seems very likely that at least one scum must have been bussing Frozen in D1. Most likely candidates are Malakandra whose vote, as Xivii pointed out last phase, did not seem well motivated considering that they preferred both my wagon and Xivii's. z25's vote was a super late hammer which IMHO isn't strongly telling. I've seen scum do this when it's clear a lynch is inevitable and I've seen Town do this as well. Darkpit was on the wagon early and IIRC was around until very late in the day. I think if he's scum here even if he got on the wagon early there was plenty of opportunity for him to move elsewhere and try to save the lynch (e.g. the previous wagon). Will confirm on reread but I still think Dark looks fine based on this. Chaco's position on Xivii here still looks bad, especially if Malakandra is also mafia. I'm sure there's some intermediate wagons that I've missed, but Malakandra has managed to be on an awful lot of wagons that have flipped Town.

Have to review the interactions between Malakandra and Chaco. Chaco didn't seem to care for the Rajam wagon #1669 but was more than happy to run it up regardless.

 

[Malakandra]

Most likely candidates are Malakandra whose vote, as Xivii pointed out last phase, did not seem well motivated considering that they preferred both my wagon and Xivii's

What gives you the impression that I preferred your wagon? I remember voting because I didn't want you to get yeeted.

but Malakandra has managed to be on an awful lot of wagons that have flipped Town.

I mean, I've been on Rajam, and I guess you can count Xivii since he's pretty much confirmed town. But saying an awful lot of wagons that have flipped town is just not true and hypocritical since you've been on both Boom and Rajam at points.

 

[LaserGuy]

As for your slot. I stated how I found it interesting how you debated with my previously that you would use a gimmick as town as well but you haven’t here. Your vote on NSG right at the start also didn’t sit right with me when his noob behavior was obviously and would have been very quick to see if you looked at previous games he was in like you seemed to be researching other slots. That just felt like a bad and non townie motivated start to me.

You just saw me play a game as Town (SS) and I didn't gimmick there. I even discussed early in the game with Jackrito as to why I didn't.

You had him as potential mafia at the start of the Day though. You sorted Ninja D1. How is it that your read on ninja changed your read on Z25?

I keep getting confused and thinking z25 was somitomi and Exlight was 3DS.

where did you feel DP mason slipped?

I will find the post when I do my reread of him later, but essentially Darkpit started asking what people thought about doing a mass claim that came across to me with a very "The masons are divided on this and want to see what Town thinks" point of view. There were one or two other posts that seemed suggestive of it as well.

 

[Xivii]

Malakandra
What direction are you looking now? Who do you think is the most likey scum team?
Do you agree with my reasons for ExLight being town?
What do you think of the discrepancy in LaserGuy's Z25 read?

LaserGuy
Who is the scum team?
Who did you anticipate the night kill would be?
Who would you have tracked last night if you were the tracker?
Why didn't you post after the day ended D3?
What was the purpose of understanding if Z25 understood my meta? Would my response have affected your read depending on how I answered? If so, how so?

Chaco
Why did you drop your LaserGuy push?
Who did you think was likely to be scummates with Triss?
Why did you out Triss as a possible PR D3?
Why did you vote Rajam if you didn't want to yeet him?
Why didn't you join me in yeeting Mala?
Who do you think the scumteam is?

 

[Malakandra]

What direction are you looking now? Who do you think is the most likey scum team?

The most likey scum team is darkpit and darkpit. Seriously, the guy likes everything.

No clue. I've been wrong on almost everything I've been confident. I'm lost. Currently re-reading through the game, I'll get back to you later on this. Trying to re-read without any prejudice as when I re-read last game I was prejudiced and it screwed me.

Do you agree with my reasons for ExLight being town?

I think so. I've read the ones you mentioned in my re read so far. They do look pure and from an uninformed perspective, and I'm inclined to trust you that Exlight isn't that type of player that could fake these. Judgement will be given after my re read.

What do you think of the discrepancy in LaserGuy's Z25 read?

Not to this yet in my re-read. I'll definitely get back to it. Laser's consistency was one of my main reasons for town leaning him after reading through all his posts earlier.

 

[Xivii]

Mala who would you have tracked last night if you were tracker?

 

[Xivii]

Also how likely did you think my mason claim was true D3?

 

[Malakandra]

Mala who would you have tracked last night if you were tracker?

Chaco.

Also how likely did you think my mason claim was true D3?

I thought it was crap. I assumed you were bluffing to try to draw the night kill away from actual masons. Especially when you said what you did about tracking me.

 

[Z25]

I asked if you were deliberately playing against your scum meta.

Oh, my mistake then, I had read that differently. Still while what you mentioned were definitely tells, I wouldn’t say I have a true scum meta as I’ve only been scum in those same recent games outside of an evil third party but that’s a different game meta entirely.

You just saw me play a game as Town (SS) and I didn't gimmick there. I even discussed early in the game with Jackrito as to why I didn't.



I keep getting confused and thinking z25 was somitomi and Exlight was 3DS.



I will find the post when I do my reread of him later, but essentially Darkpit started asking what people thought about doing a mass claim that came across to me with a very "The masons are divided on this and want to see what Town thinks" point of view. There were one or two other posts that seemed suggestive of it as well.

I’m aware which is why it wasn’t pinging me as much, the bigger issue was definitely that opening as I said.

 

[LaserGuy]

Who is the scum team?

Malakandra/Chaco. If I'm wrong about one of them, I'd probably look at z25 next.

Who did you anticipate the night kill would be?

I thought it would be one of Darkpit or Trisscar. I assumed your claim was another fake.

Who would you have tracked last night if you were the tracker?

Hmm... probably z25. Chaco/Mala were both under some pressure D3 and z25 wasn't really, so z25 would be most likely to take the kill if they were paired with either player.

Why didn't you post after the day ended D3?

I don't usually post after hammer. Better to just wait until after the Night.

What was the purpose of understanding if Z25 understood my meta? Would my response have affected your read depending on how I answered? If so, how so?

Mostly it was to help me understand what z25 was trying to explain in that post, as I thought part of my confusion stemmed from the fact that I was interpreting your meta incorrectly. I think if z25 was genuine, but wrong, it probably is slightly more likely to be Town as I don't think scum would fake a read in this manner, but it's very marginal as z25 could just as well be wrong about your meta as mafia.

 

[ExLight]

hi sorry
I’m here now

first of all, is it -Lo right now?

 

[ExLight]

we need to figure out if there’s a traitor around first and -Lo would point towards that

 

[ExLight]

secondly, Pit is back in the PoE if he isn’t a mason, which what I was thinking some people were implying

 

[ExLight]

thirdly prolly scum among chaco and Z25 like I’ve been yeeting for phases, I’m more comfortable with Z25 this phase as of right now

 

[ExLight]

and now gimme a second or two while I try to get the energy to reread the last Day

 

[ExLight]

Vote: Z25

 

[Chaco]

Xivii

Rajam had thoughts that matched my own D3 about Triss slot. DP also came in and out doubt towards the slot, which undermined who I thought were masons since D2. So when Triss caught that bit of attention from numerous players I was townreading, it was kindve a moment of its either scum or PR. I didn’t feel right not mentioning the possibility. Cause had Triss been scum, it would’ve been a hard sell and an east coast for them.

Consensus on Rajam. Pointless to kick against the goads nonstop when no one will listen. Even Rajam understood that. Lol.

I dropped the push on Laser because once again, no one would drop Rajam despite how many times I said it seems completely uninformed and purely PoE.

Mala didn’t seem inherently scummy to me, the biggest red flag I got from them was their view of your slot didn’t seem as genuine as Boom and mine.

 

[Chaco]

we need to figure out if there’s a traitor around first and -Lo would point towards that

We have no way to discern this

 

[Chaco]

LaserGuy Triss had me as scummy due to attacking Xiv cause that was her partner.

You on the other hand brought up points that were not strong, and began the push post Triss moving.

 

[Chaco]

LaserGuys language in his longer post doesn’t feel genuine either. “Run it up” is used to create a feeling there about how I was supposedly pro Rajam but spoke against it.

From that alone his likelihood of being scum increased for me again.

I’d say order of yeet is:

Laser, Z, so on depending from flips

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

I should officially mention that this could be LyLo.

 

[Darkpit54]

I want to think the evidence points to there not being a traitor? So not LyLo. If there is a traitor, we have a 50/50 chance of hitting scum by shooting randomly, so there's that ig lol.

I think I agree that it's probably Laser today

 

[ExLight]

“could be”
:kannagun:

 

[ExLight]

I’m not going after laser when chaco and z25 are still around and if Z25 really is at everyone’s bottom half of reads then WHY is he still alive can he just hammer him and be happy

 

[Chaco]

Ex, bro, you’ve dug a huge tunnel on me, but I feel you so it’s all good. I’m not scum. You’re wasting your time constantly bringing it up on me. Watch how the lunches have gone because our lynch pool is ever expanding. The game has been filled with this, so continuing to press allow other plays, ie scum to pick up on your minute points and press them. So stop for now, okay? I’m not gonna flip scum, and you’re just gonna have to trust me on that, or don’t? Idc at this point. But all you do is throw my slot around and contribute little else besides that. Your posts have been the same for almost two days now. I don’t want anything but these people, thats feigning activity. So dig in homie.

Z25 is an option. But you need to press in some and give us reasoning other than, this is it. That style of play isn’t really helpful tbr.

 

[Chaco]

Order of town to Lynch;

Chaco
Xivii
Darkpit
Exlight
Mala
Z25
LaserGuy

 

[Z25]

I should officially mention that this could be LyLo.

In other words it probably is not.

As you wouldn’t really use could otherwise. That’s a kinda of meta language theory type of thing, but given the facts we have, traitor is unlikely.

Plus I really can’t see a host not telling us it’s lo.

That would break game balance as scum could easily push us into the wrong lynch today given the amount of slots with a lot of suspicion on them. Which in turn makes it harder for town to win and pretty unfair imo.

 

[Xivii]

Z25 why aren't you scumhunting

 

[ExLight]

Ex, bro, you’ve dug a huge tunnel on me, but I feel you so it’s all good. I’m not scum. You’re wasting your time constantly bringing it up on me. Watch how the lunches have gone because our lynch pool is ever expanding. The game has been filled with this, so continuing to press allow other plays, ie scum to pick up on your minute points and press them. So stop for now, okay? I’m not gonna flip scum, and you’re just gonna have to trust me on that, or don’t? Idc at this point. But all you do is throw my slot around and contribute little else besides that. Your posts have been the same for almost two days now. I don’t want anything but these people, thats feigning activity. So dig in homie.

Z25 is an option. But you need to press in some and give us reasoning other than, this is it. That style of play isn’t really helpful tbr.

Ex, bro, you’ve dug a huge tunnel on me, but I feel you so it’s all good. I’m not scum. You’re wasting your time constantly bringing it up on me. Watch how the lunches have gone because our lynch pool is ever expanding. The game has been filled with this, so continuing to press allow other plays, ie scum to pick up on your minute points and press them. So stop for now, okay? I’m not gonna flip scum, and you’re just gonna have to trust me on that, or don’t? Idc at this point. But all you do is throw my slot around and contribute little else besides that. Your posts have been the same for almost two days now. I don’t want anything but these people, thats feigning activity. So dig in homie.

Z25 is an option. But you need to press in some and give us reasoning other than, this is it. That style of play isn’t really helpful tbr.

well
if we had gone for you and Z25 instead of Rajam and Boom like I’ve been yeeting since D2 we wouldn’t have two now confirmed town dead yeet

and yes, I’m tunneling but so far nothing has happened to change my mind

and I’m willing to go after Z25 before you, we recheck your interactions after that if he flip scum

sorry if my head isn’t in the game tho, I’m having some pretty bad days lately and I’m kinda busy with two other large games

 

[ExLight]

oh well that quoted twice fml

 

[Xivii]

Unvote

 

[Xivii]

We need all townies to vote together today. That doesn't work out with everyone doing their own thing, so it's best we play follow the clear in the end.