Mewtwo complaint thread

[MagiusNecros]

If they're so afraid to change Ganondorf, what would ever possess them to change Pikachu? Pikachu mains have been perfectly content to play the most unlikeable character possible since 64, I can only imagine the outrage if they turned him into do or die.

Also Roy and Ryu? What is this clever joke?

Well they changed Bowser. Probably scared of changing dorf because half want to play as Black Shadow and the other half want to play as an actual Ganondorf.

Rumors suggest Roy and Ryu in 3ds dlc data. Which Roy baffles me. Because everyone wants 3 ways to play as Marth.

And oh yes any character that requires precision like meta knight will suffer from lag big time. Especially how floaty mewtwo is.

 

[HeavyLobster]

I can't wrap my head around Mewtwo being that much lighter than Melee. He's otherwise pretty good, but that weight is just silly. The rest of his weaknesses are workable and he's got quite a few positive traits. I can live with Teleport nerfs, as the move was amazing before, but the weight nerfs simply went too far.
Edit: Also he's not bottom tier by any means, but he is kind of mediocre. I still have no idea why you'd reduce his weight so much when he was already fairly easy to kill as is.

 

[Xzsmmc]

Well they changed Bowser. Probably scared of changing dorf because half want to play as Black Shadow and the other half want to play as an actual Ganondorf.

I've always said that Brawl turning Ganon into a slug with a broken leg on Jupiter was far more alienating than giving him new moves could ever be. Now we have this game that turns Mewtwo from a feather to a feather on the moon.

 

[MagiusNecros]

I've always said that Brawl turning Ganon into a slug with a broken leg on Jupiter was far more alienating than giving him new moves could ever be. Now we have this game that turns Mewtwo from a feather to a feather on the moon.

Yeah I don't get that. Charizard is heavier despite canon saying otherwise. I feel like they are using amiibo weight as a benchmark.

 

[Timbers]

I wonder if people who say Mewtwo is mid tier, do so more as their suitable title rather than an actual placement in a tier list. Low tier characters are not BAD characters in this game, as the tier gaps are slim. Mid tier characters are just better than low tier.

I wonder what characters people think that Mewtwo is actually better than in (our perceived) mid tier, because I'd be inclined to say zero.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Mewtwo has no customs. So he will always be on the low spectrum. As for placement Mewtwo needs to be in a tourney or two and see what people can do with him. But not sure how well he will do.

 

[Crispy_]

I agree with you, Diddy. I was hoping for a faster and heavier MewTwo. No doubt he has potential to be viable but damn, his lag is much too real.

 

[CrypticStorm]

I already made my estimation of what I wanted his weight to be, and indeed it came close to 104 as well.

In PAL Melee, Mewtwo's weight was 89, that's 17 points higher than he has now. 17 points is a whole lot, as it's the difference between NTSC Melee Mario and NTSC Melee Bowser, one being a so called "middle ground" of weight and atritbutes, the other being the "extreme heavy weight".

I just find it weird that Sakurai acknowlegdes in PAL Melee that Mewtwo was too light in NTSC and Japanese Melee by buffing his weight, to give Mewtwo the biggest weight drop in Smash history for this game... 17 points of weight is something you'd take from characters as if he where to get back... Not a character who's most major complaint since day 1 was his weight being too low...

If they'd add 17 points to his PAL Melee weight however, that'd be 89 + 17 = 106, which is just slightly above average, and just above the "regular but trained human scale" which is and at 104. And just below with his armor, muscles and 107 weight ranking. He'd get the exact weight of , who also relies mostly on punishes, trading, spacing, reflecting projectiles and knowing when to shoot his projectiles...

It's indeed extremely humiliating how Mewtwo is portraited again in Smash 4...

I agree wholeheartedly with this. Mewtwo should be around the weight of Yoshi, Link and Falcon (104), but instead is put down to 72, 3 points lower than G&W and just 7 points off from Jigglypuff. A weight buff wouldn't fix all of his problems mind you, but it would perhaps put him into a mid-low mid tier range, kind of like Robin and Zelda (viable, but a second would likely be needed for the really bad MUs).

 

[LimitCrown]

Why does Mewtwo need to be as heavy as Yoshi? Also, in the Smash Wiki page, the table for Melee states that Mewtwo's weight in the PAL version is the same as the one in the NTSC version.

 

[SleuthMechanism]

It is truly a shame to see mewtwo suffer this fate especially since he is one of my favorite characters. For the months)or even YEARS when you count his abscence from brawl in) we had to wait for him this is a disgrace. Very sloppy balancing. he's one of those characters that will excel against a few(such as bowser whom i've found mewtwo can do absolutely hilarious stuff too) whilst getting facestomped by half the cast.

 

[SuperSwagBros]

I like mewtwo
I defiantly think he's good, you just need alot of reads to use him since no grabs/attacks guarantee another hit.
There are defiantly some terrible matchups for mewtwo, but if you main another character & you know the matchups then I feel like he's viable.

 

[FlynnCL]

When I first downloaded Mewtwo and tested him out in Training Mode I was loving his play-style, he seemed like a fantastic fighter with good power and damage. It was too early to play against friends so I took him up online and the constant Mewtwo dittos gave a false sense of extreme power and range in his attacks.

Later in the day, I'm playing against friends. Mewtwo forgets that his hitboxes exist against non-fat hurtboxes, so that's annoying. Even worse, he wasn't killing nearly as early as before, yet he's easily dying below 100%. Oh, I guess that means he's still extremely light, that sucks. Wait, what? He's lighter than Game & Watch now?

Okay, considering the amount of Poké-Puffs I threw at Mewtwo in Pokémon-Amie I find this very suspicious. The dude should be really fat. Either way, it doesn't make much sense to me even in a glass-cannon sense; he does have some raw power in some attacks, but he seriously lacks reliable set-ups into these moves.

Getting into an advantageous position using Mewtwo is extremely hard, and many of his attacks are just too laggy to safety threaten space (basically every aerial and forward-tilt). Down-tilt is good, and if it weren't for that (alongside Shadow Ball) I'd consider his neutral awful. It's no surprise this is why he's struggling against faster fighters.

Between his terrible weight, lack of reliable set-ups, awkward hitbox placement, noticeably long cool-down and/or start-up in almost every aerial I just can't consider this Pokémon anything but mediocre (although I'm not ready to consider him a potential low tier yet).

 

[DrRiceBoy]

I'll agree with almost everybody here. Mewtwo doesn't seem that viable to me either, haha. He really does have a ton of flaws, as pretty much everybody has said. However, I think it's more fair to ask for buffs after waiting a little longer. To be quite honest I'm not too optimistic about him developing either, but I just think it's fair to wait a little longer before calling for buffs. Mewtwo was just released 3 days ago, and while I'm sure everybody's been playing a butt ton of him, we don't know everything about Mewtwo yet. His weight, hitboxes, and frame data won't be magically fixed of course, but we should wait a little longer before calling for buffs. Perhaps there might be something good about him that we haven't discovered yet? Like I said, I'm not too optimistic about Mewtwo developing either, but he's only been out for such a short while and I think it's fair to wait a little longer before dismissing him. This is just my personal opinion on the matter.

Now that being said, I really don't care about Mewtwo being good or bad haha. He's Mewtwo so I'm maining him.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Why does Mewtwo need to be as heavy as Yoshi? Also, in the Smash Wiki page, the table for Melee states that Mewtwo's weight in the PAL version is the same as the one in the NTSC version.

It is not, Mewtwo is heavier in PAL.

 

[carlos11]

Ah, the salt thread. I've been looking for a thread where I could find other salty individuals such as myself.

I've been playing a lot of Mewtwo since the moment he became available to the public, and I've gotta say I'm extremely disappointed. I was expecting him to be decent. Not the best character in the game, but a character that's moderately good. Like Greninja (I don't have anything else to use for comparison). I was hoping that they'd give Mewtwo some logical buffs, such as being as heavy as Yoshi, fast, and being able to act out of UpB. We got none of that, and that was what Mewtwo needed the most.
I still like Mewtwo and I'll still play him because I like him as a character in general. I enjoy playing as all the Pokemon. I don't like him as a fighter in Smash4, though.

Also, I see everyone saying that Mewtwo's got a great recovery, but imo, it's actually not that great. Here's why:
It's because of his weight. Being extremely light means he'll get launched great distances at relatively low percents. This becomes a problem offstage. Mewtwo's recovery is considered great only because of his second jump, but if you use it and then you're attacked, chances are, you won't make it back to the stage. You'll be launched a greater distance than teleport can cover, and without that second jump, you're dead. Mind you, this does not happen when I'm simply trying to get back to the stage. It happens when I'm trying to gimp the opponent. Mewtwo's aerials sure are outprioritized by a lot of attacks. Teleport is just garbage.

 

[LimitCrown]

It is not, Mewtwo is heavier in PAL.

I would like to see confirmation of this. In the version changes page in the Smash Wiki, a change in Mewtwo's weight from the NTSC version is not listed. It doesn't make sense to complain about them doing the opposite of what they had done before when it never happened in the first place, and it's misleading to claim this.

Also, it seems that people expected Mewtwo to be a very great character in comparison to the high-tier characters, and then they're dissatisfied when their expectations aren't met.

 

[Diddy Kong]

http://supersmashbros.wikia.com/wiki/Weight

Left row, Mewtwo's weight in NTSC: 85
Right row, Mewtwo's weight in PAL: 89

When you place Mewtwo on the 'scale' in the Mushroom Kingdom stage, you see the scale won't move up or down when he's up there with either meaning he's the same weight as them in PAL Melee. This alone is pretty much a gurantee he's buffed from NTSC's weight, and getting a weight nerf.

 

[LimitCrown]

Those values are not listed in the weight chart of the SmashWiki.

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Weight#Super_Smash_Bros._Melee_weight_values

Mewtwo's weight in the NTSC version is 85.
Mewtwo's weight in the PAL version is 85

Mewtwo's weight has not changed in the PAL version, and his weight is the same as Marth, Roy, and Young Link's weight.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Regardless of the weight in either version of melee he got lighter. And if a lightweight that dies early and is able to be comboed to death I think something is wrong.

You can argue his great recovery options are there as a countermeasure to the fact that any moderately strong hit sends him flying.

I have fought a few mean kirby's and if they pulverize mewtwo with utilts, and grabs he will already be in kill range in no time at all.

He has great attacks but making them land is an issue.

He might be a character that relies on hard reads. Which characters like Bowser and Ganon obviously get more rewards from one.

Mewtwo hits hard. But not like a semi truck.

 

[LimitCrown]

The hitboxes on Mewtwo's attacks don't seem to be strange to me.

 

[MagiusNecros]

The hitboxes on Mewtwo's attacks don't seem to be strange to me.

Doesn't happen all the time but his tail. Mainly utilt. And fair can go through the target and miss. Fair's hitbox is actually Mewtwo's hand as sometimes the slash effect results in a miss.

Happens with smaller characters more often.

 

[LimitCrown]

Doesn't happen all the time but his tail. Mainly utilt. And fair can go through the target and miss. Fair's hitbox is actually Mewtwo's hand as sometimes the slash effect results in a miss.

Happens with smaller characters more often.

Mewtwo's up tilt's hitboxes at the end of his tail aren't likely to hit grounded opponents at the end of the move because those hitboxes seem to end during that point. However, the hitboxes at the base of his tail will most likely hit the grounded opponents.

The hitboxes of Mewtwo's front air attack are right in front of him where his hand is. The hitboxes match the animation, but the visual effects can sometimes make it seem that you should have hit the opponent because the visual effects linger for a short while.

 

[MagiusNecros]

That's correct. His second jump can make it difficult to follow up. Just need to work on timing.

 

[Psyruby]

Regardless of the weight in either version of melee he got lighter. And if a lightweight that dies early and is able to be comboed to death I think something is wrong.

You can argue his great recovery options are there as a countermeasure to the fact that any moderately strong hit sends him flying.

I have fought a few mean kirby's and if they pulverize mewtwo with utilts, and grabs he will already be in kill range in no time at all.

He has great attacks but making them land is an issue.

He might be a character that relies on hard reads. Which characters like Bowser and Ganon obviously get more rewards from one.

Mewtwo hits hard. But not like a semi truck.

I've found that combo'ing Mewtwo is actually very hard if you DI correctly. The Mewtwo frame data board found that Mewtwo's intangibility frames on Air dodge start at frame 2 and last 23 frames. I can definitely agree with this as when I DI correctly out of Mario, Luigi, Kirby, Captain Falcon's combos I usually Air Dodge before they hit with Uair, Utilt, or Fairs.

 

[SleuthMechanism]

Regardless of the weight in either version of melee he got lighter. And if a lightweight that dies early and is able to be comboed to death I think something is wrong.

You can argue his great recovery options are there as a countermeasure to the fact that any moderately strong hit sends him flying.

I have fought a few mean kirby's and if they pulverize mewtwo with utilts, and grabs he will already be in kill range in no time at all.

He has great attacks but making them land is an issue.

He might be a character that relies on hard reads. Which characters like Bowser and Ganon obviously get more rewards from one.

Mewtwo hits hard. But not like a semi truck.

Yeah.. the thng about ganon and bowser is that it's ok if they miss a few times because of their durability. a character who relies on hard reads that will also be put into kill percent by any decent string is just.. terrible design.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

Yeah.. the thng about ganon and bowser is that it's ok if they miss a few times because of their durability. a character who relies on hard reads that will also be put into kill percent by any decent string is just.. terrible design.

You don't actually need hard reads to do stuff with Mewtwo. He can string off of some really high range moves, has the strongest charge shot in the game and a Kill throw. As long as you aren't out here pretending to use Pikachu and trying to play rushdown you're fine. As of right now people think rushdown is the better style in smash4 in general but you can't be too afraid to try something else.

 

[LimitCrown]

I thought that people preferred rushdown since the beginning in this game and the others.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Yeah.. the thng about ganon and bowser is that it's ok if they miss a few times because of their durability. a character who relies on hard reads that will also be put into kill percent by any decent string is just.. terrible design.

Well we will have to find something that works. Would hate to use Mewtwo as a keep away defensive character.

 

[Saikyoshi]

I try to get past the attack lag with very liberal use of Teleport to help me land and retreat faster than the opponent can snap out of my attack, myself. It's working pretty well so far.

We may not be able to act out of it, but it can still take me from a midair clash back to the ground safely near-instantly.

 

[CaliburChamp]

I don't agree with anyone that says Mewtwo is mid tier or higher. You're saying he is better than almost half the cast. Yet, we don't have character discussions about how bad these other characters are. Especially with Mii sword fighter getting a buff to a few moves, along with Zelda getting a slight buff and improved Phantom. That leaves Mewtwo as one of the worst. You got to keep in mind, Smash 4 is more balanced than Melee ever was. The top tiers in melee were far and away better than the bottom tiers. In Smash 4, the gap isn't that extreme. That's why it may seem like Smash 4 Mewtwo is better.
To me Smash 4 Mewtwo is a gimmicky character. He's a great choice against other projectile characters. His confusion becomes a big damage racker and KO move when reflecting stuff back. I had a villager die at 30% from mewtwo using side b on the falling tree, reflecting it back for 60% damage. But once people figure out Mewtwo more, they will realize to avoid those traps. It will only get harder for Mewtwo once people learn how to fight him.

 

[CaliburChamp]

You don't actually need hard reads to do stuff with Mewtwo. He can string off of some really high range moves, has the strongest charge shot in the game and a Kill throw. As long as you aren't out here pretending to use Pikachu and trying to play rushdown you're fine. As of right now people think rushdown is the better style in smash4 in general but you can't be too afraid to try something else.

He doesn't have the strongest charge shot in the game. Lucario has a stronger charge shot when at 120% and above and Samus is tied with Mewtwo shadow ball in damage. They both do 25% when fully charged.

 

[S.P.A.D.]

God where does my second jump go using Mew Two. So easy to cancel it out... That might be my only complaint thus far.

 

[Browny]

People disappointed with Mewtwo need to remember that this game demands patience.

I see so many people playing a rushdown mewtwo and its just so dumb, hes not fast and hes light. This is brawl 2.0, when you have range and projectiles, you sit behind them all day.

How well do you think a Rosalina would fare if all she did was chase people around trying to box them in with her jab?

Mewtwo doesnt need super advanced techs or hard reads, he needs patience. You need to play him like brawl olimar. Also consider the optimal wario playstyle which is basically run away for a minute, fart, run away some more. Playing wario like any other character is an easy way to lose. Mewtwo has solid punishes and a great edgeguarding game. Also his pivot grab is pretty damn nice.

 

[SmashBroski]

The decrease in weight makes no sense; I don't understand the whole big, floaty archetype, it really only works for Rosalina.

Weight was something Mewtwo was terrible in in Melee, at this rate I'd only expect him to be mid-tier.

 

[carlos11]

God where does my second jump go using Mew Two. So easy to cancel it out... That might be my only complaint thus far.

I have this same problem. I assume I have a second jump after being hit and it takes me a while to realize it's gone.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Turn tap jump off. And sometimes Nair wants to use his second jump anyway.

 

[LimitCrown]

Sometimes, I tend to accidentally press the jump button when I'm not trying to do so, and I don't notice.

 

[DavemanCozy]

I think the weight factor was put in because Mewtwo's recovery is really good and his gimping game is great. The dev team decided that a character with those strengths should also be Jiggs light to be fair. ¯\_ツ_/¯

Which Roy baffles me. Because everyone wants 3 ways to play as Marth.

Lol, this is actually what baffles me. 3 ways to play as a nerfed character whose other variants are both worse.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Lol, this is actually what baffles me. 3 ways to play as a nerfed character whose other variants are both worse.

Well like I said elsewhere if you want to be rewarded for spacing attacks horribly then Roy is for you.

 

[xxEliteAlicexx]

Look, you guys wanted Mewtwo. Now that we have him, you start complaining. It's either this or that. This community needs to make up their mind. ALL characters have weaknesses, not every character can be perfect. Turn those weaknesses into possibilities. Not every character is going to be as perfect as you want them to be. I don't know when this community will realize that this is Smash 4, not Melee.

Instead of complaining, get good. How do you think a character like Pikachu (who was said to SUCK during the 3DS days) managed to become top tier? Because people actually used him and learned techniques. Get real people. Your character has been granted back to you, and you should be happy about it. Remember the phrase "Ya get what cha' pay for?"

Ungrateful people...

I love you. This was well said.