Mewtwo complaint thread

[Paxadin]

You're acting like I said other characters don't have high risk, high reward moves lol, i just meant the move itself is unique in what it does and how you do it. (Stunning them from facing them, them getting dazed for a free smash attack or grab etc)

Comparing Zelda's move to it was pretty random.

Zelda was only an example of characters with high-risk high-reward, I was comparing the usefulness, not the moves themselves.
Plus you said yourself that it was "amazing" and " 'perfect' " (I know perfect isn't what you literally meant), when it's far from it.

Okay, first point, I find that mewtwo has a much easier time obtaining the kill than other characters. He has a bunch of low risk kill moves that all can be used in several situations to allow mix ups. Second point and Third Point combined, Utilt and Dtilt have MANY true combos at many percents and you cant' easily DI out of them. 4th point, the range on all his smashes is excellent, his Fsmash has Captain Falcon's Elbow of range with the disjoint(which is safe on shield), Down Smash has more range than Fsmash and low endlag to the point that it is safe on dodge, and Usmash has amazing vertical range and can suck opponents on the ground into it. Confusion isn't' useless, it just requires a read to reflect projectiles and doubles as a bait command grab so you can shield punish or chase after them, and having one nearly useless move is nothing special in this game.

Being able to kill on average at about 120% with kill moves is pretty mediocre for a character that's meant to be a "powerhouse". If you look at his 'true combos', they only work against CPUs or opponents who don't DI / act out.
The only time I've ever seen Mewtwo being good was against an opponent who didn't know he could jump out of practically all his moves.

The only time ever in the history of Mewtwo before he gets a patch that you will see confuse follow up into anything and not take a hit in the face is when the opponent doesn't know he can act faster than you.

His smash attacks are as wonky as Samus', in my experience.

EDIT: I'm highly curious of what people's opinions will be of Mewtwo in a month or two, considering we'll have many more players that will know about his gaping flaws.

 

[Psyruby]

Zelda was only an example of characters with high-risk high-reward, I was comparing the usefulness, not the moves themselves.
Plus you said yourself that it was "amazing" and " 'perfect' " (I know perfect isn't what you literally meant), when it's far from it.



Being able to kill on average at about 120% with kill moves is pretty mediocre for a character that's meant to be a "powerhouse". If you look at his 'true combos', they only work against CPUs or opponents who don't DI / act out.
The only time I've ever seen Mewtwo being good was against an opponent who didn't know he could jump out of practically all his moves.

The only time ever in the history of Mewtwo before he gets a patch that you will see confuse follow up into anything and not take a hit in the face is when the opponent doesn't know he can act faster than you.

His smash attacks are as wonky as Samus', in my experience.

I kill around 110% with Mewtwo(which is good for Smash 4), his true combos work on DI and jumps, mainly cause they can't jump or DI fast enough. You have to hit them with a particular part of his tail for all his combos, but they can be followed up at any percent. Confusion, you can shield before they hit you. I know that for a fact. I have never experienced any wonkiness with his smash attacks other than Fsmash having a dead zone extremely close to Mewtwo.

EDIT: Mewtwo has many flaws, but people act like he is terrible, but he's not. You just have to play carefully before being aggressive.

 

[GanonPawnch]

Zelda was only an example of characters with high-risk high-reward, I was comparing the usefulness, not the moves themselves.
Plus you said yourself that it was "amazing" and " 'perfect' " (I know perfect isn't what you literally meant), when it's far from it.



Being able to kill on average at about 120% with kill moves is pretty mediocre for a character that's meant to be a "powerhouse". If you look at his 'true combos', they only work against CPUs or opponents who don't DI / act out.
The only time I've ever seen Mewtwo being good was against an opponent who didn't know he could jump out of practically all his moves.

The only time ever in the history of Mewtwo before he gets a patch that you will see confuse follow up into anything and not take a hit in the face is when the opponent doesn't know he can act faster than you.

His smash attacks are as wonky as Samus', in my experience.

EDIT: I'm highly curious of what people's opinions will be of Mewtwo in a month or two, considering we'll have many more players that will know about his gaping flaws.

I highly disagree with his smash attacks being wonky, his up-smash sucks you in like a vacuum lol. It even beats out down b moves like falcon kick, wizard's foot and I think even bowser bomb ( not sure on that) anyway, the hit box is pretty huge. It is however a little bit dodgy on smaller grounded characters, but it's obviously meant as an anti air move, and works really well as one.

 

[meleebrawler]

^this, pretty much. honestly, it should stun in the air too so it has more utlity and double as a situational edge gaurding tool.

Too bad aerial dazes are NEVER a thing. Perhaps there could be a custom disable that paralyses instead,
allowing those aerial stuns and more use at lower percents, but losing the ability to guarantee KOs at high
damages.

 

[DavemanCozy]

Zelda and Mewtwo are different. Zelda has bad approach, Mewtwo has bad defensive options.

 

[Darxai]

Mewtwo is pretty much the opposite of the project m mewtwo: he's much faster, but a lot weaker to his melee counterpart (in terms of weight).

His playstyle is different only because he has no form of wavedashing, and his mind games are much harder to do now. Hes much more reliant on his upsmash and upthrow more than anything else.

 

[DavemanCozy]

Mewtwo is pretty much the opposite of the project m mewtwo: he's much faster, but a lot weaker to his melee counterpart (in terms of weight).

His playstyle is different only because he has no form of wavedashing, and his mind games are much harder to do now. Hes much more reliant on his upsmash and upthrow more than anything else.

D-tilt is basically his jab in this game. It's as fast as jab (frame 6, if the data is accurate) and has better range. I have noticed that Jab -> (crouch) Jab -> grab is a thing with Mewtwo on certain characters. Aside from that, it could also be an odd anti-air since it hits higher than D-tilt. Jab seems to be situational, D-tilt is better in every other way. I remember Melee Mewtwo was also a lot about getting confirms with D-tilt, so he hasn't changed too much in that regard.

 

[LimitCrown]

The hitbox for Mewtwo's down smash attack is a bit strange. I'm wondering what the best time to use the attack is. It has the least amount of ending lag compared to the other smash attacks, so I guess that it could be useful.

A property of Mewtwo's standard attack is that when it collides with an opponents ground attack within the same priority range, Mewtwo won't be interrupted while the opponent will.

 

[Enoki]

Disable is not useless if you know how to condition an opponent, and it's also an incredible punish move. For instance, say you perfect shield a smash attack. Normally, you would only be able to jab, grab, or use a tilt. However, a quick disable gives you a charged smash attack, which is an insane punish. Disable can also catch opponents who are too used to standing up from the ledge. It's not easy to use; it actually takes skill and thought and preparation. Anyone calling it useless just isn't looking for the opportunities to use it. :3

Also, FSmash has deceptive range. I've randomly out ranged sword characters sometimes, whereas dsmash is quite easy to whiff because the animation is larger than the hitbox.

 

[DavemanCozy]

The hitbox for Mewtwo's down smash attack is a bit strange. I'm wondering what the best time to use the attack is. It has the least amount of ending lag compared to the other smash attacks, so I guess that it could be useful.

A property of Mewtwo's standard attack is that when it collides with an opponents ground attack within the same priority range, Mewtwo won't be interrupted while the opponent will.

It looks like a good move to punish ledge getups and ledge getup-attacks, maybe ledge rolls if you read it. The lower cool-down makes it appealing to use for these in case you miss it, but the startup is pretty slow.

 

[Psyruby]

It looks like a good move to punish ledge getups and ledge getup-attacks, maybe ledge rolls if you read it. The lower cool-down makes it appealing to use for these in case you miss it, but the startup is pretty slow.

I use Dsmash as a bait smash. A lot of other characters have these attacks. They have long start up but low end lag to the point that their range makes it impossible to punish the character. Metaknight, DDD, Mario, and Ganondorf have these types of attacks also.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I definitely think its better that he's weak out of the gate, rather than strong.

The worst thing that could have happened was that he was a clear new A tier. Everyone's playing him because he's new, even though he's weak. Had he been strong, everyone would have picked him up, but nobody would put him back down.

That would be terrible.
There's really few things worse than having no character variety.

What exactly would be wrong about this? It's bound to happen to any DLC character if they end up being "good". So why would it be bad in Mewtwo's case? Am still hoping for buffs for him down the line...

My opinion about Mewtwo has slightly changed after playing with my 'own' control scheme, namely the GameCube controller. Yeah, the Classic Wii Controller didn't do much for me, and my gameplay has drastically improved ever since playing with the control scheme I've been using since 2002. So yeah, I can play Mewtwo better now.

This is not to say Mewtwo now suddenly isn't extremely flawed, because I still think he is. I still think he needs a bit of a power boost, less lag, and far more weight (at the very least, his PAL Melee weight of 89). But he might actually be exactly Middle Tier. I think he's most comparable in viability with . He has his obvious strenghts and a good combo game, but his weaknesses are just as obvious to, and easy to exploit.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Ike at least has an attack that hits on both sides though.

 

[meleebrawler]

Ike at least has an attack that hits on both sides though.

Both rather slow and easy to punish. Mewtwo's long roll should easily let you evade situations
where the opponent tries to sneak up from behind.

 

[Spatman]

Sakurai gave Mewtwo almost all possible flaws...
It's glaring it's an intentional choice: Mewtwo must be crap in Smash Bros games.
Who knows why...

still I love this character (clearly much more than Sakurai loves him), and I find fun his "playstyle" (between inverted commas because it isn't a well defined playstyle, because of all the flaws that make it unfinished and unpolished)

Mewtwo fans and mainers who are happy BECAUSE OF Mewtwo is destined to be the bottom of the bottomest, are strange strange people...

 

[Diagonal_Smash]

BThrow kills at around 130-140% at the ledge against mid weight characters without rage, lol

LMAO. That's ****ing terrible.

 

[Nobie]

LMAO. That's ****ing terrible.

It's actually not. The only characters with stronger back throws for KO purposes are Ness and Villager. Mewtwo's back throw actually kills earlier than Donkey Kong, Deep Breathing Wii Fit Trainer, all of the Mario Bros, AND PRE-PATCH Sonic, who was notorious for having a killing back throw that was nerfed.

So if top 3 back throw is terrible, by all means call it terrible.

 

[SleuthMechanism]

^yeah.. one has to remember that this isn't melee and that average kill percents are much MUCH higher.(honestly almost disgustingly so IMO)

 

[MagiusNecros]

I kill around 110% with Mewtwo(which is good for Smash 4), his true combos work on DI and jumps, mainly cause they can't jump or DI fast enough. You have to hit them with a particular part of his tail for all his combos, but they can be followed up at any percent. Confusion, you can shield before they hit you. I know that for a fact. I have never experienced any wonkiness with his smash attacks other than Fsmash having a dead zone extremely close to Mewtwo.

EDIT: Mewtwo has many flaws, but people act like he is terrible, but he's not. You just have to play carefully before being aggressive.

For a character that dies early. He needs to be able to kill characters that early as well IMO.

 

[Diddy Kong]

For a character that dies early. He needs to be able to kill characters that early as well IMO.

Which is why I think his Smashes could be buffed as well. And his weight needs to be at the very least 89.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I think people really need to get in the punish game.

I guess maining has put me in the right mindset for .

Punishing comes naturally as does the mind games.



I will say that people keep saying certain kill percents are terrible.

But...

It's actually not. The only characters with stronger back throws for KO purposes are Ness and Villager. Mewtwo's back throw actually kills earlier than Donkey Kong, Deep Breathing Wii Fit Trainer, all of the Mario Bros, AND PRE-PATCH Sonic, who was notorious for having a killing back throw that was nerfed.

So if top 3 back throw is terrible, by all means call it terrible.

^yeah.. one has to remember that this isn't melee and that average kill percents are much MUCH higher.(honestly almost disgustingly so IMO)

This is absolutely right.

We have to remember that we have a different set of standards going on here.


Now, we also need to remember that he did just come out a week ago.

Rome wasn't built in a day.

wasn't seen as the best until years went by.

I say give it time.

Experiment.

It's more productive than just talking here.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Bowser and Ganon can kill for less and they play the same game mewtwo does.

 

[Jexulus]

Bowser and Ganon can kill for less and they play the same game mewtwo does.

I disagree. Making an analogy to common roles in RPGs, Bowser, Ganon, and Mewtwo are all tanks, but not the same type of tank. Bowser and Ganon have to leverage their weight (above average defenses) and power in order to succeed, but they can't take every hit; they still need to play smart. Mewtwo, on the other hand, is an agile tank. It can't really afford to take too much damage, but it has the speed and recovery options to evade opponents before leveraging its offensive capabilities.
I personally fly the flag of heavy tanks like Bowser and the rest, but I can appreciate what Mewtwo offers.

 

[MagiusNecros]

I disagree. Making an analogy to common roles in RPGs, Bowser, Ganon, and Mewtwo are all tanks, but not the same type of tank. Bowser and Ganon have to leverage their weight (above average defenses) and power in order to succeed, but they can't take every hit; they still need to play smart. Mewtwo, on the other hand, is an agile tank. It can't really afford to take too much damage, but it has the speed and recovery options to evade opponents before leveraging its offensive capabilities.
I personally fly the flag of heavy tanks like Bowser and the rest, but I can appreciate what Mewtwo offers.

I am talking mindgames.

 

[Jexulus]

I am talking mindgames.

Yeah, I realized that's what you were talking about halfway through that post, but I decided not to alter the post to make that more clear. They leverage different strengths to play mind games with their opponents.

 

[Spatman]

it's true that in this game kill percentages are higher than melee ones, but it's true also that mewtwo dies about 30% earlier than he could kill. And imho he has bigger issues to raise opponent's percentage than many other characters

 

[HakuryuVision]

My view on Mewtwo isn't as negative as it used to be (having tons of fun using him, and i'm winning more battles consistently), but i still hope for a weight buff.

 

[Transforce98]

*Obvious Joke is obvious*
So I played against Mewtwo for the first time today... Shawdowball spammer. Is this the accurate representation of all Mewtwo mains?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

*Obvious Joke is obvious*
So I played against Mewtwo for the first time today... Shawdowball spammer. Is this the accurate representation of all Mewtwo mains?

Only the ones who use the dark color scheme.

 

[Transforce98]

Only the ones who use the dark color scheme.

*Was actually dark*

 

[Psyruby]

*Was actually dark*

I see by your character icons that you play Tink and Little Mac. If you were using either character, then I may have an explanation. Tink is basically shadowball spam cause Mewtwo sucks at approaching projectile characters, but Shadow Ball is godly against them as being far away from the opponent gives plenty of time to charge it up, and you can punish them for throwing projectiles. Little Mac... well.... Mewtwo... I believe.... is hard countered by Little Mac. Mewtwo's frame data, lightness, and rolls are so bad that Little Mac just eats him, so I could see someone resorting to spam cause of just hating the fight(I don't condone it tho.)

 

[Transforce98]

I see by your character icons that you play Tink and Little Mac. If you were using either character, then I may have an explanation. Tink is basically shadowball spam cause Mewtwo sucks at approaching projectile characters, but Shadow Ball is godly against them as being far away from the opponent gives plenty of time to charge it up, and you can punish them for throwing projectiles. Little Mac... well.... Mewtwo... I believe.... is hard countered by Little Mac. Mewtwo's frame data, lightness, and rolls are so bad that Little Mac just eats him, so I could see someone resorting to spam cause of just hating the fight(I don't condone it tho.)

Well, i was practicing Robin at the time, and I don't think Robin's heavy state is a good match-up against Mewtwo's lightness. Plus, Achfire obviously can't protect Robin from all Projectiles. I think another factor was the fact that, as I said above, was my first Mewtwo fight. Trust me, I didn't like it either, I fought someone playing Samus earlier with projectile spam, and I playing the Little Underdog himself. I won, eventually. No stocks lost, final percentage on me was 175, Smash kill against a charged blast.

 

[Diagonal_Smash]

It's actually not. The only characters with stronger back throws for KO purposes are Ness and Villager. Mewtwo's back throw actually kills earlier than Donkey Kong, Deep Breathing Wii Fit Trainer, all of the Mario Bros, AND PRE-PATCH Sonic, who was notorious for having a killing back throw that was nerfed.

So if top 3 back throw is terrible, by all means call it terrible.

No. My point wasn't really to call mewtwo's throw terrible. We all know it's good. I was just trying to point out his total inaccuracy by saying it kills at 130-140 at the edge. It kills way earlier than that, if you're RIGHT on the edge.

Honestly. If you needed them to be at 130-140 on the edge for it to kill (which you don't) up throw would already do it at that point. It would be horrible. The fact is however, that 115-120 usually does it right on the ledge.

 

[GigaBowserXyZ]

I just can't stand how people can jump/attack out Mewtwo's side B before even reaching the ground. That move would be so much better if it weren't for that problem.

 

[Nobie]

I think just the fact that l-canceling doesn't exist anymore is a big deal for confusion. Nothing is guaranteed but you know where they're going to be, in the air, and you can start a mixup based on that.

 

[Enoki]

With confusion, you can get a bunch of mix ups. Try to see what your opponent typically does. If you notice that they try to tech it, fire an uncharged shadow ball. This guarantees you get a free disable. It probably won't work more than once, but if you use it uncommonly, it can be a good mixup. If they always attack immediately, shield and grab or jab. If they jump, chase them and punish their landing. I typically try to shield grab their landings.
If nothing else, just shield, take your free damage, and go back to neutral. :3

 

[phantom man]

Guys............. I just realized something! Mewtwo+Lucas= Mucas!!

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

I don't understand the complaint about the time window of 4 months with Mewtwo's moveset. Making a character takes time, and Mewtwo like everyone else is made from scratch so obviously it's going to take a while to complete regardless of the moves he is going to have.
It seems that some people mistakenly associated Mewtwo's 5, 4 months of development with a brand new moveset. Speaking of which, I don't know why some expected this. Almost every veteran has the same moves since their debut with only perhaps one or two moves being changed per installment, of course some exceptions exist like Bowser but those are very few.

 

[MagiusNecros]

They didn't make Mewtwo from scratch. One being they pulled 90% of his move set from melee. And I believe he was planned for Brawl so some assets were likely used from there as well since smash 4 was using brawl as a base for framework.

Did they have to make a new model and animate it? Yes. Did they have to put in new values for the new game engine? Yes. But to say Mewtwo was built from scratch is a bold statement.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Except that they didn't pull the moveset from Melee, since data from that game wasn't transferable. Besides, they did mentioned in a interview a while ago that they made every character from scratch so I don't see why it would be different with Mewtwo.

Still doesn't make sense why some thought that the 5 months of development meant a moveset revamp. This kind of work takes time, same moveset or not.