Mewtwo complaint thread

[MagiusNecros]

Pikachu is heavier then Mewtwo no?

 

[Psyruby]

Pikachu is heavier then Mewtwo no?

Yes, pikachu is heavier.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Yes, pikachu is heavier.

That's hilarious.

 

[Psyruby]

That's hilarious.

The irony is not lost on me and I even like playing Mewtwo. Another intriguing connection between Pikachu and Mewtwo in Smash 4 is that they are the same speed.

Edit: When running.

 

[Mo433]

I see Mewtwo as another Palutena in a sense. When the game first came out, people said that she sucked, and wasnt viable. But with patience, she is seen as a viable character even when she doesn't have custom moves. Even without custom moves Mewtwo is still viable. While he isn't the BEST character in the game, he is still a great character. The only main problem worth complaining for is his weight. He is light, but he can't escape combos very well, which I find stupid.

On the plus side, he works really well against projectile users, considering the fact that Shadow Ball goes through most projectiles, and he even has a reflector. Shadow Ball works really well for breaking shields/pivot specials. His jab into grab is one of the best things about him, and can be used for so many mix-up. Multi jab beats out a lot of moves, and has good range. Nair works well offstage, and can be used to drag your opponent down/kill them. Down throw is great for mix ups and can sometimes even lead to a kill with a strong read. Back throw did get nerfed, but I think it's more of the dev team adjusting him towards Smash 4 than them just nerfing that move just for the heck of it.

Mewtwo is more of a patient character, which is really the same playstyle he had in Melee. The way I see it is he is just Melee Mewtwo but better, which is great to me. I can say without a doubt that you guys aren't putting in enough effort to master him/use him effectively. He just takes time.

 

[chainmaillekid]

I definitely think its better that he's weak out of the gate, rather than strong.

The worst thing that could have happened was that he was a clear new A tier. Everyone's playing him because he's new, even though he's weak. Had he been strong, everyone would have picked him up, but nobody would put him back down.

That would be terrible.
There's really few things worse than having no character variety.

 

[redroses]

Just had a match against Wario, used a fresh U-Throw against him while he had 130%, didn't kill.
So, then I went to the edge of the stage, he had 150% by then, did a fresh B-Throw and that also didn't kill him.
What the hell, this should not be possible?

 

[MagiusNecros]

Just had a match against Wario, used a fresh U-Throw against him while he had 130%, didn't kill.
So, then I went to the edge of the stage, he had 150% by then, did a fresh B-Throw and that also didn't kill him.
What the hell, this should not be possible?

160% is the definitive kill range for every character for uthrow.

 

[redroses]

160% is the definitive kill range for every character for uthrow.

Ah I see, I thought it was lower as I always saw everybody mention being a kill throw (with those high % needed it doesn't really feel like one though. Sure it kills, but at those % many characters have "kill" throws then).

 

[MagiusNecros]

Ah I see, I thought it was lower as I always saw everybody mention being a kill throw (with those high % needed it doesn't really feel like one though. Sure it kills, but at those % many characters have "kill" throws then).

160% is without rage. Could be sooner in rage but if you want a guaranteed kill then 160% is the magic number.

 

[redroses]

160% is without rage. Could be sooner in rage but if you want a guaranteed kill then 160% is the magic number.

Yeah, I figured it would work earlier with rage, but getting rage with Mewtwo can be often troublesome.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Yeah, I figured it would work earlier with rage, but getting rage with Mewtwo can be often troublesome.

It can be.

 

[Enoki]

Yeah, I figured it would work earlier with rage, but getting rage with Mewtwo can be often troublesome.

What stage? With absolutely no rage and perfect DI, Wario lives to 140% on Final destination. With rage and DI, Wario might only live until around 110%.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

I only wish Mewtwo wasn't so ridiculously light...

Pikachu is heavier? That's it this game officially makes no sense.

 

[redroses]

What stage? With absolutely no rage and perfect DI, Wario lives to 140% on Final destination. With rage and DI, Wario might only live until around 110%.

It was on Kongo Jungle 64 and I was two steps away from the very edge and had no rage (had 0% if I recall correctly). I even got the red/black flash, but he survived.

For reference, I think I was standing where the red plant is on the right side: http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--a7L-FmeA--/oa0yjbe3coxipxz9zncc.png

 

[Enoki]

It was on Kongo Jungle 64 and I was two steps away from the very edge and had no rage (had 0% if I recall correctly). I even got the red/black flash, but he survived.

For reference, I think I was standing where the red plant is on the right side: http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--a7L-FmeA--/oa0yjbe3coxipxz9zncc.png

On most stages, from the ground it kills Wario between 134% and 145%. Kongo happens to have a massively high ceiling.

Just for kicks, here's the percentage Wario dies at with good DI and no rage at various places:
Kongo Jungle Lowest point - 174%
EDIT: From "the red plant" - 168%
Battlefield Floor - 149%
FD Floor - 140%
Kongo Side platforms - 130%
Halberd 1st Transformation Floor - 126%
Halberd 2nd Transformation Floor - 115%
Kongo Highest Point - 113%
Battlefield Top Platform - 113%
Halberd 1st Platform - 103%
Halberd Platform, 2nd Transformation - 95%
Highest Platform in Skyloft - 85%
T&C's Highest Point - 80%
Duck Hunt Highest point - 61%
Delfino Top platform - As low as 50% during some transformations. :3

And in contrast, from the lowest point of Kongo:
Dedede - 202%
Jiggly - 133%

As you can see, stage and positioning have a huge impact. :3

Also, Regarding Bthrow.
It kills wario from that position at 148% with no DI, and 179% with perfect DI. So if your opponent had good DI, it makes sense that he lived. Kongo is very hard to kill on compared to other stages.

 

[meleebrawler]

I only wish Mewtwo wasn't so ridiculously light...

Pikachu is heavier? That's it this game officially makes no sense.

Don't forget that weight in this game is equivalent to stamina in other fighters. I don't think Bowser
would be as heavy if he was designed as a speedster character (as ridiculous as that may seem).
And OPness aside, taking hits has never been Mewtwo's strong point.

Look at Akuma from Street Fighter, narratively he is insanely powerful in all regards, but in playable
hands he has insanely low stamina for no reason other than balance.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

Don't forget that weight in this game is equivalent to stamina in other fighters. I don't think Bowser
would be as heavy if he was designed as a speedster character (as ridiculous as that may seem).
And OPness aside, taking hits has never been Mewtwo's strong point.

Look at Akuma from Street Fighter, narratively he is insanely powerful in all regards, but in playable
hands he has insanely low stamina for no reason other than balance.

Didn't look at it that way. I suppose that makes a bit more sense.

 

[carlos11]

It is absolutely ludicrous that some people can look at Mewtwo in Smash4 and say blatantly outrageous things like "git gud", "use his weaknesses as strengths", "he is light because he needed to be balanced", "Pikachu used to be low tier", or "if you put your time into it, any character can be good".

 

[LunarWingCloud]

Pikachu. Low tier. What the hell are people smoking? He was always mid to high tier in every game since the first tier list of each one.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

He doesn't have the strongest charge shot in the game. Lucario has a stronger charge shot when at 120% and above and Samus is tied with Mewtwo shadow ball in damage. They both do 25% when fully charged.

Without rage I said. 120% Lucario has both Aura and Rage going for him. Also I meant knockback since Mewtwo's kills earlier.

 

[Spatman]

I think Mewtwo was designed bad on purpose, and this is Sakurai 's will to teach us to not ask him anything. Never. Lol

 

[MagiusNecros]

Well at least Mewtwo gave me a reason to DI properly. He still dies early but lives slightly longer.

 

[SleuthMechanism]

So i've found another "lovely" quirk about mewtwo. That little boost you get from confusion in the air? you can't snap onto the ledge with it at all even when you're right next to it youll just slide down. So essentially mewtwo recovery is even more linear and punishable.(since 99% percent of the time when knocked far back your only viable option is teleporting to the edge since the endlag on stage(and ESPECIALLY if you accidentally teleport an inch off the ground or so) is a death sentence most of the time)

 

[MagiusNecros]

So i've found another "lovely" quirk about mewtwo. That little boost you get from confusion in the air? you can't snap onto the ledge with it at all even when you're right next to it youll just slide down. So essentially mewtwo recovery is even more linear and punishable.(since 99% percent of the time when knocked far back your only viable option is teleporting to the edge since the endlag on stage(and ESPECIALLY if you accidentally teleport an inch off the ground or so) is a death sentence most of the time)

I can explain this! Confusion throws out a reflect box for about a second and so Mewtwo won't grab the ledge. You have to use Teleport to grab. It's dumb.

Might see if throwing out an aerial makes him autosnap to the ledge in a bit.

Edit: None of his aerials will autosnap and if you already used your 2nd jump you have to use Teleport or die.

 

[Nobie]

I can explain this! Confusion throws out a reflect box for about a second and so Mewtwo won't grab the ledge. You have to use Teleport to grab. It's dumb.

Might see if throwing out an aerial makes him autosnap to the ledge in a bit.

Edit: None of his aerials will autosnap and if you already used your 2nd jump you have to use Teleport or die.

Most characters' aerials don't autosnap. This isn't some unique flaw exclusive to Mewtwo. Most characters also don't have the luxury of a quick teleport that can go straight to the ledge. That's not really a weakness.

What IS a weakness is the bizarre ledge sliding mechanics that cause Mewtwo to selfdestruct, or the fact that its ledge getup animation is bizarrely more vulnerable than others'.

 

[ShinnyMetal]

Main problem I have with mewtwo is the hitbox effects for his attacks aren't what they appear to be. It hurts the mewtwo player.

On the bright side future patches will probably buff mewtwo more then nerf him.

you kidding? Sakurai nerfed charizard...CHARIZARD! It wasn't much but still...wth

I do hope so because I reeeeaaalllllyyy want to like MewTwo
(he also nerfed link....for some reason. They didn't fix him, just nerfed)

 

[chaosmasterro]

A few things, his height makes it so you almost always have to full hop to hit an opponent with an aerial. Making most of our aerial approaches really unsafe on shield.
As much as I love his MJ "Thriller" down smash, in a game where your opponent is roll happy we have a very limited choice in what we can do when our opponent is behind us.
Teleport is very wonky and unsafe especially if we can't act out of it or have a hitbox out of it, (maybe with customs but I'm sure we are going to have even less range with it). I know it's a recurring thing, but Teleport characters should be able to turn around during the end of the animation. I would be able grab more ledges underneath the stage if I was able to turn around in the opposite way that I was going.
Grabbing small people is a pain.
Confusion's grab command properties are just unsafe for any follow up on hit confirmed.
U-tilt is just risky because the hitbox that we may get is really random.

If these small things were fixed I wouldn't really care about his weight because I understand how he was meant to play. He's a psychic type which translates to Esper in JP which translates to magic, and magic characters are notorious for their strong offense and sub par defense.

 

[Paxadin]

If these small things were fixed I wouldn't really care about his weight because I understand how he was meant to play. He's a psychic type which translates to Esper in JP which translates to magic, and magic characters are notorious for their strong offense and sub par defense.

EDIT: to clarify, this is only what I personally feel when I use him compared to the other characters I tend to play as.

I highly agree with you, but it still really makes you wonder if they even tested him or we're the ones testing him.
I'd be fine with him having a "strong offensive"... if he had one, he's already sub par played defensively imo.

• He has a huge problem with killing opponents outside of Up-Smash when it finally decides to connect.
• He has trouble racking up damage since he can't true combo worth anything (And all his "combos" are easily escaped).
• His moves are slow like mid-heavy characters and yet do less damage than those same characters.
• The range on all his smashes are very poor on top of having wonky hit boxes on his aerials that whif more than not (the 2nd jump really doesn't help).
• 2 of his Specials aren't worth anything. Confusion leads to nothing except a foot in 's face and Disable is WAY too situational to be used (and let's not forget to mention that it goes above some characters).

I main , she's a magic user, and yet she's heavier, smaller, has better come back options and in my opinion, is stronger than Mewtwo.
I've tried maining Mewtwo these past few days, and I just can't use him. I lose hard to friends that I can usually 2 stock.
Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy using him, and I'll still be using him, but never competitively.

 

[LimitCrown]

How else will they be able to make Disable more useful than it already is? It stuns opponents, allowing you to easily deal a lot of damage to them if the move connects, and the amount of time that they're stunned is dependent on the amount of damage that they have already sustained. They could have made the move be able to affect characters whether they're facing you or not, but then the move would be too good.

 

[GanonPawnch]

Has anyone here seen FOW play Mewtwo? So far he's amazing with him imo, and he also believes atm Mewtwo is somewhere in high tier. I just love seeing FOW play Mewtwo, just the way he pivots and uses his aerial movement for the mindgames is magical lol. And don't get me started on that pivot shadow ball that recoiled him behind his opponent into an F-smash, that brought a tear to my eye lol.

As for me, I think Mewtwo is at least mid-tier, although, talking tiers this early in his release feels stupid to me.

 

[Paxadin]

How else will they be able to make Disable more useful than it already is? It stuns opponents, allowing you to easily deal a lot of damage to them if the move connects, and the amount of time that they're stunned is dependent on the amount of damage that they have already sustained. They could have made the move be able to effect characters whether they're facing you or not, but the move would be too good.

I think the problem is that you lose one Special in your artillery because of how situational it is, not the power of the move itself.
I would gladly switch it with another custom potentially more useful if he had one.

 

[chaosmasterro]

How else will they be able to make Disable more useful than it already is? It stuns opponents, allowing you to easily deal a lot of damage to them if the move connects, and the amount of time that they're stunned is dependent on the amount of damage that they have already sustained. They could have made the move be able to affect characters whether they're facing you or not, but then the move would be too good.

I'm not too sure, how they can make disable any better, the only thing I can think of is that it can hit through shields. Other than that I don't have high hopes for his custom variations of it. I really hope that Mewtwo's customs get the Palutena and Mii fighter treatment for his customs but I don't know.

 

[SleuthMechanism]

I think the only way to make disable better is to replace it with literally anything else.

 

[GanonPawnch]

I think the only way to make disable better is to replace it with literally anything else.

What? Disable is amazing, one read and they're dead at 80%. It's a perfect high risk, high reward move, and it's unique which is always a plus.

 

[Paxadin]

What? Disable is amazing, one read and they're dead at 80%. It's a perfect high risk, high reward move, and it's unique which is always a plus.

Many characters also have this same, "High risk, high reward" type of move.
Take Zelda for example, I can use Elevator to kill at about 60%-80%. It requires me to combo into it, or to read the person.
If I whif, I'm stuck in free fall.

But it also functions as a great way to come back, as a great way to approach, and kill offstage.

 

[SleuthMechanism]

^this, pretty much. honestly, it should stun in the air too so it has more utlity and double as a situational edge gaurding tool.

 

[Psyruby]

EDIT: to clarify, this is only what I personally feel when I use him compared to the other characters I tend to play as.

I highly agree with you, but it still really makes you wonder if they even tested him or we're the ones testing him.
I'd be fine with him having a "strong offensive"... if he had one, he's already sub par played defensively imo.

• He has a huge problem with killing opponents outside of Up-Smash when it finally decides to connect.
• He has trouble racking up damage since he can't true combo worth anything (And all his "combos" are easily escaped).
• His moves are slow like mid-heavy characters and yet do less damage than those same characters.
• The range on all his smashes are very poor on top of having wonky hit boxes on his aerials that whif more than not (the 2nd jump really doesn't help).
• 2 of his Specials aren't worth anything. Confusion leads to nothing except a foot in 's face and Disable is WAY too situational to be used (and let's not forget to mention that it goes above some characters).

I main , she's a magic user, and yet she's heavier, smaller, has better come back options and in my opinion, is stronger than Mewtwo.
I've tried maining Mewtwo these past few days, and I just can't use him. I lose hard to friends that I can usually 2 stock.
Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy using him, and I'll still be using him, but never competitively.

Okay, first point, I find that mewtwo has a much easier time obtaining the kill than other characters. He has a bunch of low risk kill moves that all can be used in several situations to allow mix ups. Second point and Third Point combined, Utilt and Dtilt have MANY true combos at many percents and you cant' easily DI out of them. 4th point, the range on all his smashes is excellent, his Fsmash has Captain Falcon's Elbow of range with the disjoint(which is safe on shield), Down Smash has more range than Fsmash and low endlag to the point that it is safe on dodge, and Usmash has amazing vertical range and can suck opponents on the ground into it. Confusion isn't' useless, it just requires a read to reflect projectiles and doubles as a bait command grab so you can shield punish or chase after them, and having one nearly useless move is nothing special in this game.

 

[GanonPawnch]

Many characters also have this same, "High risk, high reward" type of move.
Take Zelda for example, I can use Elevator to kill at about 60%-80%. It requires me to combo into it, or to read the person.
If I whif, I'm stuck in free fall.

But it also functions as a great way to come back, as a great way to approach, and kill offstage.

You're acting like I said other characters don't have high risk, high reward moves lol, i just meant the move itself is unique in what it does and how you do it. (Stunning them from facing them, them getting dazed for a free smash attack or grab etc)

Comparing Zelda's move to it was pretty random.

 

[Johnny Heart Gold]

I

On the plus side, he works really well against projectile users, considering the fact that Shadow Ball goes through most projectiles, and he even has a reflector. Shadow Ball works really well for breaking shields/pivot specials. His jab into grab is one of the best things about him, and can be used for so many mix-up. Multi jab beats out a lot of moves, and has good range. Nair works well offstage, and can be used to drag your opponent down/kill them. Down throw is great for mix ups and can sometimes even lead to a kill with a strong read. Back throw did get nerfed, but I think it's more of the dev team adjusting him towards Smash 4 than them just nerfing that move just for the heck of it.

Mewtwo is more of a patient character, which is really the same playstyle he had in Melee. The way I see it is he is just Melee Mewtwo but better, which is great to me. I can say without a doubt that you guys aren't putting in enough effort to master him/use him effectively. He just takes time.

Dude I ***** a lot of megamen and robins!!! he is the anti Rosalina, megaman and more