lilinuyasha
Smash Apprentice
What exactly is ledge canceling? I'm smashologically ********. How does one do it, exactly?
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Mewtwo combo & tech sharing thread
- Thread starter theflaminggamer
- Start date
simpleglitch
Smash Apprentice
I will admit, I'm digging that AD->FAir.
MisterCTM
Smash Apprentice
It is when you land on a platform/the edge of the stage such that you enter the teetering animation. This will cancel all of the things instantly (and by that I mean landing lag. In past games you could also taunt cancel by running, then taunting after crouching to stop the run, and you could slide such that your momentum carried you to the ledge and you canceled the taunt. Top mindgame starts. Idk if it works in sm4sh). It's pretty good in this game
lilinuyasha
Smash Apprentice
Thanks for not being a complete **** to me about asking that.
So what, i just angle it towards the edge and pray for the best?
Gr4pefru1t
Smash Apprentice
He only came out yesterday, and for you to think that there'd be something that organized? That's just absurd.Man we really need some sort of centralized list of stuff we've found out like this? We're hardly finding any new stuff, it's just people who keep repeating known stuff that they've just found out..
Not trying to bash anyone who has done this, all the information that has found out about M2 is cluttered all over the place. It just is super annoying having like 100 posts where 85 of those posts are repeating well known things by now...
MisterCTM
Smash Apprentice
Yeah man it's all good. My philosophy is that I'll for sure tell people how to do AT because you can't expect everyone to know AT. However if someone asks me how to do like an ftilt or something I'm not gonna be as nice lol...
Ehh I'm probably not the best person yo ask that. And in any case, there is no reason to edge cancel it. If you teleport onto the ground it has hardly any landing lag. I'd say just do that.
MisterCTM
Smash Apprentice
This shows how incredibly lazy this community seems to be.
Yes, I do expect that, or at LEASTfor someone to try. I know I will be later tonight when I can. And, again showing lazyness, look at how many people are trying to pass off jab -> grab or sideB -> fsmash/dsmash as something new (and the latter as something that actually works)! This should not be happening. People are just too lazy to look **** up before trying to say it's new stuff. It would be one thing if something had been said once previously in like a non-stickied thread, but these stuff have been discussed so many times on here and on reddit and on Facebook groups and on YouTube. Like, c'mon, just do your research guys.
(Buddha)
The Old Chap
You could have asked "How?" Also the "COMBOS" I did in training mode, were online, for glory. And when people hit someone with another attack is succession, they consider it a combo because in traditional fighting games, two hits that someone did / cannot block are considered combos. Again, please do not decry me, and send me a conversation and tell me to check my facts.
SirroMinus1
SiNiStEr MiNiStEr
Yes pretty much.
The main thing with Mewtwo Edge cancel is if you really put in the time practicing it maybe you can get it 100% of the time. But i've suicide quite often trying to do it in training. or maybe im just bad at it lol
MisterCTM
Smash Apprentice
Bro he is right and you are wrong dude. Maybe if you read around you'd find that uh people have actually, you know, tested this stuff. SideB does not combo into anything at any percent on any character ever. Your opponent can act out of it before you can hit them, however you can shield it. Now stop whining c'mon you're the one that's wrong here not him, don't ***** at him.
(Buddha)
The Old Chap
How many times do i have to say it? Send me a message... Anyway... I said it is not a actual combo. In case you have not noticed I never said that the set up is 100% guaranteed. Please read this. "when people hit someone with another attack is succession, they consider it a combo because in traditional fighting games, two hits that someone did / cannot block are considered combos." Even if the setup was a guaranteed it does not have to be a true combo. So... READ. You could also stop whining about me and...SEND ME A MESSAGE.
MisterCTM
Smash Apprentice
Warning Received
Why the hell would anyone send you a message to tell you you're wrong. It isn't anyone's fault that you don't want to be publically called out. No one is going to bend to your will because you're a crybaby.
And no you straight up said that it worked on people on for glory when someone called you out for your being wrong. There is nothing wrong with being wrong, but you have handled this so piss-poorly that you've made yourself look pretty immature (edit: which I did myself too :/)
Also lol wtf does "even if the setup was a guaranteed it does not have to be a true combo"? Uh if the setup was guarenteed it is a true combo what are you talking about. Do you play smash? You understand how this game works yes? We're not talking about traditional fighters here (which, by the way, since you said that sideb to [whatever] was a true combo in "traditional fighting games," you're straight up wrong because IT'S ESCAPABLE), we're talking about smash.
Okay lets break down your quote there that you ever so much want me to READ (I can tell you desperatly want that because you capitalized it).
"when people hit someone with another attack is succession, they consider it a combo because in traditional fighting games, two hits that someone did / cannot block are considered combos."
LOL WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT.
Okay so are you really saying that you're definding your saying that Mewtwo's sideB to [anything] is a true combo by saying that in "traditional fighting games" a true combo are two hits that someone cannot block?? BRO THE POINT WE ARE TRYING TO TELL YOU IS THAT SIMPLY ISN'T TRUE IT CAN BE BLOCKED TECHNICALLY.
Edit: Sorry for the insults
I was fired up from stuff off the internet and then seeing your post made me even more fired up. I still stand by the points I made though
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Not_Indigo
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2015
- Messages
- 18
- NNID
- Same as username
On topic, I've found that you can mix up throws if you have a fully charged shadow ball by doing back throw -> SH neutral B. Throws them away, then the shadow ball glide lets you chase them easier. If it isn't expected, you can get a followup aerial on them fairly easily.
MisterCTM
Smash Apprentice
Damn man that shadow ball glide has so many uses on just day 2 imagine all the uses we'll figure out for it on day like 500
Captain Justice
Smash Cadet
There are a few basic Mewtwo guides out (http://smashboards.com/threads/basic-mewtwo-guide.399121/unread, and http://smashboards.com/threads/mewtwo-techs-and-approach.399307/, for example). If someone has time, it would be very nice if they could consolidate this information into a single guide.Man we really need some sort of centralized list of stuff we've found out like this? We're hardly finding any new stuff, it's just people who keep repeating known stuff that they've just found out..
I would, but I just don't have time...
(Buddha)
The Old Chap
Yeah, I am immature for trying to defend my honor.Why the hell would anyone send you a message to tell you you're wrong. It isn't anyone's fault that you don't want to be publically called out. No one is going to bend to your will because you're a crybaby.
And no you straight up said that it worked on people on for glory when someone called you out for your being wrong. There is nothing wrong with being wrong, but you have handled this so piss-poorly that you've made yourself look pretty immature (edit: which I did myself too :/)
Also lol wtf does "even if the setup was a guaranteed it does not have to be a true combo"? Uh if the setup was guarenteed it is a true combo what are you talking about. Do you play smash? You understand how this game works yes? We're not talking about traditional fighters here (which, by the way, since you said that sideb to [whatever] was a true combo in "traditional fighting games," you're straight up wrong because IT'S ESCAPABLE), we're talking about smash.
Okay lets break down your quote there that you ever so much want me to READ (I can tell you desperatly want that because you capitalized it).
"when people hit someone with another attack is succession, they consider it a combo because in traditional fighting games, two hits that someone did / cannot block are considered combos."
LOL WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT.
Okay so are you really saying that you're definding your saying that Mewtwo's sideB to [anything] is a true combo by saying that in "traditional fighting games" a true combo are two hits that someone cannot block?? BRO THE POINT WE ARE TRYING TO TELL YOU IS THAT SIMPLY ISN'T TRUE IT CAN BE BLOCKED TECHNICALLY.
Edit: Sorry for the insults
1. It does work on for glory. I have done it.
2." even if the setup was a guaranteed it does not have to be a true combo"-This means that just cause moves can follow up and have no chance of escaping, does not mean the attacks are true combos.
3. The traditional fighting games-Games like street fighter existed before smash, many people refer to many attacks done in succession a combo because the older fighting games usually have combos that happen do to having 2 hits attack in succession.
Dude, we both need to calm down, for reasons i will not tell, i seriously prefer a message...But these arguments spawned because we had differences. So, yeah I answered questions for you and told you what i meant.
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MisterCTM
Smash Apprentice
Lol are you serious what honor are you trying to defend? You are wrong, end of discussion. There is no honor in trying to prove you're right when you're objectively wrong.
1. Again what the hell is your point with thiss one? Yeah sure and I can do it on my friends who don't play competitively. That does not change the fact that it is not a true combo.
2. If your opponent can not get out of the attacks it is a true combo. End. Of. Discussion. That is what a true combo is in smash. Of you hit your opponent multiple times by making good reads that is called a "string," not a combo (technically, but they are still generally referred to as a combo)
3) Your point of trying to to compare traditional fighting games' definition of a combo with a Smash Bros. combo is a really awful point because they are such different games dude. The point is invalid. Street Fighter combos and Smash combos are not the same thing.
No dude you're straight up wrong that's why this "arguement" happened.
Chiroz
Tier Lists? Foolish...
Stop posting please.
I care very little for people who only care about their "fame" and being the one to "discover things" instead of actually teaching or learning.
I post an explanation of WHY you are wrong because YOU posted something wrong. I wasn't decrying you I was merely correcting something that was wrong. Nowhere did I say anything about you. You think you need to defend your "honor" because for you it's more important to be "
Would you like it if you read something and believed it to be true and NO ONE corrected it because they "private messaged" the guy telling him he is wrong so now the only information there is is wrong information??
Get your ego out of the way and understand that the point of these thread is to inform, not to look good in front of others. There's no "honor" to defend, there are only ideas and some of those ideas are wrong. When someone corrects a wrong idea the meta evolves and everyone learns something, except when some guy comes along and when one of his ideas gets proven wrong, instead of learning from it, he gets offended because he believes it's more important for him to look like a "pro" in front of others than for him to give others a learning experience by looking like someone who'se just getting the hang of Mewtwo (Something we all are, no one knows **** about this character yet anyways!). He's ashamed of looking like he made a mistake because he won't look like a pro.
Until you can figure all of this out, do not post again please.
And no, combo and string are 2 different things. Also they can in fact block your "combo", they just didn't because they do not know any better. If I do a 0-Death on a non-moving opponent should I call it combo? Maybe, because of how the terminology is used in other fighters, but I shouldn't go around telling everyone else that it's something it isn't or implying it can be used in a way it can't.
And I should specially NOT stop those who are more informed of correcting me if I made a wrong/mistaken statement. Otherwise all I am doing is confusing other readers and learning nothing for myself.
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lilinuyasha
Smash Apprentice
(Buddha)
The Old Chap
I did not even read all of this. I was coming back to say... Any D-tilt combos?
I've been using the Shadow Ball to slide places into smash attacks and grabs, sometimes even off stage fairs. I feel like it's very gimmicky, but it does work. It's just best not to do this against opponents with projectiles, because they can interrupt.
(Buddha)
The Old Chap
I will test that, sounds like a wave dash... Mewtwo dittos = shadow ball reflect.
Captain Justice
Smash Cadet
There have been some pretty nice guides posted that may help with testing:
@proxibomb made a nice starter guide here:http://smashboards.com/threads/basic-mewtwo-guide.399121/#post-19003827
@ckrocker has posted a guide with some more techniques and approach options: http://smashboards.com/threads/mewtwo-techs-and-approach.399307/
@Xpinkbean made a guide on using side b:http://smashboards.com/threads/using-mewtwos-side-special-effectively.399290/#post-19003374
I point out the side b guide because I would like to know if anyone has any tricks like this for disable. All I have is the grab release->disable combo I discovered, and that isn't even gauranteed.
@proxibomb made a nice starter guide here:http://smashboards.com/threads/basic-mewtwo-guide.399121/#post-19003827
@ckrocker has posted a guide with some more techniques and approach options: http://smashboards.com/threads/mewtwo-techs-and-approach.399307/
@Xpinkbean made a guide on using side b:http://smashboards.com/threads/using-mewtwos-side-special-effectively.399290/#post-19003374
I point out the side b guide because I would like to know if anyone has any tricks like this for disable. All I have is the grab release->disable combo I discovered, and that isn't even gauranteed.
D-tilt->Up-tilt has a lot of followups, and is gauranteed at low percents with proper spacing.
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ES. Dinah
Smash Ace
I need some help with Mewtwo. I've been doing side b to up smash at higher percents and shadow ball. I can't seem to use anything else. Any way to abuse his aerials better? He is really good. I won lots of matches on ranked tonight but I don't think he is replacing Rosalina.
You may want to try it in Training Mode before doing so against actual opponents, just so you can get a feel of how far you'll slide.
If you like Rosalina a lot, I wouldn't trade her for Mewtwo. You could do what I'm doing and second him if you like him a lot, but after having invested so much time into your main, I don't think it's worth switching unless you planned on maining Mewtwo from the beginning. A lot of his aerials seem mediocre. His safest ones are probably nair, bair, and uair. Other than that, his fair is really short in range, and because he's floaty, he jumps too high with it, even if you attempt a short hop. It's good for killing when you need to. It's also good when your opponent is in the air. I found myself having trouble against Shulk and Link, so implementing Shadow Ball, charged or uncharged, is something you may want to use, just to force your opponent to block or dodge so you can follow up with other attacks.
With all that said, d-tilt is one good way of poking and potentially knocking your opponent into the air, thus allowing you to use your aerials. He's still a fresh character, so not everything has been figured out for him. People are really trying to find ways of working around his limitations, which, unfortunately for a recent character, is disappointing.
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Enoki
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2015
- Messages
- 81
- NNID
- Enokikone
Random tidbits of info: Teleport only autosnaps to the ledge once. To get the autosnap back without going onstage, simply complete most of a double jump or any move besides airdodge.
Also, confusion regains its momentum boost every time you grab the ledge.
These two things combine nicely, meaning Mewtwo can repeatedly chase his opponents offstage if he's careful, seeing as how he can recover from the corner of the blastzones thanks to confusion.
Also, confusion regains its momentum boost every time you grab the ledge.
These two things combine nicely, meaning Mewtwo can repeatedly chase his opponents offstage if he's careful, seeing as how he can recover from the corner of the blastzones thanks to confusion.
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KaptenFullkorn
Smash Journeyman
I skipped all the salty messages about Side B, so if this was covered in your discussions just disregard this. I think we all know by now that many characters have the option to do an aerial when you have commandgrabbed them. However when i watched Ninjalinks stream yesterday they were trying some of our options after a side B. It looks like the safest option (except shield for their aerials ofc) is an upwardangled f-tilt. Im not sure if it was a true combo, or if its quicker than all characters Aerial option. But it is quicker than several characters aerials. If this leads to an aerial, or another setup for us mewtwos im not sure, havent tried it much.
TLDR:
It seems that following a side b with an upwardangled f-tilt might be our safest attackoption after the commandgrab.
TLDR:
It seems that following a side b with an upwardangled f-tilt might be our safest attackoption after the commandgrab.
Chiroz
Tier Lists? Foolish...
I think U-Tilt is faster and safer too. All characters can still jump or dodge it. I will try to make a thread about Side-B and each character's options against it and how to get around them once more information is out there.
Honestly I think this thread should be closed and discussion should continue on the stickied thread as many questions being asked here are already answered on that thread anyways. I made a mini guide on both U-Tilt and D-Tilt and what combos and what can be followed up on in that thread too.
Right now I don't really ever use F-Tilt, ever. It's the slowest of the 3 tilts, doesn't allow for any combos and I am not even sure it if has more range than D-Tilt or U-Tilt (I assume it must have more range but it seems to be very minimal as I can't tell at "eye" comparison). So I don't see any real reason to use it right now except as a "get out of my zone" tool against rush down chars, and even then I think D-Tilt to aerial is probably better.
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MisterCTM
Smash Apprentice
Hmm, I love ftilt :/ I agree that it kinda sucks, but it is a good way to, if you space right, get the opponent off the stage to edgeguard or just get them away to charge a shadowball, which, as we all know, is mega important. Idk maybe different strokes for different folks
Chiroz
Tier Lists? Foolish...
Well, I used F-Tilt at times when at the edge to set up for edgeguards if I am too far away to hit with any of the "combo" hitboxes with the other 2 tilts. I don't think the move is bad I just think the other tilts are better alternatives. I'll try to learn more about F-Tilt in the days to come.
MisterCTM
Smash Apprentice
Dude all his aerials are awesome, they are for sure not even a little mediocore .
Nair is super safe because you can't touch Mewtwo during it - all projectiles I've tried have clanked with Nair lol, that'll for sure be our saving grace in the link and tink matchups - and if you full hop nair it comes out super duper quick and will finish before you touch the ground, thus no landing lag at all, and you can sneak in a fair if your opponent tries to come in to punish Nair's landing lag. Fair comes out super quick and has decently short landing lag. Nair can edgeguard, which is even more effective if you ledgecancel upB on the ledge then drop down with a nair (which is also super hilarious). Nair is pretty safe for approaching and on shield using the aformentioned full hop nair strategy. If you opponent is bad/doesn't react correctly you can actually land with nair before the last hit send them away and you can grab them. This only works if the opponent doesn't react correctly though, so I wouldn't rely on it or go for it too often. Might be useful as a mixup. You can also do like dtilt into nair for some nice damage and utilt into nair (I think that's a true combo, not 100% sure though). Imo Nair is his best move by a decent amount simply for how versitle it is.
Fair is pretty good because it comes out so quick, has a good hitbox, and good knockback that can string into each other at low percents and at high percents can kill. It's pretty safe imo if you know when to use it because of how quick the move is. Also you can short hop -> fair and hit grounded opponents, as long as they aren't jiggs or kirby, you just have to be fast. This may or may not end up being pretty important to the meta, it remains to be seen. Seems pretty good imo. Doublejump -> fair also seems like a good way to chase opponents because of the rising hitbox and how fast double jump is relative to how fast your opponent is going to be moving. Imo it's his second best aerial.
Uair. This move would be godlike if the streak of his tail acted as a hitbox or even a windbox. This, as well as utilt, have such strange hitboxes. Only the tail is a hitbox, which is weird, because there is a streak that goes along with it that makes it look like it's all a hitbox. ANYWAY it's still, imo, his third best aerial. It comes out pretty quickly and has a nice hitbox. Full hop -> Uair will finish before you hit the ground if you don't fast fall, so you can pretty nicely juggle your opponents if you can make a read on (or reactto) their jump. Can kill on a stage like duck hunt if you chase them to the tree at around 100 - 120 on light to medium characters.
Bair. Okay so I'm torn about this move. I LOVE this move for how great of an edgeguarding move it is and how great of knockback it has. But it has that weird streak with the whole "I look like I'm a hitbox but I'm not LEL" thing and that makes me sad. However I'd still say it's a good move. You can drop down -> bair a recovering enemy near the stage and he will get stage spiked if you hit it. You can also use it to cover high recoveries because double jump is awesome. Just gotta learn to time it correctly, but that may just be me. Tied for third best aerial imo with uair.
(Gonna be quick for dair cause I'm running out of time in class to write this) Dair is super fun because you can destroy them if you can get the spike on a recovering enemy. That's super fun. It also has a good non-spike hitbox that will send enemies away and can still kill, especially if you get that hitbox when edgeguarding. The bad things though are that you can't combo into it and the hitbox is so delayed. The hitbox doesn't come out for a little bit so if you wanna hit it you're gonna have to make a good read or time it pretty well. The anti-spike when hitting opponents with it when they are on the ground is pretty nice and I can see you being able to start combos with it. However the weaknesses ovrecome the good of it and imo it's his worst aerial (though still super good, as with all his aerials).
Chiroz
Tier Lists? Foolish...
I really need to test N-Air more and get its properties down but I want to say I've been hit out of N-Air by a Mario using his own N-Air AFTER I had already landed the move. Yea, it was sad. It would mean that every char with a sex kick would basically be completely immune to N-Air.
Also many people are using FF N-Air as a combo starter and I feel (although I have no proof) that the opponent has frame advantage on FF N-Air, which would mean they could probably shield or jab out of it and thus making all these combos non-existent.
DavemanCozy
Smash Photographer
I tested yesterday again. Teleporting grounded is actually slower than rolling. What you gain is more unpredictability and a tad more distance than the roll. What you lose is a few active frames.
I think that Short-hop air-dodging is probably the best alternative over these two in terms of speed. Like with Samus, short-hop air dodging is better than using his sluggish roll: it may cover good distance, but it's very easy to follow by fast characters like Fox, Meta Knight, Yoshi... even Ganon's dash attack can catch him. The best thing about Mewtwo's air-dodge is how it makes him disappear, making him more unpredictable than Samus.
I think that Short-hop air-dodging is probably the best alternative over these two in terms of speed. Like with Samus, short-hop air dodging is better than using his sluggish roll: it may cover good distance, but it's very easy to follow by fast characters like Fox, Meta Knight, Yoshi... even Ganon's dash attack can catch him. The best thing about Mewtwo's air-dodge is how it makes him disappear, making him more unpredictable than Samus.
Chiroz
Tier Lists? Foolish...
Well, not really, unlike Melee air dodges retain momentum and you cannot change it at any point during the dodge so it isn't exactly unpredictable.
Mewtwo's defensive options aren't great which is why he's suffering so much against rush down characters at the moment.
Enoki
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2015
- Messages
- 81
- NNID
- Enokikone
I think the best option is use learn how to better use our aerial movement, but I completely agree that SH AD is better than rolling. It also gives you enough time to throw out a teleport if you really need to get away.
I'm a Yoshi main, and I never roll as Yoshi. So long as you are careful with spacing and know how to take advantage of air dodges, rolling really isn't essential, especially given how most competitive players learn to predict rolling because of FG.
I'm a Yoshi main, and I never roll as Yoshi. So long as you are careful with spacing and know how to take advantage of air dodges, rolling really isn't essential, especially given how most competitive players learn to predict rolling because of FG.
The problem with full hops is that it leaves you open. With a floaty character such as Mewtwo, you do not want to be above your opponent. I use Ness and Samus and they're both floaty, and because of this, they have a hard time getting back onto the stage while the opponent below chases. Short hops are best because you can quickly do things afterwards. I've naired while above my opponent to get back to the ground and the majority of the time, I found myself getting hit right back up. This isn't intentionally landing near my opponents, either, but trying to get away and using nair as a defensive tool.
Fair is short ranged. It can be deadly, but only when you connect it, otherwise going up against a character such as Marth, Shulk, or Link isn't going to cut it. Nair isn't, either. Their attack priority trumps Mewtwo's nair and fair. I don't like uair or bair because of what you just stated. The streak looks like there should be a hitbox there, but most of it isn't actually there. Same with bair. It has good knockback when it connects, but you're left with lag afterwards. I mean, you can full hop all you want against a grounded character, but you're going to get punished if you miss or get your attack blocked. Dair is actually pretty iffy. It's a great attack, but the hitbox on that thing is weird. Sourspotting it knocks the opponent upward and sweetspotting it spikes. That's like one of his best aerials, even with a short hop against those who generally roll.
I don't have a problem so much with how strong his attacks are as I do with how short ranged they are and how none of the aerials auto-cancel.
GaboRJ
Smash Rookie
I'm trying to find ways to combo with down special (disable), and how it works in general. Doesn't do much to opponents in the air and doesn't work when behind an opponent, I've noticed. I've noticed that Mr G&W's buckets fills up to the max with max shadow ball. Anyone found a good stop move for Mewtwo?
Comet7
Smash Lord
for the pivot grab thing, you're not just doing a pivot boost grab, right? i found that the amount of range you gain depends on the frame that you cancel dash attack into grab.
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