Mewtwo combo & tech sharing thread

[HeavyMetalSonic]

There are a few basic Mewtwo guides out (http://smashboards.com/threads/basic-mewtwo-guide.399121/unread, and http://smashboards.com/threads/mewtwo-techs-and-approach.399307/, for example). If someone has time, it would be very nice if they could consolidate this information into a single guide.
I would, but I just don't have time...

I'm currently working on a Mewtwo guide. I've listing as many factors about him as I can aswell as overlaying images showing the inputs. I've got most the footage down, and I HAD done about 3/4 of it, but my video editing software crashed and I lost most of it.

Anything extra I can find I will throw into it. I'll be showcasing every single move, the damage they do, including sweet/sour spots, anything useful about said move (EG: Up tilt combing into Up Smash at certain %'s), potential strings and such. So any interesting facts about him will greatly be appreciated. I don't have the frame data, but I show off every move going into shield to give an idea on ending lag on moves. If there is any frame data anywhere I'll put that in too.

 

[[TSON]]

be careful using disable because it can be reflected by cape and such

 

[Chiroz]

I'm currently working on a Mewtwo guide. I've listing as many factors about him as I can aswell as overlaying images showing the inputs. I've got most the footage down, and I HAD done about 3/4 of it, but my video editing software crashed and I lost most of it.

Anything extra I can find I will throw into it. I'll be showcasing every single move, the damage they do, including sweet/sour spots, anything useful about said move (EG: Up tilt combing into Up Smash at certain %'s), potential strings and such. So any interesting facts about him will greatly be appreciated. I don't have the frame data, but I show off every move going into shield to give an idea on ending lag on moves. If there is any frame data anywhere I'll put that in too.

Up-Tilt combos into Up-Smash at almost all relevant %s. It's just a different hitbox. I made a miniguide on it but the important fact is, both Up-Tilt and Down-Tilt (and possibly F-Tilt) have 4 hitboxes each with its own trajectory, knockback and knockback scaling. One of the hitboxes of U-Tilt true combos into Up-Smash at almost all %s and also can infinite fast fallers (who don't DI downwards on into you) and regular chars who DI downwards and away.

Hopefully you knew this and in case you didn't I would recommend getting a much better feel of Mewtwo before getting the guide out. There's no rush to do all this. I see so many people rushing to make guides and such only to write/show a lot of stuff that's already known, and a lot of stuff that's incomplete or inaccurate. I personally think it's much better to just sit down and get everything down perfectly before starting a guide, but Mewtwo seems to be a character with sooo many intricacies (like tilts having 4 or more different hitboxes, aerials having different angles which combo into different things, side-B and down-B being incredibly misunderstood tools that server great purposes, etc)

 

[HeavyMetalSonic]

Up-Tilt combos into Up-Smash at almost all relevant %s. It's just a different hitbox. I made a miniguide on it but the important fact is, both Up-Tilt and Down-Tilt (and possibly F-Tilt) have 4 hitboxes each with its own trajectory, knockback and knockback scaling. One of the hitboxes of U-Tilt true combos into Up-Smash at almost all %s and also can infinite fast fallers (who don't DI downwards on into you) and regular chars who DI downwards and away.

Hopefully you knew this and in case you didn't I would recommend getting a much better feel of Mewtwo before getting the guide out. There's no rush to do all this. I see so many people rushing to make guides and such only to write/show a lot of stuff that's already known, and a lot of stuff that's incomplete or inaccurate. I personally think it's much better to just sit down and get everything down perfectly before starting a guide, but Mewtwo seems to be a character with sooo many intricacies (like tilts having 4 or more different hitboxes, aerials having different angles which combo into different things, side-B and down-B being incredibly misunderstood tools that server great purposes, etc)

Haha, don't worry, I knew that (Although I made it sound like I didn't... I don't know why I said "Certain %'s" because I use that all the time with Mewtwo), it was just 5AM and I was dying on my feet at that point, so I just mashed my face on the keyboard and hoped for the best. I've only just woke up so I'm still out of it... XD

And I know about the about the different hit boxes too, and which parts of his tail sweet/sour spots, it took me about an hour redoing all the footage so I picked up alot of the stuff in the process. But any small details that I might miss is always welcome, obviously I'm still learning too. Just send me a message or post it on here and quote this post so I see it, which ever works really. c:

 

[XOSugar]

If you can catch someone with a side-b in the air, you can hit them with fair right away. Did it on accident today.

 

[Captain Justice]

I'm currently working on a Mewtwo guide. I've listing as many factors about him as I can aswell as overlaying images showing the inputs. I've got most the footage down, and I HAD done about 3/4 of it, but my video editing software crashed and I lost most of it.

Anything extra I can find I will throw into it. I'll be showcasing every single move, the damage they do, including sweet/sour spots, anything useful about said move (EG: Up tilt combing into Up Smash at certain %'s), potential strings and such. So any interesting facts about him will greatly be appreciated. I don't have the frame data, but I show off every move going into shield to give an idea on ending lag on moves. If there is any frame data anywhere I'll put that in too.

Good on you! But @ Chiroz is right, I didn't mean to rush you if it did. Actually, I was talking about more of a written guide than a video one, since it would be easy to update as new info and ATs are discovered.

 

[Enoki]

Found a Japanese video of Mewtwo's landing lag for his aerials.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lPgexHyLilw
Nair: 19 frames
Fair: 18
Bair: 21
Uair: 16
Dair: 22

In the general impressions thread, I talked about landing uair as a good combo starter, and this kinda cements that. Of all our aerials, uair is so underrated. :3

 

[pikazz]

UAir has a really low knockback base, meaning the opponent will be able to attack mewtwo before he is done with the attack at low %

however, at 80~% it becomes Comboable with Fair / Uair

 

[KaptenFullkorn]

UAir has a really low knockback base, meaning the opponent will be able to attack mewtwo before he is done with the attack at low %

however, at 80~% it becomes Comboable with Fair / Uair

did some combos around them percents today against a friend, dtilt to upair, rising upair to fair / bair. Got to experiment more in the labs with this to see if its valid, but im feeling hopeful! It was satisfying nevertheless!

 

[Psyruby]

did some combos around them percents today against a friend, dtilt to upair, rising upair to fair / bair. Got to experiment more in the labs with this to see if its valid, but im feeling hopeful! It was satisfying nevertheless!

It combos around 75-90%. Anything above that. Dtil makes Uair only hit with the sourspot. I have a table of easy true or almost true combos above.

 

[flying_tortoise]

I was using Mario as my test subject. I'm a little tired, but I was trying to do what was possible with my reflexes without trying too hard as it's hardly worth trying if you have to be frame perfect. The hitboxes that don't account for some of the lower scaling is for the same reason, it's hardly worth trying to go for a hitbox if you have to be frame perfect spacing. I was trying to find practical combos.

ehh can I just say you shouldn't limit yourself or the community of combos because frame perfect seems impractical. If anyone ever finds a great combo like that, they should still post it. Or at least post it and mention that the timing is frame perfect.
Melee is filled with combos that need to be frame perfect, yet ppl still do them so often. Its just practice.
Edit: Not trying to be insulting at all, just saying it seems like useful info

 

[ORVO5]

Guys, I'm really enjoying Mewtwo's edge game. With both a spike (DAir) and a stage spike (BAir) along with his recoveries and jumps, I can't wait until I get my opponent on the ledge/off stage.. I've gotten a good number of kills against midweight characters at around 70% with a stage spike. Most aerial chases set your enemies up for a stage spike, which is awesome..

 

[MagiusNecros]

be careful using disable because it can be reflected by cape and such

Personally only use disable as a hard punish on an opponent using a move that has high endlag. Like Falcon Kick, Warlock Punch, Bowser Bomb, all that jazz.

 

[flying_tortoise]

@ Enoki @Someguyyoulikelydontknow
Thought it would be better to discuss here. The idea was Enoki's and tested first by someguyyoulikeydontknow

ok so for smaller characters like Kirby. The only way you can pull off u-air is to do a reverse falling u-air and hitting him with the base of your tail. At high-med percent you can possibly get it into an b-air.
I looked at the hitbox thread and it said that u-airs hitbox doesn't become active until the tail gets to the diagonal position and it appears right. So as long as you fall with u-air and dont land cancel before it gets to diagonal position it'll hit. You can reverse u-air into an opponent near the ledge and it'll setup for a good edgeguard opportunity bair/nair.
I do like falling u-air -> jab -> grab

 

[perfectedidiot2]

Some interesting notes on confusion.
- Upon hitting an airborne opponent, both you and the opponent will lose all horizontal and vertical momentum
- You can perform it out of short hop fair or bair while still airborne, Mewtwo will bounce a short distance and gain horizontal momentum dependent on the stick, at this height confusion will cancel before Mewtwo lands.
- The most interesting one: reversing confusion in the air (done by changing the direction right AFTER the move has started) gives Mewtwo the FULL momentum boost of confusion in the direction he's facing. This can be done right after a fair or bair to suddenly reverse your air momentum, and it will cancel before landing. Shenanigans.

If I could record in HDMI, I would have some sample videos.

 

[Johnny Heart Gold]

did some combos around them percents today against a friend, dtilt to upair, rising upair to fair / bair. Got to experiment more in the labs with this to see if its valid, but im feeling hopeful! It was satisfying nevertheless!

Dude change your avatar is so gross :S

 

[orochiwolf]

Anyone else doing Up Throw for damage when you land a grab?

Of course, ignoring the situations where throwing them offstage is better, doing Up Throw for high damage and catching landings has yielded great results for me. Not having a second jump vs Mewtwo is a nightmare for the opponent, and forcing that situation in the neutral game seems like a great meta call.

Also, @ Psyruby what are your thoughts for the competitive viability of custom Mewtwo?

 

[KaptenFullkorn]

It combos around 75-90%. Anything above that. Dtil makes Uair only hit with the sourspot. I have a table of easy true or almost true combos above.

As said, i still need to test this out proper before saying its something viable. But i found it doable around 50-65%~ depending on character weights.

Unfortunatly i have to record with my phone, but some visual aids are ALLWAYS good!
edit: Johnny what gives you the right to decide my avatar? shoo shoo!

 

[SafCar]

Anyone else doing Up Throw for damage when you land a grab?

Of course, ignoring the situations where throwing them offstage is better, doing Up Throw for high damage and catching landings has yielded great results for me. Not having a second jump vs Mewtwo is a nightmare for the opponent, and forcing that situation in the neutral game seems like a great meta call.

I prefer using Fthrow for the sheer number of hits. Uthrow I use for kills, especially on Battlefield/Big Battlefield platforms.

 

[Psyruby]

Anyone else doing Up Throw for damage when you land a grab?

Of course, ignoring the situations where throwing them offstage is better, doing Up Throw for high damage and catching landings has yielded great results for me. Not having a second jump vs Mewtwo is a nightmare for the opponent, and forcing that situation in the neutral game seems like a great meta call.

Also, @ Psyruby what are your thoughts for the competitive viability of custom Mewtwo?

Did we get his info about his customs yet? If so, I don't see why he wouldn't be viable to the same degree that most characters are with customs.

 

[Nobie]

I figured something out recently, and it relates to the idea of "double jump canceling" from Melee.

Back in Melee, if you quickly did a double jump and then aerial, it would cause Mewtwo to do aerials close to the ground without rising afterwards.

In Smash 4, you can't prevent the upwards rising motion, but you can use a similar method to attack closer to the ground.

All of Mewtwo's aerials auto cancel, but often times short hopping will cause you to miss a lot of shorter opponents like Mario. However, by tapping jump twice quickly to trigger the second jump and then immediately doing an aerial out of it, this will cause the animation to start off closer to the ground, and Mewtwo will rise while doing the attack. This allows you to land aerials on some characters who might either be too short or require very precise spacing to attack on the ground, such as Mario, Kirby, or Jigglypuff. For example, you can hit Mario with fair at a different distance than would normally be feasible, and you can even hit Kirby or Jigglypuff with the strong part of your back air.

While in Melee the DJC'd aerials could be l-canceled, making the technique's lack of vertical movement useful, I think in this case the rising motion is actually beneficial in certain ways because you don't have to deal with landing lag. Though Mewtwo doesn't like to be above opponents either, you at least can use air dodges and teleport to try and get away, as opposed to just eating landing lag.

I don't have the most precise fingers so I have trouble doing it consistently, but if you go into training mode and just set it to 1/4 speed and try to "jump, jump, fair," as quickly as possible, you can see how Mewtwo's hand practically grazes the floor.

 

[SafCar]

I figured something out recently, and it relates to the idea of "double jump canceling" from Melee.

Back in Melee, if you quickly did a double jump and then aerial, it would cause Mewtwo to do aerials close to the ground without rising afterwards.

In Smash 4, you can't prevent the upwards rising motion, but you can use a similar method to attack closer to the ground.

All of Mewtwo's aerials auto cancel, but often times short hopping will cause you to miss a lot of shorter opponents like Mario. However, by tapping jump twice quickly to trigger the second jump and then immediately doing an aerial out of it, this will cause the animation to start off closer to the ground, and Mewtwo will rise while doing the attack. This allows you to land aerials on some characters who might either be too short or require very precise spacing to attack on the ground, such as Mario, Kirby, or Jigglypuff. For example, you can hit Mario with fair at a different distance than would normally be feasible, and you can even hit Kirby or Jigglypuff with the strong part of your back air.

While in Melee the DJC'd aerials could be l-canceled, making the technique's lack of vertical movement useful, I think in this case the rising motion is actually beneficial in certain ways because you don't have to deal with landing lag. Though Mewtwo doesn't like to be above opponents either, you at least can use air dodges and teleport to try and get away, as opposed to just eating landing lag.

I don't have the most precise fingers so I have trouble doing it consistently, but if you go into training mode and just set it to 1/4 speed and try to "jump, jump, fair," as quickly as possible, you can see how Mewtwo's hand practically grazes the floor.

You could also combine this with Nair early game to rack up damage and, in the case of platforms, juggle them.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Dude change your avatar is so gross :S

I dunno man. Looks pretty hilarious in a good way to me.

 

[ORVO5]

I figured something out recently, and it relates to the idea of "double jump canceling" from Melee.

Back in Melee, if you quickly did a double jump and then aerial, it would cause Mewtwo to do aerials close to the ground without rising afterwards.

In Smash 4, you can't prevent the upwards rising motion, but you can use a similar method to attack closer to the ground.

All of Mewtwo's aerials auto cancel, but often times short hopping will cause you to miss a lot of shorter opponents like Mario. However, by tapping jump twice quickly to trigger the second jump and then immediately doing an aerial out of it, this will cause the animation to start off closer to the ground, and Mewtwo will rise while doing the attack. This allows you to land aerials on some characters who might either be too short or require very precise spacing to attack on the ground, such as Mario, Kirby, or Jigglypuff. For example, you can hit Mario with fair at a different distance than would normally be feasible, and you can even hit Kirby or Jigglypuff with the strong part of your back air.

While in Melee the DJC'd aerials could be l-canceled, making the technique's lack of vertical movement useful, I think in this case the rising motion is actually beneficial in certain ways because you don't have to deal with landing lag. Though Mewtwo doesn't like to be above opponents either, you at least can use air dodges and teleport to try and get away, as opposed to just eating landing lag.

I don't have the most precise fingers so I have trouble doing it consistently, but if you go into training mode and just set it to 1/4 speed and try to "jump, jump, fair," as quickly as possible, you can see how Mewtwo's hand practically grazes the floor.

You can do the grazing with most (if not all) airs though. My favorite is a rising NAir because it racks up damage and if done at the same height can catch opponents off guard. You can then combo into other aerials after the NAir finishes. Air dodging and immediately going into NAir or DAir helps with not being juggled.

My game is eventually getting the opponent towards the edge after 50%, from there Mewtwo's strengths would become even more useful. Shadow Ball if they go flying higher, FAir if they're in the middle and DAir/BAir if they're on the lower area, but of course it's all situational. Point is, Mewtwo is a beast when he has the upper hand.

 

[GaboRJ]

Mewtwo is one of the few characters that gives me the most confidence to be offensive off stage, cause I know he will recover easily. When I see an opponent recovering low and close to the platform, I dash off stage and perform a down air for the spike. If the opponent is low off stage but not close to the platform, I dash off stage and go for a forward air when I get as low as the opponent. His floaty air jumps paired with side special recovery or the momentum of his air dodge really make for easy recoveries. To me, Mewtwo is his best when on the air.

 

[Johnny Heart Gold]

I dunno man. Looks pretty hilarious in a good way to me.

But it looks disgusting I dont like it looks eeewwww he should change it...

 

[flying_tortoise]

Anyone else having trouble using ledge-canceled UpB? Platform canceling is no problem, but when I tried ledge-canceling UpB
I either SD off to my doom or I land right on top of the ledge but dont actually fall off so I can't use nair, which is what I want.
I've watched videos, and I know the distance of where to start the UpB (the distance of rolling from the ledge), and I am holding diagonal to ground toward ledge (so @ a 45 degree angle always). but still can't pull it off anywhere near consistenly. Anything I'm missing? Is the stick supposed to not be at 45 deg? or I should be jumping right before, etc?

 

[CanadianMegaMan]

Is anyone else having a good time with confusion > up tilt? I know it's not a true combo, but I've been able to successfully string them together as one of my go to "get out of my face" combos. It feels like the up tilt hits before their aerial, or at the very least we hit each other.

I was just wondering if anyone knows of characters that can hit mewtwo before the up tilt, without getting hit themselves? The only thing I've seen that gets them out of it is if they jump away, which gives me distance to plan a follow up or charge shadow ball, which was the point of up tilt anyway.

Edit: I've also noticed that it seems like my opponents get hit by a sweetspot in the up tilt if they try to attack, I've even been able to net kills with it ~150%
The sweetspot seems to be roughly level with mewtwos eyes, just in front of his face.

 

[ORVO5]

Hey guys, not sure if this has been brought up yet due to it not being strong, but I just recently realized Disable has a knockback in the air. And Confusion easily combos into Disable. I've been using it off stage when chasing someone. Unfortunately Air-Disable doesn't kill up until the 300%'s but I assume this could be worked into some other minor combos.

Anyway, you guys should try Air-Disable at 999% in training mode.. one can dream...... one can dream...

 

[pikazz]

the Double Jump -> UAir -> FAir combo that was discussed earlier, got now a much better video of it on a falco!

I call it "Rising Claw" combo or "Rising Pika" combo xD

 

[KaptenFullkorn]

the Double Jump -> UAir -> FAir combo that was discussed earlier, got now a much better video of it on a falco!

I call it "Rising UAir FAir/Claw" combo or "Rising Pika" combo xD

I tried to expand on the rising uair to fair a couple of posts higher up, unfortunatly i havent had the time to play much smash the last couple of days. If anyone is still doing their practice runs with mewtwo in for glory, feel free to try the extended combo to see if it is viable, i gave some info about what percentages it works around!

 

[Chiroz]

I tried to expand on the rising uair to fair a couple of posts higher up, unfortunatly i havent had the time to play much smash the last couple of days. If anyone is still doing their practice runs with mewtwo in for glory, feel free to try the extended combo to see if it is viable, i gave some info about what percentages it works around!

I don't think you can extend a combo after an F-Air since in the lower %s F-Air makes Mewtwo lag more than the opponent is in hitstun and once they are at a decent % then the knockback is too big. I have been able to get a realiable true combo setup for this combo though.

D-Tilt -> Up-Tilt -> DJ Rising U-Air -> F-Air is a 4 hit true combo at certain %s.

You can also switch the tilts around depending on opponents position and %. Up-Tilt -> Down-Tilt -> DJ Rising U-Air -> F-Air is also a 4 hit true combo at certain %s.

You can also trade the last F-Air attack for an N-Air ora second U-Air if you want to.



I've also been able to get U-Air -> B-Air (and the true combo set ups) although it's really situational depending on how your U-Air hit the opponent and which direction he was knocked back.

I really like the fact that Mewtwo has real dynamic combos instead of just spamming the same 1-2 move combo over and over again.

 

[LiamMail]

down throw shorthop fair, only works at ~75-95% depending on the character

 

[Chiroz]

down throw shorthop fair, only works at ~75-95% depending on the character

Not a true combo, opponents can act out of Down-Throw before Mewtwo can.

 

[LiamMail]

Not a true combo, opponents can act out of Down-Throw before Mewtwo can.

so it's DI-able?

 

[Chiroz]

so it's DI-able?

The opponent can air dodge the F-Air, or he can hit you while you're short hopping. DIng doesn't help your opponent much as D-Throw doesn't have much knockback to DI anyways.

Basically you always have the time to F-Air your opponent, he can't move away (he can jump away though), but he can just avoid it or attack you before you attack him.

 

[ORVO5]

Have you guys tried UAir followed up immediately by DAir? It's entertaining and have gotten people by surprise with it. Seems like it could be stringed for a true combo because I haven't seen someone on FG or a lvl 9 CPU DI out of it yet.

 

[KaptenFullkorn]

I don't think you can extend a combo after an F-Air since in the lower %s F-Air makes Mewtwo lag more than the opponent is in hitstun and once they are at a decent % then the knockback is too big.

I think you misunderstood me, i didnt mean to follow up the fair but rather the setup into fair, i referenced a post i made earlier, but to make it easier to find ill just reattach the clip again!

The real question in my mind is if you can string an uair to uair fair at lower percents, maybe even dtilt to uair, uair fair as shown in the clip.

I've also been able to get U-Air -> B-Air (and the true combo set ups) although it's really situational depending on how your U-Air hit the opponent and which direction he was knocked back.

I've allso been getting some rising uair to bair while doing the combo i linked, i think that if the first uair is DI'd it could lead to a sourspot uair to bair.

 

[pikazz]

I really love using the Rising Claw combo, I did that on a Captain Falco this time, sadly I didnt save the replay D:

I think you misunderstood me, i didnt mean to follow up the fair but rather the setup into fair, i referenced a post i made earlier, but to make it easier to find ill just reattach the clip again!

The real question in my mind is if you can string an uair to uair fair at lower percents, maybe even dtilt to uair, uair fair as shown in the clip.

the first UAir is a good setup, but sadly the second UAir doesnt make it a true combo. would have love if the UAir end lag got end earlier so we could have a true death combo of 4 D:

 

[Chiroz]

I think you misunderstood me, i didnt mean to follow up the fair but rather the setup into fair, i referenced a post i made earlier, but to make it easier to find ill just reattach the clip again!

The real question in my mind is if you can string an uair to uair fair at lower percents, maybe even dtilt to uair, uair fair as shown in the clip.



I've allso been getting some rising uair to bair while doing the combo i linked, i think that if the first uair is DI'd it could lead to a sourspot uair to bair.

Well in that same post I listed some of the true combo setups that can be used.