Metal Music Stereotype & Background

[GreenFox]

Out of curiosity though, what started this trend, and what do you think the pentagram in standard rock/metal represents?

Black Sabbath started it

 

[DerpDaBerp]

Respect my morals and beliefs as well.

Basically it comes down to respect and empathy.

I don't know much about "business", but owning a label is a business, and I think it's safe to assume making money is your top priority. Morals (if they're even in question here) seem like a secondary concern.

Secondly, what obligation do the bands have towards you that makes you feel they must respect your beliefs? They're the ones you need.

Then again, there's nothing stopping the possibility of bands who's message you can appreciate also making you lots of money.

 

[the melon!!!!!]

1. Good news: those two aren't necessarily exclusive.
2. Listen to what you like. If you don't like the lyrics, I'm sure your denial of a single song won't crush your spirit.
3. Is metal the only genre you listen to? It seems to trouble you.........


and @ the melon: We're not raging about lyrics. We're just debating about their importance. And as far as metal bashing, I'll try not to bash an entire genre, but if any artist has lyrics I find terrible, I'll bash them.

Ok, thank you for clearing that up. It just seemed like the thread was on the way towards an argument on such general bias. Though I'm not that much of a fan of bashing artists at all, at least I can respect the fact that ur doing it the right way.

 

[Miamisportsfan45]

I don't know much about "business", but owning a label is a business, and I think it's safe to assume making money is your top priority. Morals (if they're even in question here) seem like a secondary concern.

Secondly, what obligation do the bands have towards you that makes you feel they must respect your beliefs? They're the ones you need.

Then again, there's nothing stopping the possibility of bands who's message you can appreciate also making you lots of money.

Yes, I understand it's business. But this isn't a client telling you what they want and you getting it done. This requires teamwork and a lot of time. That's a lot of time you have to spend with a disrespectful band that sounds good nonetheless, but stands for disrespectful lyrics and morals you disagree with.

Don't get me wrong, I completely understand where you're coming from. But now I'm asking you to understand where I'm coming from. Think back to school for instance. Think back to the class you absolutely hate because a particular person is in that class. Now, think about spending up to 14 hours or more a day with that particular person, in the industry you love the most.

 

[DerpDaBerp]

Yeah I hear you.

I'm sure the list of people you refuse to sign will be shorter than people you will sign. In fact I wouldn't doubt labels refuse bands all the time for no reasons beyond clashing ideals.

But like I said, I know nothing really of the industry.

 

[Miamisportsfan45]

Ah, well that makes plenty of sense I suppose xD

Hopefully you're right, though.

 

[Masmasher@]

why does it matter streotypes are half truth anyways. When people think of metal they think of screaming and high rifts with small variation as such these traits get categorized just like any other. Its the bands fault for making crappy lyrics. Who wants to take the time to seperate them from the song? lol not me.
Fixed

 

[Luigitoilet]

why does it matter streotypes are half truth anyways. When people think of metal they think of screaming and high rifts with small variation as such these traits get categorized just like any other. Its the bands fault for making crappy lyrics. Who wants to take the time to seperate it from the song? lol not me.
Fixed

try again.

 

[Masmasher@]

Nah that you disagreeing with the thought of the post. clearly you can figure out what that says.

 

[the melon!!!!!]

Ok, Masmasher@, it's def a little bit clearer. But ur still gonna have to elaborate the hell out of that post, cuz the focus of it still just makes me scratch my head.

 

[GreenFox]

I can understand what hes saying perfectly people dont like metal vocals.

 

[DerpDaBerp]

Masmasher

Read a goddamn book and learn grammar.

Your posts make me want to write metal lyrics lol.

 

[Miamisportsfan45]

Masmasher

Read a goddamn book and learn grammar.

Your posts make me want to write metal lyrics lol.

This post wins the thread. Sorry Masmasher.

 

[Masmasher@]

Masmasher

Read a goddamn book and learn grammar.

Your posts make me want to write metal lyrics lol.

The question is do you understand what im getting at?

 

[Miamisportsfan45]

The question is do you understand what im getting at?

I do, and its the bands responsibility to fix there own lyrics or take fault for not doing so. I understand and agree with what you're getting at, but stereotypes do matter in this sense of scenario because they brainwash and possess the minds of people. A genre shouldn't be stereotyped the way it is because every band is different when it comes right down to it.

 

[DerpDaBerp]

I do, and its the bands responsibility to fix there own lyrics or take fault for not doing so.

.........................................well...

Maybe I'm just devil's advocate here, but a band should not avoid a stereotype for the sole reason of it being a stereotype. Like I said before to the melon, a band should not let things beyond their personal preference determine what they sound like. That also means if they want to sound like the stereotypical metal band, they should feel free to do so. If they sound poor, at least they made the decision themselves.

 

[the melon!!!!!]

.........................................well...

Maybe I'm just devil's advocate here, but a band should not avoid a stereotype for the sole reason of it being a stereotype. Like I said before to the melon, a band should not let things beyond their personal preference determine what they sound like. That also means if they want to sound like the stereotypical metal band, they should feel free to do so. If they sound poor, at least they made the decision themselves.

^^THIS wins the thread. It doesn't get much simpler than that.

 

[Miamisportsfan45]

.........................................well...

Maybe I'm just devil's advocate here, but a band should not avoid a stereotype for the sole reason of it being a stereotype. Like I said before to the melon, a band should not let things beyond their personal preference determine what they sound like. That also means if they want to sound like the stereotypical metal band, they should feel free to do so. If they sound poor, at least they made the decision themselves.

Yes, I agree, but ask yourself what's more important. Expressing yourself, having fun, morals, and standing for what you believe or trying to fit a stereotype just to have your music admired by fans that think that stereotypes are the soul of the genre? You tell me.

 

[Luigitoilet]

Yes, I agree, but ask yourself what's more important. Expressing yourself, having fun, morals, and standing for what you believe or trying to fit a stereotype just to have your music admired by fans that think that stereotypes are the soul of the genre? You tell me.

He already said what he thought was important, which was self expression and playing music you like, regardless if it may fit into a cliche genre. He's saying you shouldn't avoid being a generic, run of the mill band if that's the kind of music you truly want to play.

Personally, I think music, and all art should be without morals.

 

[Miamisportsfan45]

He already said what he thought was important, which was self expression and playing music you like, regardless if it may fit into a cliche genre. He's saying you shouldn't avoid being a generic, run of the mill band if that's the kind of music you truly want to play.

Personally, I think music, and all art should be without morals.

Why do you think that though? Out of curiosity.

 

[Luigitoilet]

I think there is a greater "truth" to art and expression if it isn't bound down by a moral code. We should be able to express all of our thoughts and feelings, regardless if they are ethical thoughts and feelings. Otherwise, it's not sincere, and sincerity is one of the most important aspects of art.

 

[gm jack]

Honestly, most of the Satanic stuff is exclusive to Black Metal. I don't listen to Black Metal because I think it's a joke but some of those guys take it really serious, with their white and black face makeup and lyrics from The Satanic Bible and such

1)Definitely not exclusive to black metal. Deicide are about as satanic as it gets and they are solidly death metal.
2)You are aware the Satanic Bible is nothing about worshiping Satan, right?
3)Even though satan is a prominant focus, very few black metal bands are actually satanic. The only real satanists that come to mind are Gaahl (Gorgoroth), Dead (Mayhem, long since killed by the next person on the list) and Euronomous (Mayhem and Burzum, though he isn't any more).

For most, Satan is simply an idea that is used as an symbol of standing against Judeo-Christians. For example, in Norway (whose scene - especially Mayhem - is responsible for a lot of the negativity against the genre), their scene formed based around Christians taking over the country and destroying the ancient religions.


A lot of black metal is far gone from the whole thing. Immortal are one of the classic black metal bands, and really never touch on religion at all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBea_pQGRTs

Some black metal bands just adopt certain parts of the genre and make some truely beautiful music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2J7wt2DSQXo&feature=related
(after the initial heavy section, it does some really cool stuff)



Anyway, as for why metal has a reputation. Because, as a whole, it is an aggressive sounding genre. Therefore, it makes sense for the lyrics to be aggressive as well. Cannibal Corpse just wouldn't be the same if they started singing about philosophical issues (however, the founders of the genre, Death, did for a few albums).

Now, for what you do, simply write lyrics about what you want to. A lot of bands go with the whole brutal thing just because it works and they want to focus on the instruments.

Below I've got a few of the bands I like which sing about things which are decidedly not anit-religion/gore filled etc.


Amon Amarth (sing about Vikings)
Amorphis
Arch Enemy (nothing specific, but a fair bit of slightly punkish attitude in there)
Between the Buried and Me (metalcore, b[/URL]ut still awesome)
Blind Guardian (all sorts, but a lot on mythology and Tolkein)
Cynic (God knows what it means, but it sounds cool)
Death (after the first couple of albums)
Demons and Wizards
Dragonforce
Dream Theater

Right, four letters in and I get 10 bands which I like and are free of your taboo subject areas. Seriously, write lyrics about what you want. It's just the whole religion hating, drug taking and gore loving thing can be cool at time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHhZ2LThpv4

 

[Luigitoilet]

1)Definitely not exclusive to black metal. Deicide are about as satanic as it gets and they are solidly death metal.
2)You are aware the Satanic Bible is nothing about worshiping Satan, right?
3)Even though satan is a prominant focus, very few black metal bands are actually satanic. The only real satanists that come to mind are Gaahl (Gorgoroth), Dead (Mayhem, long since killed by the next person on the list) and Euronomous (Mayhem and Burzum, though he isn't any more).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joke

But yes I concede, you know a buttload more than I on the topic.

 

[Miamisportsfan45]

I agree. Subgenre's define a genre in those sorts of ways. Black Metal is basically the whole dark aspects. But is it all black metal or just most?

 

[Grey Belnades]

I agree. Subgenre's define a genre in those sorts of ways. Black Metal is basically the whole dark aspects. But is it all black metal or just most?

Droogie, it seems there's one genre that suits you...Christan Rock/Metal/Alternative, with this genre you won't have to worry about lyrics, band look, etc.

 

[gm jack]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joke

But yes I concede, you know a buttload more than I on the topic.

It's hard to tell on the internet. Sorry.

I agree. Subgenre's define a genre in those sorts of ways. Black Metal is basically the whole dark aspects. But is it all black metal or just most?

While subgenres are associated with various lyrics themes, none are necessary (unless you pick a genre like porno-grind, which is mostly defined on the lyrics anyway). While some death metal bands sing about killing you in various ways, others will debate the meaning of existence.

There a sub -sub genre (sighs) of black metal known as Christian black metal or white metal. Some people get all elitist at this point with the whole opposite viewpoints, but a subgenre is just a style. Thin, tremolo picked guitar riffs on top of fast double bass drumming with shrieked vocals says far more about the genre than what they sing about.

Just be aware singing about love and squirrels in trees might be a bit hard to pull off.

 

[Miamisportsfan45]

You act as if I'm not into metal or heavy music. I listen to a lot of music. My personal favorite bands are:

Avenged Sevenfold, Atreyu, Modern Day Escape, Killswitch Engage, Escape the Fate, etc.

I mean, look at Killswitch Engage for instance. Listen to them, then go look at their lyrics.

I also listen to bands like Slipknot, too. But I prefer bands with lyric values such as Killswitch Engage. Just an example. But it's not as if I don't listen to Slipknot, Lamb of God, As I Lay Dying, etc.

 

[BrutalXSpawn]

1)Definitely not exclusive to black metal. Deicide are about as satanic as it gets and they are solidly death metal.
2)You are aware the Satanic Bible is nothing about worshiping Satan, right?
3)Even though satan is a prominant focus, very few black metal bands are actually satanic. The only real satanists that come to mind are Gaahl (Gorgoroth), Dead (Mayhem, long since killed by the next person on the list) and Euronomous (Mayhem and Burzum, though he isn't any more).

For most, Satan is simply an idea that is used as an symbol of standing against Judeo-Christians. For example, in Norway (whose scene - especially Mayhem - is responsible for a lot of the negativity against the genre), their scene formed based around Christians taking over the country and destroying the ancient religions.


A lot of black metal is far gone from the whole thing. Immortal are one of the classic black metal bands, and really never touch on religion at all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBea_pQGRTs

Some black metal bands just adopt certain parts of the genre and make some truely beautiful music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2J7wt2DSQXo&feature=related
(after the initial heavy section, it does some really cool stuff)



Anyway, as for why metal has a reputation. Because, as a whole, it is an aggressive sounding genre. Therefore, it makes sense for the lyrics to be aggressive as well. Cannibal Corpse just wouldn't be the same if they started singing about philosophical issues (however, the founders of the genre, Death, did for a few albums).

Now, for what you do, simply write lyrics about what you want to. A lot of bands go with the whole brutal thing just because it works and they want to focus on the instruments.

Below I've got a few of the bands I like which sing about things which are decidedly not anit-religion/gore filled etc.


Amon Amarth (sing about Vikings)
Amorphis
Arch Enemy (nothing specific, but a fair bit of slightly punkish attitude in there)
Between the Buried and Me (metalcore, b[/URL]ut still awesome)
Blind Guardian (all sorts, but a lot on mythology and Tolkein)
Cynic (God knows what it means, but it sounds cool)
Death (after the first couple of albums)
Demons and Wizards
Dragonforce
Dream Theater

Right, four letters in and I get 10 bands which I like and are free of your taboo subject areas. Seriously, write lyrics about what you want. It's just the whole religion hating, drug taking and gore loving thing can be cool at time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHhZ2LThpv4

Thank you,for proving a strong point dude. I believe what you say is very true,there are alot of Black Metal bands arent satanic,and BTW all those bands (except for Dragonforce and Dream Theater) are amazing

 

[Miamisportsfan45]

Thank you,for proving a strong point dude. I believe what you say is very true,there are alot of Black Metal bands arent satanic,and BTW all those bands (except for Dragonforce and Dream Theater) are amazing

Dream Theater's drummer is now assisting A7X, so you can chill with that.

 

[BrutalXSpawn]

No lie,since he is The Rev's idol hes probably a great drummer,but I could'nt get into their music ,thats all I'm saying

 

[Luigitoilet]

Mike Portnoy is one of the best rock/metal drummers alive. Sorry but he puts Rev to shame. Musically, I'm not too keen on either Dream Theater or A7X but I would much rather listen to Dream Theater.

 

[BrutalXSpawn]

Mike Portnoy is one of the best rock/metal drummers alive. Sorry but he puts Rev to shame. Musically, I'm not too keen on either Dream Theater or A7X but I would much rather listen to Dream Theater.

I think if anyone couldve replaced The Rev it shouldve been either Brandon Saller of Atreyu or Jordan Mancino of As I Lay Dying. I deffenitly like Avenged Sevenfold more than Dream Theater.

 

[gm jack]

...

No Dream Theater love? The whole lot of them are fantastic musicians, though I guess you need to be a bit of a guitar nerd to like 4 minute guitar/keyboard solos.

To be really quite pretentious, they have a lot more behind them than most metalcore bands like Ax7. Even putting taste aside, Portney is one of the best all round drummers in metal today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmbayHHUPcA&feature=related

He was definitely a great person to do the album recording.


And Dragonforce are so cheesy they're just fun to listen to. Valley of the ****ed is a classic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3IWGddh3pQ

 

[Miamisportsfan45]

A7X is my personal favorite band, though.

 

[Grandeza]

I really like A7x. Mike Portnoy is a fantastic drummer and it's cool that he's helping out A7X.

 

[gm jack]

I saw Ax7 opening for Iron Maiden, and they really did not impress me. They weren't flat out bad, but they just didn't seem to have anything special. That and the guitar tone was horrific. Fine for the riffs, but for solos, it was ear piercing.

 

[Miamisportsfan45]

I saw Ax7 opening for Iron Maiden, and they really did not impress me. They weren't flat out bad, but they just didn't seem to have anything special. That and the guitar tone was horrific. Fine for the riffs, but for solos, it was ear piercing.

When was this? o_O

You ARE talking about Avenged Sevenfold, right?

 

[BrutalXSpawn]

I saw Ax7 opening for Iron Maiden, and they really did not impress me. They weren't flat out bad, but they just didn't seem to have anything special. That and the guitar tone was horrific. Fine for the riffs, but for solos, it was ear piercing.

I saw em last year dude,theyre nothin to complain about,not gonna lie they can put on a great show.

This year its Lamb Of God,Atreyu,Shadows Fall,Chimaira,Winds Of Plagues,Korn,Rob Zombie,Hatebreed and 3 Inches of Blood. Mayhem here we come!!!! :D

 

[Miamisportsfan45]

I saw em last year dude,theyre nothin to complain about,not gonna lie they can put on a great show.

This year its Lamb Of God,Atreyu,Shadows Fall,Chimaira,Winds Of Plagues,Korn,Rob Zombie,Hatebreed and 3 Inches of Blood. Mayhem here we come!!!! :D

I was at that same concert last year. You were just a lot closer to the stage than I was, and it was an amazing concert. But Papa Roach stole the show by far.

 

[BrutalXSpawn]

Im sure if M.Shadows wouldve done something big they wouldve stole the show,they were capable of doing so.