Data Meta Knight Match-Up Discussion Directory

[Mr.Lee]

Thanks. Will be here ready .

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The Rosalina sub-forum is analyzing Meta Knight again this week. Here's the link to the page if you have anything to contribute.

http://smashboards.com/threads/414439/

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

How do you feel MK does against Cloud? Do you feel he struggles in the neutral? And can Cloud escape the elevator combo?

 

[New_Dumal]

How do you feel MK does against Cloud? Do you feel he struggles in the neutral? And can Cloud escape the elevator combo?

Oh, I think I can help you. Let's go.
I think this MU is harder at the metagame-level/very-high, but not reaches: bad/horrible MU.

What I have as experience about it is that UAir strings are strong here, but it will be hard to kill because of Cloud weight.
If Cloud have Limit, it will be even harder because of the fall speed increase. So.. if you're not gonna get the kill with the Up+B, reset. (Mach Tornado is a great option if you think they're gonna airdodge, catches Cloud perfectly because of his size)

DTilt from the ledge and Nair are very strong as edgeguard, but if you can practice it a lot, I will bet that Dair is godlike (only active for one frame, so this requires practice).

If Cloud have a Limit charged just don't dash attack around since you can die because his high run speed+Limit moves.
Pivot grab is a great option against L.Charged Cloud if the opponent is afraid of the dash attack/d.grab, but if you will die from a L.Cross Slash in the run, just run+shield or jump around.

If you're in a stage with plataforms, tries to space yourself below them, because full hop Dair is quite a bore.
If you run to much for Cloud, he can start to Dair, I think I punished this with run+shield => turnaround S.Loop.

And most important: Accept your rule as a baiter.
I don't think we should create a lot of pression and attack randomly at the neutral in this MU because he is a better punisher then we are and since I (at least personally) don't kill him very soon if a don't get a edgeguard, I die with stupid %'s because of rage + MK weight.
Run around with you shield. Provoke with dash backwards -> instant dash forwards, tries some d.attacks and grabs when you're in low percents. When you think you got a opening, try your best to throw Cloud away and go for a edgeguard. Jump to force him to recover low and land to dat DTilt, DSmash(frame 4 if buffered).
EDIT: Another kill option is DTilt ->S.Loop or D.Cape. Since he raises his falling speed with limit, is easier to put them into this setup around 105~115% with Limit (if you want to play this MU often, I would recommend check this percents right) and is very hard to tech. Usually they don't tech this.

-----------Against players who are not that good with Cloud ---------------------------
I said this is harder in high-level play because usually pockets Cloud's are too confident.
They DTilt into shield (you can punish this with USmash OoS, S.Loop, grab, d.attack sometimes).
They fast fall Uair into Shield (UTilt ->Ladder combo, Utilt-> Nair, just UTilt this option).
They airdodge with fear most of the time (what give us a pretty Bair, following Nair, or Dair)
-------------------------------------------------------------

I think it's a playable MU, maybe 40:60~45:55 at high-level play, nothing absurd.
I'm dividing the cast between my 3 characters so I decided to go Sheik against Cloud instead of MK, but I have a lot of experience on this, and is not very bad.

 

[New_Dumal]

We already discussed Lucas MU ?
I got 5th at a tourney last weekend here in Brazil, but I struggled too much against Lucas at general.
I'm maining MK+Sheik, and I think I will go Sheik every match against Lucas from now on because this MU looks horrible to MK. You can't punish a well spaced PK Fire even if powershielded (not the same as Ness), dash attack and dash grab are very dangerous, it's hard to edgeguard... I just want some info on this.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

We already discussed Lucas MU ?
I got 5th at a tourney last weekend here in Brazil, but I struggled too much against Lucas at general.
I'm maining MK+Sheik, and I think I will go Sheik every match against Lucas from now on because this MU looks horrible to MK. You can't punish a well spaced PK Fire even if powershielded (not the same as Ness), dash attack and dash grab are very dangerous, it's hard to edgeguard... I just want some info on this.

If the Lucas likes to spam retreating PK Fire and you read it, you can dash in and Dimensional Cape. The move has high knockback and does good damage, so it's enough to scare Lucas' players off abusing the option. Once you get them to stop using the move as much, approaching becomes much easier.

The key thing to remember about the Lucas MU is that they want to grab you. All of their substantial punish options come from grabs so you need to learn how to avoid them as well as know what the Lucas wants given the percent. Its not a bad matchup by any means. It's just kind of awkward.

 

[Meatbag]

Also have to keep in mind of jab and zair. Most zairs are hard to space against mk because of how small he is, and jab/d-tilt for Lucas is faster than MK's. MK's disjointed d-tilt should outrange Lucas's.

 

[New_Dumal]

I have problems approaching in this MU because I can't do it by the ground (the Lucas players is quite good on counter my dash approaches with grab) and MK has no safe options to approach by the air.
I did a Dimensional Cape punish, but it wasn't enough to compensate all the struggle I had in neutral. I couldn't even rack enough percentage to the D.Cape become a kill move.
I understood I have the D.Cape option, but it doesn't solve the MU.
I got some Tomahawks since Lucas players, as you stated, want to much to shield grab any MK aerials, but the ammount of times I won neutral was not enough in comparison. Everything would be fine if they couldn't kill us so early and easily.
I feel like I have a hard time approaching and I need to (since MK has no projectiles), hard time adding damage, and is killed easily. I trained to hit the ladder on Lucas, but to do a ladder that actually combo to death you need to hit him with the latter hitbox of the d.attack, something that's very hard to do.
I would be happy to discuss more options on this, I will share anything I discover too.
I think we hardly underate this MU, from what I saw and experienced until now... maybe is 70:30 in Lucas favor.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Diddy, Bayo and Sonic are all far worse MUs and those aren't even 30-70s.

Post some videos of you against a Lucas for better assistance.