Melee Will Return For CEO 2015, Project M Dropped, Smash 4 Likely

[JUSTN]

Powerful? Excuse me? What the **** does "Powerful" mean in this context?

i wrote "popular," cmon dude, read before you get angry

 

[Owlflame]

i wrote "popular," cmon dude, read before you get angry

Alright. I admit. That was my bad. Weird. I never do that. Still wrong though. More people bought brawl than downloaded Project M.

 

[JUSTN]

Alright. I admit. That was my bad. Weird. I never do that. Still wrong though. More people bought brawl than downloaded Project M.

i was talking competitively, but i didnt really specify so i can see why its mistaken. there were more people entering Project M tournaments than brawl ever had. why no Project M at CEO? cuz u cant have too many smash games, i get that, smash 4 and melee on top, no questions asked. but allowing brawl at APEX and not Project M, even though brawl has yet to reach even 80 entrants and Project M had somewhere around 400+ in 2014 is a bunch of Nintendo bull****

 

[Azureflames]

So you're gonna do that thing? "My ideals are different than yours. So I'm going to imply that you're too stupid to talk to." At least agree to disagree on this matter of opinion. I hate people who say "Whatever. I'll just look better if I can call the other person stupid and leave first." Did you not read the other really long and in depth thing I wrote for you?

"I mean. I acknowledge Brawl as a game. I don't know. I think as a game designer I'm just programmed to think spite mods are gross. (Spite mods being mods made because the creator hated the original game. Vs regular mods which are made more for fun.)

I really don't know how to put it. Mods are just gross to me. And yes. Economics in videogames states that mods help. But I'd rather a mod be made with love than made because "**** you Sakurai" You know?

As well. I said it wasn't a complete game. Not that it wasn't a game. If you were to put project M up for sale alone (Somehow if Nintendo let you get the **** away with that ((Surprisingly they wouldn't since it's not only not a full game but because the creators also couldn't be ***** to make their own engine)) without a lawsuit) it would run for a fifth the price because of the time put in and the content that's in it. (All sorts of game modes that don't work for starters. All they did was mod the gameplay of the vs mode.)

I think fans, if they really want a Melee that will last, should make their own game complete with melee like gameplay. That way they don't have to worry about nintendo AND it would be an actual game, rather than a mod made to look like a game that already exists."

Is what it said.

First off, apologies. My reply notification only took me to the last thing you said, which was that one liner i replied to in the last comment. I can respect a thought out response such as this. I made my last comment because i tried to explain a different perspective and only got the same thing you said before in a one liner, with even less detail.

If i came off as condescending, sorry. I guess we'll agree to disagree. You can argue the intentions of the makers aren't so much of a "f*** you im making something better" and more of a "i want a game that i'll like more".

I mean, they just used brawl as a base right? I dont think it started as a mod that was meant to get as big as it did. Was probably just people that wanted to make something they thought was cool and it struck the right chord with a lot of people. Once you get so far into it why would you want to try to start from scratch simply based on principle of making it a "legit mod" and not a "spite mod".

If you already have a base to work off of with brawl i dont blame them for not trying to make their own engine if they didnt have to...Making more work for yourself based on a principle like that is kinda silly to me.

Personally i dont believe it would change the legitimacy of the game at all, but would only eliminate the nintendo controversy. Despite being a mod it's still enjoyable and personally feels leagues better than brawl and smash4, which are both "real games"

 

[Owlflame]

i was talking competitively, but i didnt really specify so i can see why its mistaken. there were more people entering Project M tournaments than brawl ever had. why no Project M at CEO? cuz u cant have too many smash games, i get that, smash 4 and melee on top, no questions asked. but allowing brawl at APEX and not Project M, even though brawl has yet to reach even 80 entrants and Project M had somewhere around 400+ in 2014 is a bunch of Nintendo bull****

I didn't know brawl was at a tournament that project M wasn't in. Though, to be fair, if you were nintendo. Would you support the main game or the mod?

 

[Owlflame]

First off, apologies. My reply notification only took me to the last thing you said, which was that one liner i replied to in the last comment. I can respect a thought out response such as this. I made my last comment because i tried to explain a different perspective and only got the same thing you said before in a one liner, with even less detail.

If i came off as condescending, sorry. I guess we'll agree to disagree. You can argue the intentions of the makers aren't so much of a "f*** you im making something better" and more of a "i want a game that i'll like more".

I mean, they just used brawl as a base right? I dont think it started as a mod that was meant to get as big as it did. Was probably just people that wanted to make something they thought was cool and it struck the right chord with a lot of people. Once you get so far into it why would you want to try to start from scratch simply based on principle of making it a "legit mod" and not a "spite mod".

If you already have a base to work off of with brawl i dont blame them for not trying to make their own engine if they didnt have to...Making more work for yourself based on a principle like that is kinda silly to me.

Personally i dont believe it would change the legitimacy of the game at all, but would only eliminate the nintendo controversy. Despite being a mod it's still enjoyable and personally feels leagues better than brawl and smash4, which are both "real games"

Well I admit Brawl had a couple of non competitive issues. But smash 4 definitely has a lot more going for it competitively. I don't think Smash 4 is gonna repeat what happened to Brawl.

 

[JUSTN]

I didn't know brawl was at a tournament that project M wasn't in. Though, to be fair, if you were nintendo. Would you support the main game or the mod?

APEX has brawl and not Project M, and everyone is pretty much sure that it is Nintendo's fault. now that Nintendo announced that anyone can use their products for fan made projects, i dont see a problem. it is literally just so they can sell smash 4, not to promote brawl, cuz brawl has been at APEX every since it came out. they also didnt announce why, and instead just let the public speculate and kept it a secret, which is an outright insult to the community and any other company would be called out on it

 

[Owlflame]

APEX has brawl and not Project M, and everyone is pretty much sure that it is Nintendo's fault. now that Nintendo announced that anyone can use their products for fan made projects, i dont see a problem. it is literally just so they can sell smash 4, not to promote brawl, cuz brawl has been at APEX every since it came out. they also didnt announce why, and instead just let the public speculate and kept it a secret, which is an outright insult to the community and any other company would be called out on it

I don't feel insulted... Just saying. I like brawl competitive. I actually don't really have a problem with melee competitively (Even if the community can eat a ****.) And smash 64 is really interesting competitively. I love watching these games develop since none of them were created for competitive gaming and yet they're doing it because of the fans learning and using the games. Then project M comes along going "God! Remember Melee!? Remember how unfinished and, consequentially, exploitable it could be competitively? Well lets just make that again in brawl since I don't feel like learning brawl. "

 

[JUSTN]

I don't feel insulted... Just saying. I like brawl competitive. I actually don't really have a problem with melee competitively (Even if the community can eat a ****.) And smash 64 is really interesting competitively. I love watching these games develop since none of them were created for competitive gaming and yet they're doing it because of the fans learning and using the games. Then project M comes along going "God! Remember Melee!? Remember how unfinished and, consequentially, exploitable it could be competitively? Well lets just make that again in brawl since I don't feel like learning brawl. "

that was never the case...they didnt make it cuz they didnt want to learn brawl; they did it because they didnt like brawl, but wanted to expand the melee gameplay with the brawl characters, and then developing its own complete metagame. they made what every melee player WANTED brawl to be. melee was competitive BECAUSE it was exploitable and the only reason 64 and brawl grew was because of how melee grew. the lack of good community decisions and no real leaders caused both of those games to start to fall.

 

[Owlflame]

that was never the case...they didnt make it cuz they didnt want to learn brawl; they did it because they didnt like brawl, but wanted to expand the melee gameplay with the brawl characters, and then developing its own complete metagame. they made what every melee player WANTED brawl to be. melee was competitive BECAUSE it was exploitable and the only reason 64 and brawl grew was because of how melee grew. the lack of good community decisions and no real leaders caused both of those games to start to fall.

When I watch project M. It looks like Melee. It doesn't look like Brawl update.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

When I watch project M. It looks like Melee. It doesn't look like Brawl update.

I always thought of it as a fan-made expansion to melee, since it's nothing but melee mechanics and melee-esque characters.

 

[trash?]

on other news. SF5 will replace SF4 in major tournaments 2 years from now.

Tekken 7 will replace TTT2.

and Smash 4 will be replaced if not Smash 5, by 6 or 7 sometime in the future too.

Such is the truth in competitive FGs. Accept it, adapt and move on.
I can't see why there's so much issue with this.

remember when people were actively campaigning in smashboards for TOs to drop melee entirely in 08 because brawl was the future

lmao

 

[hype machine]

I don't feel insulted... Just saying. I like brawl competitive. I actually don't really have a problem with melee competitively (Even if the community can eat a ****.) And smash 64 is really interesting competitively. I love watching these games develop since none of them were created for competitive gaming and yet they're doing it because of the fans learning and using the games. Then project M comes along going "God! Remember Melee!? Remember how unfinished and, consequentially, exploitable it could be competitively? Well lets just make that again in brawl since I don't feel like learning brawl. "

Melee/pm players can definitely adapt to brawl/smash 4 its just we don't like the game. i played smash 4, i got really good at it and went back to project m after 2 weeks.

 

[RanserSSF4]

Melee/pm players can definitely adapt to brawl/smash 4 its just we don't like the game. i played smash 4, i got really good at it and went back to project m after 2 weeks.

I don't think everyone in the PM and Melee said they don't like it. DJ Nintendo likes it for the teams and 1v1 and plans to participate in teams!

 

[Owlflame]

Melee/pm players can definitely adapt to brawl/smash 4 its just we don't like the game. i played smash 4, i got really good at it and went back to project m after 2 weeks.

That doesn't mean it's bad. Just that you don't like it. Not to mention Mew2King said he likes 4

 

[Banjodorf]

Melee/pm players can definitely adapt to brawl/smash 4 its just we don't like the game. i played smash 4, i got really good at it and went back to project m after 2 weeks.

...I will say that playing PM with my friends on New Year's Eve after so much Smash 4 has made me much less competent at the game. Though large amounts of alcohol might have also been an issue.

Even still, I have found playing PM with Smash 4 mechanics ingrained in my subconcious has been considerably harder. I think I should just play more PM.

 

[RanserSSF4]

...I will say that playing PM with my friends on New Year's Eve after so much Smash 4 has made me much less competent at the game. Though large amounts of alcohol might have also been an issue.

Even still, I have found playing PM with Smash 4 mechanics ingrained in my subconcious has been considerably harder. I think I should just play more PM.

well both Smash 4 and PM are different games that play differently, so it's understandable!

 

[Banjodorf]

well both Smash 4 and PM are different games that play differently, so it's understandable!

Oh, for sure. It's just astounding how much differently they play.

 

[RanserSSF4]

Oh, for sure. It's just astounding how much differently they play.

pretty much agree. PM is more of a Melee clone made by fans and Smash 4 is just different. Granted, you can still play aggressive in Smash 4 since it was buffed, but it can still be difficult to pull off in Smash 4.

 

[ShadyWolfe]

Why can't we have both?

the CEO guy listed his reasons read the post

 

[ShadyWolfe]

If you have been following up on why this smash4/brawl vs melee/pm debate at all
They're just completely different games
If you're good at third strike, you're gonna be good at usf4
If you're good at Tekken 6, you'll be good at TTT2
In those games the fundamentals, at the very least, transfer from one game to another
In melee to brawl/smash4, it just doesnt happen. At competitive play, they're just completely different games

third strike and usf4 is as different as Brawl and melee

 

[Owlflame]

There is nothing wrong with Smash 4 competitively. It has everything it needs to grow and thrive as a competitive game. By the looks of it, the only thing holding it back is that it isn't melee. And if you're a part of the melee community and you support this problem then I ask you kindly to **** off.

 

[trash?]

There is nothing wrong with Smash 4 competitively. It has everything it needs to grow and thrive as a competitive game. By the looks of it, the only thing holding it back is that it isn't melee. And if you're a part of the melee community and you support this problem then I ask you kindly to **** off.

look, I'm sure you think this is an ingenious plan, I'd like to point out that people have already tried your thought process before:

I don't see the Melee scene as sustainable. I think its fun to have as a side tournament if your event is large enough, but otherwise I think we should consciously choose to kill it when possible. Its not a "growth industry" as far as Smashboards is concerned. It can only drain resources away from the real growth product, which is Brawl.

would you like to know how I am well-aware of this statement? because @DoH put it in his signature, and you damn well know he won't let M3D live it down since.

we now have precedent that trying to gut one community to sustain another will break your legs in the long run. if you got two brain cells worth rubbing together, you'll know this isn't a good idea

 

[Narpas_sword]

(Spite mods being mods made because the creator hated the original game. Vs regular mods which are made more for fun.)
.

This is rather subjective.

Nearly any mod i've ever installed is because i didnt like how the vanilla game did something.

Most of those mods were to make the experience of playing that game more fun for me.

 

[JayTheUnseen]

I disagree. I don't aknowledge mods as complete games. No matter how you look at it, something that was made of a morfed engine is a morfed game. Not a game. It's a mod. Not a game. The fact that it's more difficult to play than buying a disc and poping it in my console is proof enough that it's not a game. It's a mod.

So a game on the PC isn't a game because it isn't physical?

 

[JayTheUnseen]

Seeing Project M being dropped out really makes my day.

Thank you.Now I know you are a really spiteful human being.You know what,I like Project M.But I like Smash 4 too!Gasp!
Even if I had to choose between the two,I'd chose P:M!But it wouldn't give me pleasure seeing the Smash 4 fans disappointed!Gasp!

To people saying P:M isn't a game because it's a modded Brawl-What is it then?A movie?A board game?Huh?

 

[LimitCrown]

So a game on the PC isn't a game because it isn't physical?

A mod is not similar to being a PC game. That's also missing the point of his argument.

 

[Narpas_sword]

People saying PM isn't a game are probably not true scotsmen,

If PM isnt a game, then neither is DoTA

 

[TaichiYaegashi]

This community was broken up way before any of this started, and we have nobody to blame but ourselves.

Amen. So much this.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

People saying PM isn't a game are probably not true scotsmen,

If PM isnt a game, then neither is DoTA

I think starbow would be a better comparison since Dota was an entirely different game than the game it modded off of.
EDIT: also, everyone read this article. very important.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Y'know, they could let the people vote for the 2 smashes they wanted in.
At least CEO would've been able to say that the people voted for it and guarantee more attendants. That was really dumb from a commercial view, since I'm sure that at least Smash 4 would be voted enough since it's still new. At the very least, they would be able to blame it on the community if PM got (regrettably) shafted.

 

[JayTheUnseen]

A mod is not similar to being a PC game. That's also missing the point of his argument.

Fair enough.But his point is flawed,as is what he called proof.
What is Project M if not a video game?

 

[drsusredfish]

People saying PM isn't a game are probably not true scotsmen,

Lol i learned about that on idea channel. Great comparison.

here's the vid for others to see
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zzSqL--d_I

 

[LimitCrown]

Fair enough.But his point is flawed,as is what he called proof.
What is Project M if not a video game?

Well, Project M is a mod of a video game, obviously.

 

[JayTheUnseen]

Well, Project M is a mod of a video game, obviously.

Isn't that a video game?

 

[GeNo-BreaKer]

Project M is a mod

And sadly still better than any Smash Bros. game past Melee...

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

What's with the philosophical questions?

A mod of any game is by extension a game unless it takes out the core of what defines a game, such as player interactivity.

Yes, Project M is a mod. Therefore, Project M is a game. And a good one in fact.

 

[LimitCrown]

Isn't that a video game?

Not all mods are video games, and Project M doesn't work without Brawl. It isn't like Project M functions like an entirely new game, either.

To be honest, although I can see why people like Melee and Project M, I don't think it is that great. I also don't agree with the sentiment that a Super Smash Bros. game needs to be like Melee in order to be as good as it or that a game unlike Melee is inferior.

 

[rolfcopter]

Fair enough.But his point is flawed,as is what he called proof.
What is Project M if not a video game?

Project M is a mod

 

[JayTheUnseen]

Not all mods are video games, and Project M doesn't work without Brawl. It isn't like Project M functions like an entirely new game, either.

To be honest, although I can see why people like Melee and Project M, I don't think it is that great. I also don't agree with the sentiment that a Super Smash Bros. game needs to be like Melee in order to be as good as it or that a game unlike Melee is inferior.

Project M is a mod

I won't try to change your opinions.And I agree,a Smash game can be great without being Melee.But Melee had good mechanics,in my opinion, and Project M hones them to a fine point.And again,Sm4sh shouldn't be tossed away because it isn't Melee.

Also,look up video game.By it's definition,Project M is a video game.