Melee Will Return For CEO 2015, Project M Dropped, Smash 4 Likely

[Davis-Lightheart]

I dunno. I would argue it's not really an entitlement thing. After all, Project M is a little more than simply a mod (as I said in an earlier post). The PM community is a bit disappointed because their game has gotten recognition from large tournaments before, but ever since Apex it seems Nintendo has actively discouraged it. While your point that Nintendo is not obligated to 'care' about PM our its community is technically true, it's not too much to expect Nintendo to be accepting of it. Example? Valve and Team Fortress 2, a full-fledged game that began life as a mod. DOTA and Counter-Strike are similar in that regard if I remember correctly. As for Smash 4 being a 'bigger' game to 'bring in more people', while I am willing to accept that this is true, you haven't really provided evidence or elaboration on this point. How can you really say that objectively at this early stage?

And as far as 64 goes, your opinion is legit and I respect it but you really haven't given a reason as to why it's objectively more 'deserving' of tournament coverage. I mean, if it's personal opinion than it's fine. But 'deserve' is a pretty strong word to throw around based on personal opinion.

That said, it does bug me that some PM fans are being so bitter about this, which will solve nothing.

Difference. That was made on an open source machine. Project M involved breaking into Nintendo hardware against company policy. Valve can legally afford to back mods without repercussions, but Nintendo can't even acknowledge Project M's existence. They just have to keep it away from them, or else they have to DMCA it.

 

[CPU-Z]

As a primary PM player this greatly saddens me. I can enjoy hype matches from 64, PM, and Melee. I can't really say the same for Brawl or Smash 4. I understand the need to turn profits, but alienating the PM community isn't exactly fair for us either. Guess I'll have to wait for more Xanadu unfortunately.

It's nice that PM got acknowledged as its own game just like Melee and Smash 4. Provided it is a mod of a preexisting game, but game companies modify theirs all the time. This is just done by a different party. I'll still watch the CEO Melee hype just like APEX 64 and Melee. Maybe someone could do a stream of PM with a large side event. Here's to hoping.

 

[Crome]

Difference. That was made on an open source machine. Project M involved breaking into Nintendo hardware against company policy. Valve can legally afford to back mods without repercussions, but Nintendo can't even acknowledge Project M's existence. They just have to keep it away from them, or else they have to DMCA it.

The only issue PM has legally is the use of Mewtwo and Roy. Even then, it should be legal. As on paper they should be allowed to use anything that is shown in brawl, be it enemy, trophy, or sticker.

 

[ilysm]

Difference. That was made on an open source machine. Project M involved breaking into Nintendo hardware against company policy. Valve can legally afford to back mods without repercussions, but Nintendo can't even acknowledge Project M's existence. They just have to keep it away from them, or else they have to DMCA it.

A very good point, thank you for bringing this to my attention (though I admit I am not as knowledgeable on the legal nuances of this as I would like to be, does soft-modding the way a disk runs via an SD card that can be inserted and taken out of the console qualify as a hardware modification against their company policy?). Regardless, I can completely understand why legally they would need to keep it away from them at Apex. I can also understand why the people at CEO would want to divvy limited resources towards official games. I suppose I'm just expressing my disappointment at the absence of PM from many majors when it was beginning to grow from 3.5. I do acknowledge, however, that it is very likely too early to gage the competitive future of PM from these events so far.

(I'm also expressing my disappointment at some of the childish reactions this has incited.)

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

The only issue PM has legally is the use of Mewtwo and Roy. Even then, it should be legal. As on paper they should be allowed to use anything that is shown in brawl, be it enemy, trophy, or sticker.

It should be... on paper. It involves all the assets of the previous game aside from Roy and Mewtwo, and even then they belong to Nintendo. The problem is though, that it still involves breaking into the machine, something that pirates often do, and Nintendo can't publicly have any support towards that behavior.

I'm sure privately they acknowledge that PM is a good thing for them, but the legal world is cruel.

A very good point, thank you for bringing this to my attention (though I admit I am not as knowledgeable on the legal nuances of this as I would like to be, does soft-modding the way a disk runs via an SD card that can be inserted and taken out of the console qualify as a hardware modification against their company policy?). Regardless, I can completely understand why legally they would need to keep it away from them at Apex. I can also understand why the people at CEO would want to divvy limited resources towards official games. I suppose I'm just expressing my disappointment at the absence of PM from many majors when it was beginning to grow from 3.5. I do acknowledge, however, that it is very likely too early to gage the competitive future of PM from these events so far.

(I'm also expressing my disappointment at some of the childish reactions this has incited.)

No. I don't think they're being sponsored by Nintendo like Apex. I believe that they are mostly kneejerking towards Smash 4 being a new game, and the recent tussle with Apex. They want to get as many newer viewers as possible.

It's not a completely unthinkable idea, but it's one that was lose lose.

I believe on paper it still counts as breaking Nintendo policy about their hardware alterations.

 

[BSP]

But citing "For Glory" as competitiveness doesn't work. They just took a meme "No items, Fox Only, Final Destination" and made it into an online gamemode. While sure they kinda tried, they didn't try that much.

They didn't make the game Melee obviously, but there are clear considerations to the competitive crowd.

• Removed tripping.
• Removed chain grab infinites, jab locks infinites, nearly all infinites.
• Removed planking.
• Removed being able to Airdodge out of hitstun, and by extension removed momentum cancelling which helped with survival, allows for more combos.
• Nerfed auto sweetspot range, and more vulnerability when characters are going for the sweetspot. I can't give #'s, but it's definitely easier to hit people going for the ledge in Smash 4
• Obvious balance considerations with how MK and most of Brawl top tier were reworked and lower tier buffed up.
• A balance patch that attempted to address some issues. Sadly there aren't going to be many more, if any.
• For Glory isn't perfect, but the concept is there. A mode for no items for straight up matches.
• Removed Vectoring and put old DI back in after complaints
• Air dodge landing lag to punish excessive ADs into the ground
• Tips that tell players about teching, b reversing, turn around B moves, Out of shield options, wall jumps, invincibility frames on moves, stale moves, explanation of move priority, SDI, angling your shield, specific fighter moves, etc.

There were some questionable decisions (rolls...), but I think it's ludicrous to say they didn't try much.

 

[totesmagotes]

3.5 is not too popular nowadays (nobody wants to play Project Nerf) . That is the way it is.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you there. Here in Montreal we have a pretty active scene for melee/PM, and generally people like the changes. It got rid of a lot of dumb stuff (like Mario and Lucas's recoveries being too good, and Sonic being able to set the pace of every match, spin-dashing all over the place...) . I've yet to see a nerf in 3.5 that I disagreed with.

 

[Narpas_sword]

I'm gonna have to disagree with you there. Here in Montreal we have a pretty active scene for melee/PM, and generally people like the changes. It got rid of a lot of dumb stuff (like Mario and Lucas's recoveries being too good, and Sonic being able to set the pace of every match, spin-dashing all over the place...) . I've yet to see a nerf in 3.5 that I disagreed with.

Totally agree.
3.5 has made PM more fun by weeding out the **** that just made you cringe.

 

[Auramaniji]

Because smash bros 4 wasn't made for the competitive community.

I've noticed a lot of people saying "SF and Tekken move on to the new game, just learn to adapt" it isn't the fact that we can't "adapt" it's because every official smash game after melee hasn't had competitive elements. Brawl/4 were designed to have a low skill ceiling. Smash has always been the black sheep of the FGC, even when we have our best at the forefront. Having Brawl/4 represent ourselves is showing us at our worst.

PM took a less competitive game and made it competitive. It's a love letter to the competitive community. That's why people are making a big deal. This amazing game is being pushed aside by a lesser game.

You want to know what your amazing game feels like to me?
It was good until you guys came along and extended it far beyond what was supposed to be. Now it's just too much for me to grab the handle of playing because it could take years of practice to actually preform fast movements and twitch maneuvering just to get into it. I learned wavedashing in two weeks just because I constantly crammed information everyday when i'd get the chance to. That's just the start of the game has to offer competitively. I have to learn every little detail about the game offers in this competitive environment that it is so hard to preform these tasks in a real tournament. The skill cap is so ungodly high that by that I may learn some of it, I may be fairly below average by the time I am good at the game. This is the reason why the competitive scene has so many older people within it's ranks, sure you might have younger people like myself that compete in these tournaments, but for the most part I see an endless sea of 20 year olds and above just playing melee. There's no proper casual side of melee, not at all. Only people that have been playing for a LONG TIME.

Smash 4 is built for both competitive and a causal environment, and if it were just like melee the series would just burn into nothingness. The older players would just time out because of age or physical limits while no new players would replace them.

I'm done with melee.

 

[ilysm]

I'm gonna have to disagree with you there. Here in Montreal we have a pretty active scene for melee/PM, and generally people like the changes. It got rid of a lot of dumb stuff (like Mario and Lucas's recoveries being too good, and Sonic being able to set the pace of every match, spin-dashing all over the place...) . I've yet to see a nerf in 3.5 that I disagreed with.

Precisely this. PM 3.5 didn't go around in a killjoy fashion, nerfing characters for the heck of it. The devs cut out elements that were toxic to the meta. Take Ness (my main, so I know this example best, but there are others) for instance. PK Fire used to blow up on shield. That was objectively pretty stupid and got a lot of Ness players into a PK Fire rut. When it was removed, many Ness mains (including myself) were apprehensive to say the least. But looking back on it I'm glad. My Ness game has developed so much since then, past dependence on one projectile that there was previously no reason not to use. I've come to a better understanding of my favorite character's meta because of that decision. Another example I'm less familiar with is the nerfs to Squirtle's side-special. And of course characters like Lucas, who were at worst light-years ahead of the rest of the cast, got cut down to size. I secondary Lucas and I admit he was super ridiculous. I kinda dropped him before 3.5. The nerfs weren't really total nerfs so much as...well, I actually think the PMBR describes it best. 'A leaner cut of competitive gameplay'? I think so, anyway.

 

[Narpas_sword]

This is the reason why the competitive scene has so many older people within it's ranks, sure you might have younger people like myself that compete in these tournaments, but for the most part I see an endless sea of 20 year olds and above just playing melee. .

I laughed when i read that you think 20 year olds are old.

And tournies tend to have more 'older' people because they can afford to travel.

 

[42rockjock]

whether people like it or not smash 4 is hurting the growth of project m 3.5. all these big tourneys are gonna shut down pm if Nintendo keeps supporting smash 4. the sad thing is pm has shown to be a better game than melee and smash 4 in some aspects IMO and its just mod. it really just saddens me that the PMDTs hard work might be for nothing if this trend keeps up. Then again, who knows? brawl was bigger than melee for a while when it first came out so we might see a resurgence of project m in the future. only time will tell i guess.

 

[Crome]

They didn't make the game Melee obviously, but there are clear considerations to the competitive crowd.

• Removed tripping. Not even casuals liked tripping.
• Removed chain grab infinites, jab locks infinites, nearly all infinites.
• Removed planking. While also removing a huge part of the meta, edge guarding. The recoveries would be a lot more tolerable if edge trumping didn't exist.
• Removed being able to Airdodge out of hitstun, and by extension removed momentum cancelling which helped with survival, allows for more combos. You can airdodge out of tumble, which makes it hard to consistently tech. You're right, though.
• Nerfed auto sweetspot range, and more vulnerability when characters are going for the sweetspot. I can't give #'s, but it's definitely easier to hit people going for the ledge in Smash 4. It's still there and it is still a big issue.
• Obvious balance considerations with how MK and most of Brawl top tier were reworked and lower tier buffed up. Besides MK, give an example.
• A balance patch that attempted to address some issues. Sadly there aren't going to be many more, if any. The balance patched nerfed bowser's side b to absolute ****, removed an easy AT, and changed the percent/landing lag on some moves
• For Glory isn't perfect, but the concept is there. A mode for no items for straight up matches. And a non-neutral stage that gives some characters clear advantages, and those characters with advantages on FD getting nerfed. The game should not be balanced around FD.
• Removed Vectoring and put old DI back in after complaints. Horizontal Vectoring is still there, but nerfed a little. That is still a good point.
• Air dodge landing lag to punish excessive ADs into the ground. Still just as spammable in the air.
• Tips that tell players about teching, b reversing, turn around B moves, Out of shield options, wall jumps, invincibility frames on moves, stale moves, explanation of move priority, SDI, angling your shield, specific fighter moves, etc. Telling people how to play the game? Telling them about specific game mechanics?

There were some questionable decisions (rolls...), but I think it's ludicrous to say they didn't try much.

I bolded the list items I thought were legit.

 

[MegaMissingno]

I have every reason to be salty that the game I love so much, the best game I've ever played, is now being kicked out of majors, moved offstream at weeklies and qualifiers, and now has all these assholes who seriously have the nerve to cheer this fact. What the hell is wrong with people?

So what if it's a mod? It's an amazing labor of love by and for the community, with so much care poured into every aspect of it by some of the most devoted fans out there. To say it's "just a mod" and imply that this means it's somehow undeserving of recognition is utterly insulting to everything the PMDT has done to make it the best damn mod it can be.

I love this game and I don't want to see it die like this. I'm not interested in "moving on", I already tried Smash 4 and didn't like it. I just want to keep playing PM, because that's what I do like. And I don't see why that's so terrible of me to want to play the game I love most.

 

[Garred]

PMDT should try getting PM Greenlit on steam and then maybe Valve will buy it and make new characters for it that all play exactly the same and call it PM 2

 

[Jimmology]

You want to know what your amazing game feels like to me?
It was good until you guys came along and extended it far beyond what was supposed to be. Now it's just too much for me to grab the handle of playing because it could take years of practice to actually preform fast movements and twitch maneuvering just to get into it. I learned wavedashing in two weeks just because I constantly crammed information everyday when i'd get the chance to. That's just the start of the game has to offer competitively. I have to learn every little detail about the game offers in this competitive environment that it is so hard to preform these tasks in a real tournament. The skill cap is so ungodly high that by that I may learn some of it, I may be fairly below average by the time I am good at the game. This is the reason why the competitive scene has so many older people within it's ranks, sure you might have younger people like myself that compete in these tournaments, but for the most part I see an endless sea of 20 year olds and above just playing melee. There's no proper casual side of melee, not at all. Only people that have been playing for a LONG TIME.

Smash 4 is built for both competitive and a causal environment, and if it were just like melee the series would just burn into nothingness. The older players would just time out because of age or physical limits while no new players would replace them.

I'm done with melee.

Someone call the wahhhhmbulance

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

I hate that there are people cheering about this awful news (they bring shame to us Smash 4 players) and I hate that people are taking out their anger on Smash 4. All that's happening is that two communities are now at each others throats. Sadly, I foresee no happy resolution for this situation in the near future.

 

[Aguki90]

on other news. SF5 will replace SF4 in major tournaments 2 years from now.

Tekken 7 will replace TTT2.

and Smash 4 will be replaced if not Smash 5, by 6 or 7 sometime in the future too.

Such is the truth in competitive FGs. Accept it, adapt and move on.
I can't see why there's so much issue with this.

Si true man. People just become to old to accept change.

Sometime we need to change to continue to do a better future.
And everything you say is true, is a new sequel game appears it will replaced the OLD one. Did not happen in Melee to Brawl. But Melee to Smash 4 most likely.

Project M has better fanservice stuff because is a Mod, With Mod everything is possible.

 

[Crome]

Now it's just too much for me to grab the handle of playing because it could take years of practice to actually preform fast movements and twitch maneuvering just to get into it..

It isn't. I've only been playing for 5 months. It's just practice, man.

This is the reason why the competitive scene has so many older people within it's ranks, sure you might have younger people like myself that compete in these tournaments, but for the most part I see an endless sea of 20 year olds and above just playing melee.

I'm 14. No Johns.

There's no proper casual side of melee, not at all. Only people that have been playing for a LONG TIME.

Why are you going to tournaments for casual play? Why are you on smashboards for casual play? There is casual melee, but don't go to a tournament for casual play.

Smash 4 is built for both competitive and a causal environment

It was made specifically to have a low skill cap. It wasn't made for competitive play.

and if it were just like melee the series would just burn into nothingness.

It wouldn't. The competitive aspects of melee were completely optional. Melee was the last smash game that catered to both competitive and casual players.

The older players would just time out because of age or physical limits while no new players would replace them..

Yes, they would. Just recently Hax is taking a hiatus. Mang0 apparently only has "1-2 years of fox left". However, new players are popping up all the time. There is a 14 year old Tink player (Lunchables) who 0-death'd Sethlon (PMDT, Roy player).

I'm done with melee.

We're talking about PM here. I don't understand why you made this about melee.

 

[Gidy]

Now before everyone gets upset, you have to understand that these people are trying to make money. If they have to choose between Project M and Smash 4, they're going to choose the one that will make them more money.

Why can't we have both?

 

[Wario Bros.]

PMDT should try getting PM Greenlit on steam and then maybe Valve will buy it and make new characters for it that all play exactly the same and call it PM 2

You're kidding right? Can't believe this was actually posted...

Putting a fan-made mod of a Wii game by Nintendo, which contains COUNTLESS amount of IPs of not only Nintendo but SEGA & Konami, onto a PC gaming service without Nintendo's permission to most likely make a profit wrongfully, is EXTREMELY ILLEGAL (not to mention incredibly idiotic).

Wow...

 

[Sleek Media]

Love it. Won't be too long before PM is completely gone from the national scene. Maybe if the PM crowd had been less obnoxious about declaring Brawl and Smash4 inferior and dead, they would have a little more support. Good riddance.

 

[Jahnathan]

Why can't we have both?

"As of now it unfortunately will not be in any official capacity. Smash 4 will most likely be added as well so running 3 smash games at an event with 8+ other games wouldn't work well cause of resources and time."

 

[MegaMissingno]

Love it. Won't be too long before PM is completely gone from the national scene. Maybe if the PM crowd had been less obnoxious about declaring Brawl and Smash4 inferior and dead, they would have a little more support. Good riddance.

You might want to look in the mirror there, bub.

 

[link2702]

sadly I had a feeling P:M might start getting dropped from certain big tournaments. They don't want to get any lawsuits or issues from nintendo headed their way, and with smash4 out, they know it'd be a bigger money maker for em anyhow.

 

[EpixAura]

separation has been in this community since brawl. smash 4 did not do anything And yeah lots of competive players do like it. any ''blow'' the smash community is taking is by people flipping there **** about some tournys. last time i recall the smash 64 community was not throwing out death threats for not being at the come up. its great to have passion for ur game but litterally all ur doing is making a half ***** excuse to why the smash community has been in shreads for the past 7 years. simply by saying ''smash 4 exist and i dont like it.''

Unlike brawl smash 4 rewards agression and pressure. if you dont like the way u have to play so be it but dont be pinning people who actually like the game into a corner by saying smash 4 is destroying our community and crap. all your doing is contibuting to this so called segregation.

And within the last few years, the community reached, for the most part, peace. Smash 64 didn't have a large competitive community when Melee came out, and plenty of people were happy to switch to Melee. Smash 4 is a very different issue. Both Melee and PM were the largest they've ever been, and most top level Brawl players seemed to be fine with the situation. At the very least, the community was not in shreds.
Furthermore, while a few characters are fine being more aggressive, the majority simply shouldn't be approaching unless the enemy outcamps them. While it's slightly more aggressive than Brawl, the game is still defensive overall. Just watch any top level match and notice how many approaches work compared to how many get punished, with the exception of characters like Sheik. It's not as bad as the situation with Brawl, but it's certainly not as 'fixed' as many people claim. Lastly, I'm blaming Smash 4 because, well, Smash 4 IS the cause of the problem, just as Brawl was the cause of it 7 years ago. Some people can say it's the fault of the communities themselves, but you can hardly blame them when the Smash games are competing against each other for spots at tournaments.

 

[C-SAF]

You want to know what your amazing game feels like to me?
It was good until you guys came along and extended it far beyond what was supposed to be. Now it's just too much for me to grab the handle of playing because it could take years of practice to actually preform fast movements and twitch maneuvering just to get into it. I learned wavedashing in two weeks just because I constantly crammed information everyday when i'd get the chance to. That's just the start of the game has to offer competitively. I have to learn every little detail about the game offers in this competitive environment that it is so hard to preform these tasks in a real tournament. The skill cap is so ungodly high that by that I may learn some of it, I may be fairly below average by the time I am good at the game. This is the reason why the competitive scene has so many older people within it's ranks, sure you might have younger people like myself that compete in these tournaments, but for the most part I see an endless sea of 20 year olds and above just playing melee. There's no proper casual side of melee, not at all. Only people that have been playing for a LONG TIME.

Smash 4 is built for both competitive and a causal environment, and if it were just like melee the series would just burn into nothingness. The older players would just time out because of age or physical limits while no new players would replace them.

I'm done with melee.

Honestly, if ur not willing to put time in, you will never compete in ANY game. Lower skill threshold for u also means its lower for other people too. So u will still not be good if u don't put time in. Competitive play is not for everyone.

 

[iLLuMinati_EYE]

damn no pm, its the only smash game to bring as much hype as melee
(

 

[BobVance_]

Lol always love when I read "I'm just casual but I like to go to tourneys and i dont do well" Yeahh...you're not casual. That's the industry's favorite word for low skilled players.

 

[BSP]

Can you not reply in the quote? Your replies don't show up when I try to reply.

Not even casuals liked tripping.

They probably didn't, but Sakurai and team didn't have to remove it. As a game in general, Brawl did fine even with the terrible mechanic. Regardless, the reasons for its removal are irrelevant. It was a change for the better as far as competitive play is concerned.

While also removing a huge part of the meta, edge guarding. The recoveries would be a lot more tolerable if edge trumping didn't exist.

This is incorrect. Edge hogging has been removed. However, there is nothing stopping players from jumping offstage to intercept people trying to recover. Is it harder to edge guard since you can't edgehog? Yes. Is it impossible? Not in the slightest.

Besides MK, give an example.

Spoiler

I used Mario, Luigi, Falco, and Sonic the most, but top tier has the most obvious changes. I wasn't an expert on the other guys, but these changes are apparent.

ICs: They are gone, but the problem they presented, grab infinites, was globally removed.

Olimar: in Brawl, he could invalidate some characters with his grab, pivot grab, side b, smash attacks alone. His grab had amazing range with low cooldown, and his Usmash and Fsmash followed suit. With red and purple pikmin, he wasn't short on KO power, and with blues and yellows, throws were extra painful and he could have massive disjoints on his moves. Side B was a fast projectile move that tacked on % easily, and required the opponent to attack to remove the pikmin, which Olimar could then punish. On the downside, his recovery was a tether, extremely easily gimped.

In Smash 4, his grab, pivot grab and smashes all have more cooldown making them more easily punished. His maximum Pikmin group is 3, inherently limiting his capability to outcamp characters with side B. His up B was revamped into the winged pikmin, giving him a much more reliable recovery.

Diddy: with a banana in hand and one on the ground, it was nearly impossible to approach this character safely in Brawl. Smash 4 reduced his banana limit to 1, made it disappear on hit (removing his banana locks), removed its transcendent priority, and made it disappear after two throws.

Marth: in Brawl, he could invalidate characters with his fair alone. In smash 4, most of his moveset was slowed down to compensate for the range he has on most of the cast. He can't mindlessly wall anymore to keep characters out.

Falco: Smash 4 nerfed his lasers into the ground, because they realized how powerful a fullscreen, transcendent, auto cancelling projectile was. His Dthrow CG was removed. His near instant Dair was slowed down. His jab 1 and 2 were slowed down and given more endlag so that his boxing game wouldn't be so ridiculous. His phantasm was also nerfed so that his instant air one wouldn't be near lagless.

Mario: Bottom tier in brawl, but helped immensely by hitstun mechanic changes. His FLUDD was buffed by being made transcendent, meaning that characters can no longer attack the water to mitigate the push. He Usmash was also made a bit more reliable for getting KOs.

Sonic: his biggest problem in brawl was lack of reliable KO options. Smash 4 fixed this by giving him two throws that KO reliably, and now the character is a top 10 contender.

Luigi: had huge difficulty approaching in Brawl. He is helped immensely from projectiles being slowed down and given more lag across the board. His cyclone hits were made more reliable and given more KO power, and his fireball is faster to help him deal with projectile spam.

Yoshi: The character can jump out of shield in SSB4, something he couldn't do in any other smash game sans PM.

Ness: a big one that jumps out is that his PK Thunder is invulnerable right after he fires it, making gimping him much more difficult.

There's more, but that should get the gist across.

The balance patched nerfed bowser's side b to absolute ****, removed an easy AT, and changed the percent/landing lag on some moves

The patch also buffed Luigi to be a serious threat, gave Pac Man's Usmash some end lag so he couldn't spam it for free, made it more rewarding to KO Rosalina's Luma, and made Shulk a serious contender, among other things. We can go back and forth on the +/- of each change, but the point is that the team is ( Was ) trying to balance the game.

And a non-neutral stage that gives some characters clear advantages, and those characters with advantages on FD getting nerfed. The game should not be balanced around FD.

No it shouldn't. As I said, For Glory is not perfect. The important part is that it is a mode specifically for fights with no items so you can test your skills. It's still a gift for people that take the game seriously or want to get better.

Removed Vectoring and put old DI back in after complaints. Horizontal Vectoring is still there, but nerfed a little. That is still a good point.

Ok.

Still just as spammable in the air.

Unfortunately, yes, but it's still progress towards making the defensive options more punishable.

Telling people how to play the game? Telling them about specific game mechanics?

Yes. What casual player is going to care about the mechanics that I mentioned? I think they're clearly intended for the people that take the game seriously.

And within the last few years, the community reached, for the most part, peace. Smash 64 didn't have a large competitive community when Melee came out, and plenty of people were happy to switch to Melee. Smash 4 is a very different issue. Both Melee and PM were the largest they've ever been, and most top level Brawl players seemed to be fine with the situation. At the very least, the community was not in shreds.
Furthermore, while a few characters are fine being more aggressive, the majority simply shouldn't be approaching unless the enemy outcamps them. While it's slightly more aggressive than Brawl, the game is still defensive overall. Just watch any top level match and notice how many approaches work compared to how many get punished, with the exception of characters like Sheik. It's not as bad as the situation with Brawl, but it's certainly not as 'fixed' as many people claim. Lastly, I'm blaming Smash 4 because, well, Smash 4 IS the cause of the problem, just as Brawl was the cause of it 7 years ago. Some people can say it's the fault of the communities themselves, but you can hardly blame them when the Smash games are competing against each other for spots at tournaments.

You should stop saying "the community" and say "melee community" and "PM community" because it's clear that you don't care for anything Smash 4 is doing in a positive sense and don't acknowledge/value its community. There are plenty of people that play Smash 4 competitively and enjoy it, and it's insulting that you're insinuating that Smash 4 (and its community by extension) is only a problem because it appears to be hurting Melee and PM, but I guess it makes sense because there is no real "smash" community. Ideas like this are why this divide exists in the first place.

 

[Sleek Media]

You might want to look in the mirror there, bub.

Might want to take a drink of water and get that salty taste out of your mouth, bub.

 

[Narpas_sword]

Love it. Won't be too long before PM is completely gone from the national scene. Maybe if the PM crowd had been less obnoxious about declaring Brawl and Smash4 inferior and dead, they would have a little more support. Good riddance.

What an atrocious and shameful attitude.

 

[xXTOPWOLFXx]

Alright i've been excited for smash 4 since it was announced but its really just turned into a curse. It obviously, like brawl, will turn into another game with no real competitive value and the fact that PM is being replaced in a TOURNAMENT for this game is pathetic. Smash 4 is really caused nothing but dissapointment for me

 

[Freezie KO]

CEO and Apex made the right call. There's a limited amount of resources and exposure that can be dedicated to each game. You have the newest title with SSB4 and you have the popular legacy title with Melee.

Leaving out PM opens the door to official Nintendo support, which can certainly boost Smash 4 and maybe Melee by association. That could potentially translate to real dollars that makes competitive play valuable for players and their very real investments of both time and dollars (entry and travel).

This isn't "OneUnit." This news sucks for PM players, period. But if you're a PM player who thought a player-made mod would exist forever at national tournaments, you were being purposefully ignorant.

 

[BobVance_]

Love it. Won't be too long before PM is completely gone from the national scene. Maybe if the PM crowd had been less obnoxious about declaring Brawl and Smash4 inferior and dead, they would have a little more support. Good riddance.

Maybe if Brawl hadn't sucked they wouldn't have been obnoxious.

 

[Patrick Ray]

I Love Project M, but at the end of the day it is a Mod and to me should be acknowledged as such. The fact it is getting beat out by the legitimate versions of games seems fair honestly.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

And within the last few years, the community reached, for the most part, peace. Smash 64 didn't have a large competitive community when Melee came out, and plenty of people were happy to switch to Melee. Smash 4 is a very different issue. Both Melee and PM were the largest they've ever been, and most top level Brawl players seemed to be fine with the situation. At the very least, the community was not in shreds.
Furthermore, while a few characters are fine being more aggressive, the majority simply shouldn't be approaching unless the enemy outcamps them. While it's slightly more aggressive than Brawl, the game is still defensive overall. Just watch any top level match and notice how many approaches work compared to how many get punished, with the exception of characters like Sheik. It's not as bad as the situation with Brawl, but it's certainly not as 'fixed' as many people claim. Lastly, I'm blaming Smash 4 because, well, Smash 4 IS the cause of the problem, just as Brawl was the cause of it 7 years ago. Some people can say it's the fault of the communities themselves, but you can hardly blame them when the Smash games are competing against each other for spots at tournaments.

sorry all ur doing is giving excuses for behaviour that should not be tolerated.
quit living in ur fanfic. anytone with a brain knew this was not going to be a melee centric playstyle. and coming from a competive brawl player. smash 4 agression is way more potent of a playstyle.

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

Love it. Won't be too long before PM is completely gone from the national scene. Maybe if the PM crowd had been less obnoxious about declaring Brawl and Smash4 inferior and dead, they would have a little more support. Good riddance.

Maybe if Brawl hadn't sucked they wouldn't have been obnoxious.

Neither of you are helping to ease tensions.

 

[TopTierPichu]

good, RIP PM

 

[MegaMissingno]

Might want to take a drink of water and get that salty taste out of your mouth, bub.

You don't see me saying anyone else shouldn't be allowed to play what they enjoy. I may not care for Brawl or Smash 4, but I'm not going to go tell people that they shouldn't get to play their game.