Melee Ports Wanted Changes Thread

[standardtoaster]

Se7en, keep it in one post. No need to post 3 times in a row

 

[Phaiyte]

Then what are you doing in this thread?

This isn't melee? I don't know man maybe I'm on to something there.

unimportant anecdote.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

Lackluster argument punctuated with running away and refusing to admit when I'm wrong.

Oh, I get it now. I almost feel sorry for you.

 

[MagnesD3]

Changes I want done to Jiggilypuff

Two things I want to change for puff is her Sing and Rollout Specials.

*Reasons I want Rollout changed. 1. It currently has no use in competitive play, 2. To give jiggly players a new two to use to expand their gameplan.

A. Rollout after release can now be cancelled by pressing the b button (similar to squritles withdrawl) but the momentum of the move is still maintained.

* Reasons I want Sing changed. 1. It currently has extremely limited use in competitive play. 2. Doesnt even work on hit all the time. 3. To give Jiggily a new tool to work with.

A. Make affected opponents sleep longer.

B. Increase Range of Sing to increase usage as a tech trapping tool, (similar to DK's B down).


Changes I want done to Captain Falcon

The things I want altered for falcon are his Falcon Punch, Slight adjustment to air Raptor Boost, Falcon Kick, Forward Tilt.

* Reasons I want Falcon Punch adjusted. 1. Its only useful as a punish and even then not very useful. 2. For Flavor reasons and to make it scarier.

A. Make falcon punch have 4 frames of startup invincibility.

B. Make it look like the N64 falcon punch with an enlarge hit box to make sense with the formed firehawk.

C. Slightly increase speed and the range it sends falcon forward.

D. Make it break shields on block, aka dont block it.

* Reasons I want Air Raptor Boost adjusted. 1. Its sometimes unsafe on hit. 2. The Risk isnt worth the reward.

A. Air Rapter Boost leaves Captain Falcon recovered before the opponent leading to a possible combo convergence on hit.

B. Opponent Bounces on the ground on hit similar to ganons bounce, can combo knee from this.

*Reasons for change to Falcon Kick. 1. To improve its uses in the neutral game. 2. Flavor.

A. Decrease start up speed to be similar to N64 version or faster than it.

B. Make its durability beat out all projectiles.

C. Increase the Flames on the move to look similar to the N64 (it looks sweet.)

*Reasons for changes to FTilt. 1. It will give captain falcon a quick safe punish tool that kills at high percents. 2. In looks and sounds really cool so FLAVOR.

A. Change CF's forward tilt to N64 forward smash where CF throws his leg out into an explosion and says YEAH!


Changes Id like for Shiek

Things affected are Chain Whip and Transform.

*Reasons for changeing Chain Whip 1. situational tool is made more useful.

A. Chain Whip startup time and recovery time is decreased.

B. Chain Whip's whip is slightly extended further.

C. Chain Whip can grab edges.

*Reasons for changing Transform. 1. Its useless...

A. Replace Transform with an entirely new move designed by PMBR to adhere to her playstyle or cover a hole in her game.



A couple Extra changes to non melee ports.

Ganondorf

Change his Warlock punch to a new move since its garbage.

Zelda

Allow her to do a small fireball that stays in air or an bigger explosive fireball (up to PMBR to design this)

And Remove Transform for an entirely new move designed by PMBR to adhere to her playstyle or cover a hole in her game.

 

[TreK]

If you want to witness brawl's shield breaker in all its wavebouncing glory, I suggest you look up Leon and/or Mr.R matches.
I'm not too sure how good the move would fit in PM, but it is a sexy move indeed.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

Changes I want done to Jiggilypuff

Two things I want to change for puff is her Sing and Rollout Specials.

*Reasons I want Rollout changed. 1. It currently has no use in competitive play, 2. To give jiggly players a new two to use to expand their gameplan.

A. Rollout after release can now be cancelled by pressing the b button (similar to squritles withdrawl) but the momentum of the move is still maintained.

* Reasons I want Sing changed. 1. It currently has extremely limited use in competitive play. 2. Doesnt even work on hit all the time. 3. To give Jiggily a new tool to work with.

A. Make affected opponents sleep longer.

B. Increase Range of Sing to increase usage as a tech trapping tool, (similar to DK's B down).

I like the idea for changes to Rollout, though the move in general feels out of place on a Jigglypuff to me. I think it would also be interesting if Puff could do Rollout out of a shield to make use of the Pokemon Defense Curl + Rollout combo.

I would have to disagree to increase Sing's range though. The big difference between DK tech trapping with his down B and Jiggly managing to pull it off, is that the opponent can DI and Tech from DK's, if I'm not mistaken. What you're suggesting seems like a successful tech read with Sing could lead to a fully or at least partially charged smash or a Rest with much less effort than you'd have to make previously. Sing, while currently not a backbone to Puff's gameplay, has it's own use (Backwards ledge grabbing, an extra taunt, and a really really lucky attack that lets you punish with basically anything), I wouldn't concentrate on making it necessarily better lest we devolve into Brawl Minus territory.

Changes Id like for Shiek

Things affected are Chain Whip and Transform.

*Reasons for changeing Chain Whip 1. situational tool is made more useful.

A. Chain Whip startup time and recovery time is decreased.

B. Chain Whip's whip is slightly extended further.

C. Chain Whip can grab edges.

*Reasons for changing Transform. 1. Its useless...

A. Replace Transform with an entirely new move designed by PMBR to adhere to her playstyle or cover a hole in her game.

I like the idea of making Sheik's chain whip better, but I must wholeheartedly disagree with the idea to allow it to grab ledges. To do this would allow one of the most stage dominating characters in the game to completely disregard ledge hogging in favor of the obnoxious tether recovery that lets them grab the ledge and climb back on stage regardless of the location of their foe.

Transform isn't useless with how it is right now. If you transform, you can remove Snake's C4, you can do it in air for a stall and to utilize Zelda's superior Farore's Wind instead of your short ranged smoke bomb teleport. Despite Zelda being less dominating in Project M, she's nowhere near the useless character she was in Melee, so transforming can have it's own situational use. Also, if they removed transform, they'd have to do it for Zelda too, basically taking away Zelda's ability to adapt to certain very bad matchups that Sheik can handle more handily.

Ganondorf

Change his Warlock punch to a new move since its garbage.

I wouldn't say it's useless, it's just difficult to connect. When it does connect, it will probably kill the poor guy who took the hit. I'd say if anything was to be done to Warlock Punch, allow the player to cancel it with L or R in it's early frames as a feint.[/quote]

Zelda

Allow her to do a small fireball that stays in air or an bigger explosive fireball (up to PMBR to design this)

Doesn't Din's Fire already fit this description?

 

[Juushichi]

You can already still chain jacket for Sheik and iirc, it keeps most of it's brawl properties so you can still lock people in it for a little bit. You can really wrack up a lot of damage with it.

Ganondorf honestly needs something that allows him to not be styled on all of the time. His mobility is okay, but he has to work so hard compared to a lot of characters... and his recovery is still really easy to deal with. I would honestly rather the PMBR do something about his kinda weak neutral game and his below midling recovery.

 

[MagnesD3]

I like the idea for changes to Rollout, though the move in general feels out of place on a Jigglypuff to me. I think it would also be interesting if Puff could do Rollout out of a shield to make use of the Pokemon Defense Curl + Rollout combo.

I would have to disagree to increase Sing's range though. The big difference between DK tech trapping with his down B and Jiggly managing to pull it off, is that the opponent can DI and Tech from DK's, if I'm not mistaken. What you're suggesting seems like a successful tech read with Sing could lead to a fully or at least partially charged smash or a Rest with much less effort than you'd have to make previously. Sing, while currently not a backbone to Puff's gameplay, has it's own use (Backwards ledge grabbing, an extra taunt, and a really really lucky attack that lets you punish with basically anything), I wouldn't concentrate on making it necessarily better lest we devolve into Brawl Minus territory.


I like the idea of making Sheik's chain whip better, but I must wholeheartedly disagree with the idea to allow it to grab ledges. To do this would allow one of the most stage dominating characters in the game to completely disregard ledge hogging in favor of the obnoxious tether recovery that lets them grab the ledge and climb back on stage regardless of the location of their foe.

Transform isn't useless with how it is right now. If you transform, you can remove Snake's C4, you can do it in air for a stall and to utilize Zelda's superior Farore's Wind instead of your short ranged smoke bomb teleport. Despite Zelda being less dominating in Project M, she's nowhere near the useless character she was in Melee, so transforming can have it's own situational use. Also, if they removed transform, they'd have to do it for Zelda too, basically taking away Zelda's ability to adapt to certain very bad matchups that Sheik can handle more handily.


I wouldn't say it's useless, it's just difficult to connect. When it does connect, it will probably kill the poor guy who took the hit. I'd say if anything was to be done to Warlock Punch, allow the player to cancel it with L or R in it's early frames as a feint.

Doesn't Din's Fire already fit this description?[/quote]

As for Jiggilypuffs sing, I feel it isnt very useful as is so I would still probably increase the range but not increase the time in sleep state (maybe the further your opponent is out of sing the faster they wake up) that way if you catch them you at least get pressure there after.

As for shiek im fine if chain doesnt ledgegrab since she is so good in this game but I definately want the other changes to chain. Also even though transform can be useful if you master 2 full characters in certain matchups I still feel zelda/sheik players would rather have a new tool to work with than a very situational one.

As for Warlock punch besides it being almost completely useless it doesnt really fit ganon at all, Id personally like the team to come up with a special that fits his actual character and help fills a hole in his game plan.

As for zeldas din's fire I am currently unaware that you can make the fireballs explode like in brawl, I thought the move was only made to set traps up to control space, while I like the option I still want the old version to be available as well in zeldas zoning repertoire she just doesnt feel the same without it IMO. I still want transform gone for the same reasons as sheik.

Also Id like to know your opinion on my CF changes (even though most of them are for flavor).

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

As for Jiggilypuffs sing, I feel it isnt very useful as is so I would still probably increase the range but not increase the time in sleep state (maybe the further your opponent is out of sing the faster they wake up) that way if you catch them you at least get pressure there after.

As for shiek im fine if chain doesnt ledgegrab since she is so good in this game but I definately want the other changes to chain. Also even though transform can be useful if you master 2 full characters in certain matchups I still feel zelda/sheik players would rather have a new tool to work with than a very situational one.

As for Warlock punch besides it being almost completely useless it doesnt really fit ganon at all, Id personally like the team to come up with a special that fits his actual character and help fills a hole in his game plan.

As for zeldas din's fire I am currently unaware that you can make the fireballs explode like in brawl, I thought the move was only made to set traps up to control space, while I like the option I still want the old version to be available as well in zeldas zoning repertoire she just doesnt feel the same without it IMO. I still want transform gone for the same reasons as sheik.

Also Id like to know your opinion on my CF changes (even though most of them are for flavor).

Din's Fire explodes after three seconds if it's left alone. Granted, you can't usually get this if you have people forcing them to vanish, but with the right setup, the explosion can kill already. I like that they stay around, so you can drop on on the floor in front of you and possibly snuff run-ins with their tiny hit-box.

I can understand not liking Warlock Punch, since it's basically Falcon Punch with an alternate look, but what would you recommend it get replaced with? Ganon hasn't really been changed that much in terms of individual attacks since Melee, though they might look a little different, or act that way, they're still the same things he's always had. Some hackers have given him a projectile, but a unique projectile would probably be a difficult thing for the PMBR to program into him.

For Puff, I think it'd be better off having it's non pound, rest, bair, and fair moves given a little bit more of a purpose. Jiggly isn't terrible how it's designed right now, just feels a little one dimensional in gameplay. Though that's the base design's fault, not Project M's.

For the most part, I didn't respond to the Captain Falcon changes because I dislike him so much that I could care less what happens to him. They could replace him with a big walking turd, and it wouldn't phase me. But if you're curious as to my thoughts, I'll give it a rundown.

Changes I want done to Captain Falcon

The things I want altered for falcon are his Falcon Punch, Slight adjustment to air Raptor Boost, Falcon Kick, Forward Tilt.

* Reasons I want Falcon Punch adjusted. 1. Its only useful as a punish and even then not very useful. 2. For Flavor reasons and to make it scarier.

A. Make falcon punch have 4 frames of startup invincibility.
B. Make it look like the N64 falcon punch with an enlarge hit box to make sense with the formed firehawk.
C. Slightly increase speed and the range it sends falcon forward.
D. Make it break shields on block, aka dont block it.

I'm not sure how many frames it takes for Falcon Punch to come out, but invincibility on it sounds like it would either be completely pointless depending on the time it takes to come out, or broken with the amount of power that it already has. It seems like it's one of those two, but I don't know all the details on him. It already has quite a bit of knockback, again if not mistaken, and the speed it sends people should be based upon their weight, DI, and SDI already.

I don't really mind the current graphic for his Falcon Punch either, but then again, I don't use him or tend to fight him, so I don't really have an opinion on that.

* Reasons I want Air Raptor Boost adjusted. 1. Its sometimes unsafe on hit. 2. The Risk isnt worth the reward.

A. Air Raptor Boost leaves Captain Falcon recovered before the opponent leading to a possible combo convergence on hit.
B. Opponent Bounces on the ground on hit similar to Ganon's bounce, can combo knee from this.

It doesn't really seem like the attack has much value, most of the time. I wouldn't really mind if it bounced and let Falcon act out of it a little faster. At the same time though, I don't really want him having even simpler setups into knee than he already does. Maybe make it a spike off stage to make it a little more threatening? I don't know.

*Reasons for change to Falcon Kick. 1. To improve its uses in the neutral game. 2. Flavor.

A. Decrease start up speed to be similar to N64 version or faster than it.
B. Make its durability beat out all projectiles.
C. Increase the Flames on the move to look similar to the N64 (it looks sweet.)

I think it's already fast enough from personal experiences. I don't remember if it clanks or gets flat out beat by projectiles in it's current state. I wouldn't mind it having very light armor so it can go through some projectiles, but I have no idea how that would drastically effect his matchups or if it would matter at all in the long run.

*Reasons for changes to FTilt. 1. It will give captain falcon a quick safe punish tool that kills at high percents. 2. In looks and sounds really cool so FLAVOR.

A. Change CF's forward tilt to N64 forward smash where CF throws his leg out into an explosion and says YEAH!

Short hopped anything or a grab leads into enough of a punish already, doesn't it? It sounds amusing, but I'm not sure how useful it would end up being.