Melee Netplay - The Future is Now (New and improved!)

[JMC4789]

We're working on modding dolphin to make netplay easier... please give us a little bit of time. We will be releasing tools that will make Netplay easier, more efficient and hopefully more accessible for the average user.

We'll have updates for you this coming week, likely from NMN.

Edit: I believe you can send a settings file between computers in vanilla dolphin, but I haven't been able to find one X.X

 

[Dan Salvato]

Listen. We're not interested in a "he-said-she-said" debate. I went onto #dolphin-emu on EFnet. From what I can tell, you got your information from somebody who was not a Dolphin developer, and they were simply trying to get you to leave. The only build they mentioned was 678, one that improved save states. That's it. No relevant improvements on 650.

I don't want to stir the pot any longer. We have had exactly 0 failures to synchronize with our settings, even across the globe, and multiple with your suggested settings. If you are genuinely having syncing issues with our recommended configuration and build, we are sorry for you, but others here can confirm that our setup has worked fine for them across multiple matches.

We don't want drama. Please don't spread false information in our thread, and definitely do not bother the Dolphin developers over this issue any further. They are busy enough as it is.

I don't think anybody here wants to cause drama but people are getting riled up because EVERYBODY is having mixed results. Excuse Billiard for getting the exact build wrong when speaking with Massive and me, as I doubt he has such build information memorized. But, our understanding is that the "save state improvements" are improvements which have overall greatly improved emulator determinism.

The thing is that others can confirm that the latest build works for them, and still others can confirm that they are having issues, with both the latest build and the old build. We've been faced with such inconclusive evidence that we decided to bring this up with the developers (who treated us with respect, by the way). Billiard gave us useful insight that we chose to believe, and we decided to relay that here. I'm not telling anybody that your testing is moot but I encourage people to experiment with different builds and see what works best for them. Nobody has the "end-all" solution here.

 

[JMC4789]

Internet Explorer, you yourself confirmed the newest build does not sync by admitting it does not last more than a few rounds. Our first post already said that ANY build can do that with dual core. You misconstrued the information at best. Please, don't get me wrong, our goals have a lot of alignment. If you're happy with multiple characters and stages being unplayable for the time being with a speedboost, so be it. But don't go around saying dualcore works for netplay when it has not improved one bit from build 3.0 for the uses of netplay.

Everyone is going to have different results with dualcore because it doesn't sync.

 

[Makkun]

I feel like these "mixed results" are a result of miscommunication. There are no mixed results. It is simply this:

Single Core mode does not desync.
Dual Core mode desyncs. The only time it may not desync is when there are non-random elements. This is in the OP of this thread and it has been mentioned multiple times.

 

[nmn]

What we're trying to say is, we haven't had a single failure. The only 'mixed result' I'm seeing is from the SSBMO team. If people are having trouble with Dolphin's netplay, I'm going to be more prone to believe that it's user error. The advice in the netplay window is pretty simple, and I have no reason to believe it isn't true.

We can only address issues that are reproducible, and nobody seems to be cooperating with that.

 

[Massive]

I don't really understand all the hostility, but whatever dudes.

Good luck to you.

 

[rawrimamonster]

So I tried the version you uploaded, has sound issues, has what seems like missing frames/lag. Yet when I play melee with the version I usually use (which is 3.0-586-dirty), I have full AA/AF on, no sound issues, no speed hacks and can run it single core no issues if I want, no frame drops nothing...so what gives? Hardware incompatibilities? I didnt try online on neither, just a offline comparison.

 

[Makkun]

So I tried the version you uploaded, has sound issues, has what seems like missing frames/lag. Yet when I play melee with the version I usually use (which is 3.0-586-dirty), I have full AA/AF on, no sound issues, no speed hacks and can run it single core no issues if I want, no frame drops nothing...so what gives? Hardware incompatibilities? I didnt try online on neither, just a offline comparison.

That's really strange. It could be some hardware incompatibility, like you said. What are your specs? I'm running a 4-5 year old computer and 3.05 gives me better performance than the later builds (besides maybe 786 and 792, which I haven't tried yet).

 

[JMC4789]

We'll test 586 to see if it is a better candidate, thank you for bringing this to our attention.

If you're using HLE in older versions, you'll have sound problems, if it's LLE, then can you tell me if you're getting full speed? If you're not getting full speed, then it's possible that 586 is simply faster than 305, and we just missed it. Either way, we'll be testing it to see if it's a better candidate.

 

[Bones0]

Someone should just make an AR code so Peach pulls regular turnips every time, Luigi never misfires and G&W always gets an 8. Alternatively, you could have Peach always pick stitches, Luigi always misfires, and G&W always gets a 9.

 

[JMC4789]

Honestly, that's not something I thought of. That's more something to talk about with the Project Melee Online group though; we're trying to make Melee work without altering the game. I'm sure they have more insight on how randoms work!

The second set of suggestions seems more realistic

 

[Izuhu]

Game is gonna get a wtf buff

 

[Bones0]

Well I just meant that could be used as a temporary solution for people who want to play with dual core or w/e.

 

[rawrimamonster]

That's really strange. It could be some hardware incompatibility, like you said. What are your specs? I'm running a 4-5 year old computer and 3.05 gives me better performance than the later builds (besides maybe 786 and 792, which I haven't tried yet).

My processor is a AMD phenomII X4 945 at stock 3GHz clock, Doubt the rest matters but HD5770 is my videocard and 4GB of DDR3 Ram at 1300MHz...or 1333...i forget, its been a while since I built this PC :\

Unrelated but upgrading to a GTX660 next month.

And JMC, I always use HLE...LLE is way too resource intense. xD

 

[L-J]

Apart from the USB adapter for a GC controller (on keyboard currently which is...interesting) I have this set up and ready to test. I've got a PAL ISO and memory card as well as an NTSC ISO with the memory card linked from the OP in this thread. I haven't tried online yet but offline the Dolphin version recommended here (3.0-305-dirty) seems to work fine in single core mode on my comp (which is admittedly brand new although not the very highest spec). King Funk's group for Europeans who want to play online sounds like a good idea, though I'd be happy to test with anyone just to check the online is working at all.

 

[KnitePhox]

My processor is a AMD phenomII X4 945 at stock 3GHz clock, Doubt the rest matters but HD5770 is my videocard and 4GB of DDR3 Ram at 1300MHz...or 1333...i forget, its been a while since I built this PC :\

Unrelated but upgrading to a GTX660 next month.

And JMC, I always use HLE...LLE is way too resource intense. xD

these are both extremely legit sites, imo. goodluck choosing an upgrade sweetspot

don't forget to check the hierarchy chart at the end of this if you have an in between budget (#7 table of contents)
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-card-review,3107-7.html

http://pcpartpicker.com/parts/video-card/

EDIT:oh wait you said NEXT month.... just wait for CYBER MONDAY, **** prices (almost) everywhere

 

[rawrimamonster]

these are both extremely legit sites, imo. goodluck choosing an upgrade sweetspot

don't forget to check the hierarchy chart at the end of this if you have an in between budget (#7 table of contents)
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-card-review,3107-7.html

http://pcpartpicker.com/parts/video-card/

EDIT:oh wait you said NEXT month.... just wait for CYBER MONDAY, **** prices (almost) everywhere

Pretty much the plan lol, in december i'm gettin a new monitor too.

 

[Fuzzyness]

L-J message me on facebook/msn

Ive got consistent results using dualcore stuff aside desynchs from random stuff like luigi misfire, G&W side b, turnips and random select

aside that it wont desynch very often

 

[JMC4789]

And JMC, I always use HLE...LLE is way too resource intense. xD

Yes, you will get desyncs if you use LLE. Putting LLE on thread will make it fast enough to play full speed if you already get full speed on single core.

It is completely possible to play Final Destination and Battlefield with Dualcore and HLE if you so desire, just note that you will eventually desync. It's fine otherwise, if you have no other way to play, I don't think it's a bad idea.

Just because we have settings guaranteed to sync for long term doesn't mean you can't use HLE and dualcore for one off matches.

Our longterm goal is to make things easier on people who want to play, and while fixing dual core isn't something we have the manpower to do, if anyone has some suggestions or ideas to make netplay more convenient, please let us know!

Edit: Also, for those experiencing desyncs occasionally, it's the random on star KOs. If you get knocked off the topside of the map, if you wait 2 - 3 seconds after you respawn, it can curb the number of desyncs you experience midgame.

Edit2: That's only if you use Dualcore or HLE audio, otherwise, you don't have to worry about desyncs.

 

[Fuzzyness]

I just tested with someone with a good pc as well

he ripped his LLE audio from the wii and I used his one, now it works 100% with xaudio2 backend

tested on 5-10 input delay and worked smooth as a baby's bottom on dualcore on 60fps

just that random desynch stuff still happens

 

[Bstuk]

Wow I'm impressed that this actually works!!

The lag wasn't that bad either. I could still waveland, tech, and do those stupid falco combos. Seriously guys, you should try this out!

 

[Leviathan741]

What do I do about the input lag of my monitor? Like I feel the same lag I would playing on an hdtv on my computer screen on my laptop. (yes i have a very powerful laptop that emulates melee at 60fps). any help?

 

[KnitePhox]

What do I do about the input lag of my monitor? Like I feel the same lag I would playing on an hdtv on my computer screen on my laptop. (yes i have a very powerful laptop that emulates melee at 60fps). any help?

you cant help monitor response time i think

i played stepmania on my tv with an hdmi cable and it lagged horribly, i switched to VGA and it was lagless. try switching from digital to analog?

 

[Leviathan741]

you cant help monitor response time i think

i played stepmania on my tv with an hdmi cable and it lagged horribly, i switched to VGA and it was lagless. try switching from digital to analog?

Its my laptop screen though

 

[nmn]

Okay guys. So, this is interesting. In one night, we managed to find solutions to make both HLE and Dual Core sync. HLE Audio syncing has been tested across platforms and appears to have no side-effects... Let's hope it stays that way

Dual Core syncing is just disabling memory card writes. We will probably put this into a separate option. A more long-term solution that makes memory card writes not cause desync on dual core mode would be preferred, but I do not know how to fix that yet. Sorry.

If you want builds, I hear you, and I'm working on it. Dolphin Windows builds are quite painful for me as I do not use the exact same setup as the Dolphin developers, so I'm often tweaking files to make it work out.

 

[Jonny Westside]

Okay guys. So, this is interesting. In one night, we managed to find solutions to make both HLE and Dual Core sync. HLE Audio syncing has been tested across platforms and appears to have no side-effects... Let's hope it stays that way

Dual Core syncing is just disabling memory card writes. We will probably put this into a separate option. A more long-term solution that makes memory card writes not cause desync on dual core mode would be preferred, but I do not know how to fix that yet. Sorry.

For now, the code is available on a google code clone:
http://code.google.com/r/johnwchadwick-dolphin-ssbm/

If you want builds, I hear you, and I'm working on it. Dolphin Windows builds are quite painful for me as I do not use the exact same setup as the Dolphin developers, so I'm often tweaking files to make it work out.

Yo, I'm new to this and I clicked that google doc you linked but I couldn't find any code....or atleast I wasn't able to understand what I was seeing lol You are talking about an AR code right...? Help a n00b out

Edit: Making these code add-ons noob friendly would be greatly appreciated :S Perhaps pack these new discoveries in a build of dolphin and provide a link?

Great job btw!

 

[nmn]

These are not AR codes; this is a Dolphin modification that changes how Dolphin itself works. That being said, the builds are here, and tested.

Win32 | x64

Usage: Just make sure you have the same settings (most importantly: Dual Core, Idle Skipping, HLE vs LLE audio) and memory card files as the opponent and it should not lose sync.

Win32: Use for 32-bit operating system (Works on most machines.)
x64: Use for 64-bit operating system (Faster if possible.)
Sorry, no Linux builds yet. deb packages will be possible in the future. Same for Mac, no Mac builds yet - maybe in the future.

Anyway, that's it. Happy .. err, smashing

 

[Jonny Westside]

These are not AR codes; this is a Dolphin modification that changes how Dolphin itself works. That being said, the builds are here, and tested.

Win32 | x64

Usage: Just make sure you have the same settings (most importantly: Dual Core, Idle Skipping, HLE vs LLE audio) and memory card files as the opponent and it should not lose sync.

Win32: Use for 32-bit operating system (Works on most machines.)
x64: Use for 64-bit operating system (Faster if possible.)
Sorry, no Linux builds yet. deb packages will be possible in the future. Same for Mac, no Mac builds yet - maybe in the future.

Anyway, that's it. Happy .. err, smashing

Thank you! Dual Core and Idle Skipping must be CHECKED correct?

 

[nmn]

You can check both of them, just make sure your opponent has the same settings.

HLE also works, but once again, the opponent must have HLE enabled as well.

Oh, and the opponent obviously needs to be using this version of Dolphin. Can't mismatch versions.

 

[Jonny Westside]

OK, got it. You've been awesome.

Also it would be pretty sweet if you can get the OP to post those on the front page for any newcomers looking to get started with a good build.

 

[Jolteon]

Really interested in giving this a go when I have net again. ^^ I have a question, though. I'm currently using an xbox controller and I don't like the control stick for Melee, can anyone recommend a good USB adapter?

 

[JMC4789]

The first post needs a total rewrite now; specs required to play are effectively cut in half.

People who can only play with dualcore are highly recommended to update... hell, everyone is highly recommended to update.

Just note, this doesn't mean we're done, just because two seemingly impossible tasks were lucked through (literally stumbled upon in one exceptional case.)

I don't know how this happened, less than 6 hours ago I was telling a tester that we probably would never have dualcore syncing...

 

[L-J]

Just to clarify, will random events (e.g. random character select, luigi misfire) still cause desynchs playing dual core online with this new build? Or is that a separate issue?

 

[nmn]

Just to clarify, will random events (e.g. random character select, luigi misfire) still cause desynchs playing dual core online with this new build? Or is that a separate issue?

That was the issue we solved. We tested, and with both HLE Audio and Dual Core mode enabled, we were able to play multiple matches, with random events occuring, across Windows and Linux, over LAN.

That's not to say it still can't desync, but it shouldn't systematically desync anymore. Now, the primary cause of desyncing should be configuration mismatches.

 

[L-J]

Ah ok, that's awesome great job!

@Jolteon: I went for the one Fuzz has - £15 shipped from Hong Kong

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dreamcast...300?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a741276dc

 

[Jolteon]

Cool, thanks.

 

[Fuzzyness]

The first post needs a total rewrite now; specs required to play are effectively cut in half.

People who can only play with dualcore are highly recommended to update... hell, everyone is highly recommended to update.

Just note, this doesn't mean we're done, just because two seemingly impossible tasks were lucked through (literally stumbled upon in one exceptional case.)

I don't know how this happened, less than 6 hours ago I was telling a tester that we probably would never have dualcore syncing...

"Update?" the latest dolphin or the x64 one you linked before?

I see that 793 doesnt exist on dolphin site so it must be the hacked "793" you uploaded

 

[Fuzzyness]

testing your build with funk now, it still desynchs after 2 games or so (USING HLE + XAudio2 Direct 3D 9)

however, it was smooth as hell. We were playing on 8 pad buffer :D

just had a successful game with peach it desynched on game 2 tho


basically if IE or someone makes that lobby thing which goes through debug mode, resets the emulator somehow every game then it wont desynch

for now people have to manually reset every game or two


Ice Climbers desync all the time >_>


We're mostly desynching after 1 match. Altho things like fox, falco, marth sheik dont seem to desynch at all on normal stages

 

[Makkun]

This is absolutely incredible. Yesterday I said I would be rewriting the OP, but now there's a plethora of new information to organize. However, I'm having some problems IRL regarding my apartment, so it might take a little time to properly organize and rewrite the OP. I'll start working on it right now though.

 

[Gliffie]

This is just amazing! I have to try this out now