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Melee Netplay - The Future is Now (New and improved!)
- Thread starter Makkun
- Start date
- Status
I am planning on buying a new computer since my old one kinda crashed and is too old anyways. Could anyone help me and tell me what would be the best computer to play melee online? With in the boundary that it should not be super expensive. So not the latest ones, but maybe one year old. Would be nice to see some kind of an optimal set for processor, graphics card, how much ram memory, what kind of a monitor screen for less lag and so on.. Really appreciate if someone can tell me. It could be also a good idea to update the first post so that it could tell good and optimum computers to play melee online...
The best processor to play Dolphin is the i5 3570K. Most modern graphics cards will do fine; they aren't the limiting factor. Now to go through the other questions in order...
Dr. Ed, your problem can be one of two things. In very rare cases, some routers will block outgoing connections, making it so you can't connect to other players, even if they do have port forwarding. The solution to that is to portforward your own router and use it to host or connect on the ports you have forwarded.
The biggest problem is that most players either do not know how to port forward, or cannot access the router to port forward, so they're stuck using bad alternatives like Hamachi, which add a lot of lag.
Michael Li, same country is about 1 - 3 frames of lag, U.S. to UK is between 3 - 4 frames of lag. Connection quality will affect lag as well, but, the worst I've had to play with as to Sweden from Michigan at 6 frames of lag, which is comparable to green latency on Brawl's Wifi.
If you're playing players in the same region on broadband/DSL, expect 1 frame of lag.
We'll update the main post, or perhaps move to a new thread where I'm in control of it and can keep it updated? I don't know yet, depends on how things play out going forward.
The only computers I can guarantee will run everything full speed with highest quality settings are the i5 3570k and up. Most i5s, first gen and up, can do fairly well in most conditions. It's really a per player thing. If anyone does want to help, post your computer specs and speeds at various settings, stages, number of players and maybe we can compile a whole chart of computer rigs that can show new people how much they need to spend to get the quality they want, when upgrading.
There's a new HLE system on Dolphin-Emu.org's latest build, we're going to be integrating that into the netplay builds to see if that improves performance at all. Until then, we'll keep everyone updated!
Dr. Ed, your problem can be one of two things. In very rare cases, some routers will block outgoing connections, making it so you can't connect to other players, even if they do have port forwarding. The solution to that is to portforward your own router and use it to host or connect on the ports you have forwarded.
The biggest problem is that most players either do not know how to port forward, or cannot access the router to port forward, so they're stuck using bad alternatives like Hamachi, which add a lot of lag.
Michael Li, same country is about 1 - 3 frames of lag, U.S. to UK is between 3 - 4 frames of lag. Connection quality will affect lag as well, but, the worst I've had to play with as to Sweden from Michigan at 6 frames of lag, which is comparable to green latency on Brawl's Wifi.
If you're playing players in the same region on broadband/DSL, expect 1 frame of lag.
We'll update the main post, or perhaps move to a new thread where I'm in control of it and can keep it updated? I don't know yet, depends on how things play out going forward.
The only computers I can guarantee will run everything full speed with highest quality settings are the i5 3570k and up. Most i5s, first gen and up, can do fairly well in most conditions. It's really a per player thing. If anyone does want to help, post your computer specs and speeds at various settings, stages, number of players and maybe we can compile a whole chart of computer rigs that can show new people how much they need to spend to get the quality they want, when upgrading.
There's a new HLE system on Dolphin-Emu.org's latest build, we're going to be integrating that into the netplay builds to see if that improves performance at all. Until then, we'll keep everyone updated!
Fishaman P
Smash Apprentice
With the new Ivy Bridge IGPs, you might not even need a dedicated graphics card if you leave AA off!
I'm sure Haswell will actually start killing off the cheap video cards.
As for the AMD A8-3500M, no. Just no. AMD can pack a lot of weak cores onto a single chip, but they can't even make a core half as fast as Intel's. Basically, dolphin uses 2 cores (mainly) --> AMD chip is effectively an Intel running Single Core.
I'm sure Haswell will actually start killing off the cheap video cards.
As for the AMD A8-3500M, no. Just no. AMD can pack a lot of weak cores onto a single chip, but they can't even make a core half as fast as Intel's. Basically, dolphin uses 2 cores (mainly) --> AMD chip is effectively an Intel running Single Core.
D
Deleted member
Guest
Well, it's too late now. I've already bought it, and it arrives in a couple days. Wish I had come across this thread when I did. Oh well.
Anyway, I doubt it's as bad as you say, you shouldn't exaggerate so much. I read up some reviews before making the purchase and the verdict was that for Quad Core, it doesn't offer the Multiask Speed it should, making it the slowest Quad Core. But when it came to gaming and Graphical output, it was damn good for its price. Which was my main focus. I need something that won't choke with Video Editing programs, Photoshop, and Dolphin. My Old Laptop could Run Melee fairly well, and it was an Asus from 2007. I'm sure this chip can do better than that. According the to all of the reviwes, the A8-3500M should have no problem running 2011 PC games on Med-High settings. Something my old Asus CAN'T do.
AfterImage
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2012
- Messages
- 1
I just got a new gaming machine and I definitely want in on this.
Skype name: tacks.18
Skype name: tacks.18
The stuff about the bulldozer processors aren't being exaggerated. They're woefully underpowered because nearly half the transistors were removed before release. Will it be playable? Yeah, probably on a few levels, but, a comparable intel processor will still do better on this particular program.
And, I'll reiterate this again: PC games use graphics cards as much as processor, usually more. Bad ports tend to use too much processor (see GTAIV on PC) while games made on PC use very little and mostly graphics card power. Because Dolphin is an emulator, graphics cards are barely used at lower quality levels, and all of the work is put on the processor for rendering. Just because reviews say it will run a PC game does not mean it will run emulators well.
On the plus side, because of PCSX2's multi-core software rendering, if you are at all into PS2 emulation, the AMD chips aren't going to be as handicapped with an AMD processor.
And, I'll reiterate this again: PC games use graphics cards as much as processor, usually more. Bad ports tend to use too much processor (see GTAIV on PC) while games made on PC use very little and mostly graphics card power. Because Dolphin is an emulator, graphics cards are barely used at lower quality levels, and all of the work is put on the processor for rendering. Just because reviews say it will run a PC game does not mean it will run emulators well.
On the plus side, because of PCSX2's multi-core software rendering, if you are at all into PS2 emulation, the AMD chips aren't going to be as handicapped with an AMD processor.
D
Deleted member
Guest
@JMC
Well that's good at least, I was looking into PS2 emulation. That way I don't have to buy the elusive PS3 model with backwards compatibility.
Well that's good at least, I was looking into PS2 emulation. That way I don't have to buy the elusive PS3 model with backwards compatibility.
KnitePhox
Smash Lord
gaming cpu hierarchy chart
core for core, even at wildly different clock speeds, intel poops/curbstops/roflpwns/****slaps/lolu's/r u srs's/ezbest's/i wasn't even trying/RAYPS AMD
srsly, at the moment, intel just blows amd out of the water in terms of performance, even i3s are a better gaming choice than amd's 4core models and once u move to i5, its ggs for amd's whole lineup, no sweat
when gaming that APU(cpu/gpu combo) CAN play 2011 videogames.....at 30fps or lower, you should invest in fast RAM (1866mhz, 1.5v) as slowdowns occur with those chips due to them needing ram for both processing data and video stuffs.
most unfortunate you didn't know, but like you said, it doesn't break the bank
core for core, even at wildly different clock speeds, intel poops/curbstops/roflpwns/****slaps/lolu's/r u srs's/ezbest's/i wasn't even trying/RAYPS AMD
srsly, at the moment, intel just blows amd out of the water in terms of performance, even i3s are a better gaming choice than amd's 4core models and once u move to i5, its ggs for amd's whole lineup, no sweat
sucks that you didn't know where to look/who to ask prior to purchase
when gaming that APU(cpu/gpu combo) CAN play 2011 videogames.....at 30fps or lower, you should invest in fast RAM (1866mhz, 1.5v) as slowdowns occur with those chips due to them needing ram for both processing data and video stuffs.
most unfortunate you didn't know, but like you said, it doesn't break the bank
D
Deleted member
Guest
Yeah, I mostly needed a new portable computer as my old one broke. This is not my gaming PC, I do plan on building a rig sometime in the near future. So as long as it does its job properly for the next 3 or so years all is well.
Any moderators of the forum that are around, could you answer a question?
Is there a way to transfer first post of the thread to me? Either by deleting the first couple posts until I come up, or would it be easier to just lock this thread, and start anew? I can't seem to get a hold of Makkun and there will be more updates soon.
Is there a way to transfer first post of the thread to me? Either by deleting the first couple posts until I come up, or would it be easier to just lock this thread, and start anew? I can't seem to get a hold of Makkun and there will be more updates soon.
fatman667
Smash Journeyman
Might as well create another thread maybe.
Niko_K
Smash Master
What are the optimal PC hardware configurations for running Melee Netplay?
Internalyzed
Smash Apprentice
Is this compatible with Dolphin 3.5 (the newest release)?
Currently porting everything to 3.5. Working on a Mac Build with netplay features as well. We're frozen on that regard because the latest revisions of 3.5 don't actually boot on Mac.
Optimal computer to run dolphin is an extremely high powered 3rd gen i5 or i7 on a desktop PC with at least 4 gigs of ram and a midrange video card. When we get our next builds ready, I will post a new thread if I can't get the first posts of this one.
Optimal computer to run dolphin is an extremely high powered 3rd gen i5 or i7 on a desktop PC with at least 4 gigs of ram and a midrange video card. When we get our next builds ready, I will post a new thread if I can't get the first posts of this one.
Fishaman P
Smash Apprentice
Could you please try to get builds working either after the new-ax-hle's merge into Master, or take 3.5 and merge yourself? It makes HLE SO MUCH MORE bearable, especially at full speed.
We're well aware of that, and have already tested it over netplay. While AX HLE rewrite is incomplete, it has been allowing people to play several matches without a desync with audio on, no LLE. And from what I've heard from Delroth, it will be getting better, and perhaps even more accurate than our current LLE settings for netplay!
You're just going to have to be patient, we had builds ready, and if you're on Linux or Windows, you can still build it from our repository, but, unfortunately, Mac builds are completely broken in new versions of Dolphin, and we actually have someone working with us that can build Mac. The delay simply means we'll be working on more features and ironing out issues, though, so don't fret.
You're just going to have to be patient, we had builds ready, and if you're on Linux or Windows, you can still build it from our repository, but, unfortunately, Mac builds are completely broken in new versions of Dolphin, and we actually have someone working with us that can build Mac. The delay simply means we'll be working on more features and ironing out issues, though, so don't fret.
D
Deleted member
Guest
Well, I can play Skyrim on highest settings on this computer with no problems, and I can run Melee on Dolphin with high settings at full speed on normal stages 1vs1. If I play a FFA match, it slows down to around 60% speed. NSMB runs at around the same speed.
F-Zero GX remains unplayable.
What are my chances of getting in on some Melee Netplay here...
Also, on the subject of PS2 emulation, how's it look? Is it as good as GCN/Wii emulation? I've been meaning to give Xenosaga and Ace Combat a run for a while now.
F-Zero GX remains unplayable.
What are my chances of getting in on some Melee Netplay here...
Also, on the subject of PS2 emulation, how's it look? Is it as good as GCN/Wii emulation? I've been meaning to give Xenosaga and Ace Combat a run for a while now.
Skyrim is not an accurate comparison. Imagine if the processor had to do all the graphics work. I'm going to work on a new thread to answer these questions in a much better way than saying "No, it doesn't work like that" over and over again, I don't want to sound rude, but at the same time, I don't know what else to say.
F-Zero GX is fine on my computer, and it's an old i5 760. There are tracks that work poorly due to emulation glitches, but that's just a singular game. NSMBWii works fine if you turn off EFB to ram, again, that's just knowing the emulator. You can also turn on dualcore support when playing on single player making the games much more playable!
PS2 emulation is not as good as Wii emulation. But, Wii and GC emulation is nearly perfect in dolphin in almost all occasions. PS2 emulation suffers from more slowdown problems, unplayable games, broken features, but is still impressive and generally works very well on popular games. More GC/Wii games run full speed on my computer than PS2 games.
Melee netplay on your computer... I'm going to say it'll work fine, especially considering we have the 30 fps hack. If you can run 1 vs 1 fine without it, then with it on it'd be fine.
F-Zero GX is fine on my computer, and it's an old i5 760. There are tracks that work poorly due to emulation glitches, but that's just a singular game. NSMBWii works fine if you turn off EFB to ram, again, that's just knowing the emulator. You can also turn on dualcore support when playing on single player making the games much more playable!
PS2 emulation is not as good as Wii emulation. But, Wii and GC emulation is nearly perfect in dolphin in almost all occasions. PS2 emulation suffers from more slowdown problems, unplayable games, broken features, but is still impressive and generally works very well on popular games. More GC/Wii games run full speed on my computer than PS2 games.
Melee netplay on your computer... I'm going to say it'll work fine, especially considering we have the 30 fps hack. If you can run 1 vs 1 fine without it, then with it on it'd be fine.
Fishaman P
Smash Apprentice
Remember to put a new line after the code.
The Dolphin parser is crap like that, but it's what we have.
The Dolphin parser is crap like that, but it's what we have.
We're setting up our own build bot solution, a new thread will likely be started when everything's done. With the build bot, Mac, Linux, Windows 32/64 bit builds will all be released at the same time, automatically, when we update the netplay branch!
the skype chat has a lot of players, until we have a better system in place, unfortunately you do need get your opponents IP address. It's not as bad as friend codes though, right? 
Using our builds will give you the best performance as of right now, unless you use a mixture of the Action Replay codes IE provides and newest build in single core mode, which should in theory be more accurate than our outdated builds.
Using our builds will give you the best performance as of right now, unless you use a mixture of the Action Replay codes IE provides and newest build in single core mode, which should in theory be more accurate than our outdated builds.
NitH
Smash Cadet
Just got smash on my comp...and i wanted to see if ne one wanted to try this netplay with me...seems like a broken system and i dont fully understand it, but if its are best chance to play smash online im down ^_^....hit me up if yea wanna play ( might need to explane it to me lol sind me a PM
GimR
GimR, Co-Founder of VGBootCamp
OKay, so I know my codes are correct but this just isn't working. The master code crashes the program :/
the Debug menu doesn't work
I get this error: Action Replay: Write to CCXXXXXX not implemented
Also, I've tried without the master code and it still doesn't work.
the Debug menu doesn't work
I get this error: Action Replay: Write to CCXXXXXX not implemented
Also, I've tried without the master code and it still doesn't work.
NitH
Smash Cadet
i would like to join the skype group also ...ive already joined the steam group they have like 22 members .....its great idea if people where on to play
GimR
GimR, Co-Founder of VGBootCamp
Massive
Smash Champion
You definitely shouldn't need the master code. Actually, I've never gotten any of the codes included in dolphin to work at all.
What version of Melee are you using? Keep in mind only 1.02 is supported by IE's code.
Also note that there are several different versions of the iso floating around. You may very well have one of the ones with messed up offsets that just don't work. Have you tried other disc images?
Additionally, I'm told others (besides myself) have located the spot in the source that allows them to alter the frame timings, forcing the game into the equivalent of the 30fps or 45fps modes, negating the need for an AR code, but as far as I know such builds are still unreleased.
It's possible we could put an option right into the emulator itself to allow people to type in a number and use it as the "full speed" framerate without the need of codes, but, we've only implemented 30 fps in the released version.
Right now NMN is busy with other non-netplay related dolphin work, but the payoff will be notable once everything is finished up.
Dolphin's included codes for Melee don't seem to work for me either, but we highly recommend 1.02 because it's the most common version, and it works with IE's FPS codes, which is the only way to get 45 mode right now. With new HLE, plus his code, you should be able to use newer versions of Dolphin on single core until we make a netplay mod.
Right now NMN is busy with other non-netplay related dolphin work, but the payoff will be notable once everything is finished up.
Dolphin's included codes for Melee don't seem to work for me either, but we highly recommend 1.02 because it's the most common version, and it works with IE's FPS codes, which is the only way to get 45 mode right now. With new HLE, plus his code, you should be able to use newer versions of Dolphin on single core until we make a netplay mod.
Hi everyone. It's my first post here and have registered because I have found this thread really interesting.
I live in a small town in Spain so there is no smash community here and I only play with a couple of friends. This emulator could be the solution to play with another people.
I have used a downloaded NTSC 1.02 iso and played alone with good performance (60 FPS @ 1024x768). ¿Are other european players using also this version or PAL version?
¿Have anyone tried to playing between USA and Europe? ¿Is there a lot of lag? ¿Is possible to measure the lag in milliseconds?
¿Is there any reliable USB adaptor for GCN controller? I have googled a bit and seen some products that don't look very good. ¿Any experiences?
I would like to test the online play with someone, but no one was in the IRC.
Please excuse me if some of my questions are already answered but I have not read the whole thread (quit large, 32 pages) and for bad english.
Thank you.
I live in a small town in Spain so there is no smash community here and I only play with a couple of friends. This emulator could be the solution to play with another people.
I have used a downloaded NTSC 1.02 iso and played alone with good performance (60 FPS @ 1024x768). ¿Are other european players using also this version or PAL version?
¿Have anyone tried to playing between USA and Europe? ¿Is there a lot of lag? ¿Is possible to measure the lag in milliseconds?
¿Is there any reliable USB adaptor for GCN controller? I have googled a bit and seen some products that don't look very good. ¿Any experiences?
I would like to test the online play with someone, but no one was in the IRC.
Please excuse me if some of my questions are already answered but I have not read the whole thread (quit large, 32 pages) and for bad english.
Thank you.
Fishaman P
Smash Apprentice
You mentioned that you downloaded the NTSC 1.02 ISO, but I'll let it slide since it seems you have the PAL version. For future reference, this app can change your PAL ISO into an NTSC version, which can then be changed to more versions.
Most people around the world use the NTSC 1.02 ISO since it is the most common. The lag across oceans is generally higher than local, but if you have a great connection (fiber?) then it should be acceptable. The best USB adapters are the 2-player Mayflash (commercial product, try Amazon) and the 1-player Raphnet (supports rumble and analog L/R for light shielding).
I have the PAL version (original disc) but my dvd drive doesn't read the disc so I can not use Rawdump to create the ISO so I can not apply any fixes. To test the emulator I downloaded NTSC 1.02 because the first post said so.
I have a HFC (Hybrid fiber coax) connection. Playing for example Counter-Strike in spanish servers I get about 10~20 ms, in europeans servers about double (40~50 ms).
Supposing I keep using NTSC, which generates 60 fps, a fps is about 0.016 seconds. Then I would have lag about 2 o 3 frames playing in europe. ¿Is this acceptable for playing? I hope yes.
I have not played CS in american servers so I am not aware of real lag measurements, but I can suppose about 100-120 ms. That would be double lag. ¿Acceptable? It should been tested.
Thank you for the GCN adaptor links, I will check them right now.
I have a HFC (Hybrid fiber coax) connection. Playing for example Counter-Strike in spanish servers I get about 10~20 ms, in europeans servers about double (40~50 ms).
Supposing I keep using NTSC, which generates 60 fps, a fps is about 0.016 seconds. Then I would have lag about 2 o 3 frames playing in europe. ¿Is this acceptable for playing? I hope yes.
I have not played CS in american servers so I am not aware of real lag measurements, but I can suppose about 100-120 ms. That would be double lag. ¿Acceptable? It should been tested.
Thank you for the GCN adaptor links, I will check them right now.
Okey... about adaptors..
That mayflash adaptor doesn't allow L/R buttons work well so it's not useful. The another one (http://www.raphnet-tech.com/products/gamecube_to_usb/index.php) is really expensive, I wanted to buy 2 adaptors, but that would be a lot of money... ¿Any other options?
That mayflash adaptor doesn't allow L/R buttons work well so it's not useful. The another one (http://www.raphnet-tech.com/products/gamecube_to_usb/index.php) is really expensive, I wanted to buy 2 adaptors, but that would be a lot of money... ¿Any other options?
telemaster
Chime and Twang
magic joybox
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