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[blindhobo]

James Chen made a really good point at the end when asked for commentary advice about "focusing on the why and not the what." It's not like it's a new idea but i would personally love to see Smash commentary in general move more towards that analytical and educational direction while still making it accessible, especially when being broadcasted to a wider audience. I recall being particularly impressed with people like Fly and Wobbles doing commentary. I think Scar and Toph did a great job at NCR too.

also was kind of bummed that Melee at NCR was at the same time as Marvel top 32. IIRC Wizard said that top 8 for 3 games was going to be on saturday instead of sunday since there was no way they could finish top 8 for every game on sunday like they've traditionally done. i would assume that the three games with the lowest entrants get the Saturday slot or something like that. EVO Sunday is great because there's nothing else really going on so it draws more viewers but also because every game gets its little show. i know i've personally watched every game on sunday even if i don't know a lot about it and that kind of exposure is great. i would feel a little sad for the games that got the Saturday slot because there most likely would be something running at the same time (e.g. AE or Marvel 3 top 64/32) and that would give people the excuse of "well x is on so why would i watch y." but hey i guess some exposure is better than none.

 

[Revven]

Best episode of MioM? Best episode. I don't know how Scar will top Episode 11; having James Chen on will be difficult to beat.

I was really impressed that you even asked the right questions. I was worried it was gonna be "awkward hour with James Chen" like it kind of was with SkiSonic.

I really think the next step to make MioM more known in the community, as a bigger deal, is to have a promo trailer for it that streams like vgbootcamp and ClashTournaments can use. Something like this except maybe on a smaller scale (start small, then get better). I don't think a lot of the community, aside from those already in the FB group and who visit this thread, know how important this show really is. And really, it's pretty much our only bi-weekly show about the community. It's wonderful how this has grown up, really, and I'd like to see it grow more. We technically have a "brand" here, that can help get new people invested in our community; even if it's just a couple of guys in the scene talking on Skype about what's happening in our community.

Just an idea.

Edit: Correction! Second best episode. Can't believe I forgot about the spirit bomb episode.

 

[prog]

Best episode of MioM? Best episode. I don't know how Scar will top Episode 11; having James Chen on will be difficult to beat.

I was really impressed that you even asked the right questions. I was worried it was gonna be "awkward hour with James Chen" like it kind of was with SkiSonic.

I really think the next step to make MioM more known in the community, as a bigger deal, is to have a promo trailer for it that streams like vgbootcamp and ClashTournaments can use. Something like this except maybe on a smaller scale (start small, then get better). I don't think a lot of the community, aside from those already in the FB group and who visit this thread, know how important this show really is. And really, it's pretty much our only bi-weekly show about the community. It's wonderful how this has grown up, really, and I'd like to see it grow more. We technically have a "brand" here, that can help get new people invested in our community; even if it's just a couple of guys in the scene talking on Skype about what's happening in our community.

Just an idea.

#2, the spirit bomb was certainly the best episode.

And yeah, I guess I'll throw together a generic intro for the show as well as a bump.

 

[Revven]

#2, the spirit bomb was certainly the best episode.

And yeah, I guess I'll throw together a generic intro for the show as well as a bump.

Oh yeah, episode 2 does top this one. Lol, I'm being silly. I guess it's the 2nd best episode then!

 

[Divinokage]

eueghe

Pretty much, ****** don't want to give me any credit.. ever.. for some odd reason. Idk why.. =(

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

Really good show.

Probably the best yet (excluding the spirit bomb obv)

 

[R2_GP]

i got hyped when James chen said all that nice things about melee, amazing episode!

 

[Upke]

I got hyped when Chen mentioned Edge Battles!

But seriously, the man knows when to get hyped despite being outside of the Melee community. Unexpected gimps, amazing recoveries, upsets, the whole shebang. It may not be a good video for his segment, but I would still suggest that he watch You Must Recover! in his free time, just because I think he'd really enjoy it.

 

[MajorMoses]

IMO, game one of M2K vs Mango in APEX 2013 losers semi-finals would be the best example of off-the-ledge gameplay.

 

[Atlus8]

also was kind of bummed that Melee at NCR was at the same time as Marvel top 32. IIRC Wizard said that top 8 for 3 games was going to be on saturday instead of sunday since there was no way they could finish top 8 for every game on sunday like they've traditionally done. i would assume that the three games with the lowest entrants get the Saturday slot or something like that. EVO Sunday is great because there's nothing else really going on so it draws more viewers but also because every game gets its little show. i know i've personally watched every game on sunday even if i don't know a lot about it and that kind of exposure is great. i would feel a little sad for the games that got the Saturday slot because there most likely would be something running at the same time (e.g. AE or Marvel 3 top 64/32) and that would give people the excuse of "well x is on so why would i watch y." but hey i guess some exposure is better than none.

Yes! If I were to take a guess at which finals are gonna take place on Saturday it would have to be P4A, SFxT and TTT2! I say P4A because the scene is definitely the smallest out of the whole EVO line-up! Back in EVO2011, I think the first game to be played on finals day was BlazBlue and I remember many empty seats despite people actually being in the ballroom. Same thing for Tekken 6 that year! SFxT will have many entrants, but there was almost no hype for the game last year! Biggest thing that I can remember was Laugh and Infiltration getting the sick combo on Ricky! The game is great to play, but watching it is pretty boring!

Sunday finals is where it's going to get tricky! No doubt, UMvC3 and AE2012 will be saved for last! The dream would be to have Melee third to last game being played since the ballroom will most definitely be filled up and many people will be watching the livestream by then! So, I think the first game on finals day on Sunday will most likely be MK9! The game had the second lowest entrants last year, but it did deliver the hype on Sunday! If Perfect Legend makes it to top 8 this year, you can bet that people will be watching if he can take it a third time! After MK9 is where I think Melee would go up next! This is one thing that makes me glad that Armada isn't going! No way of having Y.Link vs Puff running the damn clock! I'm sure we will have better finals at this than at Apex! KOF, UMvC3 and AE2012 will wrap up the day!

 

[KrIsP!]

I just want to remind everybody that the Skull Girls side tournament is going to be streamed for their top 8, that will probably be put on saturday. I doubt SFxT will be on saturday though, but hopefully we can grab KoF's spot from last year (before SF and MvC). The game runs longer that most other games, as do we...so hopefully. I'd rather have Saturday night then Sunday morning but I'm really just hoping they pamper us for raising so much money and don't give us a ****ty slot lol.

 

[Bones0]

Forgive me for not assuming Melee won't get some gdlk time slot right, but when can we expect a schedule?

nb4skullgirlsgetsabetterslot

 

[Tarv]

Are you guys still looking for match suggestions to showcase or have I missed my chance?

 

[Scar]

It's still being discussed but I'm not sure what the decision mechanism is right now. Revven has been doing a lot of great work organzing - but yeah definitely post links to what you think would make great matches to discuss and why! Bonus points for timestamps for awesome moments, etc.

 

[Revven]

Okay so... after talking a bunch with Scar it's been decided that there will be a "revote" of the 3 matches to use on the UltraChenTV episode about SSBM.

Let me be absolutely clear so I don't get hated on for what's in the polls: some of the options were suggested to me and after looking at them I felt they were pretty good and easy to watch for a *new viewer*. This episode will primarily be about teaching viewers who haven't watched SSBM before what to look for and understand it. This means a hype match for us isn't necessarily a hype match for the new viewer. With that viewpoint in mind, I made three different categories (one for each match, thus three polls and three matches).

I also made sure they were recent, barring one or two matches. There's a HUGE amount of sets spanning over 20+ minutes in length on youtube that I simply cannot nor do I have the time to sit through and watch. When it comes down to it, we want people to recognize SSBM for its *current metagame* and look for things that they can apply to our current meta for easier viewing (especially since EVO is around the corner!)

Keep in mind that while the some of the same players crop up in each poll, it doesn't mean they'll be shown twice or anything. The option you pick for each poll only goes to that one poll. And even if it winds up where there's, say, two M2K matches so what? It means the viewer has *some* basis from the previous match to try and understand that player's choices on the episode before Scar, James, and David tackle what went on. And it would benefit the three of them because they could make comparisons from the other match, if needed.

Anyway, wall of text etc. Please just vote, but don't just vote for the match you *know* and like already! Watch each match through and then decide from there. I cannot stress enough how skewed the results would be if you just voted for the one you knew; keep in mind WHO is going to be watching this and WHO is going to be analyzing/explaining it to the viewers.

Match 1: http://poll.pollcode.com/mb19n
Match 2: http://poll.pollcode.com/pfwbk
Match 3: http://poll.pollcode.com/y7xsk

Thanks for reading and let's just get this decided already!

Oh and ignore any silly typos; if you want to make sure the one you're voting for is the right match you think it is c/p the youtube link. All the youtube links are correct for the matches (that's why I put them there lol).

 

[Ziodyne]

Out of curiosity, for the M2k PP set at Zenith, why did you choose Game 3 from GF1 and not GF2?

Game 3 from GF2 included Mew2king's super hype comeback combo at the end.

 

[Upke]

I love how all three participating videos in the ledge game poll are very rightly featuring M2K.

 

[Revven]

Out of curiosity, for the M2k PP set at Zenith, why did you choose Game 3 from GF1 and not GF2?

Game 3 from GF2 included Mew2king's super hype comeback combo at the end.

I simply wanted a match that was close with very little separation in stocks. I liked the overall gameplay in the game I chose, I guess. "Hype" in matches had very little weight in what I chose.

The way I see it is, a hype comeback combo isn't going to sell people the game (or rather, get them to watch it). Other aspects need to be seen more clearly so there's, essentially, "more to it" to the viewer. And that's always been Smash's problem: people don't realize the underlying depth in its mechanisms and system; much less understand it. As it is, I already have Shiz vs M2K and Mango vs M2K in there; along with Dr. PP vs Armada (which also contains its own "comeback" combo on the last stock, even though it doesn't lead to him winning. Which is far more interesting when you think about it). So that said, I felt the game I chose in that set (Dr. PP vs M2K at Zenith) was good enough and showed some nice back and forth between them (esp. at the end).

 

[Ziodyne]

I simply wanted a match that was close with very little separation in stocks. I liked the overall gameplay in the game I chose, I guess. "Hype" in matches had very little weight in what I chose.

Well, we want to show the FGC the best we have to offer, no? Though, if you felt that there was something very important in that game that we can show to other people, I won't argue about it.

Obviously, you don't just look for hype and randomly decide, "hey, this would be a nice pick," but hype usually denotes an amazing moment or a buildup of great proportions to an already great set. The hype combo mew2king pulls off on Dr. PP does more than get the crowd hot, it also can show people how fast momentum can just SWING in our game.

 

[Tarv]

@Revven: In the second poll the m2k vs. mango match links to Game 4 but the choice in the poll says Game 3. Game 3 would have been when they went to FD but the timestamp goes to their game on PS. Just wanted to clarify which choice it was. Thanks!

Never mind.


Also: Kind of surprised nothing with Mango was chosen for the footsie category, I mean he is more or less the Lord of the (dash) dance. LF and GF of NCR showcases Mango's movement really nicely. Might not be the best choice for showcasing spacing to new comers though. So yeah, I guess I can understand the reasoning but just saying no one showcases melee's movement better than mango

 

[Revven]

I thought about Mango's play at NCR11 but I think Marth as a character is easier to see, visually, how he's spacing and what not as a new viewer.

 

[Tarv]

Yeah, I agree with that. Marth's spacing is definitely easier to showcase for the newer player. Nice work otherwise,

 

[Theftz22]

I think the sheik vs fox on DL for m2k vs mango at apex in game 1 of that losers set is better than the marth falco on PS. Like Doggy said, almost that whole match is off the ledge.

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

I agree with the above. Furthermore, these videos may become saturated with marth play. I guess it isn't a very close match though. :/

Actually, Revven, what do you think in particular is better about game 3 set 1 of zenith 2012 as opposed to game 3 set 2? I guess I am just a bit sad since that combo at the end was one of my favorite moments of last year.

Also, yeah so SFAT v Fly Amanita is sort of cool, but the reason he got a grab was SFAT missing a waveland. :/

 

[Revven]

I think the sheik vs fox on DL for m2k vs mango at apex in game 1 of that losers set is better than the marth falco on PS. Like Doggy said, almost that whole match is off the ledge.

What I might do is, if Mango vs M2K Game 3 wins the match 2 poll is create another poll asking if Game 1 should replace it instead. I can't change the poll without completely redoing it (thus losing all the votes thus far) and, while people did vote for a Mango vs M2K match, it wouldn't be fair to essentially "change" what they voted for without their consent. People might actually think Game 3 is a better choice anyway.

As far as "oversaturation" of Marth goes; he's a very easy character to use as an example to introduce players who are familiar with other FGs to. You can clearly see how the player is moving, spacing, attacking, etc. He's not like Fox where everything you see is almost impossible to figure out. He's also not a complex character to explain with an upwards of 50 different things going on at one time that the three people who are going to be going through these matches will have to explain.

If I had asked anyone and everyone what 5 matches for each poll should be, it's likely none of them would match up at all. Especially when you consider what everyone's favorite player is, character, match-up, hype (hype seems to have a crapton of a factor for some people even though this episode isn't really for you but for *new* people) and so on. And already it's like I chose the wrong matches or the ones I chose "aren't good enough". Maybe they're not for us, but a new viewer? Definitely fine enough.

I stress again that while this stuff may be shown to people like David and James, a lot of the viewers are people who are going to be completely new to it. It's easier on both the people sharing it with them and the viewers if it's stuff they can easily "digest", so to speak.

You have to keep in mind these matches are being explained, not just watched and then, "okay we're done". If people really want stuff like this to be done regularly for their favorite matches, Scar did create the Smash Lab for a reason (which he hasn't had the time to continue I guess). And that would be the opportunity to revisit those matches. And if Scar plugged that on the episode, alongside MioM, then those same viewers may appear in there and see the stuff you guys also want them to see.

I just picked what was recent, showed most aspects of Melee while also showing the main category they were in, and anything that's unique about our game.

A missed waveland isn't "just" a missed waveland. It shows how hard you can be punished for anything, even a simple waveland. Is that not something a new viewer should look for when watching EVO? I think it is. That match also shows a character that's likely going to be in EVO Top 8, too! What's better than that, really? (Or at least, will be at EVO in full force lol).

 

[Juggleguy]

PP/Armada Apex 2013 from the poll links to Game 9 of Grand Finals, not Game 7. And in any case, neither of those are better showcases of spacing/footsies than Game 5 in my opinion.

 

[Tarv]

Is there no episode this week?

 

[prog]

Nope, (generally) bi-weekly.

 

[Revven]

Alright, it's been about 5 days or so since I put up the polls about the matches UltraChenTV will be using for their episode about SSBM. The leaders of the polls haven't changed much and I figure they're not going to change much more if I gave it another day or two.

So, that said, here are the three that came out on top:

Dr. PP vs Armada final game of GFs at Apex 2013 (I was really sick when I made the poll so I typo'd which game # it was in the poll)
Mango vs M2K Game 4 at Apex 2013 (Same as above)
Fly Amanita vs SFAT Big House 2 Game 5

However, with regards to Mango vs M2K, it was brought to my attention that Game 1 has far more emphasis on the ledge. And while I do find Game 4 to be great all on its own, I can't help but want to have Game 1 instead. I don't feel it's fair though to just change the match without your guys' consent; as after all you voted for Game 4 not Game 1.

Therefore, I'm leaving it up to you guys again. Another poll, but only for this match. Should Game 4 be exchanged with Game 1? Or keep Game 4? Keep in mind that while Game 4 is the memorable game of the set, Game 1 is ridiculous, constantly at the ledge, and would be awesome to show on UltraChenTV.

I feel it makes sense to vote over this because it's the same set but just different games within it. If some other option won the poll, this wouldn't be happening.

Vote here please: http://poll.pollcode.com/574i5

Match links are in the poll itself for your convenience.

 

[prog]

^ Vote gang.

I'll likely miss the next episode (prepping for a live show next Thursday), but I did want to bring up the side doubles event. With two days of pools, is that considered a pipe dream?

 

[primes2113]

Why not show this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjfzExt_TTE

Maybe along with a couple of matches. Lesson then application.

 

[Revven]

Okay so it's been a whole day since I asked about whether or not to switch out Mango vs M2K Game 4 with Game 1. Thus, given the amount of votes so far and how I said I was going to end it after a day, the results came out as:

26 said to exchange it for Game 1
9 said to keep Game 4

As a result, we're going to exchange it for Game 1. With that said, the three matches for UltraChenTV are as follows:

Dr. PP vs Armada final game of GFs (Game 9?) at Apex 2013
Mango vs M2K Game 1 at Apex 2013
Fly Amanita vs SFAT Game 5 at Big House 2

Thanks for taking the time to vote and etc. It's much appreciated we were finally able to narrow this down; I'll notify Scar and hopefully we can get the UltraChenTV episode dated soon!

For the matches that didn't get chosen: ask Scar to start up the Smash Lab again. Sure, it might not be the same audience as UltrachenTV but if he plugs his stream channel at the end of the episode it may gain that audience slowly. Whatever the case may be, we're set for this now. No more suggestions are needed!
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why not show this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjfzExt_TTE

Maybe along with a couple of matches. Lesson then application.

Because that can be watched on your own time. And taking up 20 minutes with a show that's typically an hour long isn't smart. There's also no discussion value, they'd be sitting there for the whole time if that was being shown. James Chen is going to be plugging that video though before or after the episode, anyway, which should be enough.

 

[MVP]

scar, have you tried PM?

 

[Revven]

Hype hype! Today is the day!

 

[Bones0]

What is going down, and when/where is it happening?

 

[Revven]

www.twitch.tv/bobby_scar as always is the where, the when is 9 PM EST/6 PM PST, and the what is discussion of current events and EVO related things I imagine.

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

is ultra chen tv today

 

[Bones0]

www.twitch.tv/bobby_scar as always is the where, the when is 9 PM EST/6 PM PST, and the what is discussion of current events and EVO related things I imagine.

Do you know when the UltraChen show is going to be?

 

[Juggleguy]

Gonna assume UltraChen show is on for the 29th. Scar said tonight would be a dry run of analysis for the three games.

 

[Revven]

Do you know when the UltraChen show is going to be?

Nothing's been set in stone because they haven't figured out how they're going to work it out if Scar can't travel out to SoCal. Maybe he'll update us on that I guess tonight.

Also, UltraChen would most likely be on a Monday or Tuesday, it's going to be on their stream not on MioM. So that leaves next Monday/Tuesday open really. They have Injustice planned for next Monday, I think on both their shows (James and David have their own shows on Mondays, First Attack and Level 3 Focus)? And then next Tuesday (aptly named Tuesday Show, where they talk about or go over anything) would be open for SSBM if Scar would prefer to take care of the episode asap. Otherwise, they could schedule it a week after that if things can't work out over Skype.

Here's their stream link if you want to check out their video archives on how their shows are done: www.twitch.tv/ultrachentv