TaFoKiNtS
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2005
- Messages
- 1,027
Apex brought many exciting matches with plenty of hype and excitement. Now that the hype has died down a bit, let’s discuss players and their results. Similar to ESPN.com’s 5 on 5 NBA column, we are starting a weekly column in which we’ll ask five questions to a panel of community members.
1. What was the most exciting match for you to watch at Apex?
David Macdonald, KirbyKaze, Canada: Armada vs. Dr. PP GF. Definitely Armada versus PP, the fifth match of the first set in GFs. PP is fighting for his life against the best player in the world on a match point. The fact that the set is on Final Destination of all stages seems so classic Melee.
The whole relationship between Armada and PP as players is reminiscent of old M2K / PC Chris back in 2007. You have this extremely structured player whose technical consistency is sizeably stronger than the rest of the field. M2K then, Armada now. This player is the quintessential “play-to-win” player; David Sirlin would be proud. Unafraid of timing opponents out, hyper conservative gameplay, and doing the utmost to win – this player almost embodies the game purified to tactical perfection. In contrast, you are presented with such a freeform player who also possesses an immense capacity for technical execution and yet they aren’t famous for that. Instead, there’s a classiness to their character control and some real strut to their stride. This man is here to win but he’s here to do it his way. The American way. In style. Not so much style, mind you, that it interferes with their ability to win but very few will deny that Chris and Kevin have swag.
So after a crushing defeat in finals, between the only man who consistently makes Falco look like a garbage player, PP has busted out his incredible Marth and we’re getting Marth versus Peach on a caliber that looks better than when M2K fought Armada in the old days. And he’s doing this just after losing to him in a lopsided WFs. PP always comes back strong from loser’s bracket, but the intensity to his play in this set was like something out of Pound 5.
The match itself hangs close. Every exchange draws gasps, screams, and other twitch-responses from the crowd. Everyone in the room is watching. The announcers actually have to announce to the Brawl players that they are still in a tournament but nobody can peel their eyes from the projection on the wall.
And then the long overdue boom of a tipper forward smash on one of the hardest reads on a Peach. Hit through the air-dodge endlag before she landed. No jump. No float. She’s offstage, tumbling and she uses her last option. Total silence in the room as Kevin moves in for the jugular. Marth’s spike. PP should hit this but so many have been in this position and failed the gimp. M2K versus PP at ROM3, for instance. The entire crowd is holding their breath.
BOOM. The climactic ending to a world class Marth versus Armada’s Peach that has been overdue since Pound 4. PP takes the set win that M2K’s legendary Marth never could. The entire room explodes. Just writing this sends chills up my spine. Armada stares at the screen, unblinking as Marth holds his victory pose on the winning screen. For just a moment on the world champion’s face is the same expression he had when he lost to Silent Spectre but then it steels itself with a resolve to win as the gears begin to turn and process this new challenge. Meanwhile, on the American side of the finals setup, PP returns to Earth from cloud nine as the cries subside.
And then the two begin to stage strike for the second set. As if this moment wasn’t enough, we now get another set of these two. It’s Christmas.
Robin Harn, Juggleguy, Michigan: Armada vs Dr. PP GF. Hate to go with the obvious answer here, but the two sets played by these guys were on an entirely different level than any others from this past weekend. You just don't bring out your secondary character and go toe-to-toe with Armada... you just don't. Well, unless your name is Dr. PeePee. It was really refreshing to see a classic character matchup reignited: this was probably the most high-level Marth vs Peach match in Melee history.
Jason Yoon, Bizzarro Flame, Norcal: Armada vs. Dr.PP GF. The most exciting match was the grand finals between Armada v. Dr. PeePee, which I watched through a livestream. I have to admit: I thought Dr. PeePee was being too overconfident in his Marth when he broke out his character in the first match of the first set. But after witnessing the first win, I started to cheer for Dr. PeePee (I never cheered for PP in my life). The adrenaline was running through my body and I felt the sweat running through my palms. I remember playfully punching my smash guest’s arm (Justin Santos) everytime PP took a stock. I was a bit disappointed when I realized Armada solidly adapted to Dr. PeePee’s marth in the second set and won the set (3-1), but I am sure the excitement will carry over to the next national tournament when these two juggernauts meet again.
Eric Lee, Violence, Canada: Armada vs. Dr. PP GF. When it looked hopeless, Kevin Nanney's Marth surprised the world by taking a set off of Armada. He was a bit lax on a few parts of his game, and there were a few spots where it was apparent that Kevin's Marth was not his main, but his spacing, his approaches, his punishes, his pokes, they were all top level. It was huge improvement to last year's grand finals, a refreshing set, and I hope we see more of this Marth in the future.
2. Who was your breakout surprise player at Apex?
David Macdonald, KirbyKaze, Canada: Plup and Silentwolf. I’m probably gonna get some weird looks for this but I think it’s between Plup and Silent Wolf. If I had to pick, I would probably go with Silent Wolf. For a chunk of time, Silent Wolf has been a decent player but doomed to a certain placement threshold for one reason or another. Much like Falcomist’s famous series of 9th places, Otto usually hovers around the 17th place spot and has never really done better than that. At this, not only does he break his placement curse but also takes down one of the premiere up and coming Marth players – a player projected to place extremely well at this by his supporters and a player who eviscerated him at the big Rule 6 in the summer. Virtually everyone thought PPU would roll the famous fast Fox but instead we’re treated to a cavalcade of shine combos. Wins over arguably his region’s strongest player (Bladewise), one of EC’s finest Foxes (Eggm), and a Japan’s very own GUCCI are not bad prizes either. Impressive performance, definitely wasn’t expecting it. Good stuff.
Robin Harn, Juggleguy, Michigan: Vwins. It's hard to call Vwins a breakout player since he's pretty much been around since the dawn of time. Still, he's never had a run like this through a national bracket: wins over Westballz, Bladewise, Arc, Diakonos, Wobbles, and Zhu; two losses to Mango. Who saw that coming, especially after he was bounced early from bracket pools with just a 3rd seed?
Jason Yoon, Bizzarro Flame, Norcal: Vwins. would have to be Vwins at 9th place. If I recall correctly, his last national tournament was Genesis 1 at 13th place (I am excluding Impulse; no impressive wins). His performance here proved that his inactiveness had no grounds in terms of predicting his placement. I really did not expect him to break into the top ten. He beat Zhu, Westballz, Bladewise, and Wobbles.
Eric Lee, Violence, Canada: Silent Wolf. I've been living in the Northwest for the past couple years, and I've seen Otto's play.... mature, I think is the right word, over the past few years. People dismiss him as a flashy player who multishines and makes cool tech skill videos, but never really gets anywhere in tournament. He explained it to me over the past year when he finally lost his top spot in Washington to Bladewise(who he unfortunately had to eliminate in loser's bracket), that his tech skill was good because he focused on it and thought about it, but it wasn't enough at top level play. Focus on moves, get hit because you weren't focusing on your moves. Focus on hitting your opponent, flub your tech skill because you weren't thinking about it. Otto is one of the most knowledgeable and smart players that I know of, but because he plays like this, people often get the impression that he playstyle is "dumb," or "flashy." Obviously tech skill had to be internalized, like for most of us, but the way Otto plays is very technically demanding. As other players in the Northwest like Sion and Bladewise grew strong enough to push him to his limits, his tech skill became more and more internalized. His playstyle has become more dynamic, and his decisions have been much smarter. Instead of focusing on buttons, he's been focusing on his opponent's habits and mentality. He soon regained his title as top of the Northwest, though Bladewise is not giving up his push to the top without a fight.
3. Which player had the most disappointing results?
David Macdonald, KirbyKaze, Canada: Westballz*. I hate this question simply because there are so many people that I can put here. The whole bracket pools structure affords such a smaller room for error and the 128 man bracket introduces a lot more room for variation in results. I could say I was disappointed in Westballz for placing 33rd but his losses were to Shroomed and Vwins. Shroomed and Vwins did spectacularly and are known, ranked players with numerous wins and strong reputation. Lose to 5th and 9th to get 33rd? At this point, since the bracket is so wild, I almost think the placement of 33rd is meaningless.
Robin Harn, Juggleguy, Michigan: Kels. Calling out my fellow Midwest brethren here. As the number one Midwest player in attendance at Apex, you gotta do better than go 1-2 in bracket, losing to SilentSwag and Nintendude while beating only Inui. Other regions must be calling the Midwest silly names after seeing that performance... and I can't blame them. Step it up Kelly.
Jason Yoon, Bizzarro Flame, Norcal: Javi had the most disappointing result, especially in front of tens of thousands of spectators. He was one of the players who was expected to break at least the top ten of the results, especially with an impressive fourth place at Apex 2012. Although I am personally not a fan of Javi, I felt that Javi could have been the next Armada, as in exceeding everyone’s expectation (as in Genesis 1). On top of that, his performance was mediocre at best in the U.S. vs. the World Crew Battles, although this is beside the main point.
Eric Lee, Violence, Canada: SFAT. Zac is the homie, and he's one of the pride and joy of Norcal. Any tournament where he doesn't do well is a bit of a disappointment, but I noticed a lack of him on the stream, and it just made me a bit sad. We all know Zac is capable of great things, and all we can do is encourage him to step it up at the next event. I'm sure he feels the same way.
4. Going into Apex 2014, who do you think will have the biggest jump in placement?
David Macdonald, KirbyKaze, Canada: DJ Nintendo. I don’t like this question. Mainly because this tournament was a huge change from how tournaments are normally run and it promotes a huge jump in variance. Though the stage list remained fairly conservative, eliminating the round robin format for the elimination rounds (for example) reduces the amount of warm-up time for technical players playing early in the day. Changes like this can make or break your chances of making bracket or getting a good seeding – a lot of space animals I had hopes for at this event flubbed bracket entry to tech errors.
However, that doesn’t answer the question. Assuming attendance is similar next year as it was at this one, I think it’ll be DJ Nintendo. Say what you will about his style but the man is more skilled than 65th. Again, this is where a 128 man bracket and a volatile pools system affords a lot of serious underperformances. I could use a lot of people here; I didn’t think about this too carefully.
Robin Harn, Juggleguy, Michigan: GUCCI. I'm a big believer that top international talent performs much better at their second tourney in the states (exception: Amsah), whether it's due to nerves, adjustment to the crowd noise, or PAL vs NTSC differences. Though he already performed admirably this year -- picking up a win over Westballz in bracket pools and placing 25th overall -- GUCCI will be back even stronger next time.
Jason Yoon, Bizzarro Flame, Norcal: This is such a tough question. I feel like I need more national tournament experience to answer this question accurately, but KirbyKaze should have the biggest jump in placement for the next Apex. According to word of mouth, he is very dedicated and high in spirits. And we all know what it takes to be the top: a witty player who has the dedication and drive to win it all.
Eric Lee, Violence, Canada: Westballz, That crazy son of a ***** is one of the most inconsistent players we have in California. He's a confident, sharp-tongued, hungry young prodigy, and he has one of the greatest potentials in our state as well. He unfortunately ran into VWins and Dajuan early, and Dajuan managed to beat him though they go back and forth in California. In the end, his performance was lower than expected, and I'm sure he will agree wholeheartedly. I'm sure if he attends next year, he'll bring that Socal fire he's famous for.
5. Who was the best player that did not make it into bracket?
David Macdonald, KirbyKaze, Canada: Unknown522
Robin Harn, Juggleguy, Michigan: Frootloop. Going from 7th place at The Big House 2 to not making it into bracket at Apex 2013 is a pretty significant fall. Anyone who had hoped for more Frootloop magic after his wins over Lovage and Westballz last October was sadly mistaken! Rumor has it he went all Marth in bracket pools -- that ain't PP, folks.
Jason Yoon, Bizzarro Flame, Norcal: Toph. I would have to say Toph was the best player out of everyone who drowned in pools. I have mad personal bias in this answer, but when I played with him recently, he had everything a top player had: great technical skills, good understanding of the game, good execution, and so on. However, I did realize that he seems inconsistent as in his environment affects him. Although I do not know his state of mind or his emotional state during Apex, I am quite disappointed and sad he did not make it into bracket.
Eric Lee, Violence, Canada: Toph. That guy can get 3rd in locals in the Northwest, places high in Norcal to boot. He's done decently at regionals like the Big House 2 and Kings of Cali, so to see him not able to make bracket is quite a shock. I'm sure he didn't expect it either, but such is the way bracket pools works. 2 losses, you're out.
1. What was the most exciting match for you to watch at Apex?
David Macdonald, KirbyKaze, Canada: Armada vs. Dr. PP GF. Definitely Armada versus PP, the fifth match of the first set in GFs. PP is fighting for his life against the best player in the world on a match point. The fact that the set is on Final Destination of all stages seems so classic Melee.
The whole relationship between Armada and PP as players is reminiscent of old M2K / PC Chris back in 2007. You have this extremely structured player whose technical consistency is sizeably stronger than the rest of the field. M2K then, Armada now. This player is the quintessential “play-to-win” player; David Sirlin would be proud. Unafraid of timing opponents out, hyper conservative gameplay, and doing the utmost to win – this player almost embodies the game purified to tactical perfection. In contrast, you are presented with such a freeform player who also possesses an immense capacity for technical execution and yet they aren’t famous for that. Instead, there’s a classiness to their character control and some real strut to their stride. This man is here to win but he’s here to do it his way. The American way. In style. Not so much style, mind you, that it interferes with their ability to win but very few will deny that Chris and Kevin have swag.
So after a crushing defeat in finals, between the only man who consistently makes Falco look like a garbage player, PP has busted out his incredible Marth and we’re getting Marth versus Peach on a caliber that looks better than when M2K fought Armada in the old days. And he’s doing this just after losing to him in a lopsided WFs. PP always comes back strong from loser’s bracket, but the intensity to his play in this set was like something out of Pound 5.
The match itself hangs close. Every exchange draws gasps, screams, and other twitch-responses from the crowd. Everyone in the room is watching. The announcers actually have to announce to the Brawl players that they are still in a tournament but nobody can peel their eyes from the projection on the wall.
And then the long overdue boom of a tipper forward smash on one of the hardest reads on a Peach. Hit through the air-dodge endlag before she landed. No jump. No float. She’s offstage, tumbling and she uses her last option. Total silence in the room as Kevin moves in for the jugular. Marth’s spike. PP should hit this but so many have been in this position and failed the gimp. M2K versus PP at ROM3, for instance. The entire crowd is holding their breath.
BOOM. The climactic ending to a world class Marth versus Armada’s Peach that has been overdue since Pound 4. PP takes the set win that M2K’s legendary Marth never could. The entire room explodes. Just writing this sends chills up my spine. Armada stares at the screen, unblinking as Marth holds his victory pose on the winning screen. For just a moment on the world champion’s face is the same expression he had when he lost to Silent Spectre but then it steels itself with a resolve to win as the gears begin to turn and process this new challenge. Meanwhile, on the American side of the finals setup, PP returns to Earth from cloud nine as the cries subside.
And then the two begin to stage strike for the second set. As if this moment wasn’t enough, we now get another set of these two. It’s Christmas.
Robin Harn, Juggleguy, Michigan: Armada vs Dr. PP GF. Hate to go with the obvious answer here, but the two sets played by these guys were on an entirely different level than any others from this past weekend. You just don't bring out your secondary character and go toe-to-toe with Armada... you just don't. Well, unless your name is Dr. PeePee. It was really refreshing to see a classic character matchup reignited: this was probably the most high-level Marth vs Peach match in Melee history.
Jason Yoon, Bizzarro Flame, Norcal: Armada vs. Dr.PP GF. The most exciting match was the grand finals between Armada v. Dr. PeePee, which I watched through a livestream. I have to admit: I thought Dr. PeePee was being too overconfident in his Marth when he broke out his character in the first match of the first set. But after witnessing the first win, I started to cheer for Dr. PeePee (I never cheered for PP in my life). The adrenaline was running through my body and I felt the sweat running through my palms. I remember playfully punching my smash guest’s arm (Justin Santos) everytime PP took a stock. I was a bit disappointed when I realized Armada solidly adapted to Dr. PeePee’s marth in the second set and won the set (3-1), but I am sure the excitement will carry over to the next national tournament when these two juggernauts meet again.
Eric Lee, Violence, Canada: Armada vs. Dr. PP GF. When it looked hopeless, Kevin Nanney's Marth surprised the world by taking a set off of Armada. He was a bit lax on a few parts of his game, and there were a few spots where it was apparent that Kevin's Marth was not his main, but his spacing, his approaches, his punishes, his pokes, they were all top level. It was huge improvement to last year's grand finals, a refreshing set, and I hope we see more of this Marth in the future.
2. Who was your breakout surprise player at Apex?
David Macdonald, KirbyKaze, Canada: Plup and Silentwolf. I’m probably gonna get some weird looks for this but I think it’s between Plup and Silent Wolf. If I had to pick, I would probably go with Silent Wolf. For a chunk of time, Silent Wolf has been a decent player but doomed to a certain placement threshold for one reason or another. Much like Falcomist’s famous series of 9th places, Otto usually hovers around the 17th place spot and has never really done better than that. At this, not only does he break his placement curse but also takes down one of the premiere up and coming Marth players – a player projected to place extremely well at this by his supporters and a player who eviscerated him at the big Rule 6 in the summer. Virtually everyone thought PPU would roll the famous fast Fox but instead we’re treated to a cavalcade of shine combos. Wins over arguably his region’s strongest player (Bladewise), one of EC’s finest Foxes (Eggm), and a Japan’s very own GUCCI are not bad prizes either. Impressive performance, definitely wasn’t expecting it. Good stuff.
Robin Harn, Juggleguy, Michigan: Vwins. It's hard to call Vwins a breakout player since he's pretty much been around since the dawn of time. Still, he's never had a run like this through a national bracket: wins over Westballz, Bladewise, Arc, Diakonos, Wobbles, and Zhu; two losses to Mango. Who saw that coming, especially after he was bounced early from bracket pools with just a 3rd seed?
Jason Yoon, Bizzarro Flame, Norcal: Vwins. would have to be Vwins at 9th place. If I recall correctly, his last national tournament was Genesis 1 at 13th place (I am excluding Impulse; no impressive wins). His performance here proved that his inactiveness had no grounds in terms of predicting his placement. I really did not expect him to break into the top ten. He beat Zhu, Westballz, Bladewise, and Wobbles.
Eric Lee, Violence, Canada: Silent Wolf. I've been living in the Northwest for the past couple years, and I've seen Otto's play.... mature, I think is the right word, over the past few years. People dismiss him as a flashy player who multishines and makes cool tech skill videos, but never really gets anywhere in tournament. He explained it to me over the past year when he finally lost his top spot in Washington to Bladewise(who he unfortunately had to eliminate in loser's bracket), that his tech skill was good because he focused on it and thought about it, but it wasn't enough at top level play. Focus on moves, get hit because you weren't focusing on your moves. Focus on hitting your opponent, flub your tech skill because you weren't thinking about it. Otto is one of the most knowledgeable and smart players that I know of, but because he plays like this, people often get the impression that he playstyle is "dumb," or "flashy." Obviously tech skill had to be internalized, like for most of us, but the way Otto plays is very technically demanding. As other players in the Northwest like Sion and Bladewise grew strong enough to push him to his limits, his tech skill became more and more internalized. His playstyle has become more dynamic, and his decisions have been much smarter. Instead of focusing on buttons, he's been focusing on his opponent's habits and mentality. He soon regained his title as top of the Northwest, though Bladewise is not giving up his push to the top without a fight.
3. Which player had the most disappointing results?
David Macdonald, KirbyKaze, Canada: Westballz*. I hate this question simply because there are so many people that I can put here. The whole bracket pools structure affords such a smaller room for error and the 128 man bracket introduces a lot more room for variation in results. I could say I was disappointed in Westballz for placing 33rd but his losses were to Shroomed and Vwins. Shroomed and Vwins did spectacularly and are known, ranked players with numerous wins and strong reputation. Lose to 5th and 9th to get 33rd? At this point, since the bracket is so wild, I almost think the placement of 33rd is meaningless.
Robin Harn, Juggleguy, Michigan: Kels. Calling out my fellow Midwest brethren here. As the number one Midwest player in attendance at Apex, you gotta do better than go 1-2 in bracket, losing to SilentSwag and Nintendude while beating only Inui. Other regions must be calling the Midwest silly names after seeing that performance... and I can't blame them. Step it up Kelly.
Jason Yoon, Bizzarro Flame, Norcal: Javi had the most disappointing result, especially in front of tens of thousands of spectators. He was one of the players who was expected to break at least the top ten of the results, especially with an impressive fourth place at Apex 2012. Although I am personally not a fan of Javi, I felt that Javi could have been the next Armada, as in exceeding everyone’s expectation (as in Genesis 1). On top of that, his performance was mediocre at best in the U.S. vs. the World Crew Battles, although this is beside the main point.
Eric Lee, Violence, Canada: SFAT. Zac is the homie, and he's one of the pride and joy of Norcal. Any tournament where he doesn't do well is a bit of a disappointment, but I noticed a lack of him on the stream, and it just made me a bit sad. We all know Zac is capable of great things, and all we can do is encourage him to step it up at the next event. I'm sure he feels the same way.
4. Going into Apex 2014, who do you think will have the biggest jump in placement?
David Macdonald, KirbyKaze, Canada: DJ Nintendo. I don’t like this question. Mainly because this tournament was a huge change from how tournaments are normally run and it promotes a huge jump in variance. Though the stage list remained fairly conservative, eliminating the round robin format for the elimination rounds (for example) reduces the amount of warm-up time for technical players playing early in the day. Changes like this can make or break your chances of making bracket or getting a good seeding – a lot of space animals I had hopes for at this event flubbed bracket entry to tech errors.
However, that doesn’t answer the question. Assuming attendance is similar next year as it was at this one, I think it’ll be DJ Nintendo. Say what you will about his style but the man is more skilled than 65th. Again, this is where a 128 man bracket and a volatile pools system affords a lot of serious underperformances. I could use a lot of people here; I didn’t think about this too carefully.
Robin Harn, Juggleguy, Michigan: GUCCI. I'm a big believer that top international talent performs much better at their second tourney in the states (exception: Amsah), whether it's due to nerves, adjustment to the crowd noise, or PAL vs NTSC differences. Though he already performed admirably this year -- picking up a win over Westballz in bracket pools and placing 25th overall -- GUCCI will be back even stronger next time.
Jason Yoon, Bizzarro Flame, Norcal: This is such a tough question. I feel like I need more national tournament experience to answer this question accurately, but KirbyKaze should have the biggest jump in placement for the next Apex. According to word of mouth, he is very dedicated and high in spirits. And we all know what it takes to be the top: a witty player who has the dedication and drive to win it all.
Eric Lee, Violence, Canada: Westballz, That crazy son of a ***** is one of the most inconsistent players we have in California. He's a confident, sharp-tongued, hungry young prodigy, and he has one of the greatest potentials in our state as well. He unfortunately ran into VWins and Dajuan early, and Dajuan managed to beat him though they go back and forth in California. In the end, his performance was lower than expected, and I'm sure he will agree wholeheartedly. I'm sure if he attends next year, he'll bring that Socal fire he's famous for.
5. Who was the best player that did not make it into bracket?
David Macdonald, KirbyKaze, Canada: Unknown522
Robin Harn, Juggleguy, Michigan: Frootloop. Going from 7th place at The Big House 2 to not making it into bracket at Apex 2013 is a pretty significant fall. Anyone who had hoped for more Frootloop magic after his wins over Lovage and Westballz last October was sadly mistaken! Rumor has it he went all Marth in bracket pools -- that ain't PP, folks.
Jason Yoon, Bizzarro Flame, Norcal: Toph. I would have to say Toph was the best player out of everyone who drowned in pools. I have mad personal bias in this answer, but when I played with him recently, he had everything a top player had: great technical skills, good understanding of the game, good execution, and so on. However, I did realize that he seems inconsistent as in his environment affects him. Although I do not know his state of mind or his emotional state during Apex, I am quite disappointed and sad he did not make it into bracket.
Eric Lee, Violence, Canada: Toph. That guy can get 3rd in locals in the Northwest, places high in Norcal to boot. He's done decently at regionals like the Big House 2 and Kings of Cali, so to see him not able to make bracket is quite a shock. I'm sure he didn't expect it either, but such is the way bracket pools works. 2 losses, you're out.
