Melee community: would you have REALLY cared if L-canceling was automatic?

[Narukari]

I think it should be auto-L-cancel. I've known how to L-cancel for a long time, and I don't think that technical barriers like these are needed. If melee just had shorter aerial lag and no L-canceling. I feel like the position I would have against other people in my region would stay about the same, and we would get more people that would be fun to match against because they don't have to get through the L-cancel barrier.

Also.

The L-cancel code in Brawl+ would need a lot of work if you want to use the button. I find it a lot harder to l-cancel on Brawl+ than melee. The characters don't hit the ground as fast, and the window to hit the button just seems smaller.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

I have a question. I vaguely remember something about tech timing. When you hit a surface (ground/wall/ceiling) you have a certain window in which to hit L or R and you will tech. Hitting L/R close enough before this window also prevents you from being able to tech (even if you hit L/R again during the window). Correct me if this is wrong.

So, this may very well be nitpicking, but I have a questions with this pertaining to l-cancelling. Is it conceivable that if you start an aerial, but soon notice the oponent will be able to intercept and hit you with his own attack, you could forfeit your opportunity to tech the hit (if it's available) in that instance?

I don't believe it's a strong enough argument for including lc-cancelling on its own (it's probably more related to the issues with having multiple uses for the same button), I just thought it was interesting enough to inquire about.

You're right about that. but you can prevent the "l-canceling will precent you from teching" problem through not pressing L/R all the way down (or use Z to l-cancel). you need to press L/R it until it clicks to tech, but for an l-cancel you only need to press the manual part. you hardly need to push it down at all to l-cancel

 

[Starscream]

K, I got a question, and I'm not advocating either side.

Let's say a "what if" Melee had shipped originally with all aerials having the landing lag of "real" Melee's L-canceled aerials. There is no L-canceling, the technique doesn't exist and all aerials have low landing lag by default. The game is inherently fast and every other Melee advanced tech still exists. You played this for a year and got used to it. This is the how the game is and always was.

Now let's say a year down the line they released an update or patch (I know Gamecube games don't have updates or patches just go with it) that doubled the landing lag of all aerials and added L-canceling in, a technique which is mandatory to get the halved landing lag of the old "what if" Melee. Essentially the same as how real Melee is. The update was not mandatory.

Which do you think you would play?

 

[Jboy313]

even tho shffling would prolly be a bit easier and combos like drill shine would be too..i would rather it not be automatic..having to l cancel when shffling would take more skill cuz u need to press l at the right time so you would seem better..xD

 

[metaXzero]

K, I got a question, and I'm not advocating either side.

Let's say a "what if" Melee had shipped originally with all aerials having the landing lag of "real" Melee's L-canceled aerials. There is no L-canceling, the technique doesn't exist and all aerials have low landing lag by default. The game is inherently fast and every other Melee advanced tech still exists. You played this for a year and got used to it. This is the how the game is and always was.

Now let's say a year down the line they released an update or patch (I know Gamecube games don't have updates or patches just go with it) that doubled the landing lag of all aerials and added L-canceling in, a technique which is mandatory to get the halved landing lag of the old "what if" Melee. Essentially the same as how real Melee is. The update was not mandatory.

Which do you think you would play?

Honestly, if that is all that was added, I'd see the update as a downgrade and a waste...

 

[jugfingers]

K, I got a question, and I'm not advocating either side.

Let's say a "what if" Melee had shipped originally with all aerials having the landing lag of "real" Melee's L-canceled aerials. There is no L-canceling, the technique doesn't exist and all aerials have low landing lag by default. The game is inherently fast and every other Melee advanced tech still exists. You played this for a year and got used to it. This is the how the game is and always was.

Now let's say a year down the line they released an update or patch (I know Gamecube games don't have updates or patches just go with it) that doubled the landing lag of all aerials and added L-canceling in, a technique which is mandatory to get the halved landing lag of the old "what if" Melee. Essentially the same as how real Melee is. The update was not mandatory.

Which do you think you would play?

if melee had been shipped without l-cancelling id probably still be playing sbb64.

 

[Wind Owl]

That's completely besides the point and you know it.

 

[metaXzero]

if melee had been shipped without l-cancelling id probably still be playing sbb64.

And you'd ignore the "update" that had manual L-canceling instead of auto-reduced lag (first version)?

 

[Dav657]

well once you play the game enough l-canceling is pretty much automatic.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

@ starscream: I'd play whichever would be the tournament standard.

@ jugfingers: I still play ssb64

 

[Gimpyfish62]

sooooo i'm sure after 11 pages this has been pointed out

but l canaceling can't be "automatic"

"automatic" l canceling means l canceling doesn't exist

yep

i'm positive somebody said this - probably lots of people - but it bothers me.

 

[BlackPanther]

sooooo i'm sure after 11 pages this has been pointed out

but l canaceling can't be "automatic"

"automatic" l canceling means l canceling doesn't exist

yep

i'm positive somebody said this - probably lots of people - but it bothers me.

Now why didn't you close it after that lol? Anyways if technically l cancelling was "automatic" I would still be playing melee, that would just mean one less button worry about, that doesn't take away from the fact that Melee is an AMAZING game!

 

[BrawlLover]

That's completely besides the point and you know it.

yeah i know, it's just not on the point at all!

 

[Eggm]

If that patch came out and we were forced to play it with Non automatic l-canceling for like 3-4 months then they came out again and changed it back to the way it was originally I think the most competitive players would play it with the non automatic l-canceling. But we could make up stuff all day this thread is stupid.

 

[jugfingers]

@ jugfingers: I still play ssb64

the only thing that keeps me from playing ssb64 is the lack of working n64 controllers,

I would buy a wii if it was possible to play sbb64 on it with gamecube controllers.


but yea sbb64 is an amazing game, as are all the games in the smash series that have l-canceling.

 

[Wind Owl]

Uh, you CAN do that.

 

[jugfingers]

uh, You Can Do That.

Foreal????

 

[Starscream]

if melee had been shipped without l-cancelling id probably still be playing sbb64.

So you're telling me that if Sakurai decided to have never put L-canceling in Melee but instead made aerials inherently have very low landing lag from the very beginning that you would have completely wrote off Melee despite everything else it had going for it?

If that patch came out and we were forced to play it with Non automatic l-canceling for like 3-4 months then they came out again and changed it back to the way it was originally I think the most competitive players would play it with the non automatic l-canceling. But we could make up stuff all day this thread is stupid.

That's nothing at all like the scenario I said. And yes we can make up stuff all day because no one really cares about the original intent of the discussion anymore. This thread has kind of boiled down into a general L-cancel discussion thread. No need to take it so **** seriously.

Sakurai removed L-caneling in the development of Melee, it was never there, aerials inherently had low landing lag, everything else about Melee was the same. A year later Sakurai makes all aerials have double the landing lag but now you have to press a button at the right time to get the naturally low landing lag you had before. You would see this as an improvement? You'd be like "holy **** I have to press an extra button now (at the right time) to play exactly the same way as I did a year ago or my character will be slow on landing aerials!"

I have absolutely nothing against L-caneling and I'm not taking either side even if it may seem like it. But thinking about it in reverse, if you had the option to add it instead of remove it then it does seem kinda silly.

 

[Wind Owl]

Foreal????

Foreal. I don't know the specifics, but there are N64 emulators for the Homebrew Channel that allow you to use GCN controllers (and even customize controls, I believe).

EDIT: Rather than buying a Wii, however, you should probably check out Project64k (or Mupen64k) and look on eBay for GCN controller to USB adapters. That way you can play SSB64 online with a GCN controller for much less money.

 

[Narukari]

Yea, you need to softmod your wii though, there is a hacked vc title that they inserted smash64 into. I have it on my wii right now.

Brawl/Melee/64 on one console :D

oh, and like I stated before, the l-canceling code makes it really hard to l-cancel. Much much harder than it was in melee. It would work better with just reduced aerial lag. At least, until they fix up the l-canceling code.

 

[BrawlLover]

If that patch came out and we were forced to play it with Non automatic l-canceling for like 3-4 months then they came out again and changed it back to the way it was originally I think the most competitive players would play it with the non automatic l-canceling. But we could make up stuff all day this thread is stupid.

yes, we can 'hope', but in all honesty, they aren't going to do anything to change brawl, so just play melee miright!

 

[RaynEX]

sooooo i'm sure after 11 pages this has been pointed out

but l canaceling can't be "automatic"

"automatic" l canceling means l canceling doesn't exist

yep

i'm positive somebody said this - probably lots of people - but it bothers me.

^ This post should have ended the thread.

 

[BrawlLover]

yes i concur, contacting mod now

 

[jugfingers]

Foreal. I don't know the specifics, but there are N64 emulators for the Homebrew Channel that allow you to use GCN controllers (and even customize controls, I believe).

EDIT: Rather than buying a Wii, however, you should probably check out Project64k (or Mupen64k) and look on eBay for GCN controller to USB adapters. That way you can play SSB64 online with a GCN controller for much less money.

you just made my day.

 

[kupo15]

Then again, I would prefer auto-l-cancels to say, no hitstun, floaty gameplay, very many inescapable, non-DIable cgs, auto-sweetspotting, etc. This is a lesser of many evils.

lol

Now Im not trying to argue anything because I like l canceling and even though its always the best option like Magus said, I like it for flow, because its fun, and Eggm had a good point that pressure in the match would cause you to miss more often thus resulting in you not playing to your best..

But I have a question to you guys. If 50 aerials out of 130 aerials in melee (roughly the same ratio as brawl) were programmed to be auto l canceled, would you care if l canceling was auto or manual?

That is the dilemma we had which is why at least myself prefers auto l canceling over manual l canceling. If we can go back and have a code that removes the 75 aerials in brawl that are programmed to have auto l canceling, I think I would prefer manual just because its fun and for the reason I stated above.

However, Magus cancel seems awesome!

 

[taste_the_beast]

Yes, it is one of the things that makes Melee harder to play. It requires skill and timing. Sure, eventually it becomes automatic, but mastering it gave me a sense of accomplishment.

yea thats what makes melee fun; trying to conquer the techniques and use them against your opponets

 

[BrawlLover]

windowlalldaymakingmydaysalldayeveryday

 

[Gimpyfish62]

oops

*bowser fsmash*