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Mathos is freakin insane with lasers!!!!!

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mathos

Smash Champion
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Thank You Hugs for stopping these idiots. These people clearly don't understand anything they're talking about. Viperboy is a good falco, however completely different from mine. Most falco's rely on complete technical skill to become competitive whereas I use my lasers to provide openings for my less than perfect Falco. That statement may sound like I can't be technical but perhaps I should play a match with all of you and you can decide if I'm technical or not. LASERS OWN!
 

7ak

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bornfidelity.com said:
Drephen said:
your a ******
Hahahaha.............funniest exchange I've ever seen on this forum. :laugh:

But on topic, yes Mathos is a SHL beast. That video is part of the reason I wanted to learn Falco because his lasers are nasty. His style of endless SHL spamming to get an opening is pretty interesting but obviously it didn't work nearly as well on Fox. I like Dope's flawless pillaring and waveshines better but Mathos inspired me to master SHL.
 

RusselC

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I was more impressed with Ken taking out eddie and drew. None the less, Mathos did a great job of keeping his guy covered with lasers.
 

Zanguzen

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haha mathos 2 good but i still believe i am the master of lasers lol ive had my videos cropped because 3 min of them wud b me spamming and lol against hugs i spammed 4 lik 5 min straight on fd poor hugs he seems lik hes always the victim of major spammage lol cant wait 2 c u guys at chicago espcially dope this blazering intrigues me hmm
 

jamz

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mathos said:
That statement may sound like I can't be technical but perhaps I should play a match with all of you and you can decide if I'm technical or not. LASERS OWN!
id like to play u, maybe i should have at SAVII :( . i need to learn to slow down and spam a bit, being technically consistent 100% is quite hard for me (and im sure im not the only one). on the side, part of me thinks this site should ban videos
 

bornfidelity.com

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Dutchland. ^^
drephen if you cant RSHL you suck at lasering lol. just stick to sheik or w.ever.

...lol that sounds so offensive im not even sure about posting it.

hell.

^^
 

Davidyor

Smash Apprentice
Joined
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mathos said:
Thank You Hugs for stopping these idiots. These people clearly don't understand anything they're talking about. Viperboy is a good falco, however completely different from mine. Most falco's rely on complete technical skill to become competitive whereas I use my lasers to provide openings for my less than perfect Falco. That statement may sound like I can't be technical but perhaps I should play a match with all of you and you can decide if I'm technical or not. LASERS OWN!
hey dude,
could you please up some games of you (DC doesnt work for me), i still gotta learn a lot. i can SHL very well, but my "mindgame" ;) aint that perfect.
for example i got problems with shine, since i havent learned wavedashing so far and i never come close enough to my opponents to shine... the only chance is to wait and dodge on the ground when they try to attack me, but id rather show some skills, you know ;)

another problem i got is... what should i do if try to attack my opponent, but he just shields and grabs me after... what do you guys do for not being grabbed in that case... its pretty annoying, especially vs my friend, cause he immediatly starts his grab combos...
 

Sytar

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Messages
538
You have to SHFFL a dair into shine. If he tries to grab you out of the SHFFL'd dair, he'll eat a shine to the face if you've done it correctly.
 

Davidyor

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Sytar said:
You have to SHFFL a dair into shine. If he tries to grab you out of the SHFFL'd dair, he'll eat a shine to the face if you've done it correctly.
but it doesnt have to be a shorthop, right? its just about perfect l-cancel + shine?
 

viperboy_74

Smash Master
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Dec 9, 2004
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i have officially started spamming lasers... and i have officially doubled mathos's score!!!! yeah!!!!!

Me Vs. Camper Bob... FC6 Pool match number 2. i shot 637 lasers in one match, i tourney match at that. i hold the record.

my falco now spams and i am proud...

oh and poejyle, lets play a set... i fixed my gannon problem, even taking out capt. awesome! :)
 

mathos

Smash Champion
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I love you viperboy. I do believe the most admirable thing one can do is mimic someone. I almost feel like a mentor. :-)

But to all of you that think I suck, I do believe that I made top 32 at FC6. Only losing to my crewmate Drephen, and Azen. But I took out Neo, who if you don't know, you should check out the smash power rankings.

I am the Laser Artist.
 

mathos

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Just keep shooting. No one can powershield all the time. Usually people get tired of constantly trying to powershield lasers as long as you continue to shoot them.
 

forward

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what if you are getting hit by more power shielded laser then the damage you are doing with them?

Also what do you do when you get pushed towards the ledge? Or should you just try to avoid the edge altogether?

What do you do on small stages like Yoshi Story? Or how do you deal with lowered platforms on Fountain of Dreams?
 

Light

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forward said:
what if you are getting hit by more power shielded laser then the damage you are doing with them?

Also what do you do when you get pushed towards the ledge? Or should you just try to avoid the edge altogether?

What do you do on small stages like Yoshi Story? Or how do you deal with lowered platforms on Fountain of Dreams?
I'm not Mathos, buuuut I'm going to try to answer these questions.

1. The damage being done to you is irrelevant; you are still winning and should keep spamming. This is because he is expending vastly larger amounts of focus during the exchange than you. The focus required to perform a SHL, virtually zero; the focus needed to power shield, nearly all of your immediate attention.

2. You are not actually fighting when SHL spamming, but constructing a wall that will hopefully put off the actual engagement long enough to agitate and do damage to the opponent. If the opponent is able to push you back all the way to the edge, then your wall is failing and you should then engage. If your opponent is a superior fighter, however, then you should try to exit the conflict as soon as possible and gain some distance to continue SHLing - resetting the confrontation.

3. Uhh... that's what my second character is for :)

Hope that helps.
 

McRustyJr

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wtf are u doing Light, trying to give advice to Forward!? SEAN B!? WTF!? and wtf r u doing Forward!? asking Mathos for advice? and i thought u were cool.
 

forward

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wtf who r u i asked mathos not u

I'm asking these questions specifically to mathos to find out how he deals with these situations, I have my own tactics for these things. Seriously, you think I don't know what to do with lowered platforms on FoD?

But at the same time I'm always looking for new things to add to my game, and you never know where you can find it.
 

Watty

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yep forward is trying to find other styles to blend 2 his own its how u get better every1 does it
 

mathos

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Here we go

forward said:
what if you are getting hit by more power shielded laser then the damage you are doing with them?

Also what do you do when you get pushed towards the ledge? Or should you just try to avoid the edge altogether?

What do you do on small stages like Yoshi Story? Or how do you deal with lowered platforms on Fountain of Dreams?
As a disclaimer these are just my beliefs which may be argued :)

The idea of lasers are to stop your opponent from advancing or to enable you to advance unharmed. Lasers are supposed to be a nuisance for your opponent making it hard for them to advance. Most people believe that the lower the lasers are the better. They are correct in the fact that the lower the laser the easier it is to hit the person. Every once and a while I get someone who thinks that they can powershield successfully. But what I try to do is time and space my lasers so that I have the highest laser while still SSFFling them. If done correctly Falco should land as laser is going above his head. That laser will still be effective by allowing advancement and halting the opponent. That is the best kind of laser.

Falco is not a character that should be afraid of the ledge. Most of the modern game is about edgeguarding and getting quick kills. With Falco's arsenal of lasers, shine, spike, bair, and fsmash Falco is one of the best edgeguarders in the game. On top of that, Falco's near unlimited ways to get back to the stage should not make Falco have fear of the edge.

I believe Falco performs extraordinarily better on platform stages then those without platforms. Each stages platforms perform different functions: higher platforms allowing combos on lighter floaty characters, whereas lower platforms help combo fastfallers and allow cover. Unlike other stages, the lower platform stages unlike Yoshi's Story and FOD halt mobility of many characters. The idea of lasers make an opponent come from above Falco, however on the lower platform stages you can't come from above. Therefore opponents have to one of 2 things: Come from straight on which is what most opponents don't want to do because it causes potential for pillaring and spike shines combos, or have to land on a platform which causes great vulnerability because the opponent is right above you. Most people believe that flat long stages is where Falco needs to be to allow for efficient lasering. But I don't think this is true at all, because flat long stages allow for more mobility for your opponent. The idea of laser to halt mobility therefore I don't think these stages are as good for Falco. Futhermore, many lower tier characters have too many advantages over Falco there (i.e. Chain throws and combos on only flat stages). Flat stages are a thing of the past, platforms are where its at.

There! Now my post is complete. I must say that this is one of the best post I've ever made. So infactual. Hope you all actually read it all, it looks pretty overwelming.
 

jamz

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granted im no mathos or zanguzen, but still FoD is a pain in the *** for me. when the platforms are at there almost lowest, u cant SHFF anything, especially lasers. whats ur tactic then? i assume u try to move center stage and spam. and on the side sometimes as a mindgame to powershielders, i always like misfiring a laser (im not sure what its called or if thats the right term), but its when u see the gun, hear it being shot but u laser cancel before the laser comes out. :grin:. i agree with u on the platforms for comboing mathos. for example nothin feels better then "shine spike" comboing a floaty from the floor to the top platform to get ur shine lame on YS
 

forward

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I just watched you vs Hugs from the FC3 crew battle and I did notice the high lasers, and I'll have to admit it worked pretty well.

Regarding the edge: So what you're saying is when you are at the ledge you shouldn't try to laser spam so much so you can go for the cheap kills? If this is the case it means you now have to attack. When it comes to attacking from the ledge you are limited, all you can do is attack, because you have no room left to be defensive. You're defensive options are narrowed down to shielding, jumping, and hanging onto the ledge itself. Being at the ledge the opponent should know what you are capable of regarding cheap kills, so as they attack they should be keeping themselves safe from whatever ways you can counter.

My point being: With less options, and even with Falco's good recovery mind games it still only takes one hit and a ledge guard to kill him, is it worth lasering back to the edge of the stage?

I would like to say tho that I agree that small stages are better for Falco, it allows for a better offensive game.
However you are supposedly the king of shl spam, do you sacrifice your title on smaller stages to play aggresively?
 

Drephen

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wow McRustyJr. is a ******

too bad he sucks and his opinion doesnt matter

mathos beat NEO!!!! COK is getting too good
 

mathos

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My game has considerably changed from last year. So my lasers have improved immensely.

Well my game on the ledge is actually different than listed. I was just explaining that the edge isn't a concern. My style relies on the opponent to be hit by a laser than reacting to it to begin a combo (straight pillaring is rediculous). So the edge is the best place to wait and a person to come to you. A combo near the edge makes it so that you pretty much know where the person is going to be DIing. Or if you know the opponent is going to be able to shield or counterattack you, advance with a spike and retreat to the other side of the side or a place where you feel more comfortable. Most people won't be able to do anything out of your l-cancelled spike. (retreat with reverse lasers)

My believe my style of Falco is a hit and run tactic. Depending on how well my opponent handles me inside game determines how much I will abuse my lasering. My lasers cause openings, not my pillars.
 

Eaode

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nice matches. Lasers ftw.

PS. nice job against Ken, Drephen. But he has his own following of girls to cheer for him. You can't beat that! xP
 

BrTarolg

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Davidyor said:
but it doesnt have to be a shorthop, right? its just about perfect l-cancel + shine?
yes.

a much easier way ofc, is just to land behind the person, and he cant grab you unless hes link.

or you can also use your jab to cancel out their grab

if you are behind someone, and they are shielded, you usually have the advantage - but it ends up to mindgames on who gets to start the combo on the other.
 

mathos

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But why must I tell of my thoughts without any in return. Forward, are you skeptical of lasering techniques or are you truly looking for advice. Regardless why are you not speaking of your own thoughts on Falco (with exception that platforms are better).
 

forward

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Mathos the only reason you are sharing your thoughts on Falco is because I'm asking, no one is asking me anything so I'm saying nothing.

I am some what skeptical of lasering. Of course it's a good technique, but it's not impossible to get around. Doing it so much you become predictable, and getting hit as Falco sucks. So, I'm wondering what ways can you abuse this move while staying safe, even if it's predictable.

At the ledge: Here's the thing about advancing with a spike, you are at the ledge, and it becomes exremely predictable. Of course they know you want to go thru them with a spike, because you have no where left to run to. Being in the middle of the stage you can rshl and be safe from like 98% of the things they could do, you don't have this option at the ledge.
 

mathos

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But being near the ledge and in the middle of the stage will result in the same thing, a spike one way or another. Of course in the middle of the satge you have the ability to rshl but you can't expect to rshl and shl across the entire stage with the opponent catching you. Falco cannot avoid the predictable from the laser.
 

falcosmassacre01

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mathos sucked wat are u talking about now ken was monstrously nice with fox he di'd extremely good he knos his stuff with fox
 

forward

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In the middle of the stage you also have room to dash dance, wave dash, and move to platforms, making your spike more unpredictable
 

mathos

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Falcosmassacre: what are you talking about? That is the most incomplete sentence ever.

Forward: But what stops you from doing that on the ledge. Altough you can't go directly backwards you still have all those options.
 
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