Matchup Thread Export: Olimar

[Today]

Olimar

Discuss!

 

[Today]

Okay. I know this matchup pretty well because of my friend.

Stages to take Olimar to: Rainbow Cruise, Frigate, Brinstar

If Green Greens is legal don't take him here. Olimar can wrack up damage and combo to kill really well here. Most Olimars don't practice this stage. But I'll avoid it.

Stages to ban: Luigi's Mansion, Distant Planet (if legal), Japes.

Stages he may take you to: Halberd, Delfino, Castle Siege.

In my opinion it's 55:45 Olimar's favor.

Notes:
-Olimar Uair can beat GnW dair. So dairing isn't usually a good idea unless you're close to the ground.
-UpB if you land next to him. He will go for a grab.
-Dilt is good.
-Nair if Pikmin is tossed on you.
-Nair is probably best in this match up in general.
-If Olimar grabs you he's going to down throw you and short up fair. It's going to hit. Just try and get out afterwards otherwise he'll combo you some more.
-Blue Pikmin will kill at high percentages. Try not to get grabbed by these if you are. Same with purple. If he grabs you with a blue at high percents prepare for a back throw or a forward throw. Try and DI up. Purple will be an upthrow. DI to the sides.
-Purple Pikmin have the shortest grab range while blue has the longest grab range.
-Purple Pikmin Toss will hit you instead of latching on.
-White Pikmin does the most damage when latched; 6%.
-Olimar is gimpable.
-Olimar's Whistle has 15 frames of super armor.
-Yellow Pikmin has disjointed hitboxes.


I'll try and think of more when I can.

Edit: Here are a couple of videos against Hilt. These are all friendlies only not tourney matches.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqjRWHDumFk -Win

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6_ywwL1AA4 - Lose

 

[SFA Smiley]

Okay. I know this matchup pretty well because of my bf.

I hope that bf means Battlefield, cutie *winks*

Orimah is my worst matchup so I hope to learn some things. Wish I wasn't so worthless though.

His dair is pretty fast, can it knock us outta Up-B?

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Nope Olimar can't do anything to gw's upb with dair. It's fast, but it doesn't have much priority.

More from me in a bit X:

 

[Rajam]

Mmmm I don't have enough mu experience on this, so I'm not throwing a ratio. I think nair, dtilt and bair are the main moves to use. Watch out mostly for purple pikmin ("ignore" the others) and pivot grab, specially on very low and very high %s. Spotdodge is kind of effective in the Olimar mu... Pretty much what Today said cover all the pros and cons... Well I'll throw a ratio anyways (55:45 G&W favor), but just don't give it much credit

 

[A2ZOMG]

K, so the matchup is basically avoiding his camping and pivot grab, the former, use N-air and D-tilt walls. The latter...stage control, and make sure you're actually hitting him when you approach. By the way, hitting his shield can be fine, since it is in fact possible to spotdodge his shieldgrab.

Then you want to find opportunities to grab, juggle, edgeguard, etc, which will all lead you to victory and stuff.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Alright, I'll make some comments on some of the points made X:

Okay. I know this matchup pretty well because of my bf.

Stages to take Olimar to: Rainbow Cruise, Frigate, Brinstar

Yeah, RC will probably be the ban by most Olimars against GW. Brinstar is probably your best bet. Frigate has a few perks for Olimar that GW can't shut down and GW can't take as much advantage of the bad qualities of the stage well enough. Sure you'll get a kill when Olimar is forced to use his UpB to recover on the right side if you wait for him to land, but that's about it. You can't pressure him well enough to the right side and can't force/keep him there well enough for it to really be detrimental.

Stages to ban: Luigi's Mansion, Distant Planet (if legal), Japes.

Scratch Japes because almost no Olimar knows how to play on it lol. DP is never legal so don't worry about that, and yeah, ban mansion if it's legal in your area. If your region uses a conservative rule set, though, I'm not sure. Most stages that are good for Olimar are good for GW (such as Halberd). If pictochat is legal, it's a great counterpick for Olimar, especially against GW.

Stages he may take you to: Halberd, Delfino, Castle Siege.

Haha, the love of Delfino is pretty much just me. I wouldn't take a GW there, but it's good enough of a stage where I wouldn't mind it. Halberd would be good as a counterpick, but risky with GW's kills being as vertically based as ours. Castle Seige is amazing for Olimar though.

Olimar is kinda... good on most stages lol. There aren't many that are bad for him, and the ones that are, aren't too bad, universally. It's going to be a lot of player preference, since there aren't any huge advantages we get in any stage in the GW matchup.

In my opinion it's 55:45 Olimar's favor.

You're probably right. I think it's pretty even of a matchup.

-UpB if you land next to him. He will go for a grab.

It's completely safe. The worst Olimar can do is double jump after you UpB and go for an uair. If he misses, he's up in the air with gw which can be a problem. All in all, a smart Olimar isn't going to try to punish a turtle eating at his shield. He'll just focus on getting stage control and attacking when you land again. You can also spot dodge after turtling a shield and we can't punish it with grab, but that wouldn't be smart anyway and we can just wait for the spot dodge and punish.

-Dilt is good.

Probably the best move in the matchup. Use it to cover your holes. Olimar's attacks are not fast, especially grab, and sometimes it's difficult to find a way around dtilt (unless we just pull away lol)

-Nair is probably best in this match up in general.

It gives you more control in getting in, which will be your main objective. Don't let the Olimar get momentum or you won't be able to keep yourself on the ground. Stay on him all the time and it'll be difficult for the Olimar to find a way to regain stage control. Nair is your best way of getting in.

-If Olimar grabs you he's going to down throw you and short up fair. It's going to hit. Just try and get out afterwards otherwise he'll combo you some more.

Just jump. If you can get out of any of Olimar's combos, you can get out of them by jumping After a few percents, nothing out of a dthrow is guaranteed (after 15-20%, dependent on color).

-Blue Pikmin will kill at high percentages. Try not to get grabbed by these if you are. Same with purple. If he grabs you with a blue at high percents prepare for a back throw or a forward throw. Try and DI up. Purple will be an upthrow. DI to the sides.

Actually, blues kill off the top very easily as well with uthrow, people just don't tend to think about it, haha. Especially against GW, where it's more difficult for Olimar to kill him off the sides. Uthrow is probably our best kill throw, regardless of whether it's blue or purple.

-Purple Pikmin have the shortest grab range while blue has the longest grab range.

Blues don't, actually. I haven't tested it, but we're pretty sure blue/red/yellow all have the same range. If there is a difference, blue would be the second longest next to white, but whites don't really matter, haha.

-Olimar is gimpable.

GW doesn't have the right tools to take advantage of this though :/

K, so the matchup is basically avoiding his camping and pivot grab, the former, use N-air and D-tilt walls. The latter...stage control, and make sure you're actually hitting him when you approach. By the way, hitting his shield can be fine, since it is in fact possible to spotdodge his shieldgrab.

Then you want to find opportunities to grab, juggle, edgeguard, etc, which will all lead you to victory and stuff.

Hitting our shield with a nair and spotdodging when we try to shield grab is safe. Hitting it with a turtle and doing so, not so much. Olimar isn't always going to go for a grab after his shield is hit. Usmash (waiting for your spotdodge), pivot grab (where the pikmin will get to you when your spotdodge is over), fair (incredible), etc all work and can all punish a spotdodge after your landing. You can UpB after hitting our shield with anything and avoid any and all conflict, sans the Olimar chases you into the air with an up air (which isn't as dumb as it sounds), but you're essentially just telling the Olimar he can have stage control while you jump into the sky.

 

[Today]

GW doesn't have the right tools to take advantage of this though :/

I suppose that's true. And Olimar has whistle as well.

Hitting our shield with a nair and spotdodging when we try to shield grab is safe. Hitting it with a turtle and doing so, not so much. Olimar isn't always going to go for a grab after his shield is hit. Usmash (waiting for your spotdodge), pivot grab (where the pikmin will get to you when your spotdodge is over), fair (incredible), etc all work and can all punish a spotdodge after your landing. You can UpB after hitting our shield with anything and avoid any and all conflict, sans the Olimar chases you into the air with an up air (which isn't as dumb as it sounds), but you're essentially just telling the Olimar he can have stage control while you jump into the sky.

Yeah. Honestly I guess I don't know what to do after an upb.

Sometimes I bair and if they try and approach me they get hit by it. Dair sometimes work if they aren't preparing to use an uair. Or fast fall nair.

 

[Noraa]

No point in dair'ing in this mu, their uair will be waiting for you.
And hilt, logic loves delfino also lol

I also play this mu pretty agressive since there is no point in jumping around until pikmin get on you. I bair his shield as much as possible since if you space correctly he cant grab it. So once that turtle is in his shield i make sure im on his *** until i get knocked away.

 

[PentaSalia]

don't forget that if you're ever playing an Oli on halberd or delfino and u send em offstage(somehow) just hang on to that ledge since you can't get stage spiked there. lol

other then that,i don't feel i know this MU at all xD.
the only olis i've fought were on wifi(Lcancel,dabuz(got *****),hilt,random oli mains) lol



space those nairs,up B alot,and never dair :l

 

[Sky Pirate]

Ask sir Hylian about this matchup. He insists that Olimar is one of G&W's worst matchups, though I can't remember his reasoning.

 

[Novabound]

One thing I've heard Fearless say (Basically FL's best Olimar) is he is never going to spot dodge. He'd rather shield and take a grab than take a hit from a smash, since almost no throw in the game is a kill throw. That's just him though, Idk if other Olimars have this mindset. But if this is a consistent MOT then you can bait shields with Nair for grabs...which set you up for GaW's superior juggle game.

One of my favorite tricks that I keep up my sleeve is when I'm a stock ahead, and he's mid stock (60-80), I let him throw as many pikmin as he will at me. I let them all latch onto me and walk towards him. Given he may save ONE pikmin, but with such a slow, obvious, (AND ******) approach you can predict he'll either smash or grab. Managing to shield/spot dodge accordingly, just charge an up smash in his face until he does something...anything. With the 982734798679834689 pikmin on you, it makes the Upsmash's hit box stay out for more than an entire second (!) colliding with all those pikmin. I know it stales your upsmash to bloody bits, but with olimar's weight, percentage, and your charge, it's usually more than enough to kill him.

Also, if you don't want pikmin on you, Up B + Nair kills them all/gets rid of them.

Also during the match, continuously jab those pikmin that just happen to walk by. Or up air them if they're above you. If he's not gonna approach, you can at least make sure your important moves are fresh.

I honestly don't think this MU is in their favor. Well, lemme rephrase that. On anything but final D, I don't think the MU is in their favor. The killing power and juggle game we have is just way too good.

 

[Dnyce]

But if this is a consistent MOT then you can bait shields with Nair for grabs...which set you up for GaW's superior juggle game.

Logic Error.
May I ask how you get a grab from using his neutral-air?

Problem:
Mr. Game and Watch's neutral-air has nine frames of cool down and a six frame grab.

Assessment:
For this to work Olimar would have to stand around and do nothing while you walk up to him and grab. Neutral-air is not safe on shield either. More information needed.

Solution: ?

One of my favorite tricks that I keep up my sleeve is when I'm a stock ahead, and he's mid stock (60-80), I let him throw as many pikmin as he will at me. I let them all latch onto me and walk towards him. Given he may save ONE pikmin, but with such a slow, obvious, (AND ******) approach you can predict he'll either smash or grab. Managing to shield/spot dodge accordingly, just charge an up smash in his face until he does something...anything. With the 982734798679834689 pikmin on you, it makes the Upsmash's hit box stay out for more than an entire second (!) colliding with all those pikmin. I know it stales your upsmash to bloody bits, but with olimar's weight, percentage, and your charge, it's usually more than enough to kill him.

Given then damage-per-second of Pikmin-latch, the execution of this maneuver could bring you from zero-knockout percent. Even with a stock lead this does not seem logical. Given Olimar's high damage output and kill power, making a comeback can happen quick.

Inference Error.
You are assuming that all Pikmin latch. Given one purple Pikmin successfully landing, your entire point is moot meanwhile taking unnecessary damage.

Logic Errors.
=*= Olimar out-ranges Mr. Game and Watch: Spot-dodging his attack would presume the Olimar uses either a grab or forward-smash. Granting Olimar does not have grab armor, assume he goes with the safer option to forward-smash. Olimar's forward-smash cannot be spot-dodged when spaced properly.
=*= Olimar playing aggressive: If you are walking up to him and approaching with a smash, why would he stick around? With a lack of priority the nature of playing Olimar is to fortress and out-space his opponent. The Olimar will want to get out as fast as he can when you get in.

I honestly don't think this MU is in their favor. Well, lemme rephrase that. On anything but final D, I don't think the MU is in their favor. The killing power and juggle game we have is just way too good.

Olimar is on par with Mr. Game and Watch's killing power. Additionally Olimar has more guaranteed set-ups and less telegraphed kill moves that are faster and easier to spam. Leaving Mr. Game & Watch with juggling, which I do not argue against; however, recommend you consider other aspects of match-up before making a final decision.

 

[Novabound]

Logic Error.
May I ask how you get a grab from using his neutral-air?

Problem:
Mr. Game and Watch's neutral-air has nine frames of cool down and a six frame grab.

Assessment:
For this to work Olimar would have to stand around and do nothing while you walk up to him and grab. Neutral-air is not safe on shield either. More information needed.

Solution: ?

--------------------------------------------

Neutral air through his shield to the other side of him. Easy.


LOGIC ERROR
Given then damage-per-second of Pikmin-latch, the execution of this maneuver could bring you from zero-knockout percent. Even with a stock lead this does not seem logical. Given Olimar's high damage output and kill power, making a comeback can happen quick.
---------------------------------------
Does it matter? The given scenario would put you at a 2 stock lead, then you're free to roam the cabin. If you do this to him on his last stock, why would it matter? I wouldn't care if my percent was 999% if I watched him die off the ceiling.
------------------------------------------
You are assuming that all Pikmin latch. Given one purple Pikmin successfully landing, your entire point is moot meanwhile taking unnecessary damage.
---------------------------------------------
I believe I addressed that by saying "Managing to spot dodge/power shield accordingly." If he's laying a barrage of pikmin on you, you can see the purp coming from a mile away.

-------------------------------------------------

=*= Olimar out-ranges Mr. Game and Watch: Spot-dodging his attack would presume the Olimar uses either a grab or forward-smash. Granting Olimar does not have grab armor, assume he goes with the safer option to forward-smash. Olimar's forward-smash cannot be spot-dodged when spaced properly.
=*= Olimar playing aggressive: If you are walking up to him and approaching with a smash, why would he stick around? With a lack of priority the nature of playing Olimar is to fortress and out-space his opponent. The Olimar will want to get out as fast as he can when you get in.
--------------------------------------
Inference error.

I wasn't aware Olimar can smash or grab without pikmin. WEIRD.

When doing my trick, you have to actually try it first before you tear it apart. I've found great success with it. It's probably because I'm lazy but when it actually wins me games, I GUESS it could be considered efficient. It's like saying someone's birthday cake is bad before you even try it. Way to ruin someone's birthday.

One more thing to address. I did enjoy the first point of your post as it just flat out had a question, which I was happy to answer. The rest of your post, while not directly attacking me, had a very (possibly inadvertent) arrogant tone. In the future, I would prefer it if you didn't talk down to another player without either personally knowing them, nor testing out the help they offer you. Everyone works and thinks differently, have different experiences. These things I have personally noticed, and tried out in actual matches and find them working consistently (as long as I don't spam them so the opponent picks up on them).

More to come. Have a nice day.

 

[Dabuz]

if olimar tries to let go and regrab edge, G&W should **** him with dash attack (cause its gay like that)

also, olimar's yellow and red smashes beat out A LOT of G&W's moves (especially yellow, it even beats out bair, so does perfectly timed purples, yum)

what else, olimar gets beaten equally bad on brinstar and RC, so its all preference on what olimar should ban ( i personally rather G&W taking me to RC, don't think I've lost there to a G&W yet )

each character kills the other around 70%! with their strongest smashes even with moderate DI (olimars purple anything or sweetspot dsmash, G&W's fmash sweetspotted0

G&W bair can be punished harshly with nair, upair, really well spacedfairs, upsmashes, and up-B, and with fast DI+SDI olimar can DI out and above bair mid move for ground cancelled nair combos

G&W can easily run at olimar when he short hop side-Bs for the grab setups

on the edge olimar can spam grab for a 50% chance of catching G&W as he jumps off the edge or W/E he does

BTW, oli has decent advantage in this MU, its all experience, olimar has a concrete solution to everything G&W can do, its ALL PRACTICE on oli's side, the only reason its not one-sided is because of general human error and not being able to react fast enough consistently



edit: watching denti vs. random G&W main debate shall be interesting :3

 

[SorryAboutYourDaughter]

I play a good olimar on a regular basis, and the match-up can be 50-50, if you know Olimar well. If you have little experience with Olimar it's about 55-45 Olimar.

The biggest annoyance here is the approach. Olimar's ability to grab you half way across the stage, and his ability to produce smashes repeatedly, and quickly, almost rules out a ground approach. Approaching him from above only works if you're close enough to the ground to deflect anything with dair, don't count on that. Also, he can surprise you with a standing up-b, which strikes at a 45 degree angle, whichever direction he's facing.

If you let him camp too long, he's gonna spam the pikmin throw, and those white ones can rack up damage.

THE GOOD NEWS: Once you get in his face you smack him around like a sandbag!!!!


The safest way to approach, (for me), is to coax him in with some well spaced bairs. Fall short so he trys to grab you, (Olimars usually place too much confidence in their grab), that's when you start the game of cat and mouse. Keep baiting until you eventually get in his face.

Also, Olimar almost always gets caught up in dthrow>dsmash. This gets him off the ledge far enough, if he's 45% or more, to lead to the glorious ledge-hog! (Something you gotta do a lot of to kill Olimar)

This will be the most boring, tit-for-tat match of your life!!!!! Avoid Yoshi's Island at ALL Costs!!

 

[Today]

One thing I've heard Fearless say (Basically FL's best Olimar) is he is never going to spot dodge. He'd rather shield and take a grab than take a hit from a smash, since almost no throw in the game is a kill throw. That's just him though, Idk if other Olimars have this mindset. But if this is a consistent MOT then you can bait shields with Nair for grabs...which set you up for GaW's superior juggle game.

One of my favorite tricks that I keep up my sleeve is when I'm a stock ahead, and he's mid stock (60-80), I let him throw as many pikmin as he will at me. I let them all latch onto me and walk towards him. Given he may save ONE pikmin, but with such a slow, obvious, (AND ******) approach you can predict he'll either smash or grab. Managing to shield/spot dodge accordingly, just charge an up smash in his face until he does something...anything. With the 982734798679834689 pikmin on you, it makes the Upsmash's hit box stay out for more than an entire second (!) colliding with all those pikmin. I know it stales your upsmash to bloody bits, but with olimar's weight, percentage, and your charge, it's usually more than enough to kill him.

Also, if you don't want pikmin on you, Up B + Nair kills them all/gets rid of them.

Also during the match, continuously jab those pikmin that just happen to walk by. Or up air them if they're above you. If he's not gonna approach, you can at least make sure your important moves are fresh.

I honestly don't think this MU is in their favor. Well, lemme rephrase that. On anything but final D, I don't think the MU is in their favor. The killing power and juggle game we have is just way too good.

You probably shouldn't allow a bunch of Pikmins to latch on you and go for a kill. You'd probably eat tons of percentages. Not only that you can't be for certain that your smash will land and GnW has an issue with landing kills. Also, even with one Pikmin one Pikmin can still do something. Olimar can still Whistle Pikmin back.
All in all, don't do that. Nair the Pikmin. No need to allow Pikmin attach you and keep them on there. It'd be really silly.

You can just bair wall or dtilt upcoming Pikmin. I find it easy to short hop bair bait.

I have videos of me playing Andrew/Hilt so I plan on posting them. They should be helpful.

 

[Dnyce]

Neutral air through his shield to the other side of him. Easy.

I guess I should re-state this: Neutral-air has a -1 shield drop advantage, and Mr. Game & Watch's grab is 6 frames.
Moves Olimar can use before Mr. Game & Watch can grab: jab, down-tilt, up-tilt as well as retreating options.
Landing behind Olimar does not change the frames in which your move ends or how much lag it has. Your argument is invalid.

Does it matter? The given scenario would put you at a 2 stock lead, then you're free to roam the cabin. If you do this to him on his last stock, why would it matter? I wouldn't care if my percent was 999% if I watched him die off the ceiling.

I attempted to show you that your "trick" was an absurd high-risk with a nil return. I don't doubt the possibility, more advocate that the tactic not be encouraged. The equivalent of your "trick" is walking up to someone and then Falcon punching them, if Falcon punch inflicted 80-120% to Captain Falcon in the process.

I believe I addressed that by saying "Managing to spot dodge/power shield accordingly." If he's laying a barrage of pikmin on you, you can see the purp coming from a mile away.

Rather ideal reality you live in Novabound.
Counterpoint: If Mr. Game & Watch uses any move then Olimar just "spot dodge/power shields" accordingly (the original text just said shielding by the way) since most of his movements are telegraphed.

I will take credit for revolutionizing the meta-game later. Thank you.


I apologize, I didn't give you a chance to rescind your argument; however, I do hope you see the error in your logic.

I wasn't aware Olimar can smash or grab without pikmin. WEIRD.

Given he may save ONE pikmin, but with such a slow, obvious, (AND ******) approach you can predict he'll either smash or grab.

Perhaps you forgot what you wrote again? Either way, Pikmin stay latched for a certain amount of time based on the damage of the opponent. Given the "slow, obvious, (AND ******) approach" I would estimate one or two to fall off before you make it over.

When doing my trick, you have to actually try it first before you tear it apart. I've found great success with it. It's probably because I'm lazy but when it actually wins me games, I GUESS it could be considered efficient. It's like saying someone's birthday cake is bad before you even try it. Way to ruin someone's birthday.

Would you like a corner piece?

One more thing to address. I did enjoy the first point of your post as it just flat out had a question, which I was happy to answer. The rest of your post, while not directly attacking me, had a very (possibly inadvertent) arrogant tone. In the future, I would prefer it if you didn't talk down to another player without either personally knowing them, nor testing out the help they offer you. Everyone works and thinks differently, have different experiences. These things I have personally noticed, and tried out in actual matches and find them working consistently (as long as I don't spam them so the opponent picks up on them).

I do not intend to talk down or up to anyone, I only aim to speak logically (talking angrily / ignorantly leads me to post as I did this time). What you say is incongruent with the aforementioned and I have taken the time to break it down for you. If you wish to continue your argument please take the time, as I have, to break what you say down in a manor that makes sense. If you find fallacy in my arguments I do ask that you point them out so that we may both learn. Unfortunately, it seems most of what I have said has not gotten through.
I advise you listen to Today as she plays both Olimar and Mr. Game & Watch, as well as having lots of experience with the Olimar: Mr. Game & Watch match-up.

Also, Olimar almost always gets caught up in dthrow>dsmash. This gets him off the ledge far enough, if he's 45% or more, to lead to the glorious ledge-hog! (Something you gotta do a lot of to kill Olimar)

I agree with all of your post except this portion, and I only disagree to an extent. If you take time to teach the Olimar that you play with to tech the down-throw consistently, I believe you will find him getting hit by it less. However, once it's broken down to a guessing game he may still be hit by it anticipating a tech-chase to either direction and will destroy him as you mentioned.

That being said, assuming that the Olimar cannot consistently tech the down-throw to down-smash when first playing an Olimar is the smartest option when playing a set.

Additionally, I should mention since SorryAboutYourDaughter brought it up; match-up ratios should be treated as those of top-level players with an intimate understanding of the match-up.

 

[Today]

Also, Olimar almost always gets caught up in dthrow>dsmash. This gets him off the ledge far enough, if he's 45% or more, to lead to the glorious ledge-hog! (Something you gotta do a lot of to kill Olimar)

This will be the most boring, tit-for-tat match of your life!!!!! Avoid Yoshi's Island at ALL Costs!!

An Olimar won't always go for d-throw>dsmash. Hilt always techs it when I play him. I always find myself having to tech-chase him more than being able to dsmash.
Yoshi's Island isn't really that serious? I think Olimar is okay on it but it's not like an autoban.

Avoid Yoshi's Island at ALL Costs!!

I've never even been CP there by an Olimar. Moreso just look over Delfino, Castle Siege, Halberd, Picto Chat, and definitely Luigi's Mansion, Distant Planet, and Yoshi Island Melee if they're legal.

I play a good olimar on a regular basis, and the match-up can be 50-50, if you know Olimar well. If you have little experience with Olimar it's about 55-45 Olimar

And agreed with what DITE said.
You can't really say, "For this person the Snake matchup is 60/40 and for me it's 20/80 and for him it's 50/50." That's not exactly a set ratio.

 

[Noraa]

Today i watched both matches, i think you could have kept olimar in the air alot longer. That may just be my style though. Felt sorry for your first stock in the game you lost lol, broken usmash >.<. Learned somethings though.

 

[Today]

Thanks! I'll try and get better at that. And glad I was able to help! (':

 

[Today]

S o guys. I'll like to finish this up so we can start discussing another character. I'm wanting to focus on one character a week.

So anymore opinions or oppositions? Does everyone agree with 55:45 Olimar? Those who disagree explain why.

 

[SFA Smiley]

I agree with that. I think we can definitely handle Olimar but he has the edge since we'll have to be doing most of the work.

 

[Novabound]

Could you give me a few more days Today? I wouldn't mind if you moved on, but there's one final contention I would like to make, but I need some more time. (School and work have me stapled down pretty tight.) If not, that's fine too.

 

[Today]

No worries. I'd like to wrap this up in a few days, but I still want opinions and ideas from a lot of people.

 

[kewl]

55/45 sounds good vs Olimar.
Olimar's uair will always beat our key, but our key will beat their usmash.
Good olimars will pivot grab you out of the turtle.

Basically dtilt space alot, since it deflects pikmins, and if you have pikmins latched on to you, i recommend UP-Bing as it removes all of the pikmin most of the time (sometimes one stays on, but just buffering a fishbowl should get him off). Keep him in the air, and nair juggle him.
Also he's not as hard to gimp as you think, but don't slowfall dair offstage, alot of olimars like to uair while they're recovering.
I'm not too skilled in this MU, basically just stating opinions over the few times i've played olimars, and my personal experience on using Olimar.

 

[PantyRaider08]

I have no idea how people think this is an even matchup. Someone help me I have been going meta to beat Olimar. I dtilt and neutral A and if I try and approach I get grabbed or upsmashed when they are spamming.

 

[Today]

It's just a slight disadvantaged. It's not like terribad. I mean. GnW can easily get Pikmin off of him. He can avoid grabs by Upbing away from Olimar and creating a bair/nair wall and there is spot dodging. Olimar is easy to juggle. Nair is your best option in this matchup. Dtilt works here really well, too. He can be really really hard if you don't know what to do, just like a lot of characters. Olimar is just a weirder one. But once you get the hang of things you learn what you shouldn't do and learn what you could do and then it's not that bad. You're just limited on some of the things you could do when fighting against Olimar. Which makes him still somewhat a hard matchup.

 

[SFA Smiley]

I have no idea how people think this is an even matchup. Someone help me I have been going meta to beat Olimar. I dtilt and neutral A and if I try and approach I get grabbed or upsmashed when they are spamming.

Don't worry, It's pretty hard when you dunno what to do.

 

[PantyRaider08]

I guess I just need more matchup xp with Oli.

 

[Today]

Bringing this back up. I'd like to try and finish this sometime quite soon so we can start on other characters. I'd still like to hear from others about 55/45 Olimar. I've only gotten a couple of feedback!

 

[Rajam]

Sorry the confusion but it's 55/45 Olimar advantage?
I don't pretend to give contra-arguments though, my Oli experience is low and chilean Olimars aren't very good. For me (that is, the Rajam vs. Olimars matchup lol) is 55/45 or 60/40 G&W advantage, but I insist than that's because I know what to do against Olimars, and they don't know what to do against me (I'm the only chilean who uses G&W ._.)

 

[Today]

Well remember, Rajam. You can't base off of your experience vs. another experience. See it as the best GnW vs the best Olimar. Or I guess the perfect GnW against the perfect Olimar.

 

[Rajam]

Mmmm I see
Well G&W has to approach Olimar; And idk if there is a safe approach against Olimar's pivot grab, besides some mixups with bair, nair, dair, dtilt, spotdodge, mindgames with spacing and good spacing overall. G&W still has excellent shield pressure and beats Olimar offstage and in the air... pretty much a fight of who gets the first hit to begin a string. I'd also agree with the ratio being 45:55 Olimar's advantage; a balanced fight where G&W has to approach, ***** if succeds, and ***** if fails. Olimar best weapon would be the projectile+pivot grab combo, forcing a non-safe approach, while G&W still can succed with his aerial mobility, nair, bair, dtilt and his overall amazing air+offstage game specially in this mu

 

[Today]

Yeap! I like the way that sounds. If we get in and get him up, we can wrack up some damage. But if we fail we he can wrack up the damage. His grabs are long and he can camp so we're forced to approach. Everything you said pretty much hit the spot. XP

 

[Metmetm3t]

I didn't see this so I'll add that DanGR taught me to dtilt if oli has to upB the edge. He literaly has to take the hit as he jumps to the ledge.

 

[Cel]

Once, i watched vex 3 stock a ranked PA olimar main (and he did this same strategy to other playes and won) on fd by doing up B literally every other move. Ive tried it a few times and it actually seems pretty effective. Just space the attacks you do well enough that you can get back in the air withoug getting grabbed.

 

[SFA Smiley]

Once, i watched vex 3 stock a ranked PA olimar main (and he did this same strategy to other playes and won) on fd by doing up B literally every other move. Ive tried it a few times and it actually seems pretty effective. Just space the attacks you do well enough that you can get back in the air withoug getting grabbed.

That ain't particularly new or exciting, that's just obvious.

Using a GTFO/Escape move for gtfo/escaping

 

[GBye]

Well remember, Rajam. You can't base off of your experience vs. another experience. See it as the best GnW vs the best Olimar. Or I guess the perfect GnW against the perfect Olimar.

A LvL9 CPU GnW against a LvL9 CPU Olimar, lol

 

[PK-ow!]

As a bonus, Chef burns some Pikmin that try to grab Gdubs unless Olimar respects it and works between the timing. Or grabs with a red pikmin.
Doesn't apply to pivot grabs (when he would do them) obviously, but it's a fancy wall to add one more step of complexity if Olimar wants your blood.

I don't know if it happens all the time though. It's a happened a few times and maybe I'm just lucky.


Other than that, I hate this MU just 'cause it makes correct play so lame. Lousy Olimar, making matches with my main boring. He's not even fun to beat up like Robot, 'cause he brings all the pikmanz into it.