Matchup Thread Export: Meta Knight

[Mr. Grey]

This is actually my worst matchup, first it was snake, then it was marth, now THIS is my worst matchup. I cant get MK to get in the air, once hes in the air I can usually control the match, but my ground game with G&W fails against MK, I always get stuck in a stage where I cant use bacon, Dtilt is the only thing keeping him off me, and that only works for so long. Everytime I Bair I eat either a Tornado or an up B.

I also have a problem grabbing him in this match, not sure why. And often times I cant land a kill so I wind up having to resort to uptilting him at high percentages.

Only Stage I can fight with confidence on is brinstar, the lava forces him in the air, and the dtilt can be used better on the stages crooked floor, If hes in the middle of doing something he can eat a Nair through the stage or an up B.

Besides Brinstar I have NO IDEA where to fight this dude. This is the match that always gets me eliminated early in tournies

I'm gonna have to wifi to get practice cause none of my friends play MK cause they all think hes gay and broken @_@, but idk if wifi is a good option.

can anyone give me some advice on fighting MK on the ground with mk?

is delfino that bad? theres a few places where you can tilt lock M isnt there?
and when the water part comes out you can easily kill with uptilt.

 

[Splice]

don't ever take MK to delfino lol
preferably i like fighting him on lylat
brinstar is good too

Agree with Delfino part. Its horrible

I go Brinstar or Green Greens (if its not banned) and also Norfair (in Australia no one abuses the anooying planky stuff that much so the matches are pretty straight forward)

 

[kewl]

i usually go brinstar on mk, it really does make things easier.
if i get brinstar banned, i can't go my staple cp which is delfino, i usually do horribly there vs MK, so i go Lylat.
lots of platforms, awkward stage, makes things go smoothly.

 

[UTDZac]

Delphino isn't that bad of a stage to take MK. It's decent. Though there are other counterpicks you can take him to.

I'm not really sure the best place to take MK. Try to avoid stages that have that controlling middle platform like Yoshis or Halberd. It makes it harder for you to approach MK if he's just sitting under the platform.

 

[PentaSalia]

another fun fact is that bacon strips stop his tornado too lol

 

[kewl]

lolol i noticed that the other day
i was like wtf why havent i used this move against mk much beforee

 

[DMG]

Bacon actually doesn't ALWAYS stop tornado. Depending on where MK hits it, he can actually go completely through and beat Bacon. So be cautious.

 

[kaak]

need fresh tips ....

 

[Mr.Jake and Skate]

Not sure if i saw it in here but did you mention the Dthrow to SHDair so you can re grab him quickly?

 

[PentaSalia]

no,it was never mentioned here lol.

Vinnie came up with it but only showed a few. It's called the Viva combo lol.

You got it tho.Basically dthrow and SHdair right away or it'll miss,then regrab. Works only at 0-20

 

[_OraNoS_]

Wait, you can re-grab after that Dair? (never tried honestly)

 

[DMG]

lol its a bad combo get out

SDI!!! Or DI away.

 

[PentaSalia]

ya but the point is that you won't expect it lol


10darkmagiciangirls

 

[DMG]

After you tell someone, they will

10DMG'SSSSS

 

[kaak]

thanks this really helps me -____________________________-

 

[A2ZOMG]

Yeah I have seen UTD Zac get punished a little too much for using Bacon for edgeguards for me to think it's a good idea.

Not that he'll fall for it more than once, but baiting him to use Tornado while he recovers is fun. DSMASH!

 

[Kadardes]

This thread seriously needs to get revived if Game and Watch ever is going to stand a chance in tournaments.. this matchup is just stupid at this point.

 

[PentaSalia]

i used to think that as well and used to play the MK MU stupidly but in the past month i've really learn a lot about the match up.

it's not as bad as you think lol

compared to other characters *cough* ganon,ike, G&W doesn't do that bad against MK.


It's all about baiting mangz, everyone knows this already but again=/,PRACTICE.

 

[DMG]

It's a bad matchup.

 

[UTDZac]

It really is a bad matchup. I firmly believe it's G&W's worst matchup.

 

[PentaSalia]

hush,hide the truth=((((((((((((((((((((((((((((

well at least basic MKs don't give us trouble <,< lol

 

[GTZ]

well basic MK is one thing, but as soon as you run into that fast jerkoff who knows how to evade every maneuver you throw at him, you are pretty much screwed.. buckit braking helps, so does precision projectiles and punishment. Obviously if the MK is very good, you will have trouble finding opportunities to punish your opponent. Surprisingly the hardest matchup I had other than a select few MK's was Snake..

 

[Valdens]

There's still debate as to whether or not MK is GnW's worst matchup?

lol...

 

[PentaSalia]

not really :/

i personally think marth is his worst,but not by much.
Both are still bad though LOL

 

[Mr.Jake and Skate]

I don't think MK is his worst MU.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Metaknight on paper is easily G&W's worst matchup, doesn't suffer from being CPed, outspaces G&W constantly, can land KOs much more easily.

But he tends to get wrecked if he screws up. *shrug*

 

[Splice]

MK in theory is easily hardest.

In practice Marth tends to present more challanges.

 

[Valdens]

In practice, there's also a 5:1 ratio of MK to Marth in your average tournament. >:|

A2, I agree that we have a lot of room for punishing an MK that screws up, but the "sit around and ftilt/dtilt and wait for us to try something" style of MK has no room to really mess up and shuts GnW down pretty completely.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Yeah, against a MK who just wants to play the safe and slow poke game...I dunno. All I can say is trick him.

 

[GTZ]

MK was the hardest matchup I had at DNA, granted I haven't played competitive brawl in 2 years, so my tactics are outdated... Has anybody won any tourneys with G&W recently at all? And another thing I have trouble with, even more than MK as a matchup, is Snake.. hate him... I don't know how to play a snake at all.. I try to be careful and I always mess up. The MK at the tourney messed me up real badly though.. I played against a number of them but if they play the cat and mouse game and force you to approach all the time, it sucks. The moves can punish a faulty MK, but faulty MK's don't win tourneys, smart ones do.. IDK I guess I have some serious practice to do.. People tell me to give up on G&W, but at least here I feel welcomed.. anybody wants to give me any advice, I'm a smash veteran who has to start over again...

 

[A2ZOMG]

I'm pretty much with Valdens that this matchup is too stupid.

Vs Snake is pretty much a matter of watching what he's doing and responding correctly. If he's fiddling around with grenades, close in with grabs. If he's trying to space you, outspace him with your aerials. After you get that one hit in, juggle him. When you need to kill him, read whether or not he tries for B reversals when recovering and try to land a Smash where he's going to land. Alternatively edgeguarding him with F-air/Judgement is good.

The matchup is really as simple as that. If you have the stock lead (or a percent lead can be just fine if there are platforms), then technically the best thing to do is just camp. Snake pretty much is only going to hit you when you make a mistake.

Also if you D-throw him, the best option is Dash Attack. You can't really D-throw -> Smash a Snake who techs in place since as I recall he can U-tilt you before your D-smash comes out.

 

[Splice]

Imo you shouldnt even Dthrow him, Uthrow him or throw him offstage if it means he is going to need to UpB.

 

[A2ZOMG]

The fact that D-tilt and Dash attack are existent options out of D-throw actually makes it good in the Snake matchup. Dash attack imo sets up juggles better than U-throw, and D-tilt is the best way to get Snake offstage.

 

[Valdens]

I personally like the upward throws a lot vs Snake, dthrow always just seems really futile because it... puts him on the stage, the place where he wrecks you, as opposed to the air, where we can actually beat him up.

 

[Splice]

The fact that D-tilt and Dash attack are existent options out of D-throw actually makes it good in the Snake matchup. Dash attack imo sets up juggles better than U-throw, and D-tilt is the best way to get Snake offstage.

Dont see how Dash attack sets up better than Uthrow...
You hit him up a little bit and have some lag and are diagonal to him
Or you hit him up a lot, have no lag and are right below him.
Uthrow is way better set up.

And if Dtilt might get Snake offstage, he is just going to hold the other way so he falls behind you lol. Snake doesnt even need to worry if you read him out of Dthrow, there's jack all that you can do. Uthrow ftw.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Dont see how Dash attack sets up better than Uthrow...
You hit him up a little bit and have some lag and are diagonal to him
Or you hit him up a lot, have no lag and are right below him.
Uthrow is way better set up.

More damage, plus a better ability to bait an action that can be punished severely. When you U-throw Snake, the only things you can really bait from Snake are airdodge, B reversal, and attack. When you Dash Attack Snake at lower to moderate percents, he's in a position where you can bait his jump and punish it, while he still also has to worry about his options of attack and airdodge being unsafe. Plus, B reversaling in that position is pretty counterproductive.

And if Dtilt might get Snake offstage, he is just going to hold the other way so he falls behind you lol. Snake doesnt even need to worry if you read him out of Dthrow, there's jack all that you can do. Uthrow ftw.

Learn to buffer. Turnaround D-tilt is not actually that hard. 10 frames before you are in an actionable state, lightly press the opposite direction. Then buffer your D-tilt after that.

And guys, you're just using D-throw wrong if you think it's useless in this matchup. It's actually still really good and can lead to some very rewarding opportunities.

 

[super beans]

space the turtle right so they dont up b you out of it!!!

 

[Splice]

More damage, plus a better ability to bait an action that can be punished severely. When you U-throw Snake, the only things you can really bait from Snake are airdodge, B reversal, and attack. When you Dash Attack Snake at lower to moderate percents, he's in a position where you can bait his jump and punish it, while he still also has to worry about his options of attack and airdodge being unsafe. Plus, B reversaling in that position is pretty counterproductive.

That is alright sometimes, and I do that, but I prefer to take the risk of Uthrow because I'd rather get a good Nair in then a Bair (rarely Bair is preferable) and I'm confident in my ability to predict his options out of my Uthrow. If you use Uair on him after the Uthrow that makes it better too and you can recharge your smashes too, if he B-reversals you can just Uair it and space Nair so it doesn't blow up the grenade. The Dash Attack situation isn't terrible, but I prefer my options out of Uthrow, thankyou.

Learn to buffer. Turnaround D-tilt is not actually that hard. 10 frames before you are in an actionable state, lightly press the opposite direction. Then buffer your D-tilt after that.

Yes but then it's not gonna hit him off the edge anymore is it? Derp.

And guys, you're just using D-throw wrong if you think it's useless in this matchup. It's actually still really good and can lead to some very rewarding opportunities.

It's definitely nowhere near as good as Uthrow in this MU... I'm not using Dthrow wrong thanks I just know my options out of Uthrow if pulled off correctly are better than if I pull off what I do out of Dthrow correctly. If anything Dthrow is what you'd do if you arent confident in reading the opponent just coz Dash Attack and random airial are pretty much guaranteed, but I want to do much more than just that 8)

 

[A2ZOMG]

No, D-throw requires MORE reads but the opportunities you get from it can lead to greater rewards.

And I would not recommend B-air out of Dash attack. F-air is much better and will get him offstage which will lead to more reading opportunities that can result in landing other aerials. When you land D-throw -> DA -> F-air, you do like 33 damage and by that point Snake is probably offstage, which is G&W's best position against Snake and leads either to edgetrap situations (EXTREMELY good for G&W) or things like more F-air or Judgement edgeguards. Assuming you got free damage on Snake with your Judgement/F-air edgeguards, then he has to use up all his recovery resources to get back onstage which is the other very favorable position for G&W to be in.

If you bait Snake's jump from the Dash attack position however, you can land ANYTHING YOU WANT basically. D-throw -> DA -> N-airx2 if you bait his jump from that position is like 50 damage right off the bat. U-throw -> N-airx2 is only like 41 damage max, and if he's airdodging while fastfalling, you're probably not going to get in every hit of N-air either.

plus I lol at the concept of Snake always picking the most predictable option when you techchase him if you have any idea how techchasing actually works since there are always options to cover everything he does. The THREAT of D-tilt putting Snake offstage already has Snake at a disadvantage if it means he has to deliberately avoid it, since you can still have good options for punishing his other getup options.

Of course, I'm not suggesting that you should always be going for D-throw followups, since reads require effort. But they can't be ignored since a good read from them is very very rewarding in all matchups.

 

[Splice]

No, D-throw requires MORE reads but the opportunities you get from it can lead to greater rewards.

And I would not recommend B-air out of Dash attack. F-air is much better and will get him offstage which will lead to more reading opportunities that can result in landing other aerials. When you land D-throw -> DA -> F-air, you do like 33 damage and by that point Snake is probably offstage, which is G&W's best position against Snake and leads either to edgetrap situations (EXTREMELY good for G&W) or things like more F-air or Judgement edgeguards. Assuming you got free damage on Snake with your Judgement/F-air edgeguards, then he has to use up all his recovery resources to get back onstage which is the other very favorable position for G&W to be in.

If you bait Snake's jump from the Dash attack position however, you can land ANYTHING YOU WANT basically. D-throw -> DA -> N-airx2 if you bait his jump from that position is like 50 damage right off the bat. U-throw -> N-airx2 is only like 41 damage max, and if he's airdodging while fastfalling, you're probably not going to get in every hit of N-air either.

Yeah I accept that, guess it's not that bad. But I still prefer Uthrow because you get more of an oppurtunity to use Uair. I'm not talking like a combo straight out of Uthrow, I mean you throw him up, Nair him a bit, but basically keep him in the air as long as you can, because Snake doesn't have much room for error in the air against GaW, and you can get lot's of %. I just find it's GaWs time to shine at that point. I can see why you'd choose Dthrow now at least, but I still prefer my Uthrow options thanks.

plus I lol at the concept of Snake always picking the most predictable option when you techchase him if you have any idea how techchasing actually works since there are always options to cover everything he does. The THREAT of D-tilt putting Snake offstage already has Snake at a disadvantage if it means he has to deliberately avoid it, since you can still have good options for punishing his other getup options.

don't be stupid. Snake really doesn't care if he get's hit by one Dtilt, and realisticly he shouldn't let you grab him enough so that it adds up. If you are close enough to the edge and he gets the read on you, he'll probably roll to the edge yep, and punish you Dtilting the other way, but that's risky for him still, and if he was winning I doubt he'd make that choice. Snake seems to work better if you take some risks though... but I don't think this applies. The disadvantage can be used in your favour though because now it makes the Dash Attack into Nairx2 easier to pull off because he is more likely to roll away from the edge imo. Basically if you try to punish him rolling away from the edge, you should be using Dash Attack, not buffering turn around Dtilt anymore, thus buffering Dtilt when it won't hit him offstage is stupid, like i said.

Now back to Meta Knight... lol!