Matchup Thread Export: King Dedede

[Today]

King Dedede

Discuss!

 

[A2ZOMG]

You have soooooo many dumb options against DDD to poke him into oblivion.

On BF, sit on a platform and D-tilt. Walls the hell out of 95% of his options, and it's a great edgeguard. Keep in mind, if you edgeguard with this, his <100% getup attack DOES reach the platform.

Chef is awesome against D3, especially if he's on the edge and you space it correctly.

Fullhop spacing him is really awesome.

Powershield his F-tilt and Waddle Dees, and try to SDI his U-air/D-air if they hit you. It helps a lot.

idk what else to say atm.

 

[UTDZac]

Can we move discussion to the thread we already have:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=244487

If you need to update the OP of that thread with new information, just compile it for me into a PM

 

[Today]

I think we should stay with the new one. I hope I'm not sounding rude or anything. But since we're starting from scratch and all over with updated information, etc it'd be best to start. Sadly, that one hasn't been posted in over seven months as well. So we're starting from a clean slate here. Plus, yeah I wouldn't be able to edit the OP.

 

[UTDZac]

Ok np. Mind if I bring in some information into the OP then? Not any of that outdated stuff, just frame data. I find frame data super useful.

Thanks again btw =)

 

[Today]

Sure! That's fine by me! I hope I didn't seem rude. Also, thanks for the help!

 

[Alphicans]

This match-up is deceivingly hard :\. That's all I have to say lol...

 

[Kofu]

This match-up is deceivingly hard :\. That's all I have to say lol...

Glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks so.
I'm no expert, but as far as I know you pretty much have to approach thanks to the Waddle Dees, and his FTilt makes it hard to get close to him from the front. If he camps under a platform, it's hard to hit him. Sure, once you get in you can wreck him, and (I think?) we gimp him well, but it's actually breaking past his walling that's hard.

I have the same problem with Snake tbh

 

[A2ZOMG]

You don't have to approach DDD ever technically. His Waddles aren't real projectiles. They're just walls against other projectiles, and you can just powershield those if that's all he wants to do. Same goes for his F-tilt as well.

I suggest you also learn platform drop -> D-air and spacing D-tilt from platforms.

 

[SFA Smiley]

Maybe i'm just ******** I tried that Dtilt on battlefield **** yesterday and it was funny for about 4 seconds until he just rolled behind me. I was expecting to lol for AT LEAST 10 seconds. Go ahead just call me ********

 

[PentaSalia]

that dtilt thing doesnt work lol

and IMO,id never take a campy DDD to BF because he will win lol


Though waddle dees aren't your biggest problem in this match up
it's his ftilt and his grabs

Quick tip against DDD's grab
- Don't ever auto jump after he throws you(fthrow,dthrow),or you'll get hit by his fair lol.
- and i'm pretty sure we're all aware about his dthrow into dash attack. You can escape it most of the times by teching it and using up and B right away. I suggest practicing this,it helps.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I dunno what you're doing wrong, because I played Junk's D3 and it worked amazingly well, and I would just use D-tilts on reaction when he walked or jumped towards me and then mix it up with aerial pressure. You must suck at buffering it or something, because it's something I have practiced a LOT. I would just spend time learning how to buffer my D-tilt as I landed (B-air canceling helps increase the buffer window).

If you got the lead then this tactic is ****ing **** lol.

I just think G&Ws don't know how to abuse platform drop D-air and spaced D-tilts in this matchup.

 

[SFA Smiley]

I dunno what you're doing wrong, because I played Junk's D3 and it worked amazingly well, and I would just use D-tilts on reaction when he walked or jumped towards me and then mix it up with aerial pressure. You must suck at buffering it or something, because it's something I have practiced a LOT. I would just spend time learning how to buffer my D-tilt as I landed (B-air canceling helps increase the buffer window).

If you got the lead then this tactic is ****ing **** lol.

I just think G&Ws don't know how to abuse platform drop D-air and spaced D-tilts in this matchup.

I misunderstood, I thought it was just totally easy mode just sit there and Dtilt repeatedly and laughs. I only took him to BF to try it out because I wanted to see if it worked.

 

[Noraa]

the dtilt platform strat works for me, yall are crazy lol

 

[PentaSalia]

lol A2

video demonstration plz;(

 

[A2ZOMG]

Yeah later.

It's like number 9000 on my list of over 9000 things I need to record and upload on youtube lol.

 

[kaak]

gimp d3 it is way to easy
look out for random fsmash that kick out turtle
dont jump after inhale realease
upairitll all hes jumps are gone
cheff

 

[Today]

I'll actually have some King D3 videos I'll have up shortly! Hopefully tomorrow. I'll also write a review on him tomorrow, too.

 

[Noraa]

I actually lost to a d3 on aib today 2-1 =/ i fail

 

[TheHebrewHammer]

This MU is hella annoying! It usually ends up being a time out whenever I verse one

 

[Tetz]

gimp d3 it is way to easy
look out for random fsmash that kick out turtle
dont jump after inhale realease
upairitll all hes jumps are gone
cheff

^I´m agree
At all I´m agrre with 55:45 in Gaw favour.
60:40 only on Rainbow cruise, Norfair or Corneria I think.

 

[Alphicans]

The match-up is really straight forward in a sense, it's just annoying. Approaching is an issue, and getting caught in stupid grab traps is as well. Play a defensive game, and don't go too far with your momentum I guess. Really general statements, but DDD plays a good keep away game I feel, so those are the strategies I use.

 

[PK-ow!]

How high off the ground does G&W have to be to escape D3's grab bubble? And then, I know we don't have a framework for getting this kind of information precisely, but how quickly can G&W get there with a full jump?

I mean, I'm wondering if you can FJ FAir and somehow avoid or at least minimize your damage. Or do something else with a close jump, and beat utilt.

 

[Today]

So like half of my stuff was deleted because Smashboards randomly logged me out. XD; And I had wrote a lot of stuff. But I'll try and be as detailing again as possible!! I'm really sorry, guys! I hope it's still just as useful!
But I have a Dedede that lives 20 minutes away from me so I get all the practice. And a lot more since I play tons of Dedede secondaries.

Okay, so I think it's 45:55 Dededes favor. Dtilt will NOT ALWAYS WORK. What stops a Dedede from powershielding to utilt? Because if they expect it they will do that. You can also dsmash and dair through platforms as well. However, get them when they least expect it. A dsmash on platform kill can work. If they powershield your dtilt or whatever UPB away. Most good Dededes will NOT keep getting hit by dtilt on platforms. So don't try this trick on a good player. I think it works maybe at the beginning when they have no clue. And then get them when they aren't expecting it.

I also remember mentioning about dthrow. At killing percents he may probably dthrow you to dash attack which will kill.
If he dthrows you NEAR A LEDGE. He probably WILL dsmash you. So get up attack! Why? Well, if you roll behind him you'll get hit by dsmash. And if you roll towards the ledge, you aren't going far because you're still near him so you'll get hit by dsmash. Therefore best conclusion is to use a get up attack. They normally charge a dsmash, too. So be careful. Also, a Dedede could be smart and mix it up. If they realize dtrow to dsmash isn't working they might dash attack. So just keep that in mind.

Hm... I think that was everything that was deleted... If not I will add more!


If he has ftilt out watch how he's doing it and just powershield him. You can grab him. Or if he spotdodges, read his spotdodges and set up a charged smash or a dash attack. He's big so it's easy to wrack on damage with nair and uair stuff. Mainly if I have to I'll try and get him above me (with dash attack to nair or just upthrow him) and I usually wrack up damage that way. Best stage to take him is Battlefield because of the platforms. He's a lot easier to juggle there and to pretty much nair him a lot. Uh... don't try and chase him too much when he's off stage because of inhale. If you see him inhaling you on the ground you can usually charge an fsmash that still hurts him, and sometimes it'll hit him our of it.I noticed fair work sometimes, too. And once I was able to inhale to grab on him. But maybe this is just luck. I never tried to use Chef during inhale, but I can imagine that being good.It could hit him out of Inhale to x. If he's off stage I suggest just keeping him up in the air and above you or nair him. I mean, fair may work if you know he's not going to swallowcide you. Uh~ And this is pretty much it! I think it's in his favor a bit mainly because a Dedede that knows about GnW you probably won't end up on Battlefield with Five starters. So the dtilt stuff it all out. His grabs still kind of hurt. Even if you powershield his ftilt, he may start mixing it up. GnW is pretty light so and Dedede vice-versa so he can kill us early while he dies a bit later. So DI'ing and Bucket Breaking is good. It's just hard to get in with baiting because of his ftilt. But all in all, GnW has some things on him. And I don't think it's terribad for GnW. So 45:55 Dedede favor. Agree? Disagree? Reasons?

 

[Commander_Beef]

This match-up is deceivingly hard :\. That's all I have to say lol...

If it's hard for only yourself...it just means that you need to work on the matchup and pick up with the other gaws.

 

[Fogo]

Looks like you guys got it under control. Plus Zac knows everything about this by now, lol.

 

[Alphicans]

If it's hard for only yourself...it just means that you need to work on the matchup and pick up with the other gaws.

Lol?... Going blind into the match-up it looks like it would easily be in GaW's favor, that's all I am saying. I personally think it's even or slightly in GaW's favor, but not like 60-40.

 

[Commander_Beef]

Lol?... Going blind into the match-up it looks like it would easily be in GaW's favor, that's all I am saying. I personally think it's even or slightly in GaW's favor, but not like 60-40.

All you said was that it was deceivingly hard. So I basically assumed it was hard for you. Specify who its hard for and maybe i won't quote you.

 

[Today]

Why's that, Alphicans? The ratio that is.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Playing against DDD is kinda like playing vs Ike and Snake....you just gotta be extremely patient and never make any unnecessarily risky approaches while picking him apart with good spacing and reactions.

But really, your options for picking him apart are just plain better as far as I'm concerned just because he's huge and doesn't have any real pokes.

 

[PentaSalia]

55:45 DDD's favor IMO

DDD can pretty much ftilt you half the times u try to approach by SH. It isnt bad enough that you shouldnt SH approach at all but it's something to definitely look out for,especially really campy DDD's. Also if he shields correctly, you will get grabbed alot if you space your bairs incorrectly. Overall G&W has a pretty easy time approaching tho.



Remember he can kill u early with his utilt around 80-90% but it's not as great as snake's utilt so just don't approach carelessly lol.

good stage: BF lylat,maybe FD,brinstar,rainbow(meh),maybe frigate
bad: YI halberd

edit: zac convinced me ftilt doesnt **** that much as long as you're smart about it lol V_V
in other words,HE CALLED ME STUPID D:

 

[UTDZac]

This matchup is definitely in G&W's favor (if you play smart, similar to playing against snake), but not by much. If anything I believe it's slightly above even for G&W, so maybe 55:45. If there's one thing you remember in this matchup, it's to remain unpredictable. The best way to do that is to lose that mentality of "I gotta keep throwing out attacks" and focus more on spacing and mixups.

Space Yourself
G&W can get around DDD's ftilt so easily, just time yourself and space correctly. It's honestly not that difficult if as long as you don't get spam happy. You can also avoid getting shield grabbed by spacing super tight. If you do get grabbed, note that you can hold down (DI the dthrow down) and tech roll behind DDD for a quick mixture. This will make it ridiculously harder for the DDD to techchase you. Never DI up, or the DDD can just re-grab you.

Avoid Kill Moves
G&W also has the ability to easily avoid all of DDD's kill moves (except upsmash/dair sometimes) similar to snake. Be smart about how you jump in to approach DDD and you shouldn't have any trouble avoiding that deadly utilt. Also be smart about using the invincibility frames you get after DDD dthrows you and use those to help avoid Dsmash / Dash Attack. DDD's bair will sometimes get you off stage simply because you've run out of options (it sucks cause it trades with the top half of G&W UpB). One thing I've noticed a few DDD's doing is spacing their upsmash against up dair. This is problematic for those of us that just assume our key is safe, and then WHAM! they outspace it with upsmash.

Stage Choice
Battlefield is one of the best stages to use against DDD, and I believe Lylat as well. Rainbow Cruise and Frigate, not so much (Lain did well against me on these stages back in the day).

Yoshi's Island can get you a free surprise kill move on the far right ledge if the DDD tries a getup attack over 100%. Normally they are invincible the whole attack (this is still true) however because of that weird slant, G&W can get in an fsmash and kill.

 

[Today]

To be honest, I've never seen a Dcubed used usmash. I barely remember what it looks like. However, although I think some things are avoidable I still think Dedede has more on GnW. Because what stops a Dedede from mixing things up, too? Especially playing around with ftilts.
The only things I can see GnW having is being able to approach and able to juggle him if needed. Which like I said before is good for wracking up damage. But Dedede can do so much more and set up kills better than GnW can. I'm willing to see this as a 50:50 straight out, but I in my mind D3's favor by slightly .

 

[rPSIvysaur]

I feel like the D3 in that video missed a few u-tilt moments.

 

[Commander_Beef]

55:45 DDD's favor IMO

DDD can pretty much ftilt you half the times u try to approach by SH. It isnt bad enough that you shouldnt SH approach at all but it's something to definitely look out for,especially really campy DDD's. Also if he shields correctly, you will get grabbed alot if you space your bairs incorrectly. Overall G&W has a pretty easy time approaching tho.



Remember he can kill u early with his utilt around 80-90% but it's not as great as snake's utilt so just don't approach carelessly lol.

good stage: BF lylat,maybe FD,brinstar,rainbow(meh),maybe frigate
bad: YI halberd

edit: zac convinced me ftilt doesnt **** that much as long as you're smart about it lol V_V
in other words,HE CALLED ME STUPID D:

Hey wassup. lol

Honestly whoever thinks this is 55:45 King Dedede, they just need to practice the matchup...because once both sides know the matchup well enough, it becomes even. Get that connection there [pplwhodon'tknowhowtoplayagainstddd] ??

And in that video... Fogo had several opportunities to cancel upB and make it safely back to the ledge..he was being a dumb*** in that match. Maybe because it was '09?

 

[Fogo]

He was being a dumb*** in that match. Maybe because it was '09?

09 johns, Zac is still legit though, then and now. Listen to him and you shall prosper.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Of course Zac would do good in 09.

 

[Today]

Would people be okay considering this a flat out even matchup then? I need agreements otherwise I'll put it as it is and keep the info from this and the old theards! Thaaanks.