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Matchup Rediscussion: Zelda vs Snake

Sonic The Hedgedawg

Smash Hero
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Zelda cannot respond well to camping and snake can camp really well. Furthermore, up close, he just wrecks us with his tilts that beat out pretty much our whole repetoir.

Dsmash to Dair edgeguard can kill snake once he gets to a respectable damage, but, otherwise, we're probably not killing him until aroun 200% damage unless he makes some serious mistakes whereas he can begin killing us before we even hit triple digits.

Up there with Game & Watch as one of our worst matchups out there.

75:25 is GENEROUS to Zelda.
 

markopoleoh

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 12, 2009
Messages
49
Location
Maryland
id also say use dins fire when he starts to throw nades,

when he throws a nade, shield it, then dins fire away!
he will close in, thats when you U-smash or up tilt to get him in the air, your air game is a bit better then his, and if he martar slides to approach, jump and air dodge, he wont hit you with his F-smash if you do that, if you roll behind him, he will fsmash you for a good chance of death.

also,D-smash to space if he gets close, if he F-tilts,shield then roll or get in the air and jump away from him, attempt a lighting kick, then dins fire for a bit more knock back and damage,
 

Random Question

Smash Cadet
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Jan 8, 2009
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48
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Southeast
Hey. I might have some decent information. I main snake, and a very campy one at that. I like playing zelda for fun, and I deal with snakes grenades with air dodge cancel item throwing. It is a risk if the snake is REALLY good with cooking the nades, but if he throws them early it is a quick way of retaliating without using NL.
 

Mikey Lenetia

Smash Champion
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For those of us that feel they HAVE to get a Din's into the match somehow, try shielding the first grenade to backward Din's so you're falling back as the Din's goes toward Snake. It probably won't do anything, but at least you're attempting to cover yourself better than saying 'hey, I feel like getting blown up as I try to burn you.' ^_^;

Seriously, this matchup is HORRIBLE because of the disjointedness on... everything Snake has. You're going to have to bait ANYTHING Snake has in order to feel remotely safe with doing anything offensive. And even then, it's possible for him to recover faster from the cooldown than Zelda can approach due to her lack of speed. True, once you get Snake into the air, the matchup looks a lot better, but the hard part is getting Snake into the air in the first place.

As such, I'd say go to your most comfortable stage, since I can't think of any level aside from ones that hurt you that make Snake go into the air. The Metroid levels would be ones to look into... but Norfair can screw you over instead of helping with the random lava/fire waves, Frigate's flip is really the only thing that could possibly help you(and the right side of the level hurts both of you a ton), and Brinstar is a tiny level. Snake can tilt you all he wants there and have almost no backlash from it. So unless you're EXTREMELY comfortable on those stages, I wouldn't recommend it.

You might want to seriously think about water stages, like Delfino and Japes(if it isn't banned). If Snake falls into the water, then you could spam Din's or go for a gutsy dair, and dsmash can help set these up a bit better. And if you're both in there somehow on Delfino, I'd look into weak bairing to push him into the water and away from you, or fastfalling a nair into the water over and over to keep dragging Snake in to either do a lot of damage or setup for an opportunistic dair, since nair is faster than just about anything Snake can do(unless his back is to you...).

EDIT: Not sure EXACTLY if DI on the nair could turn the tables on you, so if someone can look into that that would be amazing. It'd still be something you might be able to pull off once or twice before having to do something else.

Japes opens the window for the stage to help you get a ton of free damage because of the current, and if he has to land, it's commonly right where you're standing, which makes it a lot easier to knock him back out there. He'd have to risk you hitting him back out, dtilt locking if he's in the right %s, grabbing the ledge, or getting around you to the stage behind you. Zelda has an easier time of these because of the vanishing properties of Farore's, but don't overestimate it, and dear lord do NOT land next to Snake unless you can't help it! Just beware of Snake instead knocking YOU into the water in either stage, as he can torture you, too, on recovery. These are mentions where if you notice you can make him feel pressured, they might be viable if you're EXTREMELY careful. Otherwise, I agree with the neutral picks as stated before, since you don't have to worry about random shenanigans messing you up/helping him out.

In any case, I would say Snake is only slightly easier than Meta because you have more options against him then Meta, especially in recovery and overall anything in the air against Snake. Though it's hilarious to kick/spike Meta out of his up B if he gets too greedy and you somehow can predict it(I've done it to people before, so don't think I'm just speaking theoretically). ^_^
 

sniperworm

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
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520
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Pearl City, HI
Though it's hilarious to kick/spike Meta out of his up B if he gets too greedy and you somehow can predict it.
This has me written all over it.

(I've done it to people before, so don't think I'm just speaking theoretically) ^_^
It's definitely possible. I've done it in tournaments a few times and in friendlies a whole bunch.
 

SuSa

Banned via Administration
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planking while watching anime with Fino
I feel the current 30:70 is accurate. It's not quite unwinnable but it is really hard.

Also facing campy Zelda's on Luigi's Mansion is fun. <_< Them thinking Zelda is unbeatable there. LOL.


Avoid stages with platforms. That's all I can really say that I don't think has been said...
 

SuSa

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planking while watching anime with Fino
Snake is a nightmare anywhere. <_< It's just Luigi's pillar can stop our grenades so people think its a bad stage for us.... which doesn't account for the multiple benefits the stage gives us. We can freshen/stale our moves on will. Meaning we can spam utilt to rack damage when your on the bottom (which even with DI is hard to avoid) and then simply go jab a pillar a few times or drop a few grenades near it to freshen up utilt, then KO you with it. <_< So many neat little tricks on that stage....

Anyways, reasons to avoid platforms:
  • They don't really help you at all in this matchup.
  • C4+Fsmash+Grenades have hitboxes BELOW THEM and suprisingly, people still fall for these....even though they know about them
  • ESPECIALLY on Smashville, the C4 allows for easier throw > c4 > aerial "combos"
  • Nair pressure on your shield when you are on a platform = too good
  • Platforms makes it easier to SDI out of your usmash *IIRC Usmash hits through the low platforms...* then if we had to land lower *no platforms)
  • I don't care what character you are, platform camping can make your life hell. Especially since we already outcamp you slightly. (Funny how Snake hates the air yet loves platforms
  • Other reasons I can't even think of right now.
 
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
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Random Question said:
I deal with snakes grenades with air dodge cancel item throwing
When Zelda gets it, a Snake would pull out a nade then shield drop it making the grenade that Zelda is holding drop from her hand then boom.
 
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