Week #27 : Lucas
Resetti knows what's up. Umm he DOES have his down B and... PK Freeeeeeze! >.>
Discuss!
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Matchup Discussion - Week #27 : Lucas
- Thread starter Teran
- Start date
Resetti knows what's up. Umm he DOES have his down B and... PK Freeeeeeze! >.>
Discuss!
Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2008
- Messages
- 19,345
A couple things. The magnet does prevent us from camping him out right, and he can cancel it in our face should he see us starting up a phantasm for us to run right into the attack. So all this really does is elimnate far up camping, lasers still play a good part of hitting lucas has the lag on the magnet can still be punished.
Like anyone else, we can CG lucas, but we have to be frame perfect on the dash or else he will get out, I'm not sure if we can BPG him though. Since Falco is so short to the ground when holding Lucas I do not think we can Air Release Lucas often to take advantage of the lag, even if we could, Boost Smash would probably be the only thing we have.
Lucas's smashes are pretty good. Dsmash hits 3 times with the 3rd being the more powerful of all the hits, iirc. Fsmash can reflect projectiles which spending a move to reflect a laser is pretty pointless. Upsmash has insane Star KO potiential. You do not want to get hit by the strong hit of that attack at high percents. The good thing is that it comes with really bad ending lag, so punish it always.
His PK1 is evil to our recovery, there really isn't anything we can do against it offstage except to just mix up recovery times, even if it means phantasming really high onto the stage, but I would recommend the 3/4 cancelled, further distance if you do that. Remember to reflect the PK fire should you see it, it gives decent knockback.
Lucas has decent recovery himself, as long as he doesn't mess up the PK2 himself it is fairly difficult to punish far offstage, but closer offstage run off and spike him or just Bair him. He does have the Zap Jump which gives him insane height and it combined with the magnet thing (not sure what it is called that makes propel himselfin the air) can give good horizontal and vertical recovery.
His aerials can combine well into ground attacks, Dair into Utilt is one I've seen, a more common one is the Nair.
(Add more later)
My opinion on the match up is 60-40 Falco. Lucas is a solid character and will give problems to the inexperienced, but after that, he just doesn't have much that really messes falco up seriously. Our laser game still shut down ground approaches fairly well.
Like anyone else, we can CG lucas, but we have to be frame perfect on the dash or else he will get out, I'm not sure if we can BPG him though. Since Falco is so short to the ground when holding Lucas I do not think we can Air Release Lucas often to take advantage of the lag, even if we could, Boost Smash would probably be the only thing we have.
Lucas's smashes are pretty good. Dsmash hits 3 times with the 3rd being the more powerful of all the hits, iirc. Fsmash can reflect projectiles which spending a move to reflect a laser is pretty pointless. Upsmash has insane Star KO potiential. You do not want to get hit by the strong hit of that attack at high percents. The good thing is that it comes with really bad ending lag, so punish it always.
His PK1 is evil to our recovery, there really isn't anything we can do against it offstage except to just mix up recovery times, even if it means phantasming really high onto the stage, but I would recommend the 3/4 cancelled, further distance if you do that. Remember to reflect the PK fire should you see it, it gives decent knockback.
Lucas has decent recovery himself, as long as he doesn't mess up the PK2 himself it is fairly difficult to punish far offstage, but closer offstage run off and spike him or just Bair him. He does have the Zap Jump which gives him insane height and it combined with the magnet thing (not sure what it is called that makes propel himselfin the air) can give good horizontal and vertical recovery.
His aerials can combine well into ground attacks, Dair into Utilt is one I've seen, a more common one is the Nair.
(Add more later)
My opinion on the match up is 60-40 Falco. Lucas is a solid character and will give problems to the inexperienced, but after that, he just doesn't have much that really messes falco up seriously. Our laser game still shut down ground approaches fairly well.
I used to be a Lucas main when the game first came out so I might know a few tricks of the trade.
Last week at a tournament, I fought a Lucas in a match as well in some friendlies. I was able to pull off Boost Pivot Grabs, but they had to be near perfect timing. Sometimes you would get it in, other times Lucas would just footstool off your head.
Camping is nearly out the question since Lucas magnet comes out much faster than Ness's magnet. The magnet is quite deceiving as it will absorb both lasers of the SHDL.
Since camping is not much of an option, close to mid combat is your best bet. Be wary of Lucas's Nair to AAA/ftilt/utlit/bat combo. The AAA attack is quite annoying since it can beat out a lot of your close combat moves and even has a hitbox behind Lucas!
Aerial fighting is quite a nuisance as well. Be careful approaching him from below since a full hop Dair will own Falco in the face. Your only option really is a well spaced Bair.
Recovering is also quite a *****. PK1 pretty much wrecks our day when we are phantasm recovering. The key to this though is to read the PK1 movement and if you phantasm at the right time, the PK1 will have no affect on your recovery. Try to aim for the edge as much as you can instead of on top of the stage. If Lucas's Usmash touches any one of our feathers, we're toast. A bat to the face following a on stage recovery isn't all that fun either. While on the edge do not try to fast fall to jump back onto the stage because a well placed PK1 will stage spike you. I've been a victim to it several times.
On the other hand, Lucas's recovery distance is very good, but the while he is using PK1 to get back to the stage is where he gets gimped. Usually if the Lucas is at stage level or a little bit below stage level, I will jump off to shoot a lone laser at him to stop him from recovering. This messes up a lot of players.
I think the matchup is 60-40 in favor of Falco. Just CG the hell out of Lucas, apply ground pressure, and space well in the air with Bair and you've got the match.
Last week at a tournament, I fought a Lucas in a match as well in some friendlies. I was able to pull off Boost Pivot Grabs, but they had to be near perfect timing. Sometimes you would get it in, other times Lucas would just footstool off your head.
Camping is nearly out the question since Lucas magnet comes out much faster than Ness's magnet. The magnet is quite deceiving as it will absorb both lasers of the SHDL.
Since camping is not much of an option, close to mid combat is your best bet. Be wary of Lucas's Nair to AAA/ftilt/utlit/bat combo. The AAA attack is quite annoying since it can beat out a lot of your close combat moves and even has a hitbox behind Lucas!
Aerial fighting is quite a nuisance as well. Be careful approaching him from below since a full hop Dair will own Falco in the face. Your only option really is a well spaced Bair.
Recovering is also quite a *****. PK1 pretty much wrecks our day when we are phantasm recovering. The key to this though is to read the PK1 movement and if you phantasm at the right time, the PK1 will have no affect on your recovery. Try to aim for the edge as much as you can instead of on top of the stage. If Lucas's Usmash touches any one of our feathers, we're toast. A bat to the face following a on stage recovery isn't all that fun either. While on the edge do not try to fast fall to jump back onto the stage because a well placed PK1 will stage spike you. I've been a victim to it several times.
On the other hand, Lucas's recovery distance is very good, but the while he is using PK1 to get back to the stage is where he gets gimped. Usually if the Lucas is at stage level or a little bit below stage level, I will jump off to shoot a lone laser at him to stop him from recovering. This messes up a lot of players.
I think the matchup is 60-40 in favor of Falco. Just CG the hell out of Lucas, apply ground pressure, and space well in the air with Bair and you've got the match.
Obviously more to come from me later.
CG > Spike is basically a stock, since he'll be forced into PKT recovery. A Bair stage spike will finish him off in this predicament, since he can't be aiming the PK1 at you and recovering at the same time. Also, lasers can mess him up as Jon said.
I agree with the 60-40, I'll add my input at a later stage.
CG > Spike is basically a stock, since he'll be forced into PKT recovery. A Bair stage spike will finish him off in this predicament, since he can't be aiming the PK1 at you and recovering at the same time. Also, lasers can mess him up as Jon said.
I agree with the 60-40, I'll add my input at a later stage.
BleachigoZX
Smash Master
I don't think Dair auto cancels so yeah, get Up-throw happy.
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
The lag isn't all that much yet exploitable
clowsui
Smash Legend
I know this matchup like the back of my hand, since I play the arguably best Lucas in the nation (Tyr_03 on smashboards, on honorable mention for Ohio PR and the only reason why he isn't ranked is because he's still in HS [graduating this yr tho] + doesn't always have time to go tournies...like me)
I'll post more on this later, but I think it's 6:4 Falco.
I'll post more on this later, but I think it's 6:4 Falco.
I usually try to edgeguard with PKT1 in a looping fashion so that you can phantasm into it and take the damage or phantasm above and land behind me into a PKT2. If I predict you're going to phantasm high up ahead of time I'll have an Usmash ready.
Fullhop Dair autocancels into multiple combos at lower percentages. Around 90% or so it combos into a Dtilt lock to Usmash or Fsmash for a kill. You can tech it if you have the timing right though (but almost no one does.) You can hit through Lucas's Dair with Uair well spaced from below as well as Bair and Fair from the sides.
The CG is annoying because it does a lot of damage but it's not that hard to recover from the spike. It's not a lost stock at all.
Well spaced PK Fires won't be reflected far enough to hit Lucas. Lucas's PK Fire is weird compared to other projectiles because it doesn't gain distance when it's reflected. You're usually better off just power shielding it.
We can absorb lasers but it's pretty dangerous for us to do that at mid and close range because you don't have lag after you shoot so it only means you can't camp, it doesn't mean lasers are useless.
I think it's 60-40 in Falco's favor as well. It's a pretty annoying matchup for me.
Hope that helps!
Fullhop Dair autocancels into multiple combos at lower percentages. Around 90% or so it combos into a Dtilt lock to Usmash or Fsmash for a kill. You can tech it if you have the timing right though (but almost no one does.) You can hit through Lucas's Dair with Uair well spaced from below as well as Bair and Fair from the sides.
The CG is annoying because it does a lot of damage but it's not that hard to recover from the spike. It's not a lost stock at all.
Well spaced PK Fires won't be reflected far enough to hit Lucas. Lucas's PK Fire is weird compared to other projectiles because it doesn't gain distance when it's reflected. You're usually better off just power shielding it.
We can absorb lasers but it's pretty dangerous for us to do that at mid and close range because you don't have lag after you shoot so it only means you can't camp, it doesn't mean lasers are useless.
I think it's 60-40 in Falco's favor as well. It's a pretty annoying matchup for me.
Hope that helps!
Emperor Time
Smash Lord
Lucas kills pretty well and has moves with deceptive range. I'm pretty sure most people won't give a care about reflecting the pk fire, so it can obviously be handled other ways. If we get close...ish we can avoid most magnet protection.
I think that if Falco stays on him, he'll take it :D
Just don't f up too much up close, b/c when Lucas punishes you, it will hurt.
60-40
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ncg5cNpT8pw >_>
I think that if Falco stays on him, he'll take it :D
Just don't f up too much up close, b/c when Lucas punishes you, it will hurt.
60-40
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ncg5cNpT8pw >_>
Blad01
Smash Lord
I've played a couple of times a good Lucas here (Glarion), and from that experience I would say it's 65-35 Falco.
I honnestly don't see Lucas winning 40% of the time against Falco
I will try to add more later... If I have enough time.
I honnestly don't see Lucas winning 40% of the time against Falco
I will try to add more later... If I have enough time.
Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2008
- Messages
- 19,345
Just a thought, I am pretty sure that you can attack lucas with anything when he uses the dtilt. So if they spam that try to punish it somehow althought normally they will only do it a couple of times I think to try to get a trip.
The lucas like another other character with a tether grab can try the jab (x2) > grab with decent effect if you shield the jabs all the time. So be wary of that.
If you happen to be caught in the dair try to DI to the ground and shield to avoid any attacks that lucas might try to chain directly after the Dair. DIing up I suppose would work too if you want to avoid the chance he will try to mix the timing up with smashes and grabs.
THe end of the bair can spike, so watch out for that. Lucas`s I have seen will try to follow your knockback at times with the Zap Jump when hit high into the air. But that is rare. I don't really know about PK freeze, I think it's a pretty poor choice option he has as all it really does is give you decent knockback up high and damage, PK1 is the better option as it can hit multiple times. PK2 can occasionally be used on the ground if that happens be prepared to run back a bit to where he will be and shield. You could try to hit him out of the attack, but shielding and trying to punish ending lag was always the better option in my opinion.
The lucas like another other character with a tether grab can try the jab (x2) > grab with decent effect if you shield the jabs all the time. So be wary of that.
If you happen to be caught in the dair try to DI to the ground and shield to avoid any attacks that lucas might try to chain directly after the Dair. DIing up I suppose would work too if you want to avoid the chance he will try to mix the timing up with smashes and grabs.
THe end of the bair can spike, so watch out for that. Lucas`s I have seen will try to follow your knockback at times with the Zap Jump when hit high into the air. But that is rare. I don't really know about PK freeze, I think it's a pretty poor choice option he has as all it really does is give you decent knockback up high and damage, PK1 is the better option as it can hit multiple times. PK2 can occasionally be used on the ground if that happens be prepared to run back a bit to where he will be and shield. You could try to hit him out of the attack, but shielding and trying to punish ending lag was always the better option in my opinion.
Denzi
Smash Master
I wouldn't get too close to this kid, because his jab combo wrecks as far as CQC goes. I'd try various length Phantasm cancels to try and get around the PK1 edgeguard, but if it comes down to taking the hit on landing near Lucas, I suggest taking the hit and DIing toward the stage so you don't get caught in the same situation again. of course, watch out for the Stick, as it kills pretty early for something that fast. He can also use it to try and reflect your lasers every once in a while to try and throw you off.
CG is nowhere a lost stock.
60-40 Falco.
CG is nowhere a lost stock.
60-40 Falco.
Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2008
- Messages
- 19,345
My CG attempt back fired. Spiked them after the CG, tried to wait a bit then Bair, but they did a reversed Zap Jump or something like that, the PK fire hit me (being at 100%) I took enough knock back that I got send far and low from the stage, and ended up getting edgehogged -_- Worst experience against a Lucas.
Is there a way to get the colored font all the time without having to go into advance set up or remembering to do the code for it?
Marcbri
Smash Lord
65-35 Falco imo.
Lucas has poor range in the air, your Bair > everything. if lucas is in the air, you win. His ground game is better, Ftilt, Fsmash and jab are good moves, so trying to go for a direct grab may be hard. I especially like to Dair him since he doesn't have good ways to stop it.Jab is also good to stop his fast moves. shooting lasers is still effective, even if they heal with him we can punish, so even if we can camp Lucas we still can do some nices setups with them.
Only real problems are:
-pk thunder that can gimp you. try to DI up to avoid a landspike ( or tech it) or getting to far of the stage.
-his smash attacks can kill you at very low % ( but all 3 are predictable, so if you get used he has a harder time killing)
-pk fire, which may be annoying but nothing that a power shield can't stop.
Lucas has poor range in the air, your Bair > everything. if lucas is in the air, you win. His ground game is better, Ftilt, Fsmash and jab are good moves, so trying to go for a direct grab may be hard. I especially like to Dair him since he doesn't have good ways to stop it.Jab is also good to stop his fast moves. shooting lasers is still effective, even if they heal with him we can punish, so even if we can camp Lucas we still can do some nices setups with them.
Only real problems are:
-pk thunder that can gimp you. try to DI up to avoid a landspike ( or tech it) or getting to far of the stage.
-his smash attacks can kill you at very low % ( but all 3 are predictable, so if you get used he has a harder time killing)
-pk fire, which may be annoying but nothing that a power shield can't stop.
pure_awesome
Smash Lord
Wow. I must really suck vers Lucas. I think it's like 55-45 for us, maybe 60-40. Ftilt or Bthrow to PKT edgeguard is toooo good.
Okay just to dispel some myths...
-DI upward against PKT1. It will almost always be angled to hit you away from the stage.
- Lucas's Uair beats Falco's Dair when spaced correctly.
-To escape Lucas's Dair, you smash DI upward during the first 3 hits. If you get hit by the 4th you can DI to the side in an attempt to mess up combos. Dair combos under 90% are TRUE COMBOS. You can shield but it won't do you any good unless he messes up.
-In the air, Lucas generally wins when he is above and to the side. If you're parallel with him you'll always win with Bair and if you are directly underneath you can win with Uair if you space and time well.
Also, Lucas's jab comes out in 2 frames. Be aware.
-DI upward against PKT1. It will almost always be angled to hit you away from the stage.
- Lucas's Uair beats Falco's Dair when spaced correctly.
-To escape Lucas's Dair, you smash DI upward during the first 3 hits. If you get hit by the 4th you can DI to the side in an attempt to mess up combos. Dair combos under 90% are TRUE COMBOS. You can shield but it won't do you any good unless he messes up.
-In the air, Lucas generally wins when he is above and to the side. If you're parallel with him you'll always win with Bair and if you are directly underneath you can win with Uair if you space and time well.
Also, Lucas's jab comes out in 2 frames. Be aware.
_clinton
Smash Master
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2006
- Messages
- 3,189
Comparing Lucas vs. Falco and Ness vs. Falco I can say one thing...Ness is a smaller and more mobile character overall...still...Lucas really has no reason to come close to falco if he doesn't need to for the most part...Plus I feel he has enough tricks to approach if he needs to...
Oh and while I said Ness is a more mobile character...do note that Lucas can travel the range of FD around a seconds time or so with his advanced tricks he has if you are good at them (Zap Jump, Magnet Pull)...other than that...do note that Lucas air movement is above average and his running speed is fast as well (so what I'm saying is...Lucas isn't slow ok...in fact he has more than a few moves that are above average as far as move speed with frames or so...Jab comes out on frame 2, Ftilt on 6, Utilt on 4, Dtilt on 3, all of his air moves (except Bair) have like 3-5 on their frame rate as well...and while his grab is a rope...do note that his pivot grab has fast cool down time)
Overall at lower % when the chain grab hurts more I'd say it is a lesser evil risking being gimped over getting 40% or so added on him just from getting grabbed once (plus Lucas' recovery is by far above average and he won't be gimped easily overall) because while Ness and Lucas are on the "must be done perfectly list as far as Falco's chain goes" it is possible...
After the chain no longer works (and Lucas is a mid weight) I'd rather bring the fight to Falco in the center of the stage overall if I can...
Lucas has more issues with killing overall than Ness does...however he isn't lacking in kill power IMO...do note that he does have set ups for his kill moves (please watch out for his 20% Dair at somewhat higher % unless you want a stick to the face)
Oh and do note that all of Lucas' throws can KO but unlike Ness' one KO throw...they are more affected by DI (so don't DI wrong)
Oh and people...Lucas' air game isn't bad...just saying that right now...his Fair is sort of like your Bair (only DJed) Nair is great as well...and Dair and Bair are both spikes (which are weaker than Ness' Dair but still do note that Bair does have about 2/3rd of the power Ness' Dair has) Uair is a good air as well...and all of his airs except Dair auto cancel...
Also...PSI magnet with Lucas comes out on Frame 10...Ness' comes out on frame 10...however Lucas' has less cool down time (just saying...Lucas' is faster...but only for cool down points)
Oh and while I said Ness is a more mobile character...do note that Lucas can travel the range of FD around a seconds time or so with his advanced tricks he has if you are good at them (Zap Jump, Magnet Pull)...other than that...do note that Lucas air movement is above average and his running speed is fast as well (so what I'm saying is...Lucas isn't slow ok...in fact he has more than a few moves that are above average as far as move speed with frames or so...Jab comes out on frame 2, Ftilt on 6, Utilt on 4, Dtilt on 3, all of his air moves (except Bair) have like 3-5 on their frame rate as well...and while his grab is a rope...do note that his pivot grab has fast cool down time)
Overall at lower % when the chain grab hurts more I'd say it is a lesser evil risking being gimped over getting 40% or so added on him just from getting grabbed once (plus Lucas' recovery is by far above average and he won't be gimped easily overall) because while Ness and Lucas are on the "must be done perfectly list as far as Falco's chain goes" it is possible...
After the chain no longer works (and Lucas is a mid weight) I'd rather bring the fight to Falco in the center of the stage overall if I can...
Lucas has more issues with killing overall than Ness does...however he isn't lacking in kill power IMO...do note that he does have set ups for his kill moves (please watch out for his 20% Dair at somewhat higher % unless you want a stick to the face)
Oh and do note that all of Lucas' throws can KO but unlike Ness' one KO throw...they are more affected by DI (so don't DI wrong)
Oh and people...Lucas' air game isn't bad...just saying that right now...his Fair is sort of like your Bair (only DJed) Nair is great as well...and Dair and Bair are both spikes (which are weaker than Ness' Dair but still do note that Bair does have about 2/3rd of the power Ness' Dair has) Uair is a good air as well...and all of his airs except Dair auto cancel...
Also...PSI magnet with Lucas comes out on Frame 10...Ness' comes out on frame 10...however Lucas' has less cool down time (just saying...Lucas' is faster...but only for cool down points)
BetaZealot
Smash Journeyman
My input is that:
Falco has better
Air
Projectile
Grabs
Lucas has better:
Recovery options (pk fire, that psi magnet thing in the air, pkt)
Ground game (smashes)
This is just a short thing I can think of, I'll add more in another post.
60:40 Falco
65:35 Falco
Falco has better
Air
Projectile
Grabs
Lucas has better:
Recovery options (pk fire, that psi magnet thing in the air, pkt)
Ground game (smashes)
This is just a short thing I can think of, I'll add more in another post.
60:40 Falco
65:35 Falco