MATCH UPS....throw anything you got.....

[boss8]

THIS WEEKS CHARACTER IS ending
Mario Match-up Guide Summary:

Metaknight:

Pros:

+Fairly easy to combo
+Can reliably kill at 100% +Dair out Prioritizes Tornado
+Lightweight
+Fludd can kinda push tornado
+Mario has fireballs


Cons:

- Metaknight is much faster
- Most of Metaknight's move out prioritize Mario's
- Metaknight has more range
- Hard to edgegaurd
- Mario is easily edgegaurded by Dair
- Hard to approach
- Tornado eats everything except Dair
-Gimps mario almost too easily
-Better combo ability

Mr.Game and Watch:

Pros:

+Game and Watch is lightweight
+Mario has have fludd and cape to gimp his B-up
+He is the perfect weight to combo on low percents. Fsmash and Usmash usually kill around 80-90 %


Cons:

-Game and Watch's aerial moves out prioritize Mario's
-Hard to space, and approach effectively against Game and Watch
-Vunerable to starting and ending lag punishment on some moves
-Turtle Shield Poke
-Disjointed hitboxes
-He can juggle you with neutral air and up air
-He has judgement, also can bucket fireballs killing you around 40%
-His up-b can gimp you if you edge stall


Marth:

Pros:
+Easy to edgeguard
+Fsmash competes with the range of his sword
+Vulnerable to KO at lower percents (110%-120%)
+Projectiles for safer approach and campy game.


Cons:

-Outranges you on most attacks
-SH Fairs are hard to punish as a recovery
-Racks up damage easily on Mario
-Quick kills with tippers

Some do's and don't against Marth
Do's:

1.Space
2.Use fireballs as an opening
3.Stay on marth if you keep your distance throw fireballs if your close attack dont give him a chance to breathe
4.Shield breaker will break your shield and it doesn't hafe to be half as charged so be careful

Don'ts:

1.Don't come in from above
2.Marth has more aerial priority over you so ground fighting is better for you.
3.Tipper-will kill you at 60% or more


Snake:

Pros:

+Easy to combo
+UP B easy to gimp
+Slow ending lag in tilts
+Sucks in the air
+Cape screws up Usmash edgeguard
+Easy to disrupt side B
+Vulnerable to fireball approach


Cons:

-More range and power
-More priority
-Very heavy and hard to kill
-Difficult to approach
-Caping his Up B gives a chance to do it again


Ice Climbers:

Pros:

+Nana isn't that smart, because of that seperating them prevents their chaingrabs
+Quite easy to combo and aren't better than mario in the air
+Fireball approach is good
+D-air seperates the Ice Climbers

Cons:

-Chain grabs 0 death kills
-Desyncing makes approaching them a little diffcult sometimes
-Popo is small but don't underestimate his strength.
-Watch out for Up B when you have high percent
-Popo by himself can still chaingrab Mario from 0-60%


Falco:

Pros:

+Very easy to gimp
+Low percentage KO's
+Cape screws up laser approaches
+Easy to rack up damage
+Fsmash outranges and outprioritizes many of Falco's attacks. An overall reliable KO attack against Falco
+Fireballs and high priority up-B during recovery to protect against Falco's edgeguarding
+Mario has less laggy aeiral attacks

Cons:

-Reflector screws up fireball approaches
-Nair spacing further screws up approach
-Falco racks up damage VERY quickly with CGs and good combo game
-Falco beats you in range and priority
-Falco has a better ground game
-Falco has more lag on his air attacks


Lucas:

Pros:

+Easy to 'gimp'
+Cape projectiles
+Better combo potential


Cons:

-Fsmash is fast and strong
-Dair is annoyng if used right
-Fireball camping doesn't work due to his Psi-magnet.
-Quite a few ledgeguard options
-Usmash kills at like 100% and has just plain silly range
-Fsmash comes out fast a kills quite easily
-Dsmash kills easily and the hitbox goes behind Lucas(Not nearly as powerful)-Nair last a while and autocancels and can go through some of Mario's attacks

Wolf:

Pros:

+Combo'd easily
+Wolf doesn't have much range
+Easily 'gimped' recovery
+Fireballs will help make approaching easier
+Wolf isn't so good in the air

Cons:

-More power
-Fsmash, and dsmash
-Quite heavy
-More priority
-More speed


Wario:

Pros:

+Mario can easily combo Wario
+Have a overall aerial advantage
+Can easily cape/gimp his up B

Cons:

-Wario's d-air
-Wario's bite stops Mario's air approaches
-Hard to K.O
-Wario's down throw can lead to chaingrabs
-Difficult to edgeguard due to his bike


Zelda:

Pros:

+Not to hard to edguard
+N-air, and cape goes through her Din Fire
+Easy to combo
+Can K.O. and around 100%
+Good D.I from fmsash can help you survive up to 150%

Cons:

-Outranges Mario
-Can K.O mario with upsmash at around 110%
-Neutral b can make it hard to fireball camp
-Dsmash can ko you due to the angle if your pushed off the edge
-Fsmash shield pokes


Peach:


Pros:

+Mario can rush Peach
+F.L.U.D.D can kill Peach if she's trying to float back to the stage
+Mario has a good combo ability
+Fireball is a safe way to approach
+Cape is a breeze

Cons:

-Hard to kill due to weak vertical K.O moves
-Auto cancelled aerials which make it hard to punish
-Her d-air can eat your shield and leads into combo's
-Hard to approach
-Turnip spam

Diddy Kong:

Pros:

+You can use his banana peels against him
+Good combo game
+Better priority
+K.O power
+F.L.U.U.D can wreck his spike

Cons:

-He can easily edgeguard you
-Diddy is better in the air
-His bananas are still a pain
-Better ground game


Zero Suit Samus:

Pros:

+Can easily predict her side B
+Laggy fsmash, dsmash, grab, and neutral b
+Can easily K.O her with a fresh fsmash or usmash
+Can last longer
+Fireballs prove annoying
+She's weak at fighting enemies below her
+Better priority

Cons:

-Can easily combo you
-Better range
-Hard to 'gimp'
-Easy to 'gimp' our recovery
-If you stay above her she can easily combo you
-Long grab distance

Olimar:

Pros:

+Can cape is Pikmin
+Easy to ledgeguard
+He's lightweight

Cons:

-Better at K.O'ing
-Aerials have good range and K.O power
- Olimar has more range/disjointed hit boxes on nearly every attack
- His grabs have more range and can kill
- Purples and Reds almost destroy your camping game
- Olimar has a near perfect edge guard on Mario with Fsmash


Pokemon Trainer (Squirtle):

Pros:

+He's light
+Laggy smashes
+Better ground game
+Less range

Cons:

-Hard to hit
-Good aerial game
-Semi-hard to 'gimp'
-Decent grab range
-Takes less knockback from fsmash


Pokemon Trainer (Ivysaur):

Pros:

+Easy to juggle
+Easy to 'gimp' recovery
+Fsmash has increased knockback

Cons:

-Good range on the ground
-Good grab range
-Better range
-Bullet seed will prove annoying


Pokemon Trainer (Charizard):

Pros:

+Large target
+Easy to juggle
+Easy to gimp

Cons:

-Can outrange Mario's attacks
-Hard to K.O
-Rock smash and shield grab our excellent defensive options against Mario
-Amazing grab range


Donkey Kong:

Pros:

+Easy to ledguard
+Easy to combo
+Easy to camp
+Racks up damage fairly easy
+Mario has more options then Donkey Kong

Cons:

-Can outrange you
-Can K.O Mario at around 60% with a fsmash
-Can release shield grab
-F.L.U.D.D is useless against his up-B
-Good grab range
-Hard to K.O due to his weight
-More priority

Pikachu:

Pros:

-the little mouse is lightweight
-fludd destroys recovery
-cape lightning.....or neutrual B
-comboing is decent

Cons:

-The mouse has more range then you
-more combo reliabilty
-QAC (quick attack cancel)
-Dsmash is tough to DI out of

Mario:

pros:

-can be comboed
-has eventually no lag
-can fireball
-gimp
-combo speed is on point

cons:

-he can copy your pros >_>
-he is you O_o

Samus

Pros:
Samus isn't too difficult to gimp and her KO power is lower than yours.
Samus is easy to combo
You can reflect her projectiles
Fireball helps with her z-air approaches

Cons:
Approaching Samus is just a pain, between the missles, the charge shot, and that godly Zair.
Samus can do some serious damage very quickly though
She can gimp you just as easily

Overall match-up. 50-50.

Sonic

Edit: *ShadowLink84, posted the pro's and cons, thanks the list wouldn't have been possible without your input. Also special thanks too all the other Sonic mains for their contributions. I took some information out of their Match up thread as well (thread link; http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=161598) I remember their being the Sonic export match-up discussion thread on our board, but I can't find.

Pros:
Mario has a good amount going for him though. FLUUD can ease the pressure.
Fireballs can help pressuring though overuse may lead to getting b-aired from behind as he spinshots.
Faster attack speed overall.
Faster Dsmash and Usmash, with the Usmash being more powerful.
Stronger ground game.

Pros:
Has a better aerial game.
Breaks through fireballs easily.
Can approach Mario easily.
Has a really nasty 32% combo up to higher percents.
Said nasty combo can do 42% when done correctly even if proper DI is done.
Has overall better grabs (he can follow from an Fthrow, Dthrow and Uthrow)
Can chase you to the ends of the earth.
Recovery that makes it hard to get a gimp K.O/kill him.

The overall match-up was 55:45 Mario's favour.

Kirby:

Pros:
+Kirby is affected by FIHL.
+Kirby is fairly easy to juggle.
+Kirby has bad approach options.
+Fireballs can prove annoying.

Cons:
-Mario is easy to combo.
-Mario is not hard to K.O.
-His recovery is predictable.
-Better priority.
-Disjointed hitboxes.

Pit

Pros:
+Pit range isn't impressive at all but, he has more range than Mario. (Unless Mario throws out a shutter steped Fsmash)
+Cape outranges all of Pit's aerials
+Smash and tilts are punishable by all of Mario's moves.
+Pit's moves are quite punishable
+Pit isn't too hard to 'gimp' either.
+Pit is really easy to combo and kill.
+Mario's air game is better than Pit's

Cons:
-Pit's Arrows can prove annoying.
-Better priority.
-He has better ground speed.
-Better aerial mobility.
-Pit's F-smash is relaitviely strong if it's fresh.
-Pit's ground game beats Mario's.
-Pit is keeping the pressure.
-Pit's smash attacks come out relatively quick.
-Pit can reverse Mario's Up-B with his shield.
-Disjointed Hitboxes.

Overall Match-up.
50:50? I've seen quite a debate over this.

Pro's:
+Ike's fairly slow.
+Recovery is easily thwarted via cape & Fludd.
+Very easy to juggle, even easier when he's in the air.
+B-air is really nice for approaching.
+F-tilt/U-tilt are very handly when on the ground. They come out quickly.
+D-air is a very safe approach to use.
+Fireballs help Mario with approach.
+Mario's Usmash out of shield works really good on a lot of Ike's approaches.
+Up B works against Jab Cancel's.

Con's:
-Jab combo is annoying at times. And racks up nice damage.
-He's powerful. Can KO you at ridiculously low percents if you get hit at the edge of the stage.
-His U-air/N-air have a somewhat decieving hitbox.
-If he's good at perfectshielding, his weak grabs can be annoying at times.
-Ike has good pressure at the ledgeguarding, making hit hard for Mario due to his small range.
-Difficult to approach.
-Grab release F-air combo on Mario.

Over-all Match-Up: 55:45 Mario's Favour.

R.O.B

Pros:
+R.O.B. is very easy to juggle.
+Cape neutralizes R.O.B.'s projectile spam and such.
+FIHL affects all his aerials.
+Mario is much faster in the air than R.O.B.
+Fireballs help a a lot to create openings for easy juggles.
+Jab outspeeds all of his attacks.
+More Reliable KO Potiential (fix'd)

Cons:
-Beastly recovery.
-More priority.
-Better reach.
-His Shield grab is annoying.
-KO Power is even with Mario's. (added)

Pros:
+Mario's combo game is good against Fox, due to his 'fast fall' physics.
+Mario has better combos.
+Mario can edgeguard Fox better then Fox can edgeguard Mario.
+Mario has a better air game then Fox.
+Fox is very light, making it easier to K.O him.

Cons:
-Fox has better priority range.
-Fox deals with fireballs effectively.
-His combo game isn't bad either.
-His Usmash is easy to land, and can K.O very early.
-Fox's ground game is better then Mario's.

55:45 in Mario's favour.

Sheik

Pros:
+Her lightweight makes it easier for us to K.O her.
+Mario has better priority.
+Better Disjointed hitboxes compared to Sheik.
+Mario can't be Ftilt locked conventionally.
+Mario can stop Shiek's combos with N-air or Up-B
+Mario can gimp Shiek decently well.

Neutrals
+/ They both can edgeguard eachother very well.
+/- About the same K.O power.

Cons:
-She can easily 'run' around Fireballs.
-Sheik is very fast making it quite hard to land an Fsmash.
-Sheik has superior mobility in approach
-Sheik is faster in almost every category (ground speed, air speed)
-Shiek can stop Mario's combos.
-Shiek's tether helps her recovery pretty well.
-Sheik has insanely good combo options.

50:50 Even

Sheik and Zelda

45:55 Shiek/Zelda

 

[Ranjiz]

pros- metaknight is a very lightweight character thus it's easy to ko with up-smash around 100% damage ratio.

easy to annoy MK with fireballl

cons- (there are many but i'll list just a few)

not easy to avoid MetaKnight's combo
You can get edgeledged easily when trying to recover
He's pretty quick

 

[boss8]

his no lag capibilites makes him annoying...u must constintly remain on him the whole time....don't give him a chance to attack.....

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

+ Dair out Prioritizes Tornado
+ Lightweight
+ Fludd can kinda push tornado
-----
- Metaknight is much faster
- Most of Metaknight's move out prioritize Mario's
- Metaknight has more range
- Hard as **** to edgegaurd
- Mario is easily edgegaurded by Dair
- Hard to approach
- Tornado eats everything except Dair

 

[???????]

Pros:

*Weight advantage*

*Projectiles*

Cons:

*All of Meta Knight's moves involve a disjointed hitbox (His sword)*

*Faster attacks*


Those are all the obvious pros and cons of the match-up that I can think of.

 

[Matador]

Vs Metaknight

+Decent projectile game
+Usmash (and apparently dair going by what monk has said) hit through his tornado
+Fairly easy to combo
+Can reliably kill at 100%

-Outprioritizes mario most of the time
-Gimps mario almost too easily
-Better combo ability
-Much faster than mario
-Extremely difficult to approach, even with the help of fireballs
-Outranges mario horribly
-More effective and safer recovery; difficult to gimp

Mario's hardest matchup imo. I never thought there'd be a match for mario more in the opposition's favor than Marth vs Mario in melee.

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

Vs Metaknight

+Decent projectile game
+Usmash (and apparently dair going by what monk has said) hit through his tornado
+Fairly easy to combo
+Can reliably kill at 100%

-Outprioritizes mario most of the time
-Gimps mario almost too easily
-Better combo ability
-Much faster than mario
-Extremely difficult to approach, even with the help of fireballs
-Outranges mario horribly
-More effective and safer recovery; difficult to gimp

Mario's hardest matchup imo. I never thought there'd be a match for mario more in the opposition's favor than Marth vs Mario in melee.

Usmash only hits through if the tornado is right above Dair hit's through as long as you hit with your hands

Combos don't exist when Metaknight can just Nair or Fair right through
----
Personally I didn't find Marth that hard in Melee

and I would think D3 would be the hardest match-up in brawl considering one grab= -1 stock

 

[Matador]

Usmash only hits through if the tornado is right above Dair hit's through as long as you hit with your hands

Combos don't exist when Metaknight can just Nair or Fair right through
----
Personally I didn't find Marth that hard in Melee

and I would think D3 would be the hardest match-up in brawl considering one grab= -1 stock

I actually just tested to see what attacks consistently go through the tornado, and I found that Usmash, in fact, doesn't go through every time. My apologies

I also found that attacks like Uair, Nair, and fireballs all go through the tornado if you attack the very top. Usmash goes through if the tornado is off the ground at all, dair actually stops the attack on occasion but never actually attacks through it (Perhaps I wasn't doing it right. I'd have to see what you mean by hitting it with your hands).

What I meant by combos is that mario's Utilt and Uair and Dthrow to Uair all work at lower percentages and can be chained together. Higher percentages, nothing can really chain together because a good MK will DI and Fair before you can attack again. Doesn't really matter much either way because approach is so difficult, you end up waiting for a mistake on their part to try and force in an attack.

Marth was definitely Mario's hardest matchup in melee. He had speed, range, simple combo game, and KO'd/Edgeguarded Mario very easily. That pretty much covered all of his matchups with any high tiers in melee, but Marth was the worst simply because comboing him was impossible. All that Mario had for him was his superb combo game and that ability was severely hindered if the marth knew to DI -> Fair. Fireballs weren't all that great in melee either.

ddd Is also one of his hardest, but at least Mario has some decent advantages in this matchup. Easy combos, easy gimping, and you're much faster. I'd see this as at least even if it weren't for his insane CG.

 

[Ranjiz]

speaking of CG, falco is also one of Mario's hard matchups as well. but this is about Metaknight lets not go off the point shall we? i found attempting combos to MK is extremely difficult even at lower percentages but it's easier than higher %. I'd like to add that side Smash and U smash are the only moves that can kill MK at low percentages around 100%ish?

 

[Matador]

speaking of CG, falco is also one of Mario's hard matchups as well. but this is about Metaknight lets not go off the point shall we? i found attempting combos to MK is extremely difficult even at lower percentages but it's easier than higher %. I'd like to add that side Smash and U smash are the only moves that can kill MK at low percentages around 100%ish?

Agreed, nothing else can really KO MK reliably except for Usmash and Fsmash.

 

[lime_backwards]

I actually just tested to see what attacks consistently go through the tornado, and I found that Usmash, in fact, doesn't go through every time. My apologies

I also found that attacks like Uair, Nair, and fireballs all go through the tornado if you attack the very top. Usmash goes through if the tornado is off the ground at all, dair actually stops the attack on occasion but never actually attacks through it (Perhaps I wasn't doing it right. I'd have to see what you mean by hitting it with your hands).

What I meant by combos is that mario's Utilt and Uair and Dthrow to Uair all work at lower percentages and can be chained together. Higher percentages, nothing can really chain together because a good MK will DI and Fair before you can attack again. Doesn't really matter much either way because approach is so difficult, you end up waiting for a mistake on their part to try and force in an attack.

Marth was definitely Mario's hardest matchup in melee. He had speed, range, simple combo game, and KO'd/Edgeguarded Mario very easily. That pretty much covered all of his matchups with any high tiers in melee, but Marth was the worst simply because comboing him was impossible. All that Mario had for him was his superb combo game and that ability was severely hindered if the marth knew to DI -> Fair. Fireballs weren't all that great in melee either.

ddd Is also one of his hardest, but at least Mario has some decent advantages in this matchup. Easy combos, easy gimping, and you're much faster. I'd see this as at least even if it weren't for his insane CG.

*Monk on Lime's account*


The reason why firballs and what not hit through the tornado is because Metaknight tornado doesn't cover the very tippy top of his head. While this is nifty...I'm not about to risk jumping into the tornado

Metaknight really can't be combo'd I tried for the generic Dthrow-> uair at 0% and got Naired

I'm not going to argue the difficulty of Melee match-ups because that would just be silly in a Brawl thread all I'm going to say is I lived to 200% against Marths.

here is the thing with Metaknight...you can make a mistake...and you can be alright however if you make a mistake against DDD you basically end up at 150% from being shieldgrabbed once, I'm not talking about the walking chaingrab...I'm talking about the stupid stand in place chaingrab. It really doesn't matter if DDD can be combo'd it really doesn't matter if he is big and slow...it only takes one grab to **** up your day

 

[DanGR]

I'm not trying to be a troll, but are you going to update the OP and rate each matchup you've gone through? It'd be easier for us to follow the preceding weeks. Just wondering, cuz I'd like to see where y'all are going with this.

 

[???????]

Meta Knight is definitely a tough match-up and is clearly in Meta Knight's favor, but Mario isn't too horribly out-ranged by Meta Knight it's just that he's so much faster; Meta Knight's quick attacks, coupled with a disjointed hitbox make him a very difficult opponent to face. The only reasons why Mario the match-up isn't completely in Meta Knight's favor is due to his weight, projectiles, and the fact that Meta Knight has low horizontal air movement; Mario can hold his own against Meta Knight at keep him at bay, but I don't really think I could ever really see this match-up as neutral. Like I stated before, Mario isn't at a terrible disadvantage to Meta Knight but he is clearly at a disadvantage of some sort.

*Meta Knight has his vicissitude, don’t be too intimidated by him*

*King DeDeDe is definitely a problem match-up with his infinite*

*I'm not sure whether Boss is updating this thread or not, but we have my thread as backup in reserve*

 

[Matador]

It's hard to argue between matchups when one has an infinite and the other doesnt. Not much you can say about it. I admit, I'm biased in MK's favor of his being the harder matchup because I have never been caught in a ddd infinite before, and I fight a variety of good MKs. I think that we can agree that, besides ddd, MK is his most difficult matchup?

 

[???????]

I'm not sure, Mr. Game & Watch is a pretty tough match-up too.

 

[Matador]

MK's more difficult imo due to pressure and edgeguarding. G&W's priority and spacing are what make that matchup difficult; his defensive game makes any approach difficult. MK can be more aggressive with his aerials and B attacks because he's less vulnerable to ending lag punishment. Mario and G&W also can KO each other at about the same percentages, while MK can gimp at every point you're off the stage. But, again, I don't fight as many good G&Ws as MKs.

 

[???????]

Well, Mr. Game & Watch truly outprioritizes Mario's aerials, which badly damages Mario's air game, also Mr. Game & Watch doesn't have the same problem with horizontal air movement that Meta Knight does.

*Mr. Game & Watch’s air game seems to just completely outclass Mario’s, even more so than Meta Knight’s*

 

[Matador]

How do you figure? Both G&W and MK kill Mario in priority and range, and both are terrible for his air game. The only difference is that MK's are better for approach, and G&W's are vulnerable to ending lag punishment.

 

[Ranjiz]

I prefer fighting against Mr Game and Watch than MetaKnight! I've gained too much confidence as how to beat Mr Game and Watch now because i know how to approach and more. use fireball when close enough to interrupt his move. when u predict that he will use chair to absorb your fireball and you make it looks like ur going to use fireball, thats when u can rack up some damage. he's also lightweight so up smash is your reliable move.

 

[???????]

How do you figure? Both G&W and MK kill Mario in priority and range, and both are terrible for his air game. The only difference is that MK's are better for approach, and G&W's are vulnerable to ending lag punishment.

Actually that's a good point, Meta Knight's moves are less punishable than Mr. Game & Watch's; Meta Knight can approach safer than Mr. Game & Watch can since he has less aerial lag to worry about and more options than Mr. Game & Watch (I can still see both match-ups being very difficult though).

*Mr. Game & Watch being even lighter than Meta Knight is a good point too*

 

[Kidlat]

I can't do jack to Olimar >_>

 

[Matador]

Actually that's a good point, Meta Knight's moves are less punishable than Mr. Game & Watch's; Meta Knight can approach safer than Mr. Game & Watch can since he has less aerial lag to worry about and more options than Mr. Game & Watch (I can still see both match-ups being very difficult though).

*Mr. Game & Watch being even lighter than Meta Knight is a good point too*

Doesn't make a difference for poor mario tho. Both are terrible matchups for pretty much the same reasons.

Edit: I don't think I've ever fought an olimar before. I secondary him, so the only problems I really see with him is his kill potential and grab range. Pikmin can be caped when thrown, and don't much outrange or outprioritize mario. Olimar's ridiculously easy for mario to edgeguard due to infinite cape ledge stall and fludd, and he's light. I'm sure someone else has more to offer on his week's discussion tho.

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

Lets see...Game and Watch

+ Lightweight
- Disjointed as ****
- Bucket kills at 100%
- Turtle Shield Poke
- Difficult to approach

hmmm there has to be more positives than that.....I guess not....hmmmmm

I can't do jack to Olimar >_>

Just space yourself...once you figure out the spacing the match is a little more bearable
----

BOSS.....update the original post or I'm gunna have to make a new thread for all this stuff

 

[boss8]

what do u mean monk???

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

sure discussion is fine but if someone new comes to look at the thread they probably won't want to sift through pages of text to find what they need

it's a convenience issue...and I'm an *******

 

[A2ZOMG]

Okay, here is how I think you deal with G&W if you want ANY chance of winning.

If he B-airs you, take the hit, and then you MUST SDI Up and towards him (I await to see Boss put this to good use. ). This will enable you avoid some of the hits of the B-air and let you close distance between him so you can get essential free attacks on him. This will not work as well if he spaces his B-air at the tip wisely, or if he's hitting your shield.

Also Fireballs are worthless here since he will either hit through them or Bucket them. FLUDD has way fewer applications in this matchup compared to others (even against MK, you can FLUDD his tornado to send him up and make him vulnerable).

Also cape wisely in hopes that will get you free attacks. Just don't cape his D-smash or U-smash because that will probably hurt. =/

Also, don't fight him on the ground unless you're goind for a running U-smash to kill him since his ground game is much better than yours.

MK is almost as bad a matchup as G&W, but at least you can spam fireballs, and FLUDD has a few more uses. G&W is also worse because IMO he kills you earlier due to being way stronger and he has options to kill you not just horizontally but vertically, whereas MK is more about killing horizontally (and yeah, he is really good at that too).

 

[Matador]

I agree with all of the above on Game and Watch. I do believe, however, that his attacks are more much predictable and easier to defend against than MK. His approach game and edgeguarding are worse than MK as well. Game and Watch his lag punishable moves as well, MK pretty much doesn't.

 

[Hagar]

I would have to side on Metaknight being slightly easier for mario than GW.

 

[boss8]

Review:

pros:

u have fludd and cape to gimp his B-up...

you are heavier then GaW making you hard for him to kill.

he is the perfect weight to combo on a low percents Fsmash and Usmash usually kill around 80 to 90 %

he can rack up damage against u but he doesn't have a killing move

cons:

cause u are heavy his Bair ***** you..

he can juggle u with Nuetrual air and u air....

he has judgement.....also can bucket fireballs killing u around 40% >_>

his b-up can gimp u if u edge stall.....

in conclusion:

this is a very back and forth matchup if a GaW player wants to be gay and Bair the whole match it's ok cause u have your out of shield game which is greater then his......he has more lag then u do.......use that to your advantage...if u see your opponent GaW has 80 or 90% spam fireballs....and he will attempt to catch them in his bucket leaving him open due to tramendous bucket lagg......i would rate this match a 4 outta 5.......

 

[Matador]

Review:

pros:

u have fludd and cape to gimp his B-up...

you are heavier then GaW making you hard for him to kill.

he is the perfect weight to combo on a low percents Fsmash and Usmash usually kill around 80 to 90 %

he can rack up damage against u but he doesn't have a killing move

cons:

cause u are heavy his Bair ***** you..

he can juggle u with Nuetrual air and u air....

he has judgement.....also can bucket fireballs killing u around 40% >_>

his b-up can gimp u if u edge stall.....

in conclusion:

this is a very back and forth matchup if a GaW player wants to be gay and Bair the whole match it's ok cause u have your out of shield game which is greater then his......he has more lag then u do.......use that to your advantage...if u see your opponent GaW has 80 or 90% spam fireballs....and he will attempt to catch them in his bucket leaving him open due to tramendous bucket lagg......i would rate this match a 4 outta 5.......

All of Game and Watch's smashes kill you at 100%.

 

[boss8]

All of Game and Watch's smashes kill you at 100%.

yea but he has no intention of pulling them off unless you play really offensively....

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

Review:

pros:

u have fludd and cape to gimp his B-up...

you are heavier then GaW making you hard for him to kill.

he is the perfect weight to combo on a low percents Fsmash and Usmash usually kill around 80 to 90 %

he can rack up damage against u but he doesn't have a killing move

cons:

cause u are heavy his Bair ***** you..

he can juggle u with Nuetrual air and u air....

he has judgement.....also can bucket fireballs killing u around 40% >_>

his b-up can gimp u if u edge stall.....

Auto sweetspot makes caping him pretty hard and I wouldn't count on fludd to put him out of range

he can still kill pretty easily...not as easily as you kill him but still pretty easily

...no killing moves....what are you talking about... Fsmash, Dsmash, Usmash, Dtilt might be able to, Fair probably around higher %. that's quite a few powerful moves

Boss playing offensively might work on some people but G&W out prioritizes on just about every move sure his smashes have alot of start up lag but in the end all it takes is one and you're pretty ****ed

 

[The Master of Mario]

-Metaknight has more priority and about the same horizontal range. Metaknight has better vertical range.

-Metaknight's aerials can be punished if shielded into a SH-Dair or U-smash.
-D-tilt and D-angled f-tilt have enough range and speed to stop Metaknight from attacking with d-smash.
-Ducking keeps Mario to low for Metaknight's U-smash.
-FF B-air to up-smash or turn around down-smash is fast does good damage.
-dtilt and d-angled ftilt are good at reaching under shields with proper spacing.
-Charging f-smash moves Mario slightly away so it could be used to dodge and counter strike.
-Fireballs can prevent Metaknight from jumping in recovery and cape also gives Metaknight trouble.
-Be aware that Metaknight's Special moves all leave him vulnernable in the air. Fully charged Fludd and cape can hinder them.
-Fireballs can slow metaknight's dashes and side special.
The match-up is difficult but not the same as Marth was in Melee.

 

[A2ZOMG]

yea but he has no intention of pulling them off unless you play really offensively....

Lol, try punishing G&W's smashes. They have way too many good IASA frames.

He can spam smashes FASTER than Mario. And they all have gigantic range and the F-smash in particular has a hitbox that lasts forever.

Oh yeah, and try not to go above G&W. His U-air stalling is the gayest technique in the game right along with MK's out of shield options and Snake's grenade game, and actually counts towards diminishing returns.

 

[Matador]

Lol, try punishing G&W's smashes. They have way too many good IASA frames.

He can spam smashes FASTER than Mario. And they all have gigantic range and the F-smash in particular has a hitbox that lasts forever.

Oh yeah, and try not to go above G&W. His U-air stalling is the gayest technique in the game, and actually counts towards diminishing returns.

Yeah, I read your thread on that. Epic for G&W mains, sucks for us tho. Just wanted to add that his Dsmash is practically instant as well.

 

[boss8]

moving on to marth....

 

[Matador]

vs Marth

+Easy to edgeguard
+Fsmash competes with the range of his sword
+Vulnerable to KO at lower percents (110%-120%)
+Projectiles for safer approach and campy game.
-Outranges you on most attacks
-SH Fairs are hard to punish as a recovery
-Racks up damage easily on Mario
-Quick kills with tippers

I'm not sure about priority in this matchup, but I imagine Marth has the edge. That's pretty much all I know on the matchup, not even sure if it's completely accurate. 2nd opinion appreciated.

 

[boss8]

vs marth come on peoples....need more opinoions bump...thanks matador..

 

[smashbro29]

well for the most part he has the advantage.

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

I don't know the Marth match-u[ that well....I assume it's the same thing as it was in melee...except not as hard