Match up Export - ZZS

[CaLibUr_1337]

Ok so I'm trying to revive discussion about matchups so we can colour in more ties :D


I'll start off my saying that suit pieces are gay and that you really have to camp and wait until they are off stage then approach her.

In this matchup I think pressure is important. If you play too defensively then you will get outspaced by side B. I'm new to this matchup. I try to approach with Bair but I normally get punished for it so I save it until she is already in the air.

She can also gimp us easily if we recover too low. If you do recover low you must make sure you snap onto the ledge without exposing your body above it or else D-smash will hit you and it's gg. Her Up-air juggles us until 70% or something around there although with appropiate DI we can escape the juggle and land with a bair and jump away to avoid most follow ups

It's harder then it looks to gimp zamus but we can edge guard her fairly effectively. just don't Up B stall or she'll grab the ledge and we can't knock her off.

Anyways what do you guys think of the matchup? I know previously it was 55-45 to us but I think it's the other way around.

Discuss

 

[Ripple]

don't air dodge. don't grab after d-smash. don't approach her when she has armor pieces. don't ledge camp. don't jump.

invincicopter all day

 

[i1337]

60-40 ZSS in my opinion

From my experience, ftilt, dtilt, fsmash, and grounded up b are very useful for this matchup. But then again they are in most matchups

 

[ph00tbag]

Who is Zamus?

 

[Neon!]

hate this matchup, dont get hit by anything especially dash attack at low percent. Dash attack>dash attack> dash attack> dsmash> footstool = near guaranteed death

 

[DtJ S2n]

Agreed with everything Ripple said.

Tilts are good. Giant punch is really good. Just take it slow. Something nice about this match-up is that we get a lot of free time to just charge punches while in a neutral position. No numbers, I'm pretty neutral about this match-up.

Apparently the d-throw > d-throw at 0% or w/e is a real thing so that's cool, though I don't know how you're getting a grab at 0%.

ZSS is pretty good on stages, not sure where to CP. Yoshi's is probably our best bet in general, don't know what I'd pick if it's banned though.

 

[CaLibUr_1337]

I wish there were some vids XD I feel like it's in zamus's favour but this is coming from someone with little experience with the matchup.

I agree with Yoshi's. I'd probs cp to frigate but other than that I'd stick to neutrals.

 

[DtJ S2n]

Old, but still good matches.

Will vs PatG 1 2 3

 

[CaLibUr_1337]

I think those should be added to the video thread since we don't have any other vs zamus vids up there.

From watching those vids I learned the following:

Will *****
Frigate is probably more neutral for both characters
Never approach zamus while she has suit pieces
Don't land with Bair unless you buffer a roll behind her afterward (and then you can punish her instead:D )
Bair lots when she has been popped up into the air
Our entire moveset can clank with her side B (except ground pound)

I'd say 55-45 samus with suit pieces and 50-50 when they are gone. You can use her suit pieces against her but I wouldn't try it if there is more than 2 on the stage. Once I threw one at her while she grabbed the ledge with up B. Good times.

 

[CaLibUr_1337]

So I can assume everyone agrees? If so is there anyone who can add it to the ties? :D

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Lol you guys are wrong. It is probably 60:40 or 65:35 in ZSS's favor.

DK has a REALLY difficult time getting in, while ZSS doesn't. Her plasma whip (side b) outranges everything we have. If we try to get inside that attack, we are now in D-smash range. D-smash is ridiculous...it is frame even on normal shield, so she can D-smash jab us if we try to drop our shield to do anything. We can grab her on P-shield, but that is about it.

You have to be extremely careful when you recover. You can't go too low or she can dair suicide spike (If she is up a stock). If you go too high while still going for the ledge, she can D-smash footstool you...which is insta-death if you don't have a DJ. If you recover high, she can just get under you and uair you, or just bair you back out.

Landing against ZSS is possibly the worst thing about this MU. She has options that cover everything. If you try to throw out a fair or dair, she can just dash under you and charge a D-smash on the ground, or uair you after the attack comes out and you are reset in the same situation. That's what is terrible...she puts you in the same situation over and over and over again...it is frustrating.

 

[CaLibUr_1337]

You've given us good reason to re-think the ratio but I wouldn't say we've mentioned anything that is incorrect during disscussion. Out of curiosity do you play DK or zamus yourself ESAM?

 

[infiniteV115]

Pretty sure the DAL --> footstool doesn't work (somebody mentioned it), you can probably upB before the footstool comes out.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I play DK. The ZSS I play is Nick Riddle. Although I main Pikachu, my DK knowledge is extremely good.

Also, you can't do anything in between D-smash Footstool...you are in stun.

 

[Ripple]

I play DK. The ZSS I play is Nick Riddle. Although I main Pikachu, my DK knowledge is extremely good.
.

sorry to be that guy esam but I've seen how you play DK and it isn't impressive or up to date with how you should play DK. you play him like late '08

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I no no any better I want my vids of last tournament to be out soon so you guys can critique them. I beat Shaky and MVD with him.

Also, as a point of reference, Nick Riddle usually destroys Will in friendlies.

 

[Ripple]

ness is free...

friendlies are dumb, I always try in them though. it feels insulting not to.

 

[DtJ S2n]

So I made this awesome write-up about my opinion on this after thinking about it and how I don't think it's that bad and only like -1 but then I went back a page to see what people had written and I lost it like an idiot. Less than awesome write-up made in 5 minutes .

Approaching isn't as bad as you make it out to be and Side-b is really not the problem, we can just walk into it and shield then we're in our optimal range. If it's grounded we can just throw and f-tilt and either win or clank it.

ZSS is a lot worse at approaching in this match-up than us, actually. F-tilt is stupidly good here, and she has no business jumping at us. So we get to make her run around on the ground or walk at us, and we have down-b, d-tilt, and hopefully giant punch to keep her out. Problem being that she normally doesn't have to approach.

Landing is really difficult vs ZSS. We just have to make a good read to get down but it's still annoying. D-air and f-air are really bad for this against anyone, don't do it. Just drop a b-air down there, or up-b ontop of them and go to a platform/ledge, or side-b them. A lot of ZSSs like to d-smash/grab at landings, especially ours. And side-b will ruin them if they get predictable with it. If you have a charged giant punch, that's basically a free landing if you're okay with losing your punch.

I've actually never had the problem with recovering, maybe the ZSSes around here don't know about something. But DK's pretty quick about getting back to the edge and has good invincibility on his up-b and auto-grab range. Really a bigger problem is getting off the ledge vs ZSS. That's a real pain, but ledge stall is good as always. Wait for the smashville platform to come your way or something, going to that platform is a great option.

Her d-smash is really annoying to shield since our shield sucks and our toes tend to stick out(lol), but it's also frame 20 and our tilts are frame "a lot faster than that". We really just have to keep pressure on her so she can't safely do it.

 

[CaLibUr_1337]

^ This is what I wanna see lol