Match up Export - Marth

[wwwilliam0024]

OK people get your lazy ***** up and lets start to discuss! If you dont want to, i really really dont give a ****. The idea is to discuss.

MARTH​

I decided Marth cause its a common MU and im very experienced with it, so lets start, what do we have...

Match up is 50 - 50 even

Match up Mentallity (from DK cheat sheet)

- Don't gimp, but ledge pressure is ****.
- Don't let him get too close on the ground.
- Stay away from ledges unless you're being juggled, then try to get to a ledge to escape.
- Bair beats his Fair; if the Marth knows this, watch out for his Counter.
- He can counter your Up B, and he can also Dair you out of it if he's a keener, be alert! If you don't mix up your recover, you'll get wrecked.
- Dolphin Slash (Up B) has invincibility frames at the beginning, also watch out for it OOS if he blocks an attack. If he wiffs, you should be able to punish it.
- Shield grab Dancing Blade (Forward B) after the 3rd hit.


-Fighting Marth-

TIPS

(i will now be giving you tips from my personal experience)

1- the match up is even and could possibly go to DKs favor, since DK can live as twice as much as marth.

2- Be ready for spaced Fairs and Nairs from marths side, your Bair is fast and outranges marths Fair, so be ready.

3- Keep marth away from you, once hes close his preassure is to much for us, he can shield our tilts to Side B, and to tilts. Try using your Spaced Bairs and Spaced tilts as safe as possible, and Unpredictably!

4- Try not to get juggled in the air, for DK is predictable when falling, try falling with an attack from the air, it would be much better to get grabbed by marth than getting hit with any of his smashes, if close to the edge try to fall to it and grab. You could also fall and Side B infront of him, most people dont expect this and end up burried, and if they happen to have a low shield, it will break.

5- You must always have your punch ready, it is by DEMAND you have ur punch. Marth is very easy to predict and thanks to those SA frames, we can punch him by SA any attack from him, even UP B! DK also applies large large Ledge game when marth is trying to get back up from the Edge. he has Few options, we can punch almost anything when he tries to get back up. You can also 9 wind mindgame him for VERY EARLY KILLS. (55%+)

6- Last but not least recovering, vary your recovery, he can Dair you easily, and it doesnt really matter how much damage you have, you just wont get back... Try getting back from above and cancel your UpB with the platforms available! be unpredictable!! :D


Dare to quote anything!! Ill be waiting.

 

[ook]

He can up-b OoS your up-b. So unfortunately, you can't really do running up-b into his shield like you can other characters.

 

[Jebu-95]

True dat^ Too bad nobody who actually knows how to play Marth plays him here. Those who I've played are mostly these "Fair-Fair-Nair-Fsmash" Marths.
I think this MU is a bit like playing against GW. Just space the best you can and dont let him get inside your tilts, as said before.

 

[wwwilliam0024]

Running + UpB is pretty useless i think, i dont really use it or rely much on it.

So discard grounded UP Bs in the MU, unless you cant find any other solution to your situation.

 

[DtJ S2n]

Be a little nicer with the intro next time lol. Though it is nice to see some serious business around here.

Marth wins this by getting in our face, not by spacing. I wish Marth would just flutter around his f-air range so that I could f-tilt him in the face all day. Grabs and Side-b is a nightmare, don't ever let him close enough to do it. If possible, I'd play based on reaction in this match-up.

Marth is going to want to bait bad f-tilts or bad b-airs so that he has the chance to get in, or worse, you bring yourself in. Don't b-air unless he's being stupid and you're positive it'll connect, you don't want to put yourself in the air and near Marth. F-tilt is really good for swatting him down, just don't get predictable with it. He'll be using f-air, as always, to get you to make a mistake. Changing your spacing simply by walking(either away or towards) when he goes airborne can throw him off and make him open to an easy punish (e.g. he misspaces a f-air.)

Grabs are stupidly important in this match-up, for both sides. If he lands one, you're taking a lot of damage from the following juggle/techchase/whatev. Getting a grab on Marth is the most plausible way of landing a big hit on him, and can really change the momentum of the match.

As far as counterpicks go, I hate Marth. Yoshi's is good as always. I've always done well with Lylat in this match-up (lol everyone bans Yoshi's.) I don't think Marth likes slopes, they make him approaching us more difficult and there are platforms/angled terrain we can escape juggles to. Don't go there if you don't practice it (and if you don't practice it, go do it!) I've always been too scared to take him to brinstar tbh. I don't want him that close to me. I wouldn't take him anywhere with hazards, I think that it's easier for him to move us into them mid-juggle than it is for us. Not to mention we already have a lot of killpower...

I've never had trouble with him on BF, and that's where he usually CPs. Tbh, I'd be more afraid of FD. There's just no where to land and he's soooo fast. Always have to go to the ledge to reliably stop getting juggled, and that presents it's own problems... I'd say ban based on what Marth you're facing =/. Everyone has their own preferences I guess.

Oh if the main point didn't come across: stay grounded, don't get grabbed.

 

[Chaosgriffin]

if he bans yoshis, pick picto, we can also do the roflcopter on that stage.

If he is spacing fair, walk away f-smash beats that.

As far as gimps go, cargo throw him off the stage, not stage spike but away from stage, then use an offensive up b to make him lose his jump and he pretty much dies after that.

Do not land near marth or you will either get grabbed or f-smashed, unless of course you predict that, then go ahead and punch him in the face.

One problem with spacing in this mu, is if you (DK) misspace an attack its a possible tipper, so you have to be careful.

 

[wwwilliam0024]

Heres a trick i use, since the Marth player is good and is expecting the obvious, (Ftilt-Bairs) i some times play around changing my approach, for example.

> Instead of spacing Ftilt, i slowly walk torwards him, he shields waiting for the Tilt and i grab him instead.

> I also do short hops torward him, he waits for a Bair and shield, i simply dodge to the ground and grab again.

The moment you must take advantage of is when marth is of stage and in the edge.

It is incredibly easy to punish him for almost any thing, if he rolls, just Dsmash, if he attacks, shield and throw out again, if he does anything you just have to keep your distance and attack.
I specially love it when they come up with counters, simply wait for the counter frames to end and 9 WIND THEIR ***!! or simply Africa punch em :3

But you must react to marths movement, KNOW when he rises, rolls, attack, etc.

 

[Cable]

React to Marth's f-air's with your bair it beats it and also use your f-tilts against him.
Keep that punch charged Marth fears it and if Marth is 80% and ^ try to catch a d-smash he is most likely going to die.
I guess those are like the main things there is more tho but I like to keep that in mind. Ohhh and I think DK's down B isnt so good because Marth is always in the air

 

[Neon!]

fairing marths will get destroyed by dk, bair obviously beats it but ground up-b works well when he is trying to land with fair. ftilt is great for spacing and punch should always be fully charged, he can actually gimp us prety well and his counter can be hard to get past. I've played this matchup a lot but not with any good marths. Only one I've played is Havok and it was a friendly Probably our best top tier matchup though.

 

[wwwilliam0024]

I play everyday with the bst marth here, and he says Patience is Key to winning vs DK.

A good Marth wont just Camp or Fair or do anything without knowing the consequences, dont just think spacing Ftilts and Bairs will get you the win, all of these can be punished, its a case of ho ever messes up first, so be ready with your punch, DONT stay still, BUT dont go all Bairy and ****.. wait for the moment, its better to be 100% safe.

Also Watch out for Chain grab juggling and ****, for example: Marth -> Fthrow > Nair > fair.

You can avoid it by Up B and landing on platforms with the Autocancel ^_^

 

[Chaosgriffin]

oh and marth cannot cg dk, if he does for it, just up-b. and dont pick ps1 as a counterpick.

 

[wwwilliam0024]

Yoshis, Battlefield, Delfino, lylat, Rainbow cruise

I like taking marths there alot... Smashville anyone?

 

[crifer]

I played Leon (Top player in europe) in tournament and took one game off him, even though he is a much better player... the key to win is to mess up his spacing by dashing or walking back and forward.
Look out if the marth likes to fullhop his fair, if he does -> counter with uair, usmash.
Don´t ever make the first move, if you blindly throw out a bair you will get punished. wait for his fair and punish it.
Watch out for his shield pressure, the key to win for marth is shield pressure + neutralB, but the most marth´s don´t realize that. (I hope they don´t read this :O).
I thin it´s easily 60:40 for DK.

 

[wwwilliam0024]

50-50.

DK has no large advantage yet.

Both players rely on the error of the opponent and your patience capacity.

 

[Neon!]

It's definitly even, marth can juggle and edgeguard Dk well but Dk has more range and kills better/lives longer. Also aggressive marth > defensive in this matchup imo.

 

[wwwilliam0024]

Well aggresive and smart, cause you just cant go all aggresive on DK, he can go aggresive after he nails the First hit, which is the hard part for DK, getting back on balance and avoid being juggled.

Im going to try to get some matches with the Marth player here, so you guys can check it out.

 

[Attila the Hun]

Our (N.S.') stage list is weird, but other than the obvious Japes, we have Mansion which is too fun, I'm pretty sure you guys have Brinstar, which I play our best Marth on frequently, and Norfair, because Bair being able to reach all over platforms is too good.

Just my thoughts.

Battlefield is prolly my favorite neutral 'cuz even though Marth likes platforms, my DK likes 'em, too.

 

[wwwilliam0024]

Indeed i never really complain about any stage in the DK vs Marth MU, cause even though some stages are annoying, Marth never really gets a Huge advantage.

Here we never actually Use Luigis mansion, is that stage even legal? i never noticed.

 

[DtJ S2n]

Luigi's is like never legal, over here. Even in the midwest. Rewind back to summer of '09 and it was, though!

Honestly, the worst experience I've ever had fighting a Marth was on Final Destination. You just get u-thrown after u-thrown after u-thrown... you more or less have to go to the ledge. Sure, Marth likes platforms. But I think we like them more.

 

[Chaosgriffin]

yeah, the only good part about final d for DK imo is that it is so huge, and we can di and survive there for a long time

 

[wwwilliam0024]

Either way after DI'ing and coming back on the stage we will get hit by another attack, making the situation worst and leading to the same thing over and over.

Get Smashed > DI and survive > Free fall > Get Smashed > Repeat till death.

But yeah its always good to survive.

 

[Chaosgriffin]

well yeah, if you have to do upb you stale one of their kill moves. but you dont always have to do up-b, you can do b-reverse side b bucket brake, and it works only a tad bit slower.

 

[wwwilliam0024]

I didnt know SideB served as a momentum canceling move. Sweet now i have more things to try out.

 

[Chaosgriffin]

yeah, here is a vid i made about it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITEU12Sb__U

 

[wwwilliam0024]

Sweeet, if we could pull that off every time we wouldnt have to suffer free fall punishes, ima start practicing that as soon as i get back from Boston

 

[Te-Jay]

Here in NFLD, theres only 1 or 2 marth players anyway. But spacing and baiting is the way to win this. Get the momentum and its yours.

 

[DKwill]

I play this matchup a lot, it's probably one of my favorite ones =)

Real quickly off the top of my head, watch out for openings that Marth can up-b OoS like ook said. Also, our down b is only good on landings if you can't catch up to him in time. If you down b too close to him and are very close to his shield for whatever reason, LET GO OF DOWN. I believe you can still ground pound as long as you are mashing b. If you are still holding down, when he up-b's you out of shield, you'll have terrible DI xD If anything in that situation, be one step ahead and DI up and in lol.

Same goes for when you are spacing d-tilt. Normally it is very good on characters behind their shields, but watch out bc he can still reverse up-b out of shield and if you are still buffering d-tilts, well, you'll probably die if you were at high percent =P

 

[Ripple]

never forget that phantom lag on up-b.

he will always have to use an aerial as he's landing. so if he ledge jumps just wait for him to fall a little bit and just d-smash or up-smash

 

[DKwill]

Yeah, DK can actually running up smash a Marth in standing position. That's a pretty nasty punish lol.

Also, in general, n-air has very limited uses in this matchup. Offstage it's very good still for gimping purposes, but in general I guess mixing in a n-air away from Marth is ok to throw off his spacing... otherwise b-air is always the better option. Marth outranges the crap out of our n-air with up-air/f-air =x

Falling up air is still a fairly good way of landing if a Marth is not giving you breathing room since it is very fast.

 

[Cable]

Yeah, DK can actually running up smash a Marth in standing position. That's a pretty nasty punish lol.

I usually do running up-smash when I perfect shield Marth's f-smash it gives you enough time to do it. DK kills real early

 

[wwwilliam0024]

Its still hard enough. I use more Usmash when reading marth on the platforms, if hes silly enough to Roll or dodge on the Platform, then i get a free Usmash ^_^