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[/COLLAPSE]I'm lazy so I'm gonna quote myself from over a year ago lawlYou know, considering that this is our hardest MU, I think it does deserve its own thread. Our MU thread is not very lively anyway, and the Falco discussion there took place quite a while ago.
I guess I'll start since I have a bit of experience with Falco. There are a lot of Falcos in my region (none are mains though, lol) and they all use Falco against me because I destroy their mains, barring 1 or 2 people.
Suitpieces:
You have to be careful with these, seeing how Falco has a reflector. However, the thing that sets Falco's reflector apart from most others is that it doesn't just surround his body, it sticks out quite far in front of him. This means that if you throw a suit-piece up/down, he can safely reflect it while it's bouncing and pick it up, using it against you. In general, you'll have to be very careful with your item-play and may want to consider throwing off 1, 2 or even all 3 of your items (I usually don't but that's just me). However, the safety of Falco's reflector will tempt the opponent to use it, and the animation is quite long, so you may want to bait this. A mix-up that I like is to stay JUST out of the range of his reflector, throw your suitpiece up/down, then grab him during the ending lag of his reflector and throw him into the suitpiece if he doesn't mash out quickly enough. In other words, if you see him use his reflector and he hasn't reflected an item piece at you, you can punish with a grab, side-B, maybe dsmash, etc.
Lasers:
Obviously a big part of Falco's game, these things come out fairly quickly and force you to approach. Considering how quickly they come out combined with the fact that they autocancel, it will be very hard for you to use your lasers and side-B, as both of these have quite a bit of startup lag and you will likely be hit by a laser before the attack even comes out. However, when timed correctly, you might be able to get your opponent to jump/land into a side-B, depending on whether you're side-Bing in the air or on the ground. Charging lasers is not recommended, as again, Falco's lasers not only come out faster but will also autocancel, so he can SHDL and reflect as soon as he hits the ground.
Close-range:
Falco arguably has one of the best close range games in the entire cast and he beats you here with his quick grab and great jab. If Falco grabs you at 0, he can CG you up to ~35 (I think) then follow-up with a dair. Even if he gets you offstage with the dair, you shouldn't be dying unless you're recovering terribly (and you can always just SDI the dair back onstage), so don't worry too much. Because of how fast his grab is, you'll have to be careful on shield or else you'll just get shieldgrabbed. If utilt or dash attack get shielded, they're going to get shieldgrabbed, so be careful. Dtilt is quick and won't get shieldgrabbed if you space it well, but if un-spaced you will be shieldgrabbed again. I don't know what the frame (dis)advantage is for uncharged dsmash on shield, but charged dsmash on shield is a 0 frame (dis)advantage, so buffer a jab out of it (our jab is frame 1, his grab is frame 6). If he shields your side-b, buffer a jab or dtilt out of it and you should be fine.
*If Falco does not buffer his CG properly, we can down-b out of it. If you choose to hold down and spam B while he's CGing, PAY ATTENTION! If he screws up and (or intentionally) drops the grab, and you down-B out of it, if you press B again you will just do the kick and Falco can punish your landing with whatever he likes (another grab to continue the CG, maybe usmash)
Utilt is great in this MU, as it puts Falco above us (right where we want him). Unfortunately, since utilt has so much ending lag, if we hit Falco with a utilt at very low percents (up to I think 15ish, don't know the exact numbers), he will be able to hit us with a dair before we can shield it. However, some Falcos will instinctively dair when you get them right above you, so if you get him with a utilt, shield immediately (shielding his dair), and utilt again. They usually learn after the 2nd utilt. Utilt is a great out of shield option in general (and has pissed off many of my opponents) but be weary of its ending lag, as Falco will be able to punish however he likes if he shields it (I believe utilt is -44 on shield LOL). If Falco is jabbing you, your best option is probably to SDI behind him and utilt.
Dtilt, however (assuming it is spaced) is very safe and you will be using it a lot. You don't have to worry about Falco dairing you out of your dtilt, but at lower percents you can still dtilt--> shield --> utilt. Dtilt is a godsend; you can follow up with (don't think any of these are true combos but you're likely to land them if you buffer them) uair, fair or running usmash. Something else that works quite a bit (at lower percents) is dtilt --> charged dsmash, since people tend to airdodge once you hit them with dtilt (they usually expect a uair). Dtilt is also great for shield-pressuring.
Dsmash, as always, is great. However, it has quite a bit of start-up lag, so you'll have to space this in order for it to be used safely. If we dsmash Falco at 0%, we can chain the dsmashes til ~44% if he DIs properly, and like ~85% if he doesn't. This is REALLY tempting, but control yourself; if you just go around spamming dsmash, you're just going to get grabbed cged by Falco (a free 40% for him), and then he's going to laser camp. You'll have to be as careful with dsmash as always. Remember, if Falco is shielding, charge the dsmash and buffer a jab/dtilt out of it.
Ftilt has never been very useful to me. I only use it in situations where nothing else will hit.
Falco's tilts aren't that great, your dtilt is better than them. Falco's utilt is similar to ours though, so watch out for that.
If we try to land our entire jab combo on Falco, he will be able to shield (and punish) the 3rd hit, so NEVER do the entire combo (unless Falco is in the air). Usually the best thing to do is Jab1 --> dtilt, but you can also mix it up with run away pivot grab, run away pivot side-b, forward roll, or utilt if he's close enough. I don't use Jab1 very often though, although I suppose it's good for keeping your other moves a tiny bit fresher.
If you land a dash attack on Falco, always utilt/dtilt right after. The only exception is when he is in DAL (dash attack lock) percents, in which case you just continue the lock and finish with a tilt. Again, be careful, he can shield and punish dash attack (only the first if it's DAL, lol)
Mid-range:
Same as above for dsmash. If on shield, charge it and follow up with buffered jab/dtilt. Always space it.
Like I mentioned with paralyzers, they come out slow and can be reflected, so you'll have to be careful with them. Not to mention that Falco's reflector sticks out far in front, so if he reflects, the reflector will be right in your face, meaning you won't be able to shield the reflected paralyzer. A good way to use paralyzers (I picked this up from Dakpo) is to run away and pivot the paralyzer. Paralyzers also help at landing grabs.
Our side-b barely outranges his reflector, so again you're going to have to space this if you want it to be safe. Side-b is a great move as it does a lot of damage and can kill (don't rely on it for kills though, it's usually stale). If it doesn't kill, at least it gets him in the air (and maybe offstage!).
Like in every MU, you HAVE to be careful with grab. It's extremely punishable if missed and you should not use it often. If you miss a grab and you're at high percents, you will eat an fsmash and DIE. Again, paralyzers help at landing grabs. I believe that if you grab Falco at 0%, you can fthrow cg and get 1 regrab in (maybe more, not sure). However, most of the time, dthrow is your best option out of grab. It is just like dtilt and has the same follow-ups, so I will copy-paste them here
Uthrow does the most damage of all your throws (dthrow does 2nd most) but it has TERRIBLE ending lag, so you MAY want to use it occasionally but dthrow will be used most often.
Bthrow doesn't deal good damage and should only really be used if you desperately want your opponent offstage. That said, I've noticed that Nick Riddle likes to bthrow offstage --> side-b/up-b, and though I don't think it's guaranteed, it's an option you should consider.
If your opponent likes to sit in his shield and wait for you to hit it and shield-grab, you can mix up your approach by running behind him and pivot grabbing. Obviously at higher percents, if you get a grab, pummel to refresh your other moves.
If you're spacing dtilt well, it will become part of your mid-range game. Kudos!
Fsmash should almost never be used, as only 1 of its hitboxes is any good. That being said, use that hitbox if you get either a dsmash (to kill) or a hard read (for lulz). Fsmash never stales btw.
Far-range:
Not much to say here, other than that Falco's lasers will give you tons of trouble. You pretty much have 3 ways to get past them and close in on Falco; jump over, run and powershield, and crawl under them.
I don't like jumping over, it leaves you vulnerable as you have to keep airdodging, and now you're above him.
Running and powershielding is good, just pay attention to how close you get to him.
Crawling is good, but you have to remain moving (ZSS' crouch is too tall to avoid lasers). If Falco runs off and lasers back on, the laser WILL hit you, so be ready for that. You'll likely end up trying to dtilt once you get close with crawl. If he tries to dair you, shield and utilt.
In the air:
ZSS' air game *****. You want Falco in the air and above you at all times. Juggle him with uairs, but be careful, as Falco's dair hitbox is rather large (barely smaller than ZSS' uair). Your uair will usually be stale, so don't depend on that for killing, unless you've just been killed. Our bair is probably our most reliable kill move and you'll probably want to keep that fresh. I never use it until they're at kill percent. You can use it, but use it sparingly or else you'll have trouble killing. Fair does more damage than any of our other aerials (17%), but that's only if boths hits connect, which will only happen if you land it correctly (you have to be moving toward them and not falling when you land the first hit). Nair always does 10% (it never stales and therefore never refreshes your other moves) and the back hitbox is huge. However, it has quite a bit of ending lag and it will tie with everything that doesn't have transcendent priority. And you should never be using dair as an attack (because it has HORRIBLE landing lag)unless you get a solid read, lol. However if you're really high up you can use dair to land back on the stage, and there won't be landing lag.
Oh yeah, uair and nair autocancel. Take advantage of that.
Watch out for Falco's dair (it's a meteor smash), as it comes out VERY quickly and makes it harder for you to land uair.
His bair comes out faster than yours, and is a kill move but it's moderately strong.
His uair is a kill move, watch out for that.
SDI his nair and fair, though Falcos don't use fair often.
Your up-b is good because the top of it will meteorsmash. Also, if they airdodge your up-b, you can usually jump and uair them.
Offstage
If you're recovering properly, Falco can't really do much to you. Remember that if he edgehogs, your down-b can footstool (just hold up/any jump button and when you're close enough to them it will footstool automatically). You can also down-b footstool items. Your tether range is huge, so with both of these put together you should be fine, just make sure to DI and momentum cancel properly (of course if you momentum cancel with down-b you'll have to be a bit more careful).
Falco on the other hand, is quite vulnerable offstage. If he doesn't have a jump, dsmash --> footstool --> properly timed edgehog is a guaranteed death. If he's below the stage, he'll be recovering with his up-b, so just edgehog that.
If he recovers with side-b, you have to predict properly in order to kill him. If he's going for the edge, dsmash --> footstool --> edgehog. If he's going for right above the edge, and you have good timing, you can jab-->dsmash-->footstool-->edgehog. Otherwise, try to predict and punish his landing with a kill move/get him offstage again.
BEFORE he side-Bs and when he's high up is when Falco is most vulnerable. In this situation, use side-b, paralyzer, fair, bair and nair to their fullest potential to kill him/build up damage while he's offstage. But remember, his side-b is a meteor smash, so watch out for it. If Falco is above you offstage, you can go for an up-b meteor smash.
Oh yeah, last thing. Dsmash.
At chain percents, chain it for free damage.
When he's no longer at dsmash chain percents, dsmash twice then jump into him and get both hits of forward air (dsmash x2 + fair is %39, assuming everything is as fresh as possible)
When he's no longer at fair percents but not at kill percents, dsmash twice then use uair/nair. Uair will usually be stale and thus will usually do less damage than nair, but with uair you can follow up, so you decide.
At higher percents, you can dsmash x3 --> uair, given that your dsmash isn't too stale.
When he's at kill percents, dsmash twice then use bair. Or, you can dsmash once and use the sweetspot of forward smash (stronger than backair). Or, you can dsmash once/twice and get the 2nd hit ONLY of fair (stronger than both fsmash and bair, but you won't be able to get both hits of fair). I usually stick with bair, I've learned that timing well and it kills him at like %120 anyway.
And that's the Falco MU! I hope others will come in here and add to what I've said, I'm not the most experienced. I hope I helped, this post took me like an hour XD
Now to go study for that term test....
This is still a good write up. Back in the 2010s I believe this match up was a -3. Somehow it became a -1 though, which I'm still not sure how we made that big of a jump. If falco camps and side Bs the entire match, there is not much we can do to him.
If you can tell me a way to beat lazers to side-Bs for 8 min, then I'll be convinced of a -1. All we can do is plank :/. There is crawling, but then the situation gets reset with side-B. Stage selection is extremely important to how the ratio balances out.
This.
absolutely.
PPPP
Yea, the Zero suit mains have like a spectrum of good mainsI think it might come down to ZSS having a really big problem getting things going if Falco is playing well. However she can completely pressure him out after a good hit.
Falco is an interesting case because I think he highlights something about ZSS we don't discuss a lot: the different styles of play ZSS mains employ (like, V115 and Salem play similarly, and quik and NickRiddle have similar approaches) work better or worse in different match-ups.
Against Falco, the very fast, techy aggressive style just works better. We should be trying to keep as much pressure up as possible, because once Falco gets control, it can be very difficult to recover. Campy spacy ZSS has no place in the falco MU.
EDIT: Nick before you get sensitive I'm not saying you don't do well vs Falco
if you are like in mid range and approaching to falco he may do side-b and we answer with:
I just watched our best/2nd best zero suit get taken to game 3 by an unranked falco that doesnt know how to camp... Just think how bad it could have gone if he played the whole game like he did around 6:00
I love the way he uses fair. Ima steal thatIt's hard, we all agree.
ZSS has the most success when Falco is just never able to set it up, but she has tools that prevent him from doing it. Salem vs xzax is a pretty good set to watch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzOYF3KMA1k He gets in here, with some smart play and good reads.
Also Salem destroyed DEHF apparently, 3-stocked him in a MM
did Nick beat some of the best in year 12 or someone else in Usa?
Nick has done well this year, beating Esam (I think) and Ultimate razer. (maybe a few more)
US zss>>>> JapansIf you're excluding Europe, probably Kamemushi (or Ikki) from Japan.
Kamemushi placed 9th at the most recent tourney.
