Match-up discussion week 33: Ganondorf

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Trying to finish everything this week, here is Captain Falcon Ganondorf.
Not much discussion is needed, we camp him all day, we CG->spike him when he's not careful, aka easy mode.

Discuss.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

100/0 Falco favour.
Ganon can't win period.

Jab1/Utilt/Laser > Everything Ganon can do.

If he somehow manages to get even remotely close just side B away and do your usual thing (aka SHDL)

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Spike through upB is nasty too :D

 

[Teran]

Don't make multiple matchup discussions at the same time. >.<

The whole discussion pattern loses focus. We'll take this one at a time. When the time comes, I'll bump the next one.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Don't make multiple matchup discussions at the same time. >.<

The whole discussion pattern loses focus. We'll take this one at a time. When the time comes, I'll bump the next one.

It's not like we're unable to do 3 match-ups at the same time.

These will probably not even extend past 1 page.

I'd say 80/20 for this.

 

[Teran]

Well whatever, and just so you know Falco Ganon is like 95:5.

That 5% being lucky breaks for Ganon. I'm not joking, there is absolutely no way for poor Ganon to beat Falco, which is sad because Ganon is one of my favourite characters to play.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Well whatever, and just so you know Falco Ganon is like 95:5.

That 5% being lucky breaks for Ganon. I'm not joking, there is absolutely no way for poor Ganon to beat Falco, which is sad because Ganon is one of my favourite characters to play.

Yeah I guess it's bad if you camp all day and night :/

 

[Teran]

Yeah I guess it's bad if you camp all day and night :/

This is Brawl, this is the standard method of play to expect.

lol

 

[TP]

On neutrals, I'll agree that the matchup is unwinnable as long as the Falco is patient, for the reasons you have listed.

However, the matchup gets a lot fairer on certain counterpicks. Maybe you should just discuss that instead.

 

[Darky-Sama]

Does this match-up really need a discussion? Falco has an advantage over Ganondorf on nearly every stage besides Norfair. Ban Norfair and you've won. (Even though this was supposed to be a sarcastic post, it's pretty much true.)

When the Ganonboards discover some breakthrough that will make Ganondorf high tier, then all will be made clear. Until then, a Ganondorf user should just set the controller down, wait until the match is over and pick another character to play against Falco with.

That, or counterpick Norfair.
Ganondorf is a terror on Norfair.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

That, or counterpick Norfair.
Ganondorf is a terror on Norfair.

How can ganondorf approach Falco if Falco has the middle? Falco can shoot you everywhere from everywhere, and regain invincibility directly after.

His kill problem is fixed if you're on the higher platforms, for his moves all kill earlier and are often safer/faster then ganondorfs.

His recovery is fixed because you have 3 ledges to choose from, no more silly gimps.

Norfair ain't THAT bad :D

 

[Darky-Sama]

How can ganondorf approach Falco if Falco has the middle? Falco can shoot you everywhere from everywhere, and regain invincibility directly after.

His kill problem is fixed if you're on the higher platforms, for his moves all kill earlier and are often safer/faster then ganondorfs.

His recovery is fixed because you have 3 ledges to choose from, no more silly gimps.

Norfair ain't THAT bad :D

Ganondorf's murder choke suicide factor on Norfair where he hits the lava, survives, while people keep going down through the lava as though he was still choking them? Yeah, that's the main thing. Sorta situational though, I wouldn't count it as a MAJOR factor.

Plus, Ganondorf can use the platforms to his advantage too. He just has to play smart, wait for the physics of the stage to take effect so Falco will actually move somewhere more punishable, and then the aerial Ganon-fest begins. rofl.


Edit: Falco should still **** Ganondorf here, btw.
It's just more of a 70:30 than a 100:0. xD

 

[thexsunrosered]

Have any of you played a good Ganon, not a mediocre one, I mean like one of the maybe 20 that exist in the world ( :[ sad but true)? I main both Falco and Ganon, so I know the matchup from both sides, and I have to say that if Falco can't get the CG in and take a stock early or get in that quick 50%, this match up is a lot harder than you would think. Ganon's Buffered Dash Cancel SHAD literally leaves him vulnerable for something like 9 or 10 frames, when he lands to put up his shield and when it drops so he can jump, all the while keeping his mobility. This increased movement can be attributed to Ganons 'Demonic Step,' which is similar to Pit's except not quite as far.

An intelligent Ganon will do this the entire match if you refuse approach. Remember that Ganon is heavy and Falco WILL have a hard time killing, while Ganon only needs to get a few hits in as he can kill Falco as early as 70%ish.

Personally, I would just pick Falco against a Falco if it came down to it, but for the discussion I think this is important

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Cough dair spike through upB.

Falco can beat ganon even without the cg spike

 

[Darky-Sama]

Ganondorf isn't a pushover. He's one of my secondaries.
But the match-up just isn't something that he can win easily.

If he beats a Falco, he's either:
A.) Cheating.
B.) Stalling out the timer.
C.) On a much higher skill level than the Falco.
Meaning the Falco must be a scrub that doesn't know the metagame.

rofl.

 

[thexsunrosered]

Cough dair spike through upB.

Falco can beat ganon even without the cg spike

I know, I'm just trying to be informative. We all know the trufacts

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I know, I'm just trying to be informative. We all know the trufacts

Just saying that Falco doesn't really have a problem with killing

 

[Notra]

Well whatever, and just so you know Falco Ganon is like 95:5.

That 5% being lucky breaks for Ganon. I'm not joking, there is absolutely no way for poor Ganon to beat Falco, which is sad because Ganon is one of my favourite characters to play.

i agree, but i dont know about giving 5% for luck. since falcos metagame is (in a way...kinda....not rly, but i like to think it is) based partially off flashiness we could give ganon that 5% cause of his dair spikes. which r not too likely in this match but still i dont know ganons who would give up an opportunity to do that.

 

[Teran]

Falco could always trip, that puts him at a disadvantage. There's a lucky break example. xD

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

i agree, but i dont know about giving 5% for luck. since falcos metagame is (in a way...kinda....not rly, but i like to think it is) based partially off flashiness we could give ganon that 5% cause of his dair spikes.

I love this post!

Let's give Ganondorf 5% cause we are flashy

 

[King Funk]

I love this post!

Let's give Ganondorf 5% cause we are flashy

95-5 it is then?

 

[Teran]

Sounds perfectly reasonable. I think the Ganons have it at somewhere close to that mark too.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

95:5 is fine.

SEE TERAN, WE CAN DO 3 PERFECTLY FINE

 

[BleachigoZX]

I <3'd this discussion.

 

[Teran]

95:5 is fine.

SEE TERAN, WE CAN DO 3 PERFECTLY FINE

One at a time is more organized.
I like organization.

 

[Emperor Time]

Just shows how gay this game can get.

 

[BleachigoZX]

Ganon is too slow though, it wasn't the meta games fault. It was Sakurai's.

 

[Notra]

LOL, ganon gets 5% for flash. LOL

 

[Teran]

Let's not spam this topic now, we have the Social Thread to laugh at our "shrewd" analysis of the matchup.

 

[A~Kid/ToonethLinkage]

100 - 0 Falco

Seriously. This MU is unwinnable for Ganon. Unless the Ganon is NinjaLink. >_>

 

[Marcbri]

I'm for a 90-10 or even 95-5

we just shut him down he can't approach at all.

I remember doing something fun with ganondorf against falco, if falco is recovering with sideb ganon only needs to do downb from the stage to kill Falco xD. ofc before that Ganon needs to get falco out of the stage and that ain't happening : D

 

[mars16]

Ganandorf is to low on the tier list to be matched up with Falco.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Ganandorf is to low on the tier list to be matched up with Falco.

Are you an idiot?

Just a question to improve my opinion about you.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I have a confession to make.

Ganon owns me

 

[mars16]

Are you an idiot?

Just a question to improve my opinion about you.

No but I have an opinion about you, something you don't want to here.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

No but I have an opinion about you, something you don't want to here.

I don't care about your opinion on me over the internet, but what you posted is called spam.

Unrivaled, pure, irritating SPAM

 

[Darky-Sama]

This board is still discussing Ganon?
Wow, what's it been? 3-4 weeks?

I thought the Falcon Boards were bad. =(

Two match-ups in 7 months. Yeahyeahyeah gogogo.

 

[mars16]

Ganandorf has strong attacks with some good range and is way heavier
But he is slow and has laggy attacks and since he falls fast he can easily be chain grabbed by Falco plus he is a tall target for Falco's Bullets.
Ganancan't get a good approach to do an attack

70:38

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Why give it a 95-5 if you know that Ganon can't win at all?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Why give it a 95-5 if you know that Ganon can't win at all?

say you predict all phantasms with warlock punches and utilts.

or you score one kill by outsmarting falco, and proceed to ganoncide the rest of the stocks

or you warlock punch out of trip