Match-Up Discussion #11! Toon Link

[Remzi]

Lol, Marth should definitely be at tipper range rather than right in TLs face. People are making zair seem like the end all solution to all of TLs problems, we can deal with it.

TL's options at point blank: jab, utilt, bair, usmash, nair, spot dodge (2 frames of lag)

At tipper range, all he can really that is semi-safe is zair. Zair is not difficult to stop, and even if it lands it doesn't inflict much damage at all. It's also difficult to follow up on unless he is approaching with it or has a bomb in hand (zair>bomb>anything).

I'd much rather deal with just zair than a whole plethora of options when he is further in. And not to mention Marth's options are much more difficult to punish and inflict more damage when spaced well.


EDIT: ROFL, legendary are you really saying that you can't PS against TL a lot because you found a match from 5 months ago where I didn't PS many attacks. One match is hardly relevant, not to mention I was air dodging projectiles at that time >_>

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Lol, Marth should definitely be at tipper range rather than right in TLs face. People are making zair seem like the end all solution to all of TLs problems, we can deal with it.

TL's options at point blank: jab, utilt, bair, usmash, nair, spot dodge (2 frames of lag)

At tipper range, all he can really that is semi-safe is zair. Zair is not difficult to stop, and even if it lands it doesn't inflict much damage at all. It's also difficult to follow up on unless he is approaching with it or has a bomb in hand (zair>bomb>anything).

I'd much rather deal with just zair than a whole plethora of options when he is further in. And not to mention Marth's options are much more difficult to punish and inflict more damage when spaced well.


EDIT: ROFL, legendary are you really saying that you can't PS against TL a lot because you found a match from 5 months ago where I didn't PS many attacks. One match is hardly relevant, not to mention I was air dodging projectiles at that time >_>

I wasn't trying to hold that match against you. I just thought it was weird for you stay just PS everything TLink throws at you but in a match against Tlink you aint PS nothing. But like I also said that was in december you can be plpaying differently now.

I also think you're underestimating Tlink.

 

[Steel]

How are you not PS'ng anything? You hit shield a few frames before it hits you.

 

[Santi]

TL's options at point blank: jab, utilt, bair, usmash, nair, spot dodge (2 frames of lag)

At tipper range, all he can really that is semi-safe is zair.

None of those point blank options for Toon Link are safe at all.
Any aerial TL does close range will get eaten by Marth doing Fair,Bair, Or nair out of shield.
Any any jabs,tilts, or dodges will get eaten by swordance.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Why do people keep saying someone is underestimating blah blah blah?

We ain't here to talk anyone's character up. We ain't here to be like, " oh well despite the fact that Marth wins TL is still a really good character cuz blah blah I-don't-give-a-D*MN!"

This is match-up discussion. You look at the characters tools and you call it like you see it based on that evidence.

We aren't here to be nice to the characters. We are here to talk about the match-up. And guess what?

There ain't much to talk about. The match is straight forward.

Baiting and blah blah, that's just player dependent stuff and that's stuff you will need to adapt to as you face better players.

TL has projectiles. Marth has the air game and the ground game and just a better movelists overall.

Marth wins due to TL's limitations as a character.

/done

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Why do people keep saying someone is underestimating blah blah blah?

We ain't here to talk anyone's character up. We ain't here to be like, " oh well despite the fact that Marth wins TL is still a really good character cuz blah blah I-don't-a-D*MN!"

This is match-up discussion. You look at the characters tools and you call it like you see it based on that evidence.

We aren't here to be nice to the characters. We are here to talk about the match-up. And guess what?

There ain't much to talk about. The match is straight forward.

Baiting and blah blah, that's just player dependent stuff and that's stuff you will need to adapt to as you face better players.

TL has projectiles. Marth has the air game and the ground game and just a better movelists overall.

Marth wins due to TL's limitations as a character.

/done

If you say so.....I'm just curious how much do you know about Tlink considering you none involvement in the game. People are definitely underestimating/not aware of options that he has like zair doesn't combo into anything.....but continue with your rant. about being nice and such.

 

[Emblem Lord]

You are in the Marth boards.

And you don't know who I am or how I know this stuff?

Holy ****ing ****.

Edit: AND WE ARE FROM THE SAME STATE?!?!?!

I didn't realize it was THIS bad.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

You are in the Marth boards.

And you don't know who I am or how I know this stuff?

Holy ****ing ****.

Edit: AND WE ARE FROM THE SAME STATE?!?!?!

I didn't realize it was THIS bad.

Emblem lord big name in melee came to brawl taught pierce and steel. Developed Marths early game during the early months of brawl. You eventually sold your Wii and Brawl for SFIV that you're currently playing. That's all i know about you. Apparently you want me to take you word as gospel concerning this match up when the last time you touched brawl was in IDK how long.

 

[Emblem Lord]

So if you know then why did you make that earlier comment. Do you like having people doubt your intelligence or not taking you seriously?

Anyway, it's not hard to know what goes on in a match-up. Just don't over complicate things with dumb crap.

You don't need to take my word at anything.

I'M REPEATING WHAT OTHER MARTH MAINS AND TINK MAINS THEMSELVES HAVE SAID.

Reading comprehension FTW.

This match hasn't changed since the early metagame.

Tink and Marth are straight forward characters.

And in any match-up you either have the tools to have the advantage or you don't.

Marth does.

 

[Albert.]

LOL at Almostlegendary

and EL's pissed off ness

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

So if you know then why did you make that earlier comment. Do you like having people doubt your intelligence or not taking you seriously?

Anyway, it's not hard to know what goes on in a match-up. Just don't over complicate things with dumb crap.

You don't need to take my word at anything.

I'M REPEATING WHAT OTHER MARTH MAINS AND TINK MAINS THEMSELVES HAVE SAID.

Reading comprehension FTW.

This match hasn't changed since the early metagame.

Tink are Marth are straight forward characters.

And in any match-up you either have the tools to have the advantage or you don't.

Marth does.

So how come you completly ignored want santi said? Same goes with junk.

I still feel that being in the TL's face puts a lot of pressure on them.
Sure Marth might still take away the same number of options as he would at tipper range.

But why not be closed in where you still have options and the TL has less options then he would at tipper range?

Your a lot safer than you would be at tipper range where our zair is more effective.
And all our projectiles can be spaced.

TL is a lot more in danger close to Marth then Marth is in danger being close to TL.

hmm all i can say is i thought i was supposed to be at tipper range

so i do that vs santi

and i get z-air combos up the *** (it feels like it limits me to only tip f-air)

then i try to stay outside the z-air range

and i get projectiles up the ***

next time im just going to be close

lol toon link might have a worse boxing game than marth

So what Tlink mains are you repeating?

 

[Emblem Lord]

You are nitpicking over proximity.

Whether Marth is right in TL's face or at tipper range the fact that Marth limits TL's options when he is close is the one thing that everyone agrees on and I did not argue with them about this because...wait..oh yes...I was the first one to ever come to that conclusion on the Marth boards and post about it.

I tire of this.

You have no evidence. You have no argument. You bore me.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

You are nitpicking over proximity.

Whether Marth is right in TL's face or at tipper range the fact that Marth limits TL's options when he is close is the one thing that everyone agrees on and I did not argue with them about this because...wait..oh yes...I was the first one to ever come to that conclusion on the Marth boards and post about it.

I tire of this.

You have no evidence. You have no argument. You bore me.

........whatever you say man.

 

[phi1ny3]

lol this thread tangent might almost go under my sig as "Fail #2".

 

[Spade1]

hmmm...

not only did a random bump lead to 4 pages of discussion to back where we started, almost didn't even let out his rage in this process.

double fail in my books. tis a sad day.

 

[Santi]

*yawn*
Just woke up from a nice little nap.

I agree this matchup/characters are pretty straight forward.

*gets popcorn*
*reads last page*

o.0
lol
"

You are in the Marth boards.

And you don't know who I am or how I know this stuff?

Holy ****ing ****."

My favorite piece from this thread

 

[Pierce7d]

EL, I'm thinking of playing SF4 competatively. Train me.

What's good Santi?

 

[takeurlife2]

How bout we try to address matchup issues rather than trying to sound smart in our matchup threads.

 

[Darxmarth23]

How bout we drop brawl?

 

[Remzi]

Santi, the thing is that at point blank, neither character is safe. But at tipper range, only Marth is safe. The reason I gave TL the advantage at point blank is that he has a much better spot dodge, more options and mixups, and both are excellent OoS.

 

[TheJerm]

TL is not excellent out of shield.. thats one of his downfalls. The safest thing he could do is bair out of shield.

 

[Sosuke]

Nair is also pretty good imo, Jerm. ^_^;

 

[Remzi]

At that kind of range, he is great OoS imo. Bair and nair are fantastic in that situation for example.

 

[Santi]

How about Marth just does whatever he is comfortable with because he will **** TL anyways

hehehe

 

[Sosuke]

Santi always put TL down so the other guy feels worse when he ***** them.

 

[takeurlife2]

santi just sucks, he's not even a really cool guy in real life.... [/jokes]

but really, marth isnt completely safe at tipper range. Zair has quite a few options and it out ranges your moveset. Yes, it also combos. Or at least sudo-combos.

 

[Emblem Lord]

It combos in certain situations.

If Tink is low to the ground and going towards his opponent when he Zairs then yeah it combos into pretty much anything. If he retreats with it and does it while he is rising, which is most likely how it would be done if he is trying to get away from Marth, then it really can't lead into anything guaranteed.

 

[takeurlife2]

It combos in certain situations.

If Tink is low to the ground and going towards his opponent when he Zairs then yeah it combos into pretty much anything. If he retreats with it and does it while he is rising, which is most likely how it would be done if he is trying to get away from Marth, then it really can't lead into anything guaranteed.

Do you know the frame that zair comes out on? I'll ask the TL boards if you don't.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Nah I don't. Looks pretty fast though. Probably around the same time as a jab. Around 3 frames.

 

[Radori Nighthawk]

*Oh boy...this matchup* Is a TL main* :3 *Can't stand you all*=P

First off your swordplay out-ranges ours. Well for what I've noticed your fair is REALLY annoying, it stops our bomerang and arrows. You all can just perfect shield our bomerang and arrows to get inside as well which gets REALLY is annoying. You all also have Dancing Blade the move I HATE more than other move in this game. Shield poker, too fast to sidestep and it has multiple hits not to mention versatility with your other moves AND it kills? WTF!
Glide tossing our bombs must be fun though I haven't had much of a problem with this. Your Dolphin Slash come out fast and hard and kills us around the 130 range. Ivincibility frames well? I call bull****. It's rather hard to get under you all so we can finish you with upsmash as most of you will see it coming.

Now what do we have on you all.....

Zair works wonder with us, it can be used to even grab you all. Meaning we can use our nair as kill moves. I've managed to get some nice pivot grabs on you all. Actually I wanna say I rack up on average around 50% a match using pivot grabs. <3 Bombs are a lifesaver for us. With a bomb in hand we have SOME control of the battle.

So yea with that said I definately agree with 60/40 you all. Hell maybe even 65/35. Or maybe I'm just awful.

 

[Darxmarth23]

Please don't bump this. It's gonna be like ganondorfs thread.