Oh boy, Sheik. I think most of us can agree it should stay at 60:40, right? I think maybe we could share some strategies and what not instead of saying why we lose.
My main thing with this matchup is that I refuse to die. I'm not going to let them get some air dodge read with up b or up air, I'm not gonna let them kill me off the side with f smash or bouncing fish. For myself, if I am living to like 150-170, I'm doing something right, haha.
It's important to know her kill options, and if you are dying relatively early (for sheik at least) just look at what got you killed and prevent it. Her kill options are: (tell me if I forgot something)
- bouncing fish on or off stage
- f smash (mainly at the ledge),
- up smash: Sweetspot kills early. isn't used often, just be aware. It can be used to punish air dodges
- Up air: She can do F throw Up air, Don't DI back at high percents, she can do down throw and get an air dodge read
- Back air stage spike: What I do to avoid this if I am low is do a ">" or "<" with the up b angle Onto the ledge, if that makes sense.
- Up b: They may use it on stage but it's main use is to down throw and read an air dodge with it
- I believe f throw/b throw -> bouncing fish is a potential kill option, I have low experience with that so I can't give advice on it
- There are some other ways to die like f tilt, fair, bair, down smash, at even higher percents but just be aware of how the sheik is trying to kill you
Some more things/tips:
-Air dodging against sheik 9/10 is a bad idea, don't let them scare you into air dodging, they are more than likely waiting for it.
- I try my hardest in this mu to get the lead first, and then put my patience to the test and try to keep the lead. It's tough losing 1st stock cause if they get a grab it can lead to a good amount of percent.
- A lot of the time I see myself living at high percents and finishing off sheik with an up throw kill. Up throw is a good way to kill sheik when they are at high percent and you have rage. I wouldn't only fish for that though, don't just wait for that every stock, if there's an opening do something else. If you can kill sheik earlier that's great, it will be rewarding. I've heard shifting shuriken is a good custom to have cause you have an extra kill option, I have no experience with this though.
- Needles beat shuriken, which sucks. Needles go straight through them. It basically kills the use of the projectile, you can't use fully charged either cause they can bouncing fish straight over it and hit you.
- Be aware of how they are approaching. Are they only grabbing, are they short hop fairing. You can try different things like punishing with a nair, something like that. I versed a sheik who's main approach was short hop fair and it was easy to just fade with a fair or roll or run back and nair them. If they are predictable in stuff like that, take advantage of it
- Again I think it's smart to know her kill options, and know which ways your opponent likes to kill. There's more I could say but I'll leave it at this I guess. The matchup can definitely be won, we have more kill setups/power, just is tough sometimes.
The sheiks I struggle against are the ones who play defensively, and shield and needle a lot, it's tough for me, idk if it is for anyone else.
Im curious what strategies you guys use going up against a sheik, I didn't exactly share any in particular.
Lucina
and Marth
I would assume there should be some kind of advantage to Greninja, probably like 55:45, just a guess. I don't really have anything too detailed I can say but I have some experience against them so I can share my thoughts.
Most Marths and Lucinas I have played are smarter, defensive players. They try to bait me into things, and rarely approach. If they do this I usually try to just see their patterns. For example one person got really predictable with fading back with a fair or 2 and then throwing out a neutral b assuming I'll try to quickly punish the lag, but it was easy to bait out his bait, haha. Stuff like that, I guess. I can't provide deep analysis but I mean they can't approach well and we have a projectile, lol. I try to just poke at them with shuriken and play a reacting and baiting game, most of the time at least. Sometimes they like to throw out f smashes out side b's so I would be careful for those too. Greninja can also hydro pump gimp them fairly well, but be careful of doing it too close to them and getting stage spiked by up b. That's all I got, just some thoughts, someone else can probably explain better.
I have never versed a mii swordsman a day in my life, have we talked about mii brawler though? He seems to be an up and coming character if not already. The smallest mii brawler is pretty crazy, haha.